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Squawk1111
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Posted: 11/8/2012 6:42:04 PM
I am wanting a stripped AR pistol lower and I am looking for some recommendations. I have only seen the following 2 companies that make a marked pistol lower:

MEGA
DPM Shops
BTM757
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Posted: 11/8/2012 7:13:54 PM
Why not just get a regular stripped lower and then buy a pistol buffer tube. Is it that critical to have a marked lower? If so have it engraved to say pistol.
RogueSpear2023
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Posted: 11/8/2012 9:52:36 PM
[Last Edit: 11/8/2012 9:53:05 PM by RogueSpear2023]
Agreed unless you live a one of the socialist republics the pistol lower does not need to be marked, any stripped lower will work. The only time it will have to be marked it when you get your stamp, you will have to mark your SBR lower. I say "when", because it's never ends up an "if".
Squawk1111
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Posted: 11/8/2012 10:22:49 PM
Do you just register the lower as a pistol or can I take one of my rifle length lowers and make it into a pistol?
joekizanyu
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Posted: 11/9/2012 12:01:37 AM
[Last Edit: 11/9/2012 12:04:29 AM by joekizanyu]
Originally Posted By Squawk1111:
Do you just register the lower as a pistol or can I take one of my rifle length lowers and make it into a pistol?


The lower is not "registered." The lower must have never been sold as, or previously built as a rifle. If transferring with a 4473, the lower should be marked as "frame or receiver."

ETA: the above is federal law. Do pistols need to be registered in your state?
LastRites
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Posted: 11/9/2012 7:11:55 AM
Spikes sells pistol marker lower too.

Unless required by your state being marked isn't necessary.
74novaman
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Posted: 11/9/2012 11:32:20 AM
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By Squawk1111:
Do you just register the lower as a pistol or can I take one of my rifle length lowers and make it into a pistol?


The lower is not "registered." The lower must have never been sold as, or previously built as a rifle. If transferring with a 4473, the lower should be marked as "frame or receiver."

ETA: the above is federal law. Do pistols need to be registered in your state?


Forgive the newbie question, why not just mark it as "pistol" when you fill out the 4473? What's the advantage of writing in "frame or receiver"?
joekizanyu
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Posted: 11/9/2012 11:58:36 AM
Originally Posted By 74novaman:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By Squawk1111:
Do you just register the lower as a pistol or can I take one of my rifle length lowers and make it into a pistol?


The lower is not "registered." The lower must have never been sold as, or previously built as a rifle. If transferring with a 4473, the lower should be marked as "frame or receiver."

ETA: the above is federal law. Do pistols need to be registered in your state?


Forgive the newbie question, why not just mark it as "pistol" when you fill out the 4473? What's the advantage of writing in "frame or receiver"?


It cannot be legally marked as pistol or rifle because it (at the time of sale) does not meet the definition of either. The manufacturer or seller does not know what the end product will be. This is why there is a "frame or receiver" box. Also, a person must be 21 to purchase a pistol, frame or receiver from an FFL, while only 18 to purchase a rifle.

And an FFL cannot just make the lower in to a pistol or rifle "just for purposes of the sale" unless the FFL is a Type 07 (manufacturer) rather than a Type 01 (dealer). A Type 07 costs $2250 per year, vs. $350 per year (I think) for a Type 01.
RogueSpear2023
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Posted: 11/9/2012 1:57:39 PM
[Last Edit: 11/9/2012 1:59:45 PM by RogueSpear2023]
You can not make a rifle into a pistol. You will have to buy a stripped lower. As stated it will be transferred as a frame or receiver, rather than a rifle or pistol.
GeorgeWA
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Posted: 11/9/2012 11:21:18 PM
SunDevil also makes a billet "pistol" marked lower
cmc201
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Posted: 11/12/2012 10:59:37 AM
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.
joekizanyu
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Posted: 11/12/2012 12:22:55 PM
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.
akethan
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Posted: 11/12/2012 12:25:45 PM
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.
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joekizanyu
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Posted: 11/12/2012 12:33:05 PM
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?
motoguy
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Posted: 11/12/2012 12:42:17 PM

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.

akethan
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Posted: 11/12/2012 12:49:50 PM
[Last Edit: 11/12/2012 12:50:14 PM by akethan]
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

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joekizanyu
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Posted: 11/12/2012 12:52:09 PM
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



The info I used for the above replies was taken directly from the PDF version of the 4473, of which I recently downloaded.

