I currently have a 6.5 grendel with an 18" barrel that I would be happy to use on deer or pig hunts. I'm looking to get something that would be a better option for hunting elk.
I realize that a 6.5 grendel round is capable of taking down an elk, but I want to make sure I am using the best round in the AR15 platform for larger game.

Some of my concerns are:
1. being able to take large game at realistic distances (I don't plan on taking 800 yard shots at game - not ethical for ME)
2. keeping it in the AR15 platform (because I already have a lower receiver, just sitting around)
3. availability of ammo (I am not yet reloading, but plan to start "some day")

The 300 BLK, 458 Socom, and 50 Beowolf would all have the knockdown power, but I don't think they have the distance capability. (Please correct me if I am mistaken.)
I would likely stay to well under 400 yards.

Any suggestions on a good choice for me? Am I stuck with moving up to AR10 or getting the Remington GII (if I can even still get anything in CA)?

You already have the right tool for the job, just learn how to use it. The next option is 458 socom, but at 400yds I'm unsure if it's going fast enough to properly expand, plus, you'll have to dial up quite a ways I bet. There is no better cartridge to reach out and hit things than the Grendel.

At 400yds the 18" Grendel and 123gr SST bullets, the bullet will expand and perform as designed. Actually getting the job done is up to the shooter though. What you have will do the job if you're up for it.

ETA: If your range is 200yds or less, the 458 might win the energy battle, but I wouldn't hesitate to take an elk with my Grendel at that range either. 458 socom will be quite a bit more expensive to shoot, harder to find, and you won't shoot it as much because of the stiffer recoil and price. I wouldn't even consider 300blk though.

Just buy more ammo for your Grendel and get to shooting it.

For the love of God, do NOT hunt elk with a .300 BLK. The Grendel make the .300 look like a bitch every time, and I wouldn't use the Grendel on elk either.

For pure big game hunting, get the .458 SOCOM.

FPNI

what you want is an AR 10 and even that is not enough for an elk.  use the correct caliber not just what ever fits in an AR platform.

What about the .375 SOCOM by TROMIX?  Ammo is available from SBR if you don't reload and it is capable of taking game to 250-300 yards with 200 gr bullets such as the Speer FN, Maker solid copper, and the Vollmer lead cored spitzer.  Brass is easily formed from the .458 SOCOM case and there is quite a bit of data on the .458 SOCOM forums.

Everything you said is false.

There are some other wildcats like 7mm Valkryie and an in development .30 Sabercat.  I have a 6.5brx cat.  I'd just go with a bigger platform like a dpms G2 if I wanted to seriously hunt elk though.  6.5 Creedmoor or similar or maybe a .338 Federal.  I have a grendel, 6.5 brx and a creedmoor, but I would go larger than ar15 or elk. That's me though.

I look at this a little different. There is no replacement for displacement. People have been killing big animals with big, fat & slow moving bullets at distance for a long time. Why mess with success? 458 socom or 50 Beowulf is the answer.

Know your gun, know your holdovers and don't overshoot your skill level.

I would highly suggest reloading if you don't. It'll bring cost down and opens up options not available commercially.

So people haven't been killing animals with medium bore cartridges for a long time?

I agree with everything else, knowing your gun and knowing your limits is the most important thing here. Grendel is definitely not the ultimate elk cartridge, but it will absolutely work for what the OP is asking. Shorter ranges, in an AR platform. Jumping to a 6.5 CM in a small frame AR10 wouldn't be a bad idea, but he already has the rifle, he just needs to learn it and learn his limits with it.

.300 BLK reminds me of a short-bus version of the .30-30.

.458 SOCOM should do quite well; put together a holdover and retained-energy table to figure out where your chosen load will hit and how far out you're comfortable with it.

Grendel could work. SOCOM will work, probably better than anything else that fits an AR-15 magwell, provided you recognize the ballistic limitations of slow-and-fat cartridges and act accordingly.

Quite a few threads in big game about Grendel taking elk.

