 Precision308 
Member
Joined: Sep 2007  IN, USA
 Posts: 304 Feedback: 0% (0) |
Posted: 7/31/2012 11:10:30 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT thanks |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 4:58:32 AM
Long as the lower has never been built as a rifle you are good to go. Most lowers now say "multi" meaning you build whatever you want.
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Posted: 8/1/2012 8:14:09 AM
Originally Posted By AZBADBOY:
Long as the lower has never been built as a rifle you are good to go. Most lowers now say "multi" meaning you build whatever you want. That is not completely accurate. Before the last ATF change, decision, ruling, or whatever someone wants to call it, stripped lowers were transfered as rifle OR pistol. If you have one of those lowers that were transfered as a "rifle", then it should not be built into a pistol. If you are not sure, I would get a new one and be sure it is transferred as "other" which is how they SHOULD be transfered. Pretty much when I buy a new lower, I will first build it up as a pistol so I alwayse have the option. And as for the "multi" marking. That has only to do with the caliber and has ZERO legal bearing on ANYTHING. It is irrelevant to if the lower is a rifle or pistol. |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 10:47:27 AM
Ok so you are saying if i purchase a new stripped lower and ask the dealer to transfer it as other then i can build it into a rifle or a pistol? thanks for the input
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Posted: 8/1/2012 12:19:03 PM
[Last Edit: 8/1/2012 12:21:33 PM by MasterSergeantA]
If you buy a stripped lower through a dealer, it is SUPPOSED to be transferred as a "receiver" on the 4473 (section D, block 29).
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf Since most of them come directly from a manufacturer (maybe through a distributor depending on company policy) they will never have been built into either a pistol or a rifle. If you buy one from an individual, you are wagering that it was not orginally a rifle. Given that you can find them for $100 new, I would avoid the extra concern. You build the pistol; if you want to have the lower engraved with "pistol", you can do that. Some folks will tell you to build it and then take a photo of it on a current newspaper/magazine to establish a 'time stamp'. Once built as a pistol, you can convert it to a rifle and then back to pistol configuration if you like. There are some specific steps involved, but it is that simple. |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 12:43:26 PM
Any virgin lower can be build into a pistol or a rifle notwithstanding how it was originally listed on a 4473.
The problem arises if asked to prove that it started out as a stripped lower. It might be a little tricky to explain why your stripped lower was transfered as a rifle on an older 4473. Since lowers are cheap, I agree with the concept of buying one now on the new 4473 and eliminating any future question, but I wear tin foil hats on Wednesdays. If ATF is asking you to prove that your pistol started as a virgin lower you have much bigger problems than a check mark on a 4473.. Just Sayin! |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 2:18:21 PM
Originally Posted By TitleII:
Any virgin lower can be build into a pistol or a rifle notwithstanding how it was originally listed on a 4473. The problem arises if asked to prove that it started out as a stripped lower. It might be a little tricky to explain why your stripped lower was transfered as a rifle on an older 4473. Since lowers are cheap, I agree with the concept of buying one now on the new 4473 and eliminating any future question, but I wear tin foil hats on Wednesdays. If ATF is asking you to prove that your pistol started as a virgin lower you have much bigger problems than a check mark on a 4473.. Just Sayin! ^ ^ ^ That is a perfectly reasonable oulook that most would probably agree with. |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 3:02:12 PM
[Last Edit: 8/1/2012 3:03:30 PM by USMC_DS1]
Originally Posted By MasterSergeantA:
If you buy a stripped lower through a dealer, it is SUPPOSED to be transferred as a "receiver" on the 4473 (section D, block 29). http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf Since most of them come directly from a manufacturer (maybe through a distributor depending on company policy) they will never have been built into either a pistol or a rifle. If you buy one from an individual, you are wagering that it was not orginally a rifle. Given that you can find them for $100 new, I would avoid the extra concern. You build the pistol; if you want to have the lower engraved with "pistol", you can do that. Some folks will tell you to build it and then take a photo of it on a current newspaper/magazine to establish a 'time stamp'. Once built as a pistol, you can convert it to a rifle and then back to pistol configuration if you like. There are some specific steps involved, but it is that simple. I'm building my 1st pistol as well and this insight is very helpful... thx. BTW, I can confirm that in the case of my FFL he has been listing "receiver" on the 4473 with all of my lowers so may be a common practice today... I always check though to make sure that's the case. |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 8:33:13 PM
One more way to "prove" the pistol lower started life as a pistol you built is to contact the manufacturer with the serial number, and ask them to verify it was shipped to the distributor as a stripped receiver. Email works wonders for that, as it provides a paper trail. There is the possibility a distributor built the lower into a rifle but that can be figured out also.
