I'm planning on a hunting rifle, and looking at a 6.5CM or, based on reading this forum, 6.8.

The CM is a large frame gun, whereas the SPC is small frame. That's not an issue, in fact probably a plus to the 6.8.

I'm in NC, so long shots hunting shots are not exactly the norm, but never hurts to stretch it out if needed for fun, not in a stand but a range. Hunting is the#1 purpose, so LR is just for fun.

I'm building one 5.56 AR now, so this will be next for the upcoming season, hopefully.

I do not reload, so all will be factory ammo.at least for now.

Based on that, I'm leaning towards the 6.8, but don't want to rule out the CM if it's a better round for my area. Some traveling may happen, but in similar AOs, Va and AC, possible Tn.

Any ideas, or other thoughts? I haven't ruled out .308, .270, .300, or bolt guns, just trying to pin down some shopping lists for the gun for me.

You can catch fed 6.8 90 grain gold dots on sale for 10 a box..aint gonna do that with creedmor.
Oh yeah the grendel guys will be along shortly

What type of rifle do you want? Bolt gun or AR?

What kinds of animals and at what ranges?

White tail at about 100ish yards. ETA a semi LR shooter is not out of the question, but main purpose is to hunt deer with.

I was originally thinking a bolt, but had 2 other AR builds planned and could double up and 2 birds the second, which would give me more budget for the rifle. For this question I am asking strictly AR rifles.

My 6.8

6.8 is just fine on whitetail deer out to 300 yards, Though I have not killed anything over 125 yds.  The no name barrels are the best option.  I consider my rig an awesome dog hunting gun.

6.5 CREEDMOORE is going to be heavier, less mobile, but carry MUCH more whollop out to a bazillion yards.

6.8 for walking, dog hunting, truck gun.
6.5 creed for deer blind.

My PSA blaster barrel 6.8

< Caliber questions were specific - please do not introduce your caliber of choice - F >

I have both, the 6.8spc in a 16 inch AR and the 6.5 Creedmoor in a Ruger American Predator bolt action. Use them both for hunting. If I'm heading out where I'm pretty sure the max shot will be 350 yrds I take the 6.8, areas where the shots might be beyond that I take the CM.

< Caliber questions were specific - please do not introduce your caliber of choice - F >

Love my 6.8 AR and would have no qualms hunting whitetail out to 300 yds.

However, a 6.5 CM is a whole other class of power.  I have zero desire to have a bolt 6.8 or 6.5 Grendel.  To me those are AR sized platform calibers.

The 308 based 243, 6mm, 260, 6.5 CM are better choices for a bolt gun.

So if you stay semi auto go Grendel or 6.8 and either will work fine.  The Grendel will have better long range ballistics.

If you go bolt gun then you have more choices and all will have better long range ballistics than either of the smaller cartridges.

What handguard is that?

< Caliber questions were specific - please do not introduce your caliber of choice - F >

Go .308 and you can do everything you listed with one gun.  Plus, since you don't reload, it's far easier to find .308 than any other cartridge.

The OP did not ask about the Grendel. Why are you Grendel guys bringing it up?
Try to start another caliber war?

Correct I didn't, it's an unexplored caliber for me so the insight is welcome. Something I can look at, and the Grendel seems to work for the long range too.

It seems the Grendel would be a better choice than the CM, for more reasons than just costs and size.


It's on the list, but these are calibers I hadn't considered and, at least with the 6.8, it's on the small frame AR15 so just an upper swap until I build a dedicated lower (not an issue, but this way I can hunt sooner on an existing lower I have).

What's the best off the shelf ammo you've seen out of your rifle?

I know I am not the guy your asking, but for me in FACTORY AMMO 6.8spc the Double Tap 95gr TTSX's are best (IF YOU COMPLETELY CLEAN THE BARREL FIRST). Hornady 120gr SST is good too. SSA 90gr BSB group descent and are cheap.  Hornady 115gr HPBT is consistent, but not for hunting.

