I'm not taking sides in this matter I'm just reporting on past history.  It is obvious where you stand.  Let the consumers hear the truth and let them decide on how and where to spend their money.

I'm a fan of the 6.5 Grendel cartridge and have no particular loyalty to any vendor other than being a satified or unsatified customer.

There are many disgruntled forum members who are sick of all the purse swinging which goes on in the variants forum.   I personally don't like all the confusion associated with the 6.5 Grendel and think it has only hurt the shooting public and their interest.

Your history is slanted. Satern had short throats due to the SAAMI spec and they fixed it with going with a standard throat. AA did not and continue to suffer as a consequence. They choose to attack Satern  (via internet proxies) to deflect from them having the same issue but not dealing with it like Satern did. Satern took the hit from the Grendel gurus for dropping the compound throat but continue to grow in popularity with the shooters that want a Grendel that performs with no drama. They probably sell more Grendels than everyone else combined they crank them out in the thousands. AA has a small loyal fanatical following and its not growing despite pumping thousands into magazine ads. Satern does no ads just makes barrels that work.

Paging NorCal....

NorCal to the Variants section please....

I like the hell out of my Christensen Arms 20", came with its own gasblock/tube which was nice and the weight is stupid light. Balances really nice too.

Here's a great thread on the Grendel SAAMI stuck round issue this guy was using a Precision Arms barrel which aren't cheap he had to return it twice.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_4/5879_6-5-Grendel-tight-chamber-.html

And another

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/713468_6-5-Grendel----short-strokes-and-sticks-in-the-chamber-.html

and another http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_66/568645_FTE_FTF_in_6_5_Grendel.html

and another

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/713779_Help--casing-stuck-in-chamber.html

Oh but i'm just pointing all this out because i have a "vendetta" and a "agenda" and i'm really someone else like "norcal" or who ever. Blah, blah blah. Googles your friend use it don't follow opinions of forum guru's like the rest of the sheeple. Read and learn you'll see this bullet stuck issue that the die hard Grendel SAAMI fans pretend is not out there is in fact everywhere with guys reporting it constantly.


This is why the Grendel II was adopted and why it works and why midwayusa and brownells use it. Its why you should avoid buy SAAMI Grendel chambers unless you can first inspect it.

I got no dog in this fight,  but posting a bunch of meme's makes you look silly.


This is a tech forum, . . . not general discussion.

just my opinion

Have a great Holiday weekend

.

AA attacks Satern with proxies?  Where's the evidence of that?

Some of the most accurate Grendel barrels I've shot have been Satern with a SAAMI chamber.  In fact, if anyone cares to search the keywords, you'll find me saying that for years....because it's true.  Just like the other barrel manufacturers who have had exceptionally accurate results that I've shot from AA, Bartlein, Lilja, PF, Specialized Dynamics, Templar, Shilen, the list goes on.

AA has a small fanatical following?  Ha ha. How many other mid-size companies have multiple NRA Rifle of the Year awards, and have recently moved to larger production facilities?

XCountryRider's/BarrelCactus's beef with AA is based on a steady diet of crap he's been fed by disgruntled people in the industry who predicted the Grendel's demise years ago, all of whom curiously try to sell some alternate chambered Grendel.

Along comes this guy , trying to snipe people from AR15.com to go over to his abortion of a forum populatted by these types, shilling their products.

Still can't do basic math on the difference between a 6.5 CM chamber and what can fit in an AR15 magazine I see.

What's this callout in violation of the COC you did?

Pat Rogers used to maintain several 5.56 NATO reamers for all the carbines with "5.56" chambers that would come through his courses, which blew primers, failed to extract live rounds, overpressure issues galore.

I see short chambers all the time with .223 Wylde and .308 Win.

Every company has a bad day.

How they deal with it determines their character.

Some are run by people with negative personalities who thrive on drama and antagonism, then blame their internal problems on someone else.

Othhers just take care of the customer and move forward.  

The ones who have good CS usually win NRA awards for their products based on sales, innovation, and commitment to driving the industry with progress.

