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Posted: 11/8/2012 1:42:04 PM EST
I am wanting a stripped AR pistol lower and I am looking for some recommendations. I have only seen the following 2 companies that make a marked pistol lower:

MEGA
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Posted: 11/8/2012 2:13:54 PM EST
Why not just get a regular stripped lower and then buy a pistol buffer tube. Is it that critical to have a marked lower? If so have it engraved to say pistol.
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Posted: 11/8/2012 4:52:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/8/2012 4:53:05 PM EST by RogueSpear2023]
Agreed unless you live a one of the socialist republics the pistol lower does not need to be marked, any stripped lower will work. The only time it will have to be marked it when you get your stamp, you will have to mark your SBR lower. I say "when", because it's never ends up an "if".
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Posted: 11/8/2012 5:22:49 PM EST
Do you just register the lower as a pistol or can I take one of my rifle length lowers and make it into a pistol?
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Posted: 11/8/2012 7:01:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/8/2012 7:04:29 PM EST by joekizanyu]
Originally Posted By Squawk1111:
Do you just register the lower as a pistol or can I take one of my rifle length lowers and make it into a pistol?


The lower is not "registered." The lower must have never been sold as, or previously built as a rifle. If transferring with a 4473, the lower should be marked as "frame or receiver."

ETA: the above is federal law. Do pistols need to be registered in your state?
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Posted: 11/9/2012 2:11:55 AM EST
Spikes sells pistol marker lower too.

Unless required by your state being marked isn't necessary.
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Posted: 11/9/2012 6:32:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By Squawk1111:
Do you just register the lower as a pistol or can I take one of my rifle length lowers and make it into a pistol?


The lower is not "registered." The lower must have never been sold as, or previously built as a rifle. If transferring with a 4473, the lower should be marked as "frame or receiver."

ETA: the above is federal law. Do pistols need to be registered in your state?


Forgive the newbie question, why not just mark it as "pistol" when you fill out the 4473? What's the advantage of writing in "frame or receiver"?
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Posted: 11/9/2012 6:58:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By 74novaman:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By Squawk1111:
Do you just register the lower as a pistol or can I take one of my rifle length lowers and make it into a pistol?


The lower is not "registered." The lower must have never been sold as, or previously built as a rifle. If transferring with a 4473, the lower should be marked as "frame or receiver."

ETA: the above is federal law. Do pistols need to be registered in your state?


Forgive the newbie question, why not just mark it as "pistol" when you fill out the 4473? What's the advantage of writing in "frame or receiver"?


It cannot be legally marked as pistol or rifle because it (at the time of sale) does not meet the definition of either. The manufacturer or seller does not know what the end product will be. This is why there is a "frame or receiver" box. Also, a person must be 21 to purchase a pistol, frame or receiver from an FFL, while only 18 to purchase a rifle.

And an FFL cannot just make the lower in to a pistol or rifle "just for purposes of the sale" unless the FFL is a Type 07 (manufacturer) rather than a Type 01 (dealer). A Type 07 costs $2250 per year, vs. $350 per year (I think) for a Type 01.
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Posted: 11/9/2012 8:57:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/9/2012 8:59:45 AM EST by RogueSpear2023]
You can not make a rifle into a pistol. You will have to buy a stripped lower. As stated it will be transferred as a frame or receiver, rather than a rifle or pistol.
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Posted: 11/9/2012 6:21:18 PM EST
SunDevil also makes a billet "pistol" marked lower
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Posted: 11/12/2012 5:59:37 AM EST
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 7:22:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 7:25:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 7:33:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?
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Posted: 11/12/2012 7:42:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.

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Posted: 11/12/2012 7:49:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2012 7:50:14 AM EST by akethan]
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

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Posted: 11/12/2012 7:52:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



The info I used for the above replies was taken directly from the PDF version of the 4473, of which I recently downloaded.

I have also transferred stripped receivers, and they have been marked as "receivers."

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Posted: 11/12/2012 7:57:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."
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Posted: 11/12/2012 8:04:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2012 8:12:27 AM EST by akethan]
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."



When was the last time you purchased a lower? Read the new form.

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Posted: 11/12/2012 8:23:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."



When was the last time you purchased a lower? Read the new form.




Last lower was purchased 10/20/2012.

I did read the new form. That is where I got my info from.

Why would the BATFE list "frame" and "receiver" not once, but twice, if those terms were not to be used? Once on P3 in box 29, and again on P6 under "Types of firearms include:"?
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Posted: 11/12/2012 8:29:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2012 8:30:41 AM EST by akethan]
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."



