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Posted: 3/27/2017 10:05:18 AM EDT
I've noticed that a lot of the folks who dislike 300blk refer to the various mid weight bullet options when discussing it as a super sonic round. I don't get it. Sure, I can see why ammo companies offer these loads, but they should never be anything but plinking ammo. Ballistically and in terms of bullet options (so far) these loads are the worst option out there. The 300blk is that rare example that works best at the extremes.
Why handicap it by forcing the small case and powder charge to push a mid weight bullet when it will never get it going as fast as higher power rounds? The whole point of running heavier bullets is because if you are limited to subsonic you want to maximize the other half of the energy equation. That and provide enough pressure to cycle, but that's a mechanical issue for gas guns that can be handled other ways if needed.
If you've got a limited case capacity and a bullet diameter that allows such a huge range, you want to maximize velocity OR maximize bullet weight (and be just under the speed of sound). Trying to balance between those points gives you not enough velocity to matter and all the downsides of a slower heavier load. Yes, in theory those longer bullets have better BC's, but the initial velocity difference kills that at almost any expected distance.

Then you get into bullet design itself. So far, and definitely correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure there are at least a few exceptions I'm not aware of), but the 140-180 grain bullets are almost exclusively designed for much higher velocities. The match bullets may work fine for punching paper, but the hunting bullets are not getting enough velocity to expand. I know Barnes and Lehigh make bullets specifically designed to function at 300blk velocities, at opposite ends of the velocity spectrum, but I'm not aware of any in the middle ground.

Don't get me wrong, if you are just looking for plinking bullets and loading your own ammo there's something to be said for 147 or 150 grain, but 110's are dirt cheap too. Since the factory loads in the mid weights aren't particularly cheap it just seems odd to focus on them when criticizing the round's performance. Even the ammo companies have started offering more options at the ends of the spectrum, at better prices.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not unaware of the limitations and faults of the round, but if you're going to talk badly about it compared to other rounds you should compare apples to apples. Picking excellent and best case loads for 223 and then worst case for the 300blk and pointing out where the 300blk isn't better is dishonest. The whole concept of the round is being able to go from relatively high velocity bullets at one end to subsonic at the other. Everything in between is just filler and not what the round is designed around.
Link Posted: 3/27/2017 4:12:26 PM EDT
[#1]
.300 AAC Blackout is a reloader's round.  If you can't see past that, failure is inevitable.
Link Posted: 3/27/2017 5:12:47 PM EDT
[#2]
I have to disagree with your assumption. look at the 30-30 for example it shoots a 170gr bullet at a hair under 2000ft/sec (from a trapper model which is most common 16-18.5") and has killed a ton of animals within 200yds. when you start running heavier bullets you gain sectional density which translates into penetration capabilities. running a lightly constructed bullet even at a modest velocity of 1900-2000ft/sec may kill as good or better than a 110gr bullet a mere 100-200ft/sec faster. I chose a 168 amax as my hunting bullet of choice for the 300 blackout and with a de-ribbed magazine (more cartridge OAL=more useable case capacity) and 1680 I got it up to 1934ft/sec from a 16" barrel so in essence I had a semi auto 30-30 with better trajectory (round nose vs spritzer) never had the opportunity to tag a deer with it and I've since sold it as I don't want to risk the 300blk in my 5.56 guns as I have kids that are getting into the sport and Murphy isn't kind to me and I will not risk one of my children getting injured!
Link Posted: 3/27/2017 5:57:17 PM EDT
[#3]
There are a ton of 150ish grain bullets out there that are cheap, which makes it cheap to grind out 300 Blackout ammo with those bullets.  They're typically FMJs, which doesn't make them great hunting bullets, but there's nothing wrong with that for practice rounds.

The "interesting" supersonic bullets are more expensive, which means more expensive ammunition.

I've loaded 110 and 150 grain bullets and have had good experiences with them, including good accuracy (once the load is tweaked) and good reliability.  I haven't hunted with anything in 300 Blackout.