You really have no clue. As to the op many elk have been harvested with the grendel. Place your shot appropriately and know your limits and it sounds like you do and you won't have a problem.

not if your a real hunter.  a .22 LR could theoretically work too but that also would be a jackass stunt, not what the animal deserves.

grendel will ethically kill anything in north america inside of 400 yards, IMO. you also get the benefit of cheap steel cased ammo to practice with

my thoughts. if you HAVE to use your $30 lower than grendel would be my vote. but otherwise your demands are more than a AR15 magwell will hold IMO.

More false statements.

The 6.5 Grendel was developed as a sport cartridge for longer range deer hunting not elk hunting. Yes you can take elk with it but there are much, much better calibers suited for elk. You can talk it up all you want but it wasn't designed for the larger class NA game, especially with a 18" barrel at longer ranges.

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I personally wouldn't use any standard AR15 round for elk past 200 yards.  The grendel is probably the best that's available without getting into the wssm or ossm rounds.  The 450 bushmaster, 458 and 50 beuwolf are all good elk rounds if you keep shots to 200 yards.  IN MY OPINION the grendel is a marginal elk round but could work at distances that the big bore's are going to be falling like a rock.  For the price of a decent upper you can buy a solid bolt action in 06, 7mm mag and reach 400 yards.  The 308 is a solid option as well.  Or the 7mm08 or 6.5 creedmor if you want lower recoil.  Ruger american or savage axis 2 can both be had around 400 dollars and will be better than any ar15 for elk.

So since the 375 Cheytac was designed as an ultra long range target round it shouldn't be used for game hunting, because that's not what the cartridge designer had in mind?

Not all tools are used how the designer intended them, that's doesn't mean it's the wrong tool.

In my home state of NM minimum legal for elk is .243.  It's generally accepted as not adequate.  I never shot an elk, but ran into them a bunch of times walking dogs.  .308 minimum I'd guess, they look like .270 size animals.  70 feet away you see just how big they are.

Some guy up the road from me on the Mescalero Apache Res had an elk fenced in his back yard.  It just stood there like a Jersey cow.

This.  

Or build a 308.

That wasn't my point at all. Sure you can use it but why? It doesn't even have the normal barrel length for proper 6.5 velocities. Almost any other mid-range caliber 260 and up is better at 200 yards and in. Over that I'd want the knock down power of a .308 or even 270. If you have to ask if it is enough then it probably isn't.

Really I was echoing the virtues of the effect of 45/70 on game like buffalo in centuries past(and at far range). And yes I agree small and medium bore cartridges like 25-35 and other were used, but not really a fair comparison given the current bullet technology that allows 6.5grendel to be effective. 6.5 has earned its place but I think it gets a tad more credit than deserved. Its not 6.5x55 or 260rem, which I consider 140grn loads to be optimal for large, non dangerous game in either cartridge. End of the day, holes kill stuff, holes in the right places kill stuff faster, bigger holes do it faster than small ones.

I have a "450" Bushmaster in a 20 inch barrel. Out to 200 yards plenty of thump, Drop right on your "AR" lower, fairly easy find ammo for, Hornady makes two different 250 gn  and Remington makes a 260 grain.
The Hornaday is almost always in stock at Midway, the Remington is more difficult to find. But it can be had. I reload so that makes that part easier.

To try to address everyone at the same time, I'm not trying to say Grendel is the best elk cartridge ever, I've been elk hunting every year since I could carry a gun and I've seen a decent amount of them taken. I'm aware they're tough animals. But this isn't necessarily a discussion of "Is Grendel the ultimate elk round", it's about the best round choice for an AR15, which I believe to be the Grendel for a guy that already has one, and doesn't handload.

By the numbers the 123gr SST will perform out to 400yds, and people have done just that. I've seen a handful of pics and videos of people taking elk with a Grendel, some at 400+yds.

Double.

just stick with the grendel. with the sst it will get the job done if you do your part and slip it in the right spot. yes their are the big bores but they have their limitations which is distance.

I personally would take BC over mass when it comes to longer distance. reason being is a flatter shooting wind bucking bullet will be more forgiving if your say your range finder gets left behind or shits on you, and you guestimate in range is off by 40 yards at say 300 yards, or your wind call is off 7mph at that distance. that could make the difference of a injured animal that will never get found and a dead one with a smaller bullet toting less KE.

that said. know your limitations. being a ethical hunter means knowing when to make a shot or pass on one. go shoot your rifle from improvised field shooting positions and for kicks. leave the range finder in the truck. and find some targets off oppertunity(a rock on a hillside, old tree trunk, or hell even a baron spot of dirt) and take a crack at it. see what you think the distance is and make the shot and see if you hit it, or if you missed, by how much. then take that data and see if you would have gut shot the animal, or hit the shoulder which would send that animal running for a great distance.

