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Posted: 12/18/2014 9:24:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CETME,HK94,PTR91,M1A1 = battle rifle DPMS and other AR 10 clones= sniper rifles However the LMT 308 variant like the ones they make for the British Army = battle rifle Later Joh n What makes the AR10 (and variants) exclusively a "sniper rifle"? |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:20:13 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've handled my dad's FAL, and while I like its nostalgia, it's outdated. The SCAR does everything better, and it's lighter. Weight is a huge deal to me, as I like to shoot it off-hand, and it's the only one I can comfortably shoot. I don't understand the price difference where you're at, though. That sucks. Thanks, I appreciate your feedback. But if it's just for the weight:
Approxinative 1 lbs is not that much difference in weight IMHO, no? And what exactly is outdated? How it operates? Materials? Ergonomics? Less accuracy? Less reliable? To be honest I don't get it. In switzerland we pay more for everything. Food, cars, rents, clothes, and arms. But I guess the average income is a bit higher then in the US too, therefore it's relativ. But in relation to european guns like SIG, HK, Glock, Steyer, etc. we pay more for US guns. Just a bit if they come over a offical sales channel / distributor, like the US SIG. But if the firearm dealers import guns themselfs like for FN, because there's no distributor for FN uSA in switzerland, then it get's pricy. And since Obama changes the export laws it's even harder. Even to order aftermarket parts like a handguard is a mess. If the price is over 100$ you have to follow the sames process for the export, as for a real weapon. That sucks! Bye |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:52:37 AM EDT
[#3]
Oh man, with more money (or less wife) I would get this one: http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1726/0120m.jpg
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:57:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hi all You made my day. Hope I will be once able to make a photo like this. Even for that price? Why you rate it as superiour to the others? More reliable, more accurate? To me at least the stock feels flimsy. Have a nice day. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hi all Quoted:
One of these, would work for me. http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/ag1/bradwd/2_zps449b5482.jpg You made my day. Hope I will be once able to make a photo like this. Quoted:
Meh, still SCAR. Even for that price? Why you rate it as superiour to the others? More reliable, more accurate? To me at least the stock feels flimsy. Have a nice day. I own a SCAR 17 and I agree with you FreaddyK. No way in hell is the SCAR worth 5000$ |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 1:00:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of those on your list, the only ones I would take to a gunfight on purpose are the FALs and the HK. I love M-14s too, but the Springfield Armory Inc. M1A is not an M-14. Lots of corners have been cut from the mil specs. Non chrome lined barrel, cast receiver, non GI spec extractor, etc. It is pretty much to the M-14 like a Del-Ton or other cheap AR is to the M-4 carbine. If you could get a higher quality M-14 variant, like a LRB, Fulton, 7.62 Arms, or James River, that platform would be in contention too. The SCAR is legit too. You say you don't like its skinny 16" barrel, but you apparently don't have too much problem with the FAL and M-14's pencil profile 22" barrels. Never mind the fact that many people have gotten MOA or better accuracy out of the SCAR with good ammo. I actually prefer a pencil profile barrel on a battle rifle. You would understand why if you ever did something like the Pawnee Run 'n Gun (10K running course with shooting stations along the way, www.okrunngun.com) with one of these rifles. In a "SHTF" scenario, you can expect to spend a lot more time carrying the rifle than shooting it... and for the typical ranges and target sizes, you don't need sub MOA accuracy. 4 MOA or better is all you really need, which any rifle on your list is capable of. What part of it's 5000 do you all not get? No way in hell I'd pay that much for it. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 3:27:58 PM EDT
[#6]
The cheapest Scar 17s which is actually listed on a swiss website cost 5300.- swiss francs, which is 5461.103 USD with the current exchange rate. And I guess when they bought it the dollar was even lower.
How much did you pay? |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 3:56:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The cheapest Scar 17s which is actually listed on a swiss website cost 5300.- swiss francs, which is 5461.103 USD with the current exchange rate. And I guess when they bought it the dollar was even lower. How much did you pay?  ) If I do my part I can get 1.5 MOA out of the gun using 168gr BTHP. My SCAR  |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:05:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's crazy, mine was less than half of that. The SCAR is an awesome weapon system, but at $5,400 that's crazy and I would find other options. That being said, prices being equal, the SCAR is head and shoulders over M1A's, STG58's, G3's. Modularity, reliability, and accuracy. I was banging 12 in gongs during a nighttime shoot at 400yds with ease with my setup on the clock (targets were partially illuminated, I'm not god ) If I do my part I can get 1.5 MOA out of the gun using 168gr BTHP.
My SCAR <a href="http://s199.photobucket.com/user/liquidsniper420/media/SCAR1_zpsa118ada5.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa161/liquidsniper420/SCAR1_zpsa118ada5.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The cheapest Scar 17s which is actually listed on a swiss website cost 5300.- swiss francs, which is 5461.103 USD with the current exchange rate. And I guess when they bought it the dollar was even lower. How much did you pay? ) If I do my part I can get 1.5 MOA out of the gun using 168gr BTHP.
