Its 12:20 AM on SEPT 13.

I just had to build my first, but not last AR15 pistol!!

(yes its legally registered as a pistol!)

Here are some pictures to start the Thread Rolling... I wanna see everyone's new Toys!

-Jason

ATF View on making an AR15 Pistol from a Virgin Receiver. (page1 post by labrat454)

www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter7.txt

Problems with M1S buffer system. (Pages 6-8)





edited (dont mind the fingerprints, I was too much in a hurry to see it built to clean it)
edited #2 (new pictures on Page 2)













Update: I'm trying a different aproach to the buffer system.

Gorgeous! What a great looking AR you have there!

what kind of optics are going to be used?

stag-master pistol w/ M-6

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA: Man  that is a pretty sight. A new built AR pistol. Probably the first Mega Pistol in History 10 years is a long time to wait, but it is a beautiful sunset!

I had to wait along time... and make alot of phone calls, but I think it was worth it in the end!!

I think I will put my Carry Handle on it, or maybe a Holo-Sight of some kind...

I would really like to see everyone else's new AR15 Pistols too!!

-Jason

Getting ready to deploy the winter trigger guard?

I was thinking about building an AR15 pistol in some heavy caliber for deer hunting.  Our hunting laws would mandate that it not be semiauto so no gas port, just straight pull.

Then I remembered that I am not 21, so I could not have a lower transfered to me as a pistol.  


Strange how it is the same part, but what the ffl puts on the sheet would make it illegal.

Noner:

Nice pic, but where's your bolt catch?

Originally Posted By Shooter521: Noner: Nice pic, but where's your bolt catch?

I knew someone would notice.... and the trigger guard is also not latched into place yet..

besides that... I'm done.

I didnt want to pound the Roll Pin in at 12:00 and wake the rest of the house...

I'll get it done when I get home from work.

-Jason

Originally Posted By Noner: Its 12:20 AM on SEPT 13. I just had to build my first, but not last AR15 pistol!! (yes its legally registered as a pistol!) Here are some pictures to start the Thread Rolling... I wanna see everyone's new Toys! -Jason edited (dont mind the fingerprints, I was too much in a hurry to see it built to clean it)

Is all I have to do it have one of the lowers I buy transfered to me as a pistol?  Thanks

tagged

can we attach forward pistol grips to the front of pistols now?

Originally Posted By jar3ds: can we attach forward pistol grips to the front of pistols now?

No. Forward pistol grip = A.O.W.

Is there a FAQ for AR15 Pistols?????

Barrel length, etc ?

or is the veritcal grip the only thing to worry about now ?

tagged

Pistols have to be registered at the factory as "pistols" in their books, then sold to dealers as "pistols" then sold to the public and registered as "pistols"..

nope, no forward handgrips or stocks on these guns...

-Jason

I'll bet the muzzle blast on that thing is a bitch

Here is the ATF view on making an AR pistol

www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter7.txt

October 1, 1992


Firearms Technical Branch
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
650 Mass. Ave., NW
Washington, DC  20226

Dear Sirs:

The Greensboro, NC BATF Compliance Office suggested that I write to
you for information on the following point.

I am interested on whether it is possible to have a commercially
manufactured rifle receiver changed to be legally considered to be a handgun
receiver, and how this can be done.  The Compliance Office said that this
might be possible via a "Letter of Determination", but advised me to write
to you about the criteria and procedures.

For example, if a person has a rifle receiver and wishes to have it
built into a rifle-caliber handgun suitable for steel silhouette target
shooting, comparable to the bolt action Remington XP-100 handgun.  I
understand that the serial number of this receiver is recorded as being for a
rifle.  Could this person have this receiver's serial number considered to be
a handgun receiver?  If so, what procedures and paperwork would be
necessary.

Sincerely,

----------------------------------------------------------------------

                       Oct 29 1992
Dear Mr. XXXXX:

This refers to your letter of October 1, 1992, in which you inquire
about the legality of manufacturing a handgun which utilizes a rifle
type receiver.