As far as AR platform, 6.5 Grendel vs 6.8 SPC - 6.8 is for FACTORY AMMO, but 6.5 Grendel is the superior cartridge (but you will most likely have to reload for it).

No reason for a 6.8 or 6.5 GRENDEL bolt gun as others have said.  6.5 Creedmoore is the latest miracle round, but semi options will be heavy AR10 based.  Creedmoor should favor long range bolt guns.  

If you want a semi auto go with 6.5 grendel or 6.8 spc.  For a 100 yard shot on deer there is no need for a AR10 and both those cartridges in ar15's will easily cover deer at 100 yards.  If you want a bolt gun or lever get a 308.  You don't reload and the 6.5 CM is going to be more expensive and harder to find.  If you had said ELK to 300 I would be on the 308 bandwagon but no need to carry the heavier gun.  One bolt gun that has intrigued me is the Howa mini action in 6.5 grendel.  Even with a 20" they weigh 5.5 pounds and are really compact.

At 100 yards you still have a threshold of 1000 foot pounds of force to deliver, that leaves a lot of smaller calibers on the table. I currently hunt with a 10.5" AR pistol because of that - plotting shots taken over 40 years on a public hunting parcel most were taken under 80m, which 5.56 can do from a short barrel,

Which goes to - what are long ranges for your application? One mans long range might be triple another's and the same cartridge isn't likely the answer.

Are shots across a 20 acre bean field going to happen? I have that opportunity at one hunting area but I've never seen deer cross it during daylight hours. Walking the field I find tracks but once it's harvested and the rut is on, deer don't come out into the open around here. They stick to the densest remaining cover until after dark.

Others have different experience with that - so, what do YOUR deer do and how far are the average long distance shots? Knowing that number, THEN you match the cartridge's ballistic application and it's pass/fail. It can either reach out or not.

All too many choose a cartridge based on word of mouth, marketing hype, and what passes as popularity then discover it wasn't really suitable. Far too many AR builders have chosen 6.5 and 6.8 in the past thinking that cheap plinking ammo is just around the corner - which is what they REALLY intended to shoot it for, berm blasting and making noise. At $17 a box it became obvious the thrill was gone after a few months.

I built a 6.8 for it's power under 300m as it is 50% more than 5.56. I built a 5.56 pistol for shooting $7 a box steel case and 70 gr OTM at short ranges. If you build your rifle, sure, you figure operating costs into it, but you still have to know your maximum potential range you might use it at - or accept a limit to enjoy another aspect.

What is the long range distance to hit a deer sized target leaving at least 1,000 foot pounds of force. That is your cartridge - and don't hang your hopes on any of the ones we mentioned. RANGE is a serious matter and not knowing really means not knowing what is going on when you take it out.

All the rounds we mentioned can take elk past 500m in expert hands, do you want to chance that trophy when a better cartridge would reduce the risk? That is the kind of thinking that goes into cartridge selection, and for all that, the older ones always have a better track record than New! and Improved!

Oh for Pete's sake... AR10 form factor rifles in CM can weigh as little as 8.5 lbs.  Just as easy to carry as AR15's....

I know you're not stupid.

He asked about 2 calibers, one of which doesn't fit in an AR15 frame, and then mentioned using an AR. So a 6.5 cartridge that fits an AR was suggested. You don't have to play victim, we know #6.8livesmatter.

2A Armament balios lite, super nice stuff.

I've only ever shot 123gr sst ammo, I'm in the beginnings of finding a handload it likes now.

As well you know if I mention the 6.8 in a thread involving the 6.5G the 6.5 clan screams bloody murder.
Just remember that it works both ways sir.

May I ask why? High pressure, other reason? Curious.

Well that took a bit of an unexpected turn.

Forest, thanks for cleaning up the other comments, in this case I didn't mind them so much as it helped with exploring other options, but I didn't want it to start a caliber war. (Luckily the isn't handgun and 9vs 45!)