I have taken dozens of elk over the last 40 years with both the .270 round and the .308 round, some over 350 yards, so many seem to forget  a hell of a lot of animals over the last 150 years were taken with a simple 30-30, my wife and I currently hunt deer with the .300 blk and we have both harvested deer the last couple of years, but we limit our range to 150 or under.

The .270 is a 6.8mm bullet, but the .308 is pretty much strong enough for the majority of the North American game animals.

The most important factor in clean ethical kills is the hunter knowing the strength and limits of the round he/she is using.

I am sure with the proper skills and practice, your Grendel is just fine for elk hunting.

I appreciate all the responses.

I think my initial thoughts have been confirmed. The 6.5 Grendel *can* take an elk if I do my job. A large bore in AR15 platform would be outstanding, but not if the shot is a long distance.

So, I may keep this stripped lower and hold onto it for a while. I may build it out with one of the large bores just to have it. If I am able to get a Remington R25 GII in .308, I may do that.

But, for now, I guess I'll just plan on using my 300 Weatherby bolt action, which will do the job up close or at a distance.

Thanks again for the commentary.

The most common Elk cartridge in Norway is the 6.6x55.  Yea it is a bit more powerful than the Grendel.  But we also need to remember that Elk in Norway look like this..



If the hunter knows his weapon and practices at expected ranges.  Then only takes ethical shots the Grendel is a very acceptable round for American Elk.  I have read reports of many Elk taken with the Grendel from 75yds to 400yds.   In the AR15 platform and staying with non wildcat loads with ammo available from retail outlets, Brick and Mortar or Mail Order the Grendel fits the bill.

There are other rounds that fit the AR15 but are pure wildcats.  The 375 and 458 socoms do have loaded ammo available though they are still considered wildcats.  The rest of the cats will be a roll your own type of deal.

270 and 308 hit harder than the 6.5 at any reasonable range.  AT the muzzle the grendel has a hornady hits value of 775.  Which puts it solidly in the medium game realm.  Hornady recommend a min of 901 for elk sized game.  The 260 remington and creedmor score 1100.   308 with 180's is 1268 and 270 with 150's is 1214.   Hornady knows what they are talking about.  Its not like the grendel is on the edge either.  Truth be told for 400 yard shots the 270 and 308 are on the edge.  Now all that being said if you want to wait for bow angle shots and are willing/capable of tracking anything from a 223 on up will work.  Put a 62 grain ttsx through the lungs at 200 yards and it will kill the elk.  Might go a ways but it will die.

Where I live these days, honestly I have not shot an animal over 75 yards in years, most of the time, I shoot them from the front or back porch!

I am a fan of 300blk but that said do not hunt elk with it. It's capable of taking small deer and hogs but nothing else imo. It has way less energy than the 6.5 Grendel.

You have the right tool for the job in an AR15 package.  If you are talking under 250yds, then 458 Socom, 50 Beowulf and 450 Bushmaster are goid options. Even the Grendel I would have a tough time taking long shots on elk.

The only real option between the Grendel and the big bores. Is 375 Socom, but ammo availability comes from only 2 or 3 places and it's just as expensive if not more than the other big bores. It's something to consider

Unfortunately the AR 15 platform is not suited to large game hunting, I can't think of a suitable caliber for Elk or larger, the AR10 has plenty of options but I really think a good old bolt gun would serve you best-  In ky 6.5 wouldn't be legal so you'd be stuck with short range calibers

That's not true either.

People have taken moose in Alaska with an AR15 and plenty of people take other big game with them. For the large game at short ranges, 375 socom, 458 socom, 450 bushmaster, and 50 beowulf would do an amazing job. We're not discussing what a Fudd would use, we know grandpappy used a good old bolt action 270 or 30-06 and killed elk every year. But there's tons of other options. An AR15 can absolutely be used on everything in North America with just as much success as anything else, depending on range.

