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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:19:41 PM EDT
[#1]
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this should be a sticky . well said. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In Utah, for big game ( we include deer as big game here because they are very large mule deer), there are minimum energy requirements for hunting with pistols, but not rifles. For rifles being used to take big game, the only stipulations are that they must be centerfire, and use an expanding bullet. For pistols on big game, they must be .24 caliber or larger, use expanding bullets, and retain 500ft lbs of energy at 100yds. I think a 300 BLK is fine for medium game, especially with some of the projectile selection that is out there. 7.62x39 has been used for decades to hunt deer and pigs with, and nobody cried about it. To the contrary, a lot of hunters said, "Finally, I have something substantial.", even though .223 Rem with the right bullet kills medium game all day long within 200yds. I think as gun guys, we get wrapped around the axle with our pet calibers, and start to think that our choice is valid, whereas others are somehow not valid, and get into these excrement matches that don't help out any of us. Meanwhile, Inuit tribes are blasting moose with .222 Remington's and bringing home meat, while we run a circular firing squad on the internet. this should be a sticky . well said. I agree. I could throw in Momentum vs KE argument concerning pistols & subsonic rounds.. That would start things in a different direction. But, for what ends? As for; Why a 16"? No tax stamp required. More velocity/energy, also, pretty standard hunting barrel length too. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 6:23:13 AM EDT
[#2]
This is the info I was looking for. I will do some research on this as I do not reload.
This begs the question of practice vs. Hunting. The holy grail would appear to be something you can practice AND hunt with without major) shift in optics. I plan on using an aimpoint, would be nice to not have to adjust based on which load I am using... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Im a big fan of outlaw state 225 grain expanding subs . Im no forensic expert but they fubar what ever I shoot and that is all the data I need . they are not cheap but I dont plink with them either . I have found they are real close in trajectory to the 225 grain hornady match so that is how I roll practice with the hornady and hunt with the outlaw state . my personal limit is 100 yds for subs . Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I am now waiting on a 300 black upper, 12 inch. I plan on running it suppressed 95 percent of the time or more. What say the experts on a good all-around self defense and or hunting round? It would appear that the subsonics don't expand properly with the exception of the Lehigh projectile and maybe the 208 grain amax. in an ideal world, I won't have to make continual adjustments to my optic based on changing ammo types frequently. Would all be inside 100-150Y. I would love to find a subsonic that would fit the bill. Im a big fan of outlaw state 225 grain expanding subs . Im no forensic expert but they fubar what ever I shoot and that is all the data I need . they are not cheap but I dont plink with them either . I have found they are real close in trajectory to the 225 grain hornady match so that is how I roll practice with the hornady and hunt with the outlaw state . my personal limit is 100 yds for subs . |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 8:12:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Im watching this thread also, as in our state also 223 is a no go for deer, so looking at just building a 16" upper to slap on when needed.
Anyways...carry on.. 
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Posted: 1/27/2015 5:03:59 PM EDT
[#4]
I am planning on putting together a 10.5" that will use supers most of the time to hunt but ability to can on for fun w/ subs.