26 U.S.C. Chapter 53 # 5845(a)(4), the National Firearms Act (NFA),
defines the term "firearm" to include a weapon made from a rifle if
such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches
or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.

Utilizing the receiver of an existing rifle for the purposes of
manufacturing a handgun would constitute the making of a firearm as
defined above.  Individuals desiring to make such a firearm must first
submit an ATF Form 1, Application To Make And Register a Firearm and
pay the applicable $200 making tax.

If an individual were to obtain a rifle type receiver that had not
previously been utilized in the assembly of a rifle, a handgun could be
made and not be subject to the provisions of the NFA.  Verification
must be obtained from the manufacturer of the receiver to establish
its authenticity.  

We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry.  If we may
be of any further assistance, please contact us.

     Sincerely your,
     (signed)
     Edward M. Owen, Jr.
     Chief, Firearms Technology Branch

Those are nice pics!  I'd love to build an AR pistol, I have a brand new DPMS lower sitting around waiting to be built.

But how do these kit's work?  I was always under the impression that the OA-93 or whatever was the only one that functioned reliably.

NEED INPUT.

Originally Posted By nationwide: Those are nice pics!  I'd love to build an AR pistol, I have a brand new DPMS lower sitting around waiting to be built. But how do these kit's work?  I was always under the impression that the OA-93 or whatever was the only one that functioned reliably. NEED INPUT.

I'd reccomend selling your DPMS lower, and buying a new lower that has been registered as a pistol..

I'll post picts and give a range report this weekend..

keep checking back!

-Jason

Not trying to piss in anyone's pool, I just need clarification.  I understand that adding a forward pistol grip to this gun makes it an AOW.  Does adding a regular forend also make it an AOW?  If so, doesn't Jason's admittedly small forend on his Mega create an AOW?  What about jmz5's setup?

sure no problem!

ok, the ATF considers a "second" pistol grip to be an AOW. a forend grip on the upper is not considered to be a second pistol grip.

Check out the Pre-ban OLY OA-93's

-Jason

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-: Not trying to piss in anyone's pool, I just need clarification.  I understand that adding a forward pistol grip to this gun makes it an AOW.  Does adding a regular forend also make it an AOW?  If so, doesn't Jason's admittedly small forend on his Mega create an AOW?  What about jmz5's setup?

Just plain forearms are no longer banned, but they were about 24 hours ago.

tagged

Originally Posted By Corporal_Chaos: Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-: Not trying to piss in anyone's pool, I just need clarification.  I understand that adding a forward pistol grip to this gun makes it an AOW.  Does adding a regular forend also make it an AOW?  If so, doesn't Jason's admittedly small forend on his Mega create an AOW?  What about jmz5's setup? Just plain forearms are no longer banned, but they were about 24 hours ago.

Reeeeeallly... muhahahaha...

muhahahahahaa...


MUHAHAHAHAHAHAA...


MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I don't see many pics here....but then again I'm not contributing either...I work away from home...however when I get home and build up that kit I ordered...I'll be posting a pic

If an individual were to obtain a rifle type receiver that had not previously been utilized in the assembly of a rifle, a handgun could be made and not be subject to the provisions of the NFA. Verification must be obtained from the manufacturer of the receiver to establish its authenticity.

I dont see anyting about registration. Verification of its virginity. Period.

Noner:  Damit, I hate it when I see pics like that  You just make people like us have to spend money to make something like you have done....haha.  But really.....that is a REALLY nice pistol.  I'm going to be looking into getting the same setup.  Looks like you used a Mega lower recevier ???  Did they give you any problems about shipping the lower out as a pistol?  

Once again nice gun.  Now I just have to decide if I want your AR pistol as my computer background or my current picture of Jessica Simpson

Justin

I'm the new guy, i guess, so bear with me. Is anyone going to be or currently making the pistol lowers? Thanks for the help. My 1st AR is going to be on the way soon. A Colt, of course.

IN Pennsylvania, you dont have to get the lower shipped as a pistol, all lowers  are considered pistols in PA until you build them.