I've reconned the big box stores, and there is zero 6.5G, there is a good bit of one the Hornaday 6.5CM, which is out because of the small AR15 frame and size issues, and less 6.8. I wish there was more available in store, but found an old thread that has a nice long list of commercial available ammo (and save brass and pennies for reloading!)

I've done lots of reading and comparing, and I think out of the 3 the Grendel is the best choice, especially with the small frame AR. If it was the 10 as well, then I would look at.308, but that's just not possible in the 15.

With wanting to shoot some LR helps sway the decision, and the ability to still take game at greater distance, or more energy for possible bigger game (not thinking that elephants are going to walk through the NC woods, but more confidence to take bigger deer and maybe bears if needed or wanted).

I'm reading this thread about commercial ammo and seeing what is out there for plinking, hunting, and LR shooting.

Both are awesome rounds.

6.8 SPC
It was developed to produce extreme wounds in human sized targets from an AR15 sized gun at intermediate ranges. It just happens that deer are human sized targets and it makes a great deer round.
The 6.8 SPC has many bullets designed specifically for use in the 6.8 SPC and the velocities it operates at.


6.5 CM
It will require a larger frame gun which will be much heavier. I build an Aero M5 AR10 in 7mm08.
It will carry much more energy on target than the 6.8 SPC for sure.  

For the Grendel, would any standard upper receiver work or a special Grendel upper unit?

Clarification the upper receiver itself, not an assembled barreled upper.

Should work fine with any standard AR-15 pattern upper.

I have a 6.8 and a 6.5G.
I do want a 6.5 CM as well.
The 6.8 will always have a home.
Its my go to for everything.

Oh. You want a Creedmoor you say?

Only difference is the bolt and barrel.

The copper monolith TTSX's, GMX, E tips all foul the bore different from copper jacketed lead ammo.  If you start with a barrel that's fouled for jacketed ammo, then fire TTSX's the more solid TTSX will be pushing the jacketed ammos fouling out in front of the bullet.  Expect 6 moa POI shifts when this happens.  Fire enough copper and you can sort of clean out the jacketed fouling, but the best thing would be a good cleaning session before switching.

If you have a barrel fouled for the copper monoliths, then you might suffer similar consequences when you go back to jacketed, but I have not personally observed such.

Copper monoliths seem to foul to the point of loosing accuracy faster than regular bullets too.  A good scrubbing/copper cutter fixes this.

If you want to use TTSX's, just dedicate that barrel to nothing but them.  If that sounds ludicrous to you, just stick to standard bullets or clean/decopper the barrel every time you switch each directions.

My apologies for getting off topic, but all calibers listed have copper monolith bullet options.  Also, I have only played with TTSX's, but assume GMX and E tips would act similar.

Wow. Never knew. Thanks for that info

That is what I was thinking, but reading up on the stuff seeing Grendel specific parts that are more than just bolt and barrel.

That is what I was thinking, but reading up on the stuff seeing Grendel specific parts that are more than just bolt and barrel.

Well, and a magazine.

Nope, like the other guy said, they have their own mags, but in the rifle it's just barrel and bolt.

Good, I was figuring it was either marking (or marketing) just to the one caliber and it makes no difference.

Have an upper just ordered from EE, Lower already on the way. Lower build kit is favorited just want to verify stocks and then barrel, bolt, block, forend, and gas tube. And mags and boolits.

Then to decide glass.

I don't know if this one and the other posts that have been edited like this were civil or not, but if someone has another alternative that would fit the OPs use case the it is a valid point to add to the discussion as long as they are being civil.

I don't want trolls around here as much as anybody else, but I feel the speech control around here sometimes gets borderline gestapo-ish.

All the censored messages were civil and informative.  They were in abeyance of the policies posted at the top of the forum. Ironically, the only non-civil posts on the thread are still there.

While I understand why the policy was instituted, it does seem draconian. The OP in this thread openly welcomed the insights offered by the "other" caliber. It just seems a shame that a policy of this type is put in place because a small hand full of members can't seem to play nice.  It deprives the OP of potentially beneficial information.

