Anyone had experience with CBC? Anyone tried their 308 uppers? Are they any good?

thanks,
swampie

There is a 30% off deal through Monday on everything. You can get a complete 308 upper with BCG for under $500. If I can shoot off the shelf hunting ammo at under 2" at 100 yards............I want one. Just looking for input before the sale ends.

swampie

http://www.cbcindustries.com/products/copy-of-ar-10-barrel-18-308-win

Link to that deal?

A neighbor of mine ordered some AR15 handguards from them.

These were the slim versions, with small rail segments up front at 3, 6, 9, with continuous 12.

Talk about boat anchors and sharps hazards.  You would think in 2016 that people would know the meaning of lightweight, low profile handguards.

Somehow, they found a way to make a more modern-looking handguard weigh out like a 12" quad rail from YHM 12 years ago, and give the appearance that it had been made overseas, with that cheesy gloss anodized look you see on a lot of the gunshow tables.

The steel barrel nut was 4.6 oz alone.  The 12" Keymod rail was over 10 oz easily, without the barrel nut.  They have a professional website, but I get the impression someone is cashing in on tired manufacturing approaches with import-grade aluminum.

They delivered quickly, but I personally was hoping for more.






Here's their description of one of the .308 Win, uppers:




Something smells funny.  The one review on this upper:



http://www.cbcindustries.com/collections/ar15-upper-receiver-assembly/products/ar-10-upper-assembly-16-308-win-12-hera-keymod

Headspace twice from US mfg? Where are these coming from? Lots been flowing in from Turkey and eastern Europe. Might be oriental as well.

I'm getting tired of seeing all this shit. Ever since Sandy hook people have been funneling garbage from overseas.

Pass Op. If you can't save up more for a better rig, get a different platform for now. Then save up for an Armalite or DPMS.

Well, If the barrel is crap I can replace it. Same with the rail. I'm gonna risk it. It may be a while but I'll let you know how things work out.

swampie

Ignorant people should do some simple research before they post false info

CBC builds everything in their South Carolina Facility and they put a lot of veterans to work, which I respect.


Form their web site -

“Located within the greater Charleston area in South Carolina, CBC Industries provides high quality AR-15 upper receiver assemblies, AR-15 and AK-47 barrels, parts, and accessories for the enthusiast as well as the small to medium builder. We stock only the finest quality parts at highly competitive prices.

We feature a talented production team staffed by US veterans that provide the type of quality that our vets would stand behind!

We are also an official Hera Arms retailer and supplier.”


I built several AR15s with their CBC/Hera uppers and they run great.  I bought them from CBC Directly and I got a couple kits from CDNN that featured the same upper and I was able to build a great AR for less then $550

I never considered building an AR10 / LR308 but because of the quality and price of their uppers I decided to sell both of my PTR-91 to fund 2 CBC/Hera LR308s.

I got 2 fully assembled uppers with 18” barrels, 12” Hera keymod hand guards, mil spec bolts and charging handles for $550 shipped

I added fully assembled Alex Pro Fire Arms Lowers for $350 shipped.

Total cost was $900 each and they shoot great.

I need to get some optics, but so far I'm impressed with CBC

And before the shill comments start to fly I also built a couple AR Pistols using ARDepot kits, I’m working on a couple PDW full builds and I’m building a 10” pistol with parts from Cobalt Kinetics and Strike Industries.

Are the uppers very heavy? The rail "looks" lightweight but due to the above comment, Looks could be deceiving. What ammo are you shooting that shoots great? I'm hoping to get off the shelf 150 grain hunting ammo to shoot great (Winchester, Federal, ect)

Also, do you know what kind of velocity one could expect from 150 grain ammo out of an 18" barrel? I was planning on building an upper and using a 20" fluted barrel but the sale price lured me in.

thanks,
swampie

My uppers weigh 6 pounds with the BCG and CH installed

This is the model I paid $550 for that now cost $490  with 30% off


http://www.cbcindustries.com/collections/ar15-upper-receiver-assembly/products/ar-10-complete-upper-assembly-w-bcg-chh-18-308-win-15-hera-arms-keymod-ar-10-handguard-rail



I don't shoot 308 much and to be honest I don't know what I function checked these with specifically except that it was all nato surplus 7.62x51.  I bought cases of German DAG and South African a few years ago and I even had some of that CBC (not related) ammo that people complain about and all of it cycled flawlessly.

All of their rails, except for Hera Arms look like they are made overseas.

If OP welds:

http://www.theflatspot.net/308-receiver-flat-dpms-style-like-ar-10.html

Yeah, because the Hera parts are made in Germany, Merica

I meant to say overseas in China.



VS

EBAY Listing

Heavy and Sharp.



A lot of places are using the same OEM overseas in china for these types of rails.

Charging $140 for a $40 rail is a joke.

