step 1.  bore gas port holes out....

step 2. win.

It sounds like a few people are. I would keep the VEPR for now

...only if accompanied by 3 hours of video talking about doing it, before doing it. otherwise, why bother.

That is exactly what happened to mine.  UPS delivered the gun Monday.  I might get rid of it after it is repaired.

Better pictures of the failure.. They are sending me a replacement part for the bolt.  Will install and run again, but yeah I'm really leaning towards being done with this platform altogether.

I'd everyone just gave up on new designs, we wouldn't have shit today. Maybe seeing these failures wom get them to redesign it, use better materials, etc.

Still a decent concept, just needs the bugs worked out. Bugs won't go away of people ditch the system after the first few hiccups.

Pretty much with any new design, it's up to the end users to figure out the real bugs. Massive beta testing by the customers is what it truly takes.

It is more than just bugs. The level of attention to detail un the quality is lacking and incosistent. It looks deeper than a bug, but overall manufavturing standards.

The company should be doing their own testing.  Not selling something with MSRP over a thousand dollars to customers and letting them be the guinea pigs.

That's what EVERYONE does.

Sure, you can pull a few samples, run them through rigorous testing, but that won't find the bugs in the system unless you test 1000 rifles/shotguns, or even more. MFGs can't do that type of testing, AND give us a costly product.

I really like this concept, and have been watching this thread. Obviously, if it goes far beyond mere bugs and material selection, no amount of beta testing will fix a crappy overseas company and their turds.

All i was trying to say, was give it a little more time. Maybe, just maybe, they will figure it out and make it good across the board. If not, shit can it is, and back to waiting for another AR10 style shotgun.

Loooolz! Maybe we could get "king of random" to do it, then we would have some good commentary and sensible good quality work.

Exactly. Now the gun is kinda sloppily made (based on my handling at 3 diff gun shows) and not really worthy of the price, but any given ar-10 anything is kinda expensive, let alone a new system.  Should it perform better? Sure, but I'm not gonna poop on it, I'm gonna fix it... Just nuts bolts n drill bits people.

Loooolz! Maybe we could get "king of random" to do it, then we would have some good commentary and sensible good quality work.

I really had high hopes for this shotgun.

A SBS XTR-12 was what I was hoping for.


So much potential.

I like the design much better than the MKA1919 and others that have been out there.

If they can get their shit together I will own one.

Read over on BE that they are on multiple generation versions already (don't know if true or not but possibly they are listening to feedback)


Will keep an eye on them.

Yep that edge distance (wall thickness?) Is definitely too thin. Deeeerp!  They need to redesign that...

Has the guy with problem gun requested a replacement gun?

10 rd mags available now, supposedly

After seeing the results I think I will pass on the XTR-12 for now. I had a Vepr12 that was problematic and I dont want another gun that will cost double in order to get it to run right. I had hope for this one I really want a good running AR style shotgun that will run everything from the walmart cheap to high brass. I'll keep waiting and looking

Does it run yet? No. Family is going to be gone for a bit and that is usually when I do the most interesting things, like venturing outside of the small box of what everyone else does. In the limited time I have spent with this, I realize that the issues with this platform run very deep. After I get this as it should be I will measure and document all of the changes and reach out to UTAS to see if they would like to negotiate for the details of exactly what needs to change to make it a winner. If not, I can definitely make that information work for me $ There is a ton of potential here, but I'm confident there is no one at UTAS who knows what to do about all of the bugs. That shit would have been handled by now if there was, just saying. I have spoken to a couple of them and they know how to assemble it and replace parts, but a real understanding of the weapon and what it needs ends there. What we are getting stateside is not exactly how it was originally designed. The original design was flawed and what was done stateside to attempt to make it run as it should was flawed as well, cheap tricks, if you will. They were focused in the wrong area and whoever recommended the stateside changes doesn't know as much as they would like to think they do. If anyone from UTAS is reading this, I'm not trying to bash or be a dick, but I call things like I see it and that is exactly how I see it. I want to move this platform forward as overall it makes more sense than the MKA1919. It simply needs an unusual accomplishment

I have been picking at this and it has yet changed a bit since this pic (BAD short throw selector, Raptor CH), but this is what an 8" looks like. It has been at 8" for months, but I have been too busy working to immerse myself in it again and make it run. Before anyone asks, this one is already sold as soon as it is 100% finished and able to be legally transferred. There is a lot more to making these run as an SBS than gas work, I guarantee that. Hopefully, my next post will have some impressive video in it. If so, 2017 will be on fire. I won't be replying to any inquiries about this as I am very busy, but I'll leave this here...