I would never claim it to be the end all be all of hunting rifles, but to say it's not an option for some things is false.

The ar15 has several Wildcats that would fill the bill very effectively.   7mm Valkyrie, 375 socom, 358Yeti all throw 308 comparable projectiles.  The Valkyrie throws a 160gn at 2600fps.  I would not hesitate to hunt with this as my primary weapon.

However being Wildcats, one may not feel comfortable loading for these.  As far as I am aware, if these 3, the 375socom is the only one I would be comfortable shooting to 300yds and has retail ammunition available

Yep a savage in 30.06 will run about the same as a 65 upper
Can a 6.5 g work.. sure but I have seen big Bulls take a 270 to the lungs and run for 3/4 of a mile
I don't break concrete with a framing hammer ??

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Tac15 crossbow upper.

I'd ask, are you traveling to make this elk hunt? Is it a rare opportunity to hunt elk for you?
What happens if you see a great trophy elk a bit far off, and maybe your only target is straight
into the rear of the animal. If it's hundreds of yards away and you are using a .338 Win Mag
that you have become properly skilled with. The right ammo will reach the vitals and you can
ethically take that shot for an immediate kill.
If you are close to home and you are able to hunt elk with no elaborate travel, then you can
much more easily let that rear end shot walk away, because you get to hunt elk more often
than the first guy. You then can use a caliber that offers less range to you. It's just about being
ethical to the animal which DESERVES a one shot kill.

IMO for an AR-15 the Grendel is about as good as it gets for range, accuracy and power in one package.

The big bores sound fun but run out of steam much faster.  Probably better than most but not at 400yds.

I researched them (I wanted on shelf ammo availability so I didn't get into many off the wall wildcats, 5.56, 6.5G, 6.8, 7.62x39 and .458socom) and settled on the Grendel for my longer range hunting rifle.

BUT if I was going on a Elk hunt (which would involve traveling across several states) it would not be my Grendel.  Whitetail, mule deer, antelope?  Sure, game on.  Elk or moose?  Heck no.  Especially for the ranges you are talking.  

IMO for what you want you won't get in an AR15.

Fellow grendel owner and agree completely.  I am going on a elk hunt in CO next year.  The grendel won't be making the trip.  I will take my 300 wsm and 308 as a backup.  Already figure that I will limit myself to 400 yard shots with the wsm and 300 to 350 with the 308.

The most common bore diameter in Scandinavia for hunting moose has been .30 bore over the last century.  Most moose are shot with .308, .30-06, or .300 Win Mag.

They are also the least effective bore diameter of all the bore diameters surveyed in the Scandinavian Moose Hunting Survey, which analyzed over 14,000 samples of moose hunts, the calibers used, and the travel distance from the shot.

Of all the calibers used, .30 bores had the most travel distance after the shot, which means chances of you having to track the animal are measurably higher, but maybe slightly so.  This does increase chances of losing an animal though, albeit in the margins.

The .45 bore cartridges like .458 Win Mag and .45-70 had the least travel distances, but they represented a very small portion of the samples, and these cartridges seem to be chosen by shooters that also practice more with other rifles, shoot regularly, etc., whereas the .30 bore shooters are often unaccomplished, Fudd types.

The bore diameters that stuck out the most in the Scandinavian moose hunting survey were 6.5mm and 7mm, proving to deliver the shortest travel distances from the shot on moose, after .45 bores.  The most common 6.5mm chamberings are 6.5x55 Mauser and 6.5x284, while 7mms are either 7mm Rem Mag, 7x57 Mauser, and 7x64 Brenneke to a lesser extent (.280 Remington).

Most of your 6.5x55 Mauser loadings are a 140-160gr going pretty slow.  Sectional density helps retain energy and weight, while projectile construction favors early expansion/mushrooming, with plenty of tail end to drive the bullet deep into the vitals.

They do a lot of driven hunts in Finland, with stands all over the countryside the more and more north you go.  Distances are normally within 75m, and there used to be a hunting test you had to pass involving a moving moose silhouette at 75m shot 20 times from a standing position with a high hit % in the vitals before the fudds got it removed.  Between Norway, Sweden, and Finland, they harvest over 200,000 moose annually, so there is a lot of data to be able to make more conclusive observations.  The Finns had the highest percentage of sample returns.  The Swedes harvest the most moose by far, often exceeding 100,000 per year.