I've personally picked up one of these on Amazon for a budget build. I ended up EEing the darn thing.

I wouldn't purposely buy a .308 AR with a CLGS.  That's just asking for trouble.

Looking at their 18" upper, the gas system allows way too much dwell time as well.

For those talking about how great they cycle for you, your input is anecdotal, not comprehensive.

Show me how 10 of them hold up with thousands of rounds through each.

I bet CBC doesn't even know how that would work out, just like a lot of parts companies who are riding the coattails of the few companies that actually test.

I can tell you the machine work on the rails my neighbor ordered did not appear to even be tumble de-edged.  They were the sharpest rails I've ever felt.  Those rails that don't seem to serve a purpose back where the handguard adjoins the upper had extremely sharp corners.

If you click on that link at read the product description, note the weight:



US-made handguards are about half that.  I have one that looks just like it that is 7.6 oz, 12", ordered from site sponsor SKID Tactical.

Their 18" upper linked above had RIFLE gas, no?  How is that too much dwell time?

There is nothing rifle-length about that gas system:

IIRC they based it off the NSR style of rails, yet they screwed up on the weight. The Guntec rails from Skidtactical aren't a bad choice at all. Those are made in the U.S.

Parallax Tactical also makes a nice NSR style rail. If you are lucky blems can be picked up for $100.
Parallax Tactical FSSR
The picture near the top of the thread also looks like a knock off of these:



Both of these styles are made in the U.S./Lightweight.

I don't know about CBC's quality but their price after 30% is about what I can buy from other vendors, such as PSA frequently on sale, nothing attractive.

As far as the rail is concerned, I don't care where it's made for this particular rifle. I will be using this to deer hunt with. As long as it keeps my hand off the free floated barrel, it'll do.This rifle will see very little use. If I run 500 rounds through it in my lifetime, I'll be doing good.

So, for me..................does the 18" barrel and mid length gas system make a difference? Does the mid length gas system prefer a lighter or heavier bullet? Or does that even matter? Am I gonna have to get an adjustable gas block?

The 18" key mod in the pic above is what I ordered.

swampie

I'm using a 10" version of this hand guard on an AR pistol build.  I bought it on eBay for $69.99 shipped and it looks great and seems very solid


I don't know why people think you have to spend $200+ to get a good hand guard

Please post links for any other site that has a complete AR-10 uppers with the BCG and Charging Handle for less then $500 shipped?


We would all appreciate that info.

Racing to the bottom on price in the large frame ARs is a pit filled with heartache.

zia...you really should make a sad country western song out of that comment...LOL!

Oh...and I agree.

Doing your due diligence and buying a quality product on sale is just good stewardship of your money.

I stand corrected, good sir.  I was deceived by their words, and didn't look closely @ their pictures.

It looks like they have the wrong picture listed for the 15" hand guard version.

That version  has the 18" barrel with the 15" Hera  hand guard and does come with a rifle length gas system.

I bought the version with the 12" hand guard and the mid length gas system.


Do you guys always think the worst of new companies?

Actually I don't think you need to spend 200 bucks. The manufacturer of those $200 hand guard usually have blem sales that are 50% off. Usually a T-Mark is in the wrong location, or there is a minor blemish. Heck of a deal, but they only advertise it through facebook.

I've always advocated Matrix Aerospace (60-85 Dollars), Primary Arms (Usually on sale for $100), and UTG PRO Rails. (100-150)

Lightweight ,inexpensive, and made in the USA.

Most US makers use 6061 which is lighter then 7075 which is stronger then 6061.

Show me a PSA 300BLK upper for $250

As many times as the collective has been burned, yep.

Tells me right away that it was never tested, has little to no engineering behind it, and will be a malf-o-matic problem child.

Even the biggest names in the large frame AR market who have been around for decades have gone through all kinds of growing pains to get the carbines to work.

Daniel Defense has spent years doing the RDT&E on theirs, running fleet tests, pyramid tests, over 100,000 rounds across enough guns to get it to where they want it to be.

DPMS did the same thing with the GII, and it still has problems.

But I should rush out to buy the cheapest parts upper some no-name newcomer concocted and it will magically be GTG.

Me personally?  I start out extremely skeptical.

Even with proven companies that have earned the respect of some of the most trusted firearms abusers in the industry, I remain skeptical with every range session.

Everything fails.  It's just a matter of time and round count.

I place my dollars on the ones that last the longest, and have the best performance in other areas.

When I see what appears to be 12yr-old, nasty thick aluminum boat anchor handguards with high gloss anodizing, I run away from that company.

I first started seeing CBC mentioned as sale uppers from CDNN some time ago.  Others like AIM, etc. also sell their products.

I did some research then and of course found the Charleston, SC USA connection.  However, I swear I came across what appeared to be a reliable source indicating that CBC barrels and such were manufactured in South America...and Brazil specifically if I recall correctly.  