Feed lips, gas system length/port diameter, buffer weight?

I mention my vepr12 and low and behold the amazing guy that got it running as a SBS posts. Thanks again for your work on it. It runs great.

That looks really fun.  Were you able to fix whatever was falling apart inside the bolt?

Sent my rifle back to UTAS in Des Plaines, IL for the second time, this time to tackle to failed bolt component issue.  Technician says they designed a previous bolt that doesn't use the flimsy spring-hinged piece at the 6 o'clock position.  Not sure if he'll actually install it or not though.  Will report back once I've received the rifle.

Here's another video I shot - spoiler alert - it's not impressive :-(

https://youtu.be/82RSAy0kEtA

Not a plug, but Genesis Arms is going to be shipping their 12 gauge upper assembly this quarter of 2017. They already sell the complete shotgun, but it's pricey as all hell (at least by my standards).

It works with a standard 308 (DPMS pattern) lower (2 3/4" and 3" shells).

This may be the droids that we are looking for (waves hand).

Yeah, Genesis wants $2300 for their shotgun.  And their website has zero other products.  I'd feel a lot better buying from a bigger company who will probably still be around in a few years.  With only 1 product and that high of a price tag, Genesis may become Exodus and leave you owning an expensive turd and no place for replacement parts.

On the plus side, the spare mags are only $20.  Not like the other box fed shotguns with $50-80 magazines.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82RSAy0kEtA[/youtube]

I'm having the same failure to eject issues with my XTR. I've put about 200 shells through it with a 5-10% failure rate (Hornady Z max 12 ga; 00 buck;  2 3/4"; 1600 fps) and approx 20 shells with 1350 fps(can't remember brand) 10-20% failure rate. I called UTAS and talked with a tech, he advise that the Z-max shells might be sticking to the bolt face caused by the higher pressure and advidd me to test the gun with the type of ammunition they use (Testing ammo: Winchester AA Super-Handicap Heavy Target Load - Specs: 12ga; 2 3/4"; 1250 fps; 1 1/8 oz; 7 1/2 shot). The gun ranges here on Oahu are few and far between, they only allow you to shoot with the ammo bought at there facility or only a certain type of ammo (Slugs). Has anyone tested there gun using their test ammo? Not sure what to do with mine, it's a lot of fun to shoot when it runs right. Has anyone come up with a fix for this?

Also spoke to one of their techs, Frank, and he said the exact same thing about their testing ammo type.  Picked up a 25-rd box, and will try it this weekend.  Expecting my rifle back from UTAS this Wednesday. They did several fixes to the weapon including the bolt head, charging handle and ejector.

Have to post the actual link to the image, not to the page.

Saw the titanium color one (or whatever it is called) in a local shop yesterday. It sure looks nice.... $1100, IIRC.

Tempted, if I knew it would work. I don't even care if I have to shoot specific ammo, as long as it readily available and not too expensive.

I took ownership of my new XTR 12 Cerakote Titanium on January 21, 2017. I brought it home, assembled it and charged it twice; first charge was simply pulling the charging handle back, bringing the bolt/carrier back and releasing and the second time I pulled the charging handle back again and locked it back.  No issue yet. I inserted my 5-round empty mag and hit the paddle button releasing the bolt/carrier and noticed it didn't quite go all the way into the chamber area. I figured maybe things were just a little stiff so I grabbed the charging handle to pull the bolt back again and it did not pull the bolt/carrier back. I opened the gun to find out that the end of the charging handle that grabs the bolt and pulls back had broke off. I own an AR-15 and an AR-10 already and have never seen this problem before. I called UTAS and they said they haven't seen this issue either. They have sent me another charging handle and now after reading this forum and all the issues everyone else is having has me a bit concerned and wondering if I should have held out longer, saved up more pennies and bought the Fostech Origin. I was wondering if my AR-10 charging handle would fit the XTR 12 so I pulled it out of my DPMS and just did a visual comparison and they look identical EXCEPT for one small difference. The very end where it actually grabs the bolt/carrier has an extra nipple/dimple that protrudes down and I'm just not willing to chance it. I guess I'm bewildered as to why the end of the XTR 12 charging handle would snap off/break off/ sheer off so easily and what caused it. Any ideas, suggestions or advice is greatly welcome. I'm not a gun expert, but I do love the little darlings. I cling to them as well as my bible!