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Posted: 8/6/2012 2:44:23 PM
does the reg. type matter in Florida? I recently bought a used, private party pistol and would hate to do something wrong.
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Posted: 8/6/2012 3:19:46 PM
Originally Posted By davisn4:
does the reg. type matter in Florida? I recently bought a used, private party pistol and would hate to do something wrong. Yes. |
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Banditman
Member
Team Member
Joined: May 2007 FL, USA
Posts: 10790 Feedback: 100% (3) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/6/2012 6:16:33 PM
Originally Posted By cbr954: Originally Posted By AZBADBOY: Long as the lower has never been built as a rifle you are good to go. Most lowers now say "multi" meaning you build whatever you want. That is not completely accurate. Before the last ATF change, decision, ruling, or whatever someone wants to call it, stripped lowers were transfered as rifle OR pistol. If you have one of those lowers that were transfered as a "rifle", then it should not be built into a pistol. If you are not sure, I would get a new one and be sure it is transferred as "other" which is how they SHOULD be transfered. Pretty much when I buy a new lower, I will first build it up as a pistol so I alwayse have the option. And as for the "multi" marking. That has only to do with the caliber and has ZERO legal bearing on ANYTHING. It is irrelevant to if the lower is a rifle or pistol. They can also be listed as "other" and be built into a pistol. |
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Posted: 8/6/2012 8:05:57 PM
[Last Edit: 8/6/2012 8:19:08 PM by RacingJake]
If it's just a lower receiver it should be marked as "Other" cause the FFL dealer doesn't know what the firearm will become once it leaves his shop.
My pistol lower that I bought even said Pistol Lower on the invoice and receipt from the manufacturer but the FFL dealer had to mark it as "Other" cause it wasn't barreled. Now if it's barreled Rifle it should be checked off as a Rifle, then it's a Rifle for life. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:24:28 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 5:25:02 PM by MasterSergeantA]
Originally Posted By davisn4:
does the reg. type matter in Florida? I recently bought a used, private party pistol and would hate to do something wrong. It does but you can contact the manufacturer, as described above, to find out how it was shipped. If it was shipped as a 'receiver' (versus a 'rifle'), and it is currently configured as a pistol, you should be fine. You could even put a rifle upper on it, add a stock and then revert back to pistol configuration and still be legal. If the receiver shipped as a 'rifle', the pistol is a no-go without a tax stamp. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:39:16 PM
Originally Posted By AZBADBOY: Long as the lower has never been built as a rifle you are good to go. Most lowers now say "multi" meaning you build whatever you want. Multi means nothing. It could also say "plasma rifle in the 40 watt range" and it could still be a pistol. |
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Banditman
Member
Team Member
Joined: May 2007 FL, USA
Posts: 10802 Feedback: 100% (3) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/7/2012 6:06:27 PM
Originally Posted By MasterSergeantA: Originally Posted By davisn4: does the reg. type matter in Florida? I recently bought a used, private party pistol and would hate to do something wrong. It does but you can contact the manufacturer, as described above, to find out how it was shipped. If it was shipped as a 'receiver' (versus a 'rifle'), and it is currently configured as a pistol, you should be fine. You could even put a rifle upper on it, add a stock and then revert back to pistol configuration and still be legal. If the receiver shipped as a 'rifle', the pistol is a no-go without a tax stamp. if it left as a stripped receiver and was built into a rifle first it would not be ok to be a pistol. But who would know? If it was built into a rifle and was transferred through an FFL there would be a record of it being a rifle. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:07:22 PM
That is correct...no way to know if it was a rifle at some point. So long as it shipped as a 'receiver' and he bought it in pistol configuration, there should be no problem. The Feds would have to have quite an axe to grind against you to try to prove that 'somebody' had built it into a rifle sometime in the past.