Originally Posted By jmz5: IN Pennsylvania, you dont have to get the lower shipped as a pistol, all lowers  are considered pistols in PA until you build them.

Can you QUOTE this from law? I did not know the ATF enforced the laws differently here in the Keystone state...

I know this will sound strange and non practical but...

I would love to see someone buils a target pistol heavy stainless barrel, PSG1 style grip, harris bipod, and a nice leupold...

is that wierd?

Originally Posted By Mugzilla: Originally Posted By jmz5: IN Pennsylvania, you dont have to get the lower shipped as a pistol, all lowers  are considered pistols in PA until you build them. Can you QUOTE this from law? I did not know the ATF enforced the laws differently here in the Keystone state...

cant quote from law, but when i get them from my ffl i have to fill out the pistol pappers also, even the ones im building into a rifle.

I am actively looking for a pistol lower.  Does anyone have a lead on where I can get one?  

Originally Posted By DigDug: Correct me if I am wrong, but any stripped lower that has not been assembled into a rifle can be a pistol lower.  When the FFL is filling out the paperwork, have him fill it out for a pistol instead of a rifle.

I'm under the understanding that it has to be booked as a pistol by the mfg.

Originally Posted By hoosierdaddy: Originally Posted By DigDug: Correct me if I am wrong, but any stripped lower that has not been assembled into a rifle can be a pistol lower.  When the FFL is filling out the paperwork, have him fill it out for a pistol instead of a rifle. I'm under the understanding that it has to be booked as a pistol by the mfg.

I spoke with the ATF about this, ( just call the firearms branch to confirm, some local offices dont deal with these types of laws, so they dont know)

I am under the impression from MANY people and the ATF that the lower has to be logged as a PISTOL reciever from the factory and sold to dealers that will register them to customers as PISTOLS.

Once registered as pistols, they can NEVER have a stock or anything that resembles a stock on them... (touchy subject with the ATF) or they will call it an SBR.

-Jason

Originally Posted By Noner: Once registered as pistols, they can NEVER have a stock or anything that resembles a stock on them... (touchy subject with the ATF) or they will call it an SBR. -Jason

Feel free to call the ATF on this, but as long as you put a barrel longer than 16" on your pistol lower, you can add a stock, then switch back and forth between the "no-stock" pistol config, and the long barrel and stock rifle config.  This was all settled in the lawsuit that Thompson Center filed and won.

Originally Posted By DavidC: Originally Posted By Noner: Once registered as pistols, they can NEVER have a stock or anything that resembles a stock on them... (touchy subject with the ATF) or they will call it an SBR. -Jason Feel free to call the ATF on this, but as long as you put a barrel longer than 16" on your pistol lower, you can add a stock, then switch back and forth between the "no-stock" pistol config, and the long barrel and stock rifle config.  This was all settled in the lawsuit that Thompson Center filed and won.

true, but with a barrel that is 16" or more, it wont be an SBR.

"Once a rifle, NEVER a pistol." (because you'll have an SBR) even if you take the stock off.

You cant do what you said with a registered RIFLE lower. but you can with a PISTOL lower.


-Jason

Sweet.

Since you declare you are in WA, I take it you filled out the state pistol form too?  

I contacted (forgot name) about a Mega lower for a pistol and I was told they were all "rifles", even the stripped ones.  But this was before I confirmed from a manufactuer that all that was required was a stripped "virgin" lower to build a pistol.  And others who built pistols said all that was required was a stripped "virgin" lower.  Mine was papered on the 4473 as pistol (stripped) and the state pistol registration form (stripped).

Here is mine, sorry for the quality issue..... Birthday: Sept 13, 2004 Time: 12:05pm

Stag Arms Lower
Model 1 Kit


(if the image is an "X", try this Link to the pic)



I view this AR pistol as I would a "standard" pistol (ie Glock, 1911).  And they sell carbine kits for the Glock and 1911 both!  So as long as the "short barrel" is NOT on the pistol at the SAME time as the stock, one is safe.  Some instructions for converting over a 1911 stated to convert: Install 16" barrel BEFORE attatching stock.  To return to pistol: REMOVE stock before changing barrel.