His previous handle was XCountryRider, banned for shilling and encouraging people to continue to shoot dangerous chambers that were blowing primers.

Told people to ignoore the haters who advised anyone that is blowing primers to return the barrels to the manufacturers.

Still can't do basic math.

Still has dangerous data posted here on his spreadsheet.  I thought he had the sense to remove the dangerous data, which even the manufacturer of the components says not to use, but nope.  It's still right there.  That's what happens when you think you're competent about something, but are still in the amateur stage of a new subject.

This is a perfect example of why some people really need to read more, and not post in the tech forums unless they have a question.

There are a lot of threads I stay out of and don't post in because I'm not familiar enough with the topic to offer anything of relevance or experience.

When someone takes a small bite of a subject, then become an expert overnight, it's a recipe for disaster.

My favorite rifle company is KAC.

BA just makes good products. They also support the forum and industry as a whole.

We asked them to produce and they did.

BA is far from new - they turned barrels for most of the big names until bought by Aero Precision (another small company)

Looks familiar

Attached File

It's XCountryRider's google doc spreadsheet, as if we wouldn't notice he made a retread and came here to shill again.

BarrelCactus = XCountryRider = owner of his circuular firing squad forum of Grendel trashers who build Grendel-wannabe products, claiming to be better.

It still has verifiably unsafe data posted in the spreadsheet.

Don't take my word for it though, just consult wiith the manufacturer of one of the components.

When amateurs present themselves as knowledgeable and reputable in disciplines that involve pressuure containment vessels and explosions, they need to be called out immediately before their recommenndations spread.  Believe it or not, people come here regularly looking for soliid information, and many newer members who are just geting into shooting or reloading figure this site just migh have a wealth of information on it, because it does.  In the tech forums, we really need to keep the quality high by following the CoC.

This is the guy that was pushing a 120gr TSX at 2820fps from a 6.5 Grendel with his starting load/found on internet recipe from a different bullet.

Now he's an expert in reloadiing data.

Find another hobby with soft things like balloons that don't have the capacity to lift anything more than a string.

Stay away from firearms, reloading, and potentially dangerous disciplines that involve applied physics outside of basiic human bipedal locomotion.

To tell you the truth he might be more dangerous on the computer than playing with firearms. At least to innocent people.

The world is full of people who get free services because they bitch and moan so much.

Funny, I got my AA barrel [with the *gasp* dreaded compound throat]  in February, and have had no issues. As a matter of fact it even shoots the steel case wolf in decent groups.

BC/XCR says he isn't here to grind any axes, but rather to "set the record straight" and to preach the gospel of the Satern version of the Grendel as being the best thing since canned beer and sliced bread. He says he does this because the evil doers from the AA camp keep squashing down any dissenting viewpoints and because LRRPF52 yelled at him.

Well, I can tell you that the only thing true BC said in the above is that he got called out by LRRPF52 pretty quickly on both this and the Grendel forum for spamming them with the pile of raw data contained in that spread sheet being passed of as loading recipes.  In addition to being unmanaged and without true oversight, the data is unvetted as well as being scraped up from multiple sources without discernment. Further, in at least one confirmed instance, it has been edited to include components which were never used by the original poster of the load data (added without his participation).  So, when LRRPF52 called BC on some of the data, I believe it was with good reason.

As to the rest, I can state without reservation that as an owner of a >dramatic pause< non-compound throated barrel, I have never been made to feel like I was an outsider by a single person from the 65Grendel board, nor have I been admonished for my choice of Grendel variants. It also follows that I never tried to convince anyone on the board that mine was better than theirs, or start posting data which was clearly out of normal ranges, make absurd claims about the data, and declare that I had "found a magic barrel"!  I've only posted my data, the good with the bad, and let the facts speak for themselves. (And no, my barrel does not like many of the loads listed on said spreadsheet. Unlike some, I have always understood that each barrel has it's own particular appetite. That is why we work up loads from safe levels, regardless of what other people may say.)

But none of this matters, when you have someone like BC/XCR, etc. with limited reading comprehension and childlike dispositions. They gloss over the facts and reasoned positions taken by those who disagree and become defensive and hostile. When that happens, it can only end badly.