So maybe the "fascination" has to do with how the more affordable commercial 300 Blackout ammo tends to be made with mid-range bullet weights...
Link Posted: 3/27/2017 6:10:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Ah hah, so we do have other options for hunting bullets. I hadn't actually thought of the 30-30 specific bullets. Major oversight on my part, because I tend to directly compare the two rounds in a lot of ways when it comes to hunting roles. Most of the folks I see comparing it are talking about generic loads though, factory stuff with general purpose 150 and 147 FMJ. Possibly the most pointless option there is for the 300blk. The A-MAX would be interesting but the minute you start modding mags and pushing the envelope I put it in a whole different world. I think much of the appeal for the 300blk has been how easy it is to make the switch. You've got a point about sectional density though, and for me that's part of what I like about the round over 223. My main focus is SBR, suppressed, subsonic. That makes it pretty much a gimme. Honestly, I could get almost the same out of a 45acp setup, but it wouldn't use the same bolt and mags. My lower would need some modding.... If I didn't live somewhere that makes getting new lowers impossible, along with mags over 10 rounds, I'd probably have gone that route, to be honest. This route lets me use the stuff I own already and they oh so graciously let me keep.

I definitely agree, overall the 300blk, for now at least, is a reloader's round or you have just a few good options for practical use and will pay a serious premium. Nothing new there. I'm surprised it hasn't gotten more reasonable but the relatively high demand for ammo overall and 300blk continuing to gain in popularity may be justifying the high prices. I reload, but wouldn't mind cheaper factory options as well. One of the things I like about 223 is that I can reload for bulk plinking ammo or I can reload for high precision. For anything in between I can just buy bulk factory ammo if I want to save my time for other activities. I make sure it's decent reloadable brass and when it's all said and done I feel like it balances out. Friends can buy factory ammo and shoot my rifles at a wide variety of price points. Shooting 300blk they're gonna treat it more like the 308. That's fine, I don't want any mag dumps through my F1 can anyway.
Link Posted: 3/27/2017 6:59:39 PM EDT
[#5]
I happen to agree with the OP.  I have LESS THAN ZERO interest in the 135-180 grain stuff.  I want supers in the 110-125 range and subs over 200.
Link Posted: 3/27/2017 7:56:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I happen to agree with the OP.  I have LESS THAN ZERO interest in the 135-180 grain stuff.  I want supers in the 110-125 range and subs over 200.
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Same. My best experiences have been with bullets on either end of the spectrum, not the middle.
Link Posted: 3/27/2017 8:54:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have to disagree with your assumption. look at the 30-30 for example it shoots a 170gr bullet at a hair under 2000ft/sec (from a trapper model which is most common 16-18.5") and has killed a ton of animals within 200yds. when you start running heavier bullets you gain sectional density which translates into penetration capabilities. running a lightly constructed bullet even at a modest velocity of 1900-2000ft/sec may kill as good or better than a 110gr bullet a mere 100-200ft/sec faster. I chose a 168 amax as my hunting bullet of choice for the 300 blackout and with a de-ribbed magazine (more cartridge OAL=more useable case capacity) and 1680 I got it up to 1934ft/sec from a 16" barrel so in essence I had a semi auto 30-30 with better trajectory (round nose vs spritzer) never had the opportunity to tag a deer with it and I've since sold it as I don't want to risk the 300blk in my 5.56 guns as I have kids that are getting into the sport and Murphy isn't kind to me and I will not risk one of my children getting injured!
View Quote
There are no midweight hunting bullets designed for the speeds the blk generates except the 30-30 flat nose bullets(if they will feed in the rifle the 150's should work ok at a muzzle velocity of 1900 to 2000 fps.  That amax load is a target bullet, it may work but even at the speeds you were getting it was a 100 to 150 yards before it wasn't going to expand at all.  The supersonic blk rounds for hunting are pretty much limited to what the OP said 110 grain ttsx or the 125 grain bullets like the nosler Btip.
Link Posted: 3/27/2017 9:05:55 PM EDT
[#8]
I do kinda agree with it being a reloaders round.