When was the last time you purchased a lower? Read the new form.




Last lower was purchased 10/20/2012.

I did read the new form. That is where I got my info from.

Why would the BATFE list "frame" and "receiver" not once, but twice, if those terms were not to be used? Once on P3 in box 29, and again on P6 under "Types of firearms include:"?


What is your point? Lowers are receivers and they are transfered as "other" if they are neither a handgun or a longgun.

You can build either one out of a virgin lower.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 8:38:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."



When was the last time you purchased a lower? Read the new form.




Last lower was purchased 10/20/2012.

I did read the new form. That is where I got my info from.

Why would the BATFE list "frame" and "receiver" not once, but twice, if those terms were not to be used? Once on P3 in box 29, and again on P6 under "Types of firearms include:"?


What is your point? Lowers are receivers and they are transfered as "other" if they are neither a handgun or a longgun.

You can build either one out of a virgin lower.


You can build one or the other out of a virgin lower, but one has not at the time of transfer.

The "other" is a catch-all for firearms that do not meet any of the other 6 definitions. A stripped AR-15 receiver surely does meet the definition of "receiver" does it not?

Question still not answered: why would the BATFE list receiver or frame as an option if it is not to be used?
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Posted: 11/12/2012 8:45:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."



When was the last time you purchased a lower? Read the new form.




Last lower was purchased 10/20/2012.

I did read the new form. That is where I got my info from.

Why would the BATFE list "frame" and "receiver" not once, but twice, if those terms were not to be used? Once on P3 in box 29, and again on P6 under "Types of firearms include:"?


What is your point? Lowers are receivers and they are transfered as "other" if they are neither a handgun or a longgun.

You can build either one out of a virgin lower.


You can build one or the other out of a virgin lower, but one has not at the time of transfer.

The "other" is a catch-all for firearms that do not meet any of the other 6 definitions. A stripped AR-15 receiver surely does meet the definition of "receiver" does it not?

Question still not answered: why would the BATFE list receiver or frame as an option if it is not to be used?


?

Every stripped lower I have purchased in the last few years has been transfered as an other.

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Posted: 11/12/2012 9:05:51 AM EST
This back-and-forth is pointless. You have stated your points, and as have I.

Rather than wasting Ar15.com's bandwidth, let"s let the hive make their own decision.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 5:27:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Squawk1111:
Do you just register the lower as a pistol or can I take one of my rifle length lowers and make it into a pistol?


The law does say it can't have previously been built into anything else so technically making a rifle into a pistol is a no no if I recall
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Posted: 11/12/2012 6:03:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
This back-and-forth is pointless. You have stated your points, and as have I.

Rather than wasting Ar15.com's bandwidth, let"s let the hive make their own decision.

Item 18 is where it is marked as other without further designation. Item 29 is where there is further clarification. Not real difficult.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 10:57:12 AM EST
Thank you, TC!
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Posted: 11/14/2012 4:01:34 PM EST
Run with scissors!!!!
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Posted: 11/14/2012 4:05:17 PM EST
Run with scissors!!!!
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Posted: 11/16/2012 9:39:33 AM EST
^+1. I would just get a stripped lower receiver and call it good. My local gun shop had del-ton blemished lowers for 69.99 so I pu 5 and called it a day.
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Posted: 11/16/2012 10:31:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By coctailer:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By cmc201:
Pretty sure it transfers as "Other". Please don't confuse people with the incorrect nomenclature.


Per ATF form 4473, acceptable types of firearms for question 29 are: pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame and other. Per the forms' instructions, "other" is for NFA firearms or other oddities like pistol grip-only shotguns.




Lowers are transfered as "other" they are neither longgun or handgun.


Then why is there a "frame" and "receiver" option?

Don't know, but I've bought about a dozen stripped lowers, and "other" was the selection used by the FFL.



On the new form, frame and receiver is "other"



http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf



"Other" is for odd firearms such as pistol grip-only shotguns, the Franklin Armory XO-26 and NFA firearms.

I ask again, why is there an option for "frame" or "receiver."



When was the last time you purchased a lower? Read the new form.




Last lower was purchased 10/20/2012.

I did read the new form. That is where I got my info from.

Why would the BATFE list "frame" and "receiver" not once, but twice, if those terms were not to be used? Once on P3 in box 29, and again on P6 under "Types of firearms include:"?


What is your point? Lowers are receivers and they are transfered as "other" if they are neither a handgun or a longgun.

You can build either one out of a virgin lower.


You can build one or the other out of a virgin lower, but one has not at the time of transfer.