Rather than limit which calibers can be discussed in a given thread in the AR VARIANTS forum, why not simply temporarily (or permanently) censor the people who can't seem to adhere to the general terms of the COC where it applies to civil discourse?

Have to question the information in this response. Initially when Barnes brought out the X-Bullet there were fouling issues with them, Barnes and other monolithic bullet manufacturers have constantly made changes to the gilding metal alloys used for monolithic bullets to eliminate what you're talking about. In my experience with monolithic bullets any point of impact shift was due to the change in bullet, not copper fouling. The biggest takeaway from your response is Clean Your Bore !!!!!! Butch's Boreshine, Shooter's Choice, Hoppe's Benchrest and Hoppe's No.9 all contain copper removers and take care of this issue. The biggest thing is again clean your barrel, if your barrel is fouling that bad you may have a rough barrel and a little JB' Bore Compound would help, but in the end Clean Your Barrel. Shoot whatever bullet design you like, but Clean Your Barrel. You're making Monolithics sound like a problem and they aren't. Bullet technology has advanced Light Years over the past thirty years, enjoy the advances and don't worry about a problem that isn't there.

I agree wholeheartedly. In this instance, the other caliber fits the bill perfectly, except for not being on the shelf lol. If there are members who can't play nice, or a thread that could spiral out of control, it's worth a watch but I don't think it warrants censorship for lack of a better word.

I've been a mod on other forums and understand both sides, I just see this one instance as a bit premature.

Forest, not saying you were wrong, just my opinion is all. I know the work that goes into modding a forum and I do appreciate what y'all do.

For glass, remembering that this is a hunting rifle first, what do y'all think about the Bushnell elite series? Would love a 3-12x50, but they have either a 3-9 or 4-16 in the 3500 series, the 6500 has a 2.5-16, but more tactical than needed. I think the 3500 would be great for this, and I know me as a shooter isn't ready for the 1k yard shots anyway.

Looking at the AA barrel and bolt.
JP adj gas block
Will need a 9\16 muzzle device
Gas tube (other than length, a gas tube is a gas tube, correct?)
Handguard

Other than the normal stuffs, what would you add?

You've got the essentials.  Depending on your preferences, get a few quality mags.  For 4 to 14 round capacity, ASC and AR-Stoner mags work well.  For greater capacity (15+)  E-Landers are available in 10, 17 and 24 round sizes, but they can be a bit tough to find in stock.  

When you assemble your upper, consider lapping the upper receiver to ensure a square fit with the barrel and extension. This will potentially aide in accuracy and avoid issues with bolt to extension alignment (keeps all the lugs in even contact with the extension).  

It's has nothing to do with a certain caliber. It has to do with a manufacturer that came here and created shill posts trying to push his products without being a site sponsor. So the mods don't want to generate traffic for them, so any mention of that company is edited. Nothing wrong with that.

box - the shill thing is a different subject and issue.  I'm describing the rules of this forum which state:

"CALIBER ARGUMENTS: All threads created to discuss a specific caliber are not to be disrupted. This means that if a members asks a question about round X, members are to keep their responses on topic, and not share their opinion on why round Y is better. If a thread is created to discuss multiple calibers, or to compare calibers, then those calibers may be discussed or debated. If the OP shifts the discussion to different calibers, then those may be discussed as well."

It is this rule which many members seem to feel conflicted about.  It ostensibly prevents the 6.x wars from re-igniting here, but also keeps relevant information from being discussed. It is this particular rule which another member was attempting to remind you of, earlier in the thread.

Oh I see, I was mistaken. I thought it was about the shilling. I was unaware of the rule you just posted, thanks for sharing.

Now I'm in agreeance with you. Seems excessive.

What kind of budget are you looking at for the scope?

I've had good luck so far with the ASC 25 round magazines.  I haven't tried anything else yet.  I went for the Govnah two hole gas block, and tuned one port for suppressed and one for unsuppressed.  It is incredibly smooth shooting, although I should probably open up the suppressed setting a little (doesn't lock back consistently with the wolf steel cased ammo).

(deleted) - never mind, not tech related.