There have been only three people I remember being permanently banned from the 65 board, two of which were also banned from this board. XCR was one of them If this BC is not XCR posting under a new screen name, then he is clearly one of XCR's favorite drones.

When BC comes back from his weekend, I'm sure he will be prepared to resume his crusade. When he does, let's hope that the mods have come back from vacation, as well.

They banned him again.  It was obvious from the get-go that it was him.  Violating the CoC multiple times a day didn't help his shilling attempts for his website and cooperation with whoever is sponsoring him.

In that spreadsheet, in addition to changing critical components from one of the sources without that source's permission, he also has at least one load with recalled components from the manufacturer.  I would bring this up whether he was friendly or hostile because I don't want to see anyone have their firearm damaged or worse, someone injured.

Recall that as soon as he posted that data, there was a string of thanks and compliments for his effort, as most people don't know the history and assume he was here to benefit other shooters.

The amount of vetting we did for the Reloading Handbooks was not only a team effort between an aerospace engineer with decades of formal research, academic discipline, a PhD, and me, but also involved gaining permissions from industry sources, as well as private sources of data, which we had to vet with specific parameters, starting with SAAMI specified MAP.

There is no money in Reloading Handbooks, if anyone thinks my motive for mentioning them is financially based.  They are a sure way to lose money, unless you have relevant products to accompany them, like companies who manufacture 6.5 Grendel rifles and uppers.  They've been more of a service to other shooters than anything else, costing significant sums of capital, and tireless years of work.  Any proceeds have to go back into additional print runs.

Just let it be known that the data in them was thoroughly vetted by multiple people with relevant experience and industry standards guiding the process.  The handbooks also are not just load data, but cover many aspects of loading for the AR15, component selection, how to detect excessive or abnormal pressure signs, reloading guidelines, terminal ballistics of several hunting bullets so hunters can see where their expansion thresholds are, then determine their effective ranges for expansion and energy.

They also include graphs showing the breakdown of Point Blank Zero for barrel lengths ranging from 10.5" to 24" rifles, matching projectiles with the game you are hunting, a projectile list with bullet lengths and BCs, and a discussion of the different types of chambers and how one would approach them when loading.

It's funny that people with an ax to grind accuse me of trying to scare people away from the industry standard chamber, when I have published and printed handbooks with a detailed description of the variant chambers in the beginning of Volume I.

Given the amount of different barrels that I have personally tested, I personally do prefer the SAAMI chamber, but I have seen other chamber designs on occasion that shoot well with the Hornady factory 123gr AMAX or SST.  None of them have out-shot the SAAMI chamber though.

I have one Lilja 16" Wasp profile that I built with one of the original group buy barrels that shot 4 consecutive .78" to .86" 3rd groups, which is more than adequate for a little LW hunter, but every other barrel with that chamber I tested, and there were many, simply did not shoot even MOA, including a bull fluted 22.5".

When I got a replacement for it, same barrel profile, same fluting, same length, everything the same, but with a SAAMI chamber, it shot in the .3s to .6s, 5rd groups, between me and the forum member I built it for.  It's one of the most accurate Grendel barrels I've tested, along with 2 older Satern barrels from AA with the SAAMI chamber, a Bartlein from PF, and my Lilja 318 Grendel.

I just report accurately what I see, without an agenda for anything other than what I can document.  Nobody is paying me or using me as a proxy-something I've been accused of for years now, always by people with an ax to grind with the Grendel and AA, which I have no stake in the matter with.

I just found a cartridge that does things for the AR15 we always wanted, dating back to my childhood, and have really enjoyed its performance.  I don't think AA could pay me enough for all the praise I've sung for it, and to the contrary, one of their employees said I make his life harder by mentioning their barrels when people ask for where the best deals can be found.

In return, I'm callled a proxy or shill for AA by guys who have been banned from this forum multiple times for doing exactly that for other companies who want a piece of the Grendel market, but figure trashing the chamber design is a good marketing approach.