The "other" is a catch-all for firearms that do not meet any of the other 6 definitions. A stripped AR-15 receiver surely does meet the definition of "receiver" does it not?

Question still not answered: why would the BATFE list receiver or frame as an option if it is not to be used?


Frame or Receiver is not listed as an option.

You are looking at an old form probably.

Stripped lowers transfer as "Other" including Frame or Receiver.

The 3 options are:
1: handgun
2- long gun
3- other


Nope, looking at april 2012 revision.

Section 18 only allowed choices handgun, long gun or other.

Section 29 allows pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, frame, receiver and other. This is the section I was referring to.

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Posted: 11/16/2012 3:49:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By coctailer:

Frame or Receiver is not listed as an option.

You are looking at an old form probably.

Stripped lowers transfer as "Other" including Frame or Receiver.

The 3 options are:
1: handgun
2- long gun
3- other


Nope, looking at april 2012 revision.

Section 18 only allowed choices handgun, long gun or other.

Section 29 allows pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, frame, receiver and other. This is the section I was referring to.


Jesus F&**ing Christ on a pogo stick dude look at the damn form! block 18 is titled "Type of firearm(s) to be transferred." It lists only 3, handgun, long gun or other. Period.
Receivers or frames transfer as "other" just as the damn form indicates. Block 29 is for a description of the firearm transferred in block 18.

So your just wrong, stop digging the hole deeper. Retreat, lick your wounds and accept the fact.
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Posted: 11/16/2012 4:45:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Originally Posted By coctailer:

Frame or Receiver is not listed as an option.

You are looking at an old form probably.

Stripped lowers transfer as "Other" including Frame or Receiver.

The 3 options are:
1: handgun
2- long gun
3- other


Nope, looking at april 2012 revision.

Section 18 only allowed choices handgun, long gun or other.

Section 29 allows pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, frame, receiver and other. This is the section I was referring to.


Jesus F&**ing Christ on a pogo stick dude look at the damn form! block 18 is titled "Type of firearm(s) to be transferred." It lists only 3, handgun, long gun or other. Period.
Receivers or frames transfer as "other" just as the damn form indicates. Block 29 is for a description of the firearm transferred in block 18.

So your just wrong, stop digging the hole deeper. Retreat, lick your wounds and accept the fact.


I think you may have mis-interpreted my response, and after re-reading my response, I can see why.

Let me clarify. My response in red was in response to the comment in green. Reading it the way I posted does not make this clear and does sound snarky and open to mis-interpretation. Not my intention.

As for the clarification between section 18 and 29, all of my comments regarding this thread have been referring to section 29. I referred to section 29 in an earlier post. I thought this was clear. Sorry if it was not.
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Posted: 11/17/2012 2:19:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2012 7:58:50 PM EST by iNeXile556]

Originally Posted By joekizanyu:

I think you may have mis-interpreted my response, and after re-reading my response, I can see why.

Let me clarify. My response in red was in response to the comment in green. Reading it the way I posted does not make this clear and does sound snarky and open to mis-interpretation. Not my intention.

As for the clarification between section 18 and 29, all of my comments regarding this thread have been referring to section 29. I referred to section 29 in an earlier post. I thought this was clear. Sorry if it was not.

ActuallyI was commenting on the entire quote tree discussion which starts with how the lower is transferred. You kept bringing up the questions of why pistol, receiver and such is listed as choices is where you were misguiding and confusing people. Firearms are only transferred as as handguns, long guns or other in block 18. Block 29 does not list the type of firearm being transferred, it describes the type firearm being transferred. As per the instructions " Question(s) 26,27,28,29 and 30, Firearm(s) Description."

ATF: "What type of firearm is being transferred?"
Dealer:"Other"
ATF: "What type of other?"
Dealer: "Receiver"


ATF: "What type of firearm is being transferred?"
Dealer:"Handgun"
ATF: "What type of handgun?"
Dealer: "Revolver"

ATF: "What type of firearm is being transferred?"
Dealer:"Handgun"
ATF: "What type of handgun?"
Dealer: "Pistol"

ATF: "What type of firearm is being transferred?"
Dealer:"Long gun"
ATF: "What type of Long gun?"
Dealer: "Shotgun"

ATF: "What type of firearm is being transferred?"
Dealer:"Long gun"
ATF: "What type of Long gun?"
Dealer: "Rifle"


Now these are not real conversations mind you, just for demonstration. Truth be known when a FFL calls in for the check the only information given about the firearm is the type listed in block 18, Handgun, Long Gun or Other.

Now go enjoy the weekend and drop all this sillyness.



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