I'm no expert.  You have more experience with these shotguns than I do.  But my guess for what caused it would be poor engineering and cost-cutting on materials.  They've had problems with the bolt and now charging handle falling apart.  If it were me, I'd try to return or sell it while it still has that new gun smell and let somebody else worry about it.  Then join the rest of us again eagerly waiting for a kickass AR-10 12ga.

Ah.. Thanks!
http://i.imgur.com/5qTqP3f.jpg

I've seen a lot of promising things about the Fostech Origin 12 and that thing "appears" to be a beauty with the engineers doing their homework and not rushing things to the consumer.

Well my problem is with the charging handle lower tip that goes between the bolt gears on top, breaking off.  I called the company and they shipped me a new charging handle.  Well, after a week and a half I finally get the highly coveted package on my front door only to unwrap it and find out it is not a charging handle, but what appears to be some kind of choke tube (small stainless steel tube about 2 inches long with some threads).  CRAP, what is going on with this UTAS company?  I'm beginning to feel that dark shroud of buyer's remorse slowly cover my thoughts about this purchase.

Agreed, the Fostech does look like a well thought out and thoroughly tested weapon, but then again the price tag is almost $2,500!

If you like space Marine shotguns... I it wasn't so fugly I'd be down

The price tag kills it for me but its a beautiful gun.

I got my XTR12 back after 2 months at UTAS for a repair. I immediately sold it and just purchased a Vepr 12.

Mine came back last week with the same piece at 6 o'clock, just not a broken one.

Mine arrived back after being repaired for the second time at UTAS.  Fired just five shells of UTAS's recommended ammo - Winchester AA Target Load Super-Handicap 2-3/4" 7.5 shot - and had 3 of 5 failures!
UTAS is now sending me a brand new replacement XTR-12, since the cash refund option would be a bit tricky as I originally purchased it through a 3rd party distributor, but I plan to sell the new gun off immediately once it's delivered to me.

How much for the utas

I bought one it looks like someone spray painted with a spray can. The finish was awful and the reviews even worse. I sent it back and Im hoping for a refund. The folks at UTAS are very accommodating and their customer service is excellent but what does that really matter if you have keep sending the shotgun back for multiple repairs. In any case here's hoping they get their act together.

I wouldnt put that Winchester low brass crap in my fully converted Saiga. Its terrible and semi auto shotguns dont like it. It looks as though you keep using the worst shotgun ammo and then getting FTE's perhaps you should post something about using regular (no reduced recoil) 00 buck or slugs. Its not much of a review if you use the worst ammo.....

I think our goal is to find a AR style shotgun that will run on cheap Walmart federal low brass or high brass. So far the UTAS is about like the others

Is the ammo the reason the bolt is falling apart?  I'd hope that putting some cheap ammo would maybe make the gun not cycle.  It shouldn't cause it to take a dump and require a new bolt.

The same piece on my bolt broke TWICE while using Federal Power*Shok Magnum 3" slugs - 1600 FPS.  I believe the buffer spring and buffer are just too light for this high power stuff, thus the high energy literally degrades, and eventually breaks, that weak piece at the 6 o'clock position of the bolt head.

Just got mine back from UTAS for the THIRD time, and going to do another video this weekend with several shell types, including UTAS's famed Winchester Super-Handicap 7-1/2 birdshot - 1250 FPS that they say "always works in their test trials".

If it fails again I would dump the gun on the EE or try  Armslist. When you get the video up let us know by posting a link.

New Videos firing UTAS's recommended ammunition:

Pro Gun?

ETA: That deformation was from the round being jammed into the top of the chamber on its way in from the magazine.

Oh well