I wish we were better than that as a shooting community, and I think for the most part, we are, but bad apples seek the most attention.

Well, as someone who is just getting ready to test the 6.5G water, I appreciate your input and experience and the information that you've shared with all of us. I'm going to put a rifle together (Something I want to do but have absolutely no need for!) and I'm still in the process of reading and trying to absorb everything I can from you guys that have already BTDT. Your posts are always informative and fact-based and I enjoy reading them.  I've been lurking over on TOS for a while now and just recently joined. Thanks, and keep 'em coming!

I'm agnostic to brands. My AA 16" barrel with wolf shoots better than expected and the Hornady factory ammo shoots better than I deserve.

That xcountry-cactus guy has some sort of psychological problem that we here can't diagnose.

When my 12.5 BA barrel arrives, I expect it to perform in a similar manner to the 16" AA.

All I know is that I get something that weighs in like a 5.56 sbr but has 308 characteristics.

Nice work.

Now your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to clean up GD of it's troll and retreads!

I have no control over banning.  I told mods it was him as soon as he surfaced.

He violated some aspect of the CoC while I was in the hospital this week.

I know you don't do the banning, but nailing him down as a troll and publisher of bad info is just as good.


You bored of the couch yet?

Is the Classic Firearms grendel barrel decent? I know that there are better barrels out there but I am not looking for a competition type rifle. I saw BA just released their grendel barrels but I am having a hard time justifying a $300 barrel at this moment

Anyone know the weight of the faxon "big gunner 16 inch 6.5 grendel bbl"?

I just bought one on optics planet and it doesnt say the weight and I may have goofed. Looking for something relatively lightweight.

From the AIM Surplus industry forum:

I'd guess between 25-30 oz, with most of that weight near the chamber.  Should handle nicely!

Faxon emailed me quickly and said they are 1.54lbs

I bought the Classic Barrel on sale for $80 and it shoots pretty good.    I've only put a couple hundred rounds of cheap Wolf steel case through it at this point but it is < 2 MOA @ 100.    I have some Hornady coming my way and should have some grouping with it in a couple weeks but overall I'm pleased with the Classic barrel at this point.    

Take that with a grain of salt though.   I think barrels are a game of consistency.    You would need a statistical analysis of everything that comes off the line to determine your likelihood of getting a "good one".

I just ordered one myself (18" straight fluted)

I scoured everywhere I could find barrels I think are from the same manufacturer, one guy had a bad crown and once that was fixed it was fine.  Between Sanders, BCA and Classic that was the only bad review I could find.

Yea.. they sure look nice.   I'm happy with mine and it shoots good enough with the cheap Wolf that it can serve as my practice upper at the very least.    From looking at what people are getting out of Wolf at the same range mine is right in there with the Faxon, AA & Odin barrels.     I'm chasing other issues to improve my results (trigger & optics) but I'm pretty happy if I can use it to hit 18" targets @ 500m.    Most of my shooting will be <300m so the Wolf covers most of my needs and I'll narrow down a Hornady load for the days I'm shooting 500m.

You may wish to visit Odin Works, they offer a selection of 6.5 Grendel barrels.

6.5 Grendel Barrels

Any opinions on AR15Performance grendel barrels? I saw no mention of them here, unless I missed it.

There are reasons for that. Ahem.

My fault. I should have seen the pinned post.

It looks like Primary Arms has Odin Works 18" Grendel barrels with gas block, tube and bog for just under 340$.   Damn good deal IMO.

Appear to be sold out at the moment. Seems like a great option though.

That didn't last long.  I'm glad I ordered last night.

Ok so what barrel should we buy a BCA ,AA or what I'm so dam confused. I'm getting ready to purchase a Seekens Precision upper and rail next up will be the Barrel.......

isn't that Joe from Star Metal who was banned here a long time ago for issues....

Top 4 for me

Ballistic Advantage
Faxon
Lilja
Christensen Arms

Those selections will cover anyone's needs.

BC/XCR is making money off his group buys. His posts here are simply a sales pitch to put down the competition and trump up his product. Follow the money.