I cannot for the life of me find that info now.  I think it's clear that CBC Charleston doesn't manufacture anything.  Does anyone else have some definitive info on who actually manufactures their barrels and such?

Being manufactured in SA wouldn't necessarily indicate they are no good, but unless that manufacturer has a decent track record it should indicate buyer beware.

This is my quarrel. Nowhere on the site that i have found, does it mention origin of the parts. They don't make anything, simple resale other stuff.

I was under the impression they were Turkish or Czech. Lots of Europeans use them to mass produce stuff for very cheap.

If they're from South America, would most likely be Brazil. Again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if companies refuse to reveal this info, they're obviously ashamed or aware it will bring their sales down.

I don't give a damn if a company employs veterans. Just being a veteran doesn't make you a good person, good worker, or smart. I personally know too many piece of shit vets. Using your employee's veteran status as a marketing ploy is fucked up. What's more important is where the materials come from, and how they're made. Who makes them doesn't really matter. Unless it's China or some other Asian country.

Anyways, I've sent out am email requesting info on the origin of their parts. I'll post here if they ever respond.

None of my CBC / Hera ARs have "12yr-old, nasty thick aluminum boat anchor handguards with high gloss anodizing"

It would seem your basing your whole opinion on one hand guard your friend bought.

I have built 5 ARs from with CBC Uppers, all of them had the Hera Key Mod Hand Guards.

They all locked up tight to the lower receiver and they all went bang when I pulled the trigger.

When I buy a wrench, I normally just get the least expensive one that will do the job. I don't need the gold plated Snap-On with the life time warranty.

But to each his own.

The fact that they carry those handguards is not a good sign for an AR parts assembler in today's market.

It screams of cheap imports, with a focus on making margins at the expense of customers who don't know any better.

My approach to tools is a bit different.  I look for the best ones that have a proven track record, and try to find the best deal available.  Price comes after reputation.

I wouldn't expect much in terms of reliability from a .308 upper that only costs $500-$600, because I know the company has very little expertise invested in it.

When it comes to tools, i look for the best bang for the buck. I'm an electrician. I primarily by Klein tools because they're damn good, have a proven track record, and provide me with what i need. Versus what i want.

I use the same approach to firearms. If getting something simply "good enough to do the job", why would you ever stray from 22LR?

I want durability and reliability. Commercial Electric, Milwaukee, Greenlee, they don't have shit on klein tools except price. Maybe some bullshit handle that's feels a bit softer. Which also tears up alot faster.

What I've seen in my experiences, is people buy cheap tools because they don't plan on using them very much, if at all.

All hammers are not created equal.

Only wealthy men can afford cheap things.

Just because something is on sale it doesn't mean it's cheap.

And if you think CBC had a 30% off sale because they couldn't get rid of their product you would be wrong, About 75% of their assembled uppers are sold out.

The Hera Linear comps I got for 30% off their list price of $129 sold out in 2 days.  

CBC's Hera container cleared customs that Friday and they could have easily sold those comps for $150 and they would have still  sold out but they opted to include them and the other Hera parts in the sale.

If your asking how I know this it is because I have been pestering 3 different companies about those comps for weeks and each said the same thing "we're waiting on customs."


It doesn't take a rocket scientist to build an AR.  With todays specs you can easily build a great rifle at an affordable price.

If you think the big name companies manufacture all of their parts in house you have a lot to learn about ho big companies work.

That is neither feasible nor profitable.

I don't think anyone is saying that AR15's can't be built all day long at very reasonable prices with a myriad of choices in components...and have them work from good to excellent.

I think the problem and warning most are trying to drive home here is that without any milspec...or whatever label you want to describe it...AR10 standard, there is incident after incident reported on this forum about incompatibility issues between components and gas tuning.  It can be a problem with known, proven brands and using the "best" components.  

The big caliber AR platform can be a challenge for the best, and it's usually not a good plan to jump head long into an inexpensive, less known source...but hey...it could end up working like a Swiss watch in the end.

On your comment about "waiting on customs", I wish someone would have asked, "from where".  I'm just curious...not slamming an item just because of origin.  More knowledge about source would be good.

I'm glad you corrected yourself in the mil-spec comment since there aren't any military specs for these.

As for the customs comment I would assume that the Hera shipment they were waiting on came from Germany since Hera makes their parts in Germany.

I also assume from experience that it was actually Lanworld that was waiting for the shipment to clear since they are the authorized importer/US distributor for Hera parts

So I have been receiving daily emails for PSA and at least 1 a week has one of their 308 uppers that sell in the +$800 range goes on sale for less then $600

I have received emails for DPMS uppers and parts kits that could be put  together for aboubt 2/3s of their normal retail.

I even received and email for a discounted piston driven Ruger that was at least 30% off the normal low retail listed price.