That you can use 5.56 brass to make .300blk kinda helps that train of thought along with all the interchangable rifle parts.  If you have one rifle you can use its cheaper ammo to feed the other brass and if need be spare parts (mags, bolts, firing pins...)

I don't reload and am not interested in subsonic... I liked more factory ammo variety so I went 7.62x39.
Link Posted: 3/27/2017 10:26:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I happen to agree with the OP.  I have LESS THAN ZERO interest in the 135-180 grain stuff.  I want supers in the 110-125 range and subs over 200.
View Quote
I agree.
Link Posted: 3/28/2017 1:01:53 AM EDT
[#10]
I have lost my interest in it all together regardless of bullet weight., as I have no plans to own a SBR or a can , and I can load 308 Win. with 110-180 grain bullets, with some pretty mild loads and get them to function flawlessly in my 308 pattern AR's. the only advantage it would give me is a .30 projectile in a lighter weight rifle. But I am just not that interested in it enough to keep spending money on it. The money I don't spend on a 300 blk buys me more .308 and .223 ammo and reloading supplies to shoot in the plethora of rifles I already have. I built one upper for 300 blk, loaded a few rounds, shot it very little (just enough to burn up the ammo I loaded) and just  sold it last Friday to buy more stuff for the things I do shoot a lot

I am not shitting on it, it's just not for me. But I think it's cool for another option if that's your thing esp, the guys who run cans and/or SBR's,  but like I said, for me, it's just a curiosity at best.
Link Posted: 3/28/2017 11:26:10 AM EDT
[#11]
I like shooting the 150gn sst.  Very accurate but have not tried them hunting yet.  However LSB has done some work running winchester 150gn pills

Here.

Getting great results.  Bang flop with decent expansion.
Link Posted: 3/28/2017 12:49:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I happen to agree with the OP.  I have LESS THAN ZERO interest in the 135-180 grain stuff.  I want supers in the 110-125 range and subs over 200.
View Quote
This is more or less where I'm at, although I do like the ~150gr class of bullets for churning out less expensive plinking, range and training ammo.

But for serious work, I load up 110gr TAC-TX's and 200+gr subs for quiet time (suppressed of course).
Link Posted: 3/28/2017 1:12:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Why the fascination?...short answer...because they can.  People can load, buy, and shoot whatever they want, and that's fine.  It's a projectile coming out of the barrel of a gun, and it's going to have some impact on some level.  However, I generally agree with the OP's thread comments in light of debate on how effective those "mid-weight" bullets are.

I reload and IMO the best...not only...application of 300BO is suppressed, subsonic mode.  You can use all your AR15 gear and components to get a really quiet, accurate, rifle round up to the 100-125 yard level...generally speaking.  You can buy lots of off-the-shelf ammo, reload with an unbelievable amount of excellent 30-cal bullets with little powder, and keep it in a very short barrel.  If you don't want to do the NFA, build it in pistol format.  That's what I did.  

I'll be honest.  I resisted the concept of 300BO for quite awhile.  Getting a suppressor convinced me of the wisdom of the 300BO round.  Even though the suppressor allowed me to shoot my 5.56, .223, .243, 9mm, and .308 guns without ear protection, it was a little disappointing compared to my expectations.  Once I shot a friend's 300BO AR with my silencer, I was sold.  I live in the country, and this weekend I stepped out my back door, under a metal patio cover and shot a rabbit about 40 yards away with my 9.5" 300BO pistol equipped with a Shockwave Blade.  We're overrun with rabbits this year.  Even shooting under conditions that can make a suppressed, supersonic bullet too loud under that close, metal roof, the heavy, subsonic bullet, suppressed report was nothing more than a hand clap...with about as much of it coming from the action sound of the AR.  Afterwards I closed the adjustable gas block to stop cycling for an experiment and was rewarded with even quieter operation.  I see why some like bolt action 300BO, even that's not my cup-o-tea.