Do I plan to switch this back and forth?  In practicality, prob. not.... but I have the option.

Oh, by the way, I'm also from WA.... East side.....

Edit-  I'm guessing that a lot of pistols were "assembled" on Sept 13.... if not that day, this week will have some a few.

My next upper for this will be a 9mm.  I nearly have all I need for that build..... extra 16" barrel (needs to be cut down), bolt, FFT.... just need upper rec.[

I never really like the pistols, just based on the looks (didn't look like i could wield it properly)


Then I realized the ban means you can have a handguard/grip up front...

I am now intrigued!

What wonderful looking examples

- BG

Originally Posted By Kaliburz: Sweet. Since you declare you are in WA, I take it you filled out the state pistol form too?   I contacted (forgot name) about a Mega lower for a pistol and I was told they were all "rifles", even the stripped ones.  But this was before I confirmed from a manufactuer that all that was required was a stripped "virgin" lower to build a pistol.  And others who built pistols said all that was required was a stripped "virgin" lower.  Mine was papered on the 4473 as pistol (stripped) and the state pistol registration form (stripped). Here is mine, sorry for the quality issue..... Birthday: Sept 13, 2004 Time: 12:05pm Stag Arms Lower Model 1 Kit us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/c661b06/bc/7755/__sr_/8a44.jpg?phDP9RBB3eyTg87s (if the image is an "X", try this Link to the pic) I view this AR pistol as I would a "standard" pistol (ie Glock, 1911).  And they sell carbine kits for the Glock and 1911 both!  So as long as the "short barrel" is NOT on the pistol at the SAME time as the stock, one is safe.  Some instructions for converting over a 1911 stated to convert: Install 16" barrel BEFORE attatching stock.  To return to pistol: REMOVE stock before changing barrel. Do I plan to switch this back and forth?  In practicality, prob. not.... but I have the option. Oh, by the way, I'm also from WA.... East side..... Edit-  I'm guessing that a lot of pistols were "assembled" on Sept 13.... if not that day, this week will have some a few. My next upper for this will be a 9mm.  I nearly have all I need for that build..... extra 16" barrel (needs to be cut down), bolt, FFT.... just need upper rec.[

I wish this thread was "Tacked" so everyone could eventually contribute...

You have EXACTLY the right idea behind the SBR and PISTOL laws from the ATF.. its all about the 16" barrel and the Stock that causes problems..

Btw, I had my dealer give me a copy of the Washington State Application to Transfer a Pistol, and I made sure that everything was marked "Pistol" on receipts and forms.

If you ever make it to Vancouver, let me know!!

-Jason

so, per the instructions from the atf where would i get factory verification that my pistol lower would be a pistol only lower

How the heck does that short little pistol buffer tube work?

I may be wrong but a semi auto AR pistol is not an NFA weapon, therefor not subject to The National Firearms Act.  I think the letter is wrong.

Bushy


REMOVED PICTURE...HOST SUCKS

I was kicking around the idea of getting an AR pistol but, after doing some research in the ballistics of these things, I decided against it. 7.5" bbl = 2200 FPS w/XM193. Argh.

So have to ask the question, why? Please understand that I'm looking to stir up s--t over this. I think AR pistols look very cool and, as much as I would like to have one, I can't justify one because of it's ballistic shortcomings. Besides, the fact that they look cool and are now legal again, why have one. Again, I'm not looking to start a flame war. I'm honesty and seriously curious and would love to be persuaded into getting one.

Ah... 10 1/4" barrel, 11 1/2", not so balisticly inferior if these are used.

Balistics are bad....yes, but I don't shoot people with any of my guns. I have certain guns that I hunt with, but they are all together different. If I had to have a practical reason....must or all of my guns wouldn't be in my possession.....mostly coolness factor for me.

Added...I like to be different