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Posted: 1/27/2015 9:37:21 PM EDT
[#5]
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You have no idea what you are talking about. I just love it when the people who have never fired or hunted with the 300BLK come and tell those who have how bad it is at hunting. First the 300BLK was designed as a supersonic 30 cal rifle that was able to run subsonics as well. Second your so twisted that you can't even read a chart right. It shows that the 300BLK out of a 10 inch barrel is 1,153 ft-lbs and 1,403 ft-lbs if you bump it up to a 16 inch barrel not 892 ft-lbs like you posted. Third looking at the Hornady Ballistics chart it shows your precious 6.8 only pushing 1,328 ft-lbs at 100 yards and 877 ft-lbs at 300 yards for a similar equipped 110 gr bullet out of a 16 inch barrel. But I am sure you will tell us how wrong hornady chart is and how much faster you could actually push the bullet if you handloaded it and went outside of the SAAMI pressure specs. Fourth and the best of your moronic theory of what the 300BLK can and can't do falls by the wayside when it has been a proven deer killer by those who have shot the thousands of deer with the 300BLK and had no problem dropping them where they stand. So, please don't come on these threads and spam your 6.8 drivel when in reality the 300BLK will do everything the 6.8 will do within 300 yards just as well or better and not need any specialty mags and bolts. Just another point at how ignorant your post is when saying that the hunting bullets specifically made for the 300BLK won't expand. Because I don't know of anyone using plinking ammunition in either the 6.8 or the 300BLK when it comes to hunting. The many bullets specifically made for the 300BLK like the Barnes 110gr Black tips will fully expand to over a half an inch (a lot more expansion that what the 6.8 can do) out to 300 yards and penetrate 20 inches of ballistics gel at that range making it more than capable of taking any deer out to 300 yards. Do you think we are all hunting with Mil Surplus tracers or 168gr pulls that won't expand? I guess you do since you seem to know so little about the 300BLK yet you have the audacity to post on it. I think Mark Twain put it best when talking about people like you: It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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300blk does one thing well, suppressed subsonic. It was designed for that purpose. It is superb in that roll. 300blk is not and never will be a proper medium game hunting round. It is better than 5.56, yes. However, it cannot reach expansion velocity for the .30 cal hunting bullets typically loaded. Thr ttsx loads that are about all I would dream of shooting a deer with from a BO are 1.50ea. Hardly a cheap round but not insane I suppose. Combine that with a short barrel and you will have a deer wounder. Look at that chart above. You want to hit a deer with at least 1000ft/lbs to reliably kill it. If we trust the above chart, which I think is quite hot.... a 10" barrel with that bullet will have the round at 892ft/lbs at 100yards. For comparison, a 120gr sst fired from a 6.8 spcII with a moderate load will hold 1000ft/lbs past 300 yards easily. I wont fan boy the 6.8 either... the grendel can do it too. Both of these are proper hunting loads for an ar15 platform. You can even shorten the barrel and still maintain 1000ft/lbs well within your estimated range. I dont think you will be happy with this gun as a hunting rig. It will make you smile at the range with the can.... no doubt about that... but you will be greatly disappointed when you try to shoot a deer. Especially a big Wisconsin buck. Dont be deceived into the belief "it's a .30 cal and .30s kill deer". Or that its just like a 30-30... its not. It never will be. The 300 has its niche, its not in the Wisconsin deer stand. You have no idea what you are talking about. I just love it when the people who have never fired or hunted with the 300BLK come and tell those who have how bad it is at hunting. First the 300BLK was designed as a supersonic 30 cal rifle that was able to run subsonics as well. Second your so twisted that you can't even read a chart right. It shows that the 300BLK out of a 10 inch barrel is 1,153 ft-lbs and 1,403 ft-lbs if you bump it up to a 16 inch barrel not 892 ft-lbs like you posted. Third looking at the Hornady Ballistics chart it shows your precious 6.8 only pushing 1,328 ft-lbs at 100 yards and 877 ft-lbs at 300 yards for a similar equipped 110 gr bullet out of a 16 inch barrel. But I am sure you will tell us how wrong hornady chart is and how much faster you could actually push the bullet if you handloaded it and went outside of the SAAMI pressure specs. Fourth and the best of your moronic theory of what the 300BLK can and can't do falls by the wayside when it has been a proven deer killer by those who have shot the thousands of deer with the 300BLK and had no problem dropping them where they stand. So, please don't come on these threads and spam your 6.8 drivel when in reality the 300BLK will do everything the 6.8 will do within 300 yards just as well or better and not need any specialty mags and bolts. Just another point at how ignorant your post is when saying that the hunting bullets specifically made for the 300BLK won't expand. Because I don't know of anyone using plinking ammunition in either the 6.8 or the 300BLK when it comes to hunting. The many bullets specifically made for the 300BLK like the Barnes 110gr Black tips will fully expand to over a half an inch (a lot more expansion that what the 6.8 can do) out to 300 yards and penetrate 20 inches of ballistics gel at that range making it more than capable of taking any deer out to 300 yards. Do you think we are all hunting with Mil Surplus tracers or 168gr pulls that won't expand? I guess you do since you seem to know so little about the 300BLK yet you have the audacity to post on it. I think Mark Twain put it best when talking about people like you: It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. "Specialty subsonic cycling rounds in 5.56mm tend to be very expensive and reliability can be spotty. These issues were of primary importance in the design of the 300 AAC Blackout round." From AAC's website under suppressor faq's... You think they'd know. |
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