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Posted: 8/7/2012 9:29:53 PM
Originally Posted By MasterSergeantA:
Originally Posted By davisn4:
does the reg. type matter in Florida? I recently bought a used, private party pistol and would hate to do something wrong. It does but you can contact the manufacturer, as described above, to find out how it was shipped. If it was shipped as a 'receiver' (versus a 'rifle'), and it is currently configured as a pistol, you should be fine. You could even put a rifle upper on it, add a stock and then revert back to pistol configuration and still be legal. If the receiver shipped as a 'rifle', the pistol is a no-go without a tax stamp. To be clear: This information quoted above in BOLD is wrong. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 11:04:20 PM
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
Originally Posted By MasterSergeantA:
Originally Posted By davisn4:
does the reg. type matter in Florida? I recently bought a used, private party pistol and would hate to do something wrong. It does but you can contact the manufacturer, as described above, to find out how it was shipped. If it was shipped as a 'receiver' (versus a 'rifle'), and it is currently configured as a pistol, you should be fine. You could even put a rifle upper on it, add a stock and then revert back to pistol configuration and still be legal. If the receiver shipped as a 'rifle', the pistol is a no-go without a tax stamp. To be clear: This information quoted above in BOLD is wrong. Just to be clear, no it is not wrong. 
http://blog.princelaw.com/2011/08/02/batfe-ruling-2011-4-pistol-to-a-rifle-and-back-to-a-pistol/ |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 11:31:43 PM
Originally Posted By cbr954:
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
Originally Posted By MasterSergeantA:
Originally Posted By davisn4:
does the reg. type matter in Florida? I recently bought a used, private party pistol and would hate to do something wrong. It does but you can contact the manufacturer, as described above, to find out how it was shipped. If it was shipped as a 'receiver' (versus a 'rifle'), and it is currently configured as a pistol, you should be fine. You could even put a rifle upper on it, add a stock and then revert back to pistol configuration and still be legal. If the receiver shipped as a 'rifle', the pistol is a no-go without a tax stamp. To be clear: This information quoted above in BOLD is wrong. Just to be clear, no it is not wrong.
http://blog.princelaw.com/2011/08/02/batfe-ruling-2011-4-pistol-to-a-rifle-and-back-to-a-pistol/ Link is not working, but if I am wrong that is good to know, |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 11:39:35 PM
Originally Posted By Dferg10: Originally Posted By cbr954: Originally Posted By Dferg10: Originally Posted By MasterSergeantA: Originally Posted By davisn4: does the reg. type matter in Florida? I recently bought a used, private party pistol and would hate to do something wrong. It does but you can contact the manufacturer, as described above, to find out how it was shipped. If it was shipped as a 'receiver' (versus a 'rifle'), and it is currently configured as a pistol, you should be fine. You could even put a rifle upper on it, add a stock and then revert back to pistol configuration and still be legal. If the receiver shipped as a 'rifle', the pistol is a no-go without a tax stamp. To be clear: This information quoted above in BOLD is wrong. Just to be clear, no it is not wrong. http://blog.princelaw.com/2011/08/02/batfe-ruling-2011-4-pistol-to-a-rifle-and-back-to-a-pistol/ Link is not working, but if I am wrong that is good to know, Most of what is posted on that blog is wrong, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. This is one of those times Here is the official source: http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:08:08 AM
That's odd...
Can't edit the bad link from my phone. These are good. http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2011/08/atf-rulingrifles-configured-fr.html http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 10:47:28 PM
Ok ive read the links but it still does not really clarify as far as i can tell what i can do with a stripped lower. Can i make a stripped lower into a pistol. I have 9 lowers so if i want a rifle ill just build another. this pistol will never be converted to anything else.
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