For me personally, the holy grail of the 300BO is subsonic, heavy bullet, suppressed.  I think there are slightly better AR15 compatible calibers when one wants to go supersonic, though personal choices and pursuits are just that...personal.
Link Posted: 3/28/2017 4:07:48 PM EDT
[#14]
After owning a 10.5" and 12.5" 300 Blackout the problem I see is finding 0.308" bullets besides the expensive Barnes black tip that reliable expand at moderate supersonic velocity.  I still load and shoot the 12.5" 300blk but after loading 125gr, 150gr, and 180gr loads I moved on to 6.5 Grendel for hunting.
Link Posted: 3/28/2017 5:30:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
After owning a 10.5" and 12.5" 300 Blackout the problem I see is finding 0.308" bullets besides the expensive Barnes black tip that reliable expand at moderate supersonic velocity.  I still load and shoot the 12.5" 300blk but after loading 125gr, 150gr, and 180gr loads I moved on to 6.5 Grendel for hunting.
View Quote
Just curious, what did you want that the Barnes wasn't providing? Between the 110 and the 125 they seem to cover most of the likely applications for supersonic hunting with the round. Don't get me wrong, the 6.5 opens up a whole new world for hunting bullets, just curious what need wasn't being met so I can further my knowledge base. For small game I've heard of people loading the 110 V-Max,and SP's but again, short ranged to maintain sufficient velocity to function properly.

The other area I've found likely to confuse folks is that Barnes makes two versions of that 110gr, and maybe the 125. There's a 300blk version and a "normal" version designed for higher velocities. I can see folks buying the wrong one, not realizing there's two versions, and being unhappy with down range performance. The 300blk version probably turns into shrapnel at 308 or higher velocities and the standard version probably doesn't open up well at 300blk velocities. I haven't gone looking yet, but I might do so, there's probably some interesting testing results on that particular subject.
Link Posted: 3/29/2017 8:00:11 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
besides the expensive Barnes black tip
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Remyrw I'd assume this is is his reasoning. cost
Link Posted: 3/29/2017 3:43:13 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
the problem I see is finding 0.308" bullets besides the expensive Barnes black tip that reliable expand at moderate supersonic velocity.  
View Quote
There are at least 6 choices in the 125-130 class alone, and they are all proven to expand around 2000 fps.

-  Hornady 125 SST
-  Hornady 130 SP
-  Nosler 125 BT
-  Remington 125 AT
-  Sierra 125 JSP
-  Speer 125 TNT

http://www.silencertalk.com/300AAC/300%20AAC%20Blackout%20test%20results%2006OCT2010.pdf

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Rifles/300%20Blackout/300%20AAC%20Blackout%2010%25%20gelatin%20results.pdf
Link Posted: 3/29/2017 5:57:17 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:


Remyrw I'd assume this is is his reasoning. cost
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I guess, if you're hunting hogs or coyotes in high volume I could see it adding up. $30 for a 50 box, or $29 for 20 loaded rounds is not cheap but not outrageous for hunting ammo. Ammo costs, even reloading, are definitely a factor with 300blk versus 7.62x39 and 223. Oddly enough, my stumbling block right now is brass. I got some great deals initially and just can't quite bring myself to pay current prices for more. The labor and tools to convert my spare 223 doesn't work out, I might as well just buy new brass, but I seem to have a mental block about paying the going rate right now. That isn't 300blk specific though, I feel the same way about 308 and even the fresh 223 brass I want for some match grade loading.

I agree with the concept of using the cheap FMJ mid weights for plinking, but where a lot of the complainers lose me is when they take those rounds as an example of the 300blk's effectiveness and ballistic qualities. If you're gonna do plinking ammo reloads at least get 110gr or 125gr using the various cheap sp and hp bullets meant for varmint hunters. $20/100 for Hornady Spire Points. Factory ammo is still 50cents a round and up though. I'd say it will probably come down, but even 22LR hasn't come down a whole lot yet.
Link Posted: 3/29/2017 10:55:43 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:


....even 22LR hasn't come down a whole lot yet.
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And never will...
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