I guess none of these were acceptable because they obviously have not been tested of proven worthy.

My upper has shipped. Will let you know what I think on first impression.

swampie

I received my upper today. It looks and feels nice. Seems to be solid. The gas tube is approx 11.5" long..........I don't know what that makes it. Was advertised as a rifle length. The hand guard is lite and comfortable to hold.....No sharp edges. It is a few thousandths shorter than the receiver rail but I've run into that with all of my other rails. The muzzle break adds about 1 3/4" to the total length. Bolt is slick and appears to be well made, just by looking at it. It'll be a while before I can get a lower built and test for function and accuracy.

swampie

I've purchased two Hera keymod rails (ar15 and ar10), as well as a gas tube with a block, and a 308 upper receiver. The finish on the receiver isn't great (bumpy and has that slippery feel of an old school, cast Bushmaster). Gas block is missing screws. AR10 rail barrel nut doesn't let the gas tube through when installed on their upper. I had to file the tube down slightly to avoid cant and extra friction with the gas key. Inserted partially in before tightening the barrel nut down. Neither rail lines up with the receiver. Had to file down dust cover pin for both rails. Keymod slots are slightly out of spec, as I've had a hell of a time putting BCM heat covers on (no issues on 2 other Keymod rails from various manufacturers). Keymod sections by MI, UTG, and Strike Industries install fine, however. I would say the quality is on par with UTG Pro, albeit no striped screws galore. This isn't Chinese ebay garbage but not MI or Geissele either. At 30% off, I feel like it was a fair deal, not a steal.

Correct.  The PSA and DPMS guns are known to have very high rates of failure.

I have no experience with the Rugers, so can't say.

In the .308 AR world, you really do get what you pay for.  One of the exceptions is ArmaLite DEF10, which is at a very low price point for the engineering and reliability that comes from decades of lessons-learned.  I know a lot of people are still in the mindset that parts are parts, but they aren't.

There is a laundry list so long concerning just source materials, that precious few manufacturers get right, let alone processes and treatments, and of course critical dimensions on top of that.  The assumption that if it is black and looks like an AR10, then it should be good to go, is a false one, just as it was with the AR15.

A lot of people got away with cranking out things that looked like AR15s, and many still do, but they are nothing of the kind.  After people started taking them through high volume courses, and contractors started sourcing guns for overseas work, the turds floated to the top quickly.  Much of the market responded by taking a closer look at the AR15/M16/M4 TDP and figuring out where the vismod guns fell short, and found that pretty much every part was not anywhere near the standard.

That hasn't happened yet with the AR10/.308 world.  The few military 7.62 NATO rifles in existence have gone through a lot of growing pains since the late 1980s, and companies like KAC have just barely reached a place where military customers are finally satisfied with reliability, not including the M110 Sniper System for general Army use, which has suffered several problems the SR25 never had.

I doubt most of the civilian market will respond, because very few people will ever shoot the rifles in volumes that will get the industry's attention.  Right now, companies know that they can get away with a non-tested/limited-tested product and sell them in volume because people will buy them.  They know they can deal with the back-end returns and still turn more profit than if they invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in the RDT&E necessary to make a reliable rifle, which includes pyramid and fleet testing.

The resultant FTFeed, FTExtract, Bolt Over Base, FTLock, incompatibility with stated compatible mags, early gas ring wear, early bolt lug wear, headspace issues, gas system issues, recoil system issues, LPK issues, and other critical part failures are evidence that these low price-point parts were never subjected to a worthy program like others have.

Daniel Defense is the opposite of this.  They actually spent years testing their guns, and came up with a lot of innovation to deal with problems that plague the AR10, early unlocking being one of the biggest ones.  As a result, they cost about $2900.

Only wealthy men can afford cheap things. Once you've spent a few trips to the range with one of the lemons, factor in gas time, ammo, range fees, colorful expletive inflation, tail tucked before wife quotient, and low self esteem corollary, you're better off crying once.

To me, it makes no sense to go shooting if the gun isn't going to work.  Might as well take the money and burn it in a can out on your driveway and at least warm your hands.

Range fees:  $5-$25 per trip
Ammo:  $$$
Gas:  $$
Time: $$$
Wife tucked tail syndrome: "How was your trip, dear?"  or even worse if she's with you:  "Why is it doing that?"
Low self esteem: "So, how's that franken-10 you built working out?"  "Uh, it's jamming."

Evidence?

My first LR-308 came with a bent/defective extractor from the factory, and I've seen many people over the years with the same problem.

It had extraction issues as a result of course.  Chamber was tight too, like what you would use on a bolt gun toward the tighter end of the spec even for them.

I lost track of how many threads are started here each week about DPMS and PSA .308s having issues.

There are guns that will work for a while, and some for even longer, but the bell curve has very wide margins.

Look in the PSA subforum over the past 18ish months