I have also transferred stripped receivers, and they have been marked as "receivers."

joekizanyu
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Posted: 11/12/2012 12:57:29 PM
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."
akethan
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Posted: 11/12/2012 1:04:07 PM
[Last Edit: 11/12/2012 1:12:27 PM by akethan]
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."



When was the last time you purchased a lower? Read the new form.

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joekizanyu
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Posted: 11/12/2012 1:23:13 PM
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."



When was the last time you purchased a lower? Read the new form.




Last lower was purchased 10/20/2012.

I did read the new form. That is where I got my info from.

Why would the BATFE list "frame" and "receiver" not once, but twice, if those terms were not to be used? Once on P3 in box 29, and again on P6 under "Types of firearms include:"?
akethan
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Posted: 11/12/2012 1:29:06 PM
[Last Edit: 11/12/2012 1:30:41 PM by akethan]
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."



When was the last time you purchased a lower? Read the new form.




Last lower was purchased 10/20/2012.

I did read the new form. That is where I got my info from.

Why would the BATFE list "frame" and "receiver" not once, but twice, if those terms were not to be used? Once on P3 in box 29, and again on P6 under "Types of firearms include:"?


What is your point? Lowers are receivers and they are transfered as "other" if they are neither a handgun or a longgun.

You can build either one out of a virgin lower.
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joekizanyu
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Posted: 11/12/2012 1:38:39 PM
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."



When was the last time you purchased a lower? Read the new form.




Last lower was purchased 10/20/2012.

I did read the new form. That is where I got my info from.

Why would the BATFE list "frame" and "receiver" not once, but twice, if those terms were not to be used? Once on P3 in box 29, and again on P6 under "Types of firearms include:"?


What is your point? Lowers are receivers and they are transfered as "other" if they are neither a handgun or a longgun.

You can build either one out of a virgin lower.


You can build one or the other out of a virgin lower, but one has not at the time of transfer.

The "other" is a catch-all for firearms that do not meet any of the other 6 definitions. A stripped AR-15 receiver surely does meet the definition of "receiver" does it not?

Question still not answered: why would the BATFE list receiver or frame as an option if it is not to be used?
akethan
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Posted: 11/12/2012 1:45:28 PM
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."



When was the last time you purchased a lower? Read the new form.




Last lower was purchased 10/20/2012.

I did read the new form. That is where I got my info from.

Why would the BATFE list "frame" and "receiver" not once, but twice, if those terms were not to be used? Once on P3 in box 29, and again on P6 under "Types of firearms include:"?


What is your point? Lowers are receivers and they are transfered as "other" if they are neither a handgun or a longgun.

You can build either one out of a virgin lower.


You can build one or the other out of a virgin lower, but one has not at the time of transfer.

The "other" is a catch-all for firearms that do not meet any of the other 6 definitions. A stripped AR-15 receiver surely does meet the definition of "receiver" does it not?

Question still not answered: why would the BATFE list receiver or frame as an option if it is not to be used?


?

Every stripped lower I have purchased in the last few years has been transfered as an other.

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joekizanyu
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:05:51 PM
This back-and-forth is pointless. You have stated your points, and as have I.

Rather than wasting Ar15.com's bandwidth, let"s let the hive make their own decision.
MoarBullezPrease
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Posted: 11/12/2012 10:27:03 PM
Originally Posted By Squawk1111:
Do you just register the lower as a pistol or can I take one of my rifle length lowers and make it into a pistol?


The law does say it can't have previously been built into anything else so technically making a rifle into a pistol is a no no if I recall
ToyCop
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Posted: 11/12/2012 11:03:29 PM

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
This back-and-forth is pointless. You have stated your points, and as have I.

Rather than wasting Ar15.com's bandwidth, let"s let the hive make their own decision.

Item 18 is where it is marked as other without further designation. Item 29 is where there is further clarification. Not real difficult.
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