.30-30 has been used as well to harvest moose at close ranges.  Moose are generally easy to put down when you find them chewing their cud with a nice broadside shot.  They will often just stand there as if nothing happened, and continue to chew until they get tired and take a nap where they fall.

Elk know when they are being hunted during season.  Out of season, they are very approachable, although I advise against approaching them really close like the family that thought it was cool to place their kids on the elk's back for a nice picture.

More important than cartridge, your ability to make the shot is where your focus should be.  Even the .25-06 with a good bullet will drop elk where they stand, as will a .243 Winchester, .243 WSSM, .25 WSSM, etc.

Can you practice hitting an elk's vitals regularly, to the point that when the time comes, you will put it true through the vitals?

Does your bullet have the energy and penetration to make it through the vitals within the range you will be shooting?

Within the expansion ranges of the 6.5mm common hunting bullets, you have plenty of penetration to reach through the vitals of even a large bull elk, even though most tags are spikes and cows.

Best penetration and weight retention comes from the premium bullets if you hit a bone, like the Barnes 120 TSX, 100gr TTSX, Hornady GMX, Nosler E-Tip, Nosler ABLR, Nosler Partition, but several Grendel owners have DRTd elk with cup and core bullets, including the 123gr SST.  I personally choose to use different bullets like an experimental cut-down GMX or the 120gr TSX, but people have done it with 123gr SST at close range.

Several things are clear to me though, having watched boat loads of shooters trying to make 1st-round hits on a target in nature from improvised positions:

Your hit probability through the vitals is much higher with lighter-recoiling rifles.
6.5mm is about the lowest most people want to go when looking at bullet weight and sectional density for penetration on large game.
Higher impact speeds through the vitals lead to quicker kills.

Make sure to do your terminal ballistics calculations with the altitude and conditions you will be in when inputting data into your program.  We don't see elk in season much below 6000ft here in Utah, and most are above 8000ft.

If you are not using the AR15, I would get the most comfortable rifle for you that is chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor and practice with it regularly on elk vitals from various positions.

The Ruger American is in the $350 range.

There is another direction you can go for a more dedicated elk gun in the AR15, and that is the DTECH WSSM chamberings.

This is a .243 WSSM that he put right through the heart at 348yds.  From the conditions, I see a zero wind value, so if you practice with the rifle, you should be able to make a 1st-round hit through the vitals from the prone at 350yds no problem, especially from the prone.

Getting the prone is very rare though, maybe 15% of the time max.  You normally will be shooting from kneeling, seated, with some kind of hard support if you are smart, otherwise your shots need to stay within your practical effective range.

Bottom line is the smaller 6.5mm Grendel requires a very good shot in the vitals to be effective on elk and bigger sized game. Just like any other barely adequate rifle. If you are willing to wait or pass on a shot then fine but I'd rather have the option of having a caliber with enough oomph to get a killing shot when not having a perfect broadside shot. If you have the option of taking a higher power rifle do yourself and the elk a favor and use it. I just don't understand hunters that want to go lighter and shorter for bigger and bigger game when they probably have better tools in their arsenal to do the job. You don't get any extra bonus point for it except maybe a higher potential for just wounding the game they are hunting. That being said this does not apply to the hunter that gets to hunt elk a lot over multiple years and really knows their equipment.

Out of an AR-15 the Grendel is the best bet. BUT, you really would be better served with something like a .30-06, .270, or 300 Win Mag for long range elk hunting.

I have one in 30-06, they are a really nice rifle for the money.

False economics suggest a 7mm Valkyrie wildcat. The Valkyrie and the .257 Bobcat have limited support. But it would be much less expensive, over the long term, to buy a DPMS G2 in .308 or the Savage MSR in 6.5 Creedmoor. Reloading a .308 or 6.5Creedmoor will be quicker than the time needed by the wildcats.

The most that can stuffed into an ar-15 upper is probably the DTech WSSM offerings.

The 7.62x40wt is as pragmatic as a wildcat can be. It is useful, within its limits.

Wow.....a shiOt load of info......nothing I can add that has not been addressed