My SCAR <a href="http://s199.photobucket.com/user/liquidsniper420/media/SCAR1_zpsa118ada5.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa161/liquidsniper420/SCAR1_zpsa118ada5.jpg</a> Yeah for the half of the price it would be on the list. Sad because FN Herstal is european. But the SCAR seems only to availabe from FN USA. I would really like to see a comparison between the SCAR 17 and the SIG SG 751 SAPR. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:08:32 PM EDT
[#9]
It seems like James Yeager likes the DPMS GII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLETg9oFbac
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:22:29 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It seems like James Yaeger likes the DPMS GII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLETg9oFbac  |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:35:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I fucking hate it then
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It seems like James Yaeger likes the DPMS GII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLETg9oFbac
Oh, ok?! I only know him from youtube vids. I thought he has a good reputation in the US gun community? |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 6:02:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It seems like James Yeager likes the DPMS GII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLETg9oFbac Haven't had a chance to watch those videos yet, but if he likes it that's saying something since he normally wouldn't even use any of the AR10 variants to wipe his ass with... |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 6:07:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, ok?! I only know him from youtube vids. I thought he has a good reputation in the US gun community? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It seems like James Yaeger likes the DPMS GII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLETg9oFbac Oh, ok?! I only know him from youtube vids. I thought he has a good reputation in the US gun community? That being said, it sounds like an AR10 with SR25 pattern mags is the way to go for you. Buy a base rifle and then start buying bits and parts for upgrading it. However, I am not too sure what you can and can't buy over there and is easily available. No experience whatsoever with the Sig but they look cool. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 7:48:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It seems like James Yeager likes the DPMS GII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLETg9oFbac I like mine. Just over 400 rounds of surplus ball through it with no issues. I'll put another 200 through it this weekend. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:25:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryThat's true, and by no means I would say that the G3 isn't a very nice gun. But from what I've heard, out of the box it's the least accurate and because of the blowback system you get a lot of gas and all the stuff in the weapon. And harder recoil than the others on my list. But all this is not from personal experience. And for me personally, I prefer that the bolt stays open after the last round. Have a nice day. It's true. The G3 is a very good weapon but it is also a BRUTE. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:29:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's true. The G3 is a very good weapon but it is also a BRUTE. Specially with the meat tenderizer, collapsible stock. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:32:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, ok?! I only know him from youtube vids. I thought he has a good reputation in the US gun community? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It seems like James Yaeger likes the DPMS GII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLETg9oFbac Oh, ok?! I only know him from youtube vids. I thought he has a good reputation in the US gun community? Sam, no, he is largely regarded as a fraud here in the U.S. It's a long story, but it is wise NOT to consider him or his opinion. You have a very decent list compiled. Considering you live in Switzerland, your best choices are the guns that you could easily support logistically. Those would be the guns from SIG, HK or FN. The FAL is the most trustworthy if you get a well made one. H and K G3, as discussed. It IS a brute of a gun....BUT they are well regarded, also. I don't know a lot about the newer SIG guns...and the SCAR seems VERY expensive over there. I'd personally go with one of the SIG rifles if I was in your shoes, as I am not a fan of the FAL for ergonomic reasons..but that is STRICTLY personal. FALs are GOOD guns. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:33:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Specially with the meat tenderizer, collapsible stock. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's true. The G3 is a very good weapon but it is also a BRUTE. Specially with the meat tenderizer, collapsible stock. I am already ugly enough...I don't need any help!!! |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:09:01 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Hi all ... I'm about to by an rifle in 7.62/51. Main focus is not sport it's for SHTF. .. Sam FAL. Cheap to acquire from the prices you had listed, and it is a serious battle rifle. Whatever weapon you finally decide on, I would recommend buy basic spare parts (parts that you can lose or break - springs, firing pin, extractor, etc..) |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 11:19:41 AM EDT
[#20]
I agree with desertmoon, you really need to look at parts support for a SHTF "defensive carbine".
All of the rifles discussed can serve well wether it is an old design FN FAL or a new SCAR. In reality they all use 100+ year old technology to launch a bullet (brass, gunpowder, bullet) han't changed. That being said, I like the DPMS GII. Cheers 
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Posted: 12/20/2014 11:21:02 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FAL. Cheap to acquire from the prices you had listed, and it is a serious battle rifle. Whatever weapon you finally decide on, I would recommend buy basic spare parts (parts that you can lose or break - springs, firing pin, extractor, etc..) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hi all ... I'm about to by an rifle in 7.62/51. Main focus is not sport it's for SHTF. .. Sam FAL. Cheap to acquire from the prices you had listed, and it is a serious battle rifle. Whatever weapon you finally decide on, I would recommend buy basic spare parts (parts that you can lose or break - springs, firing pin, extractor, etc..) Yes I guess I will take a FAL. Still not sure if I take the old and used Stg 58 or a new from DSA, which is unfortunately much more expensive for me, because the import to switzerland almost doubles the price. But I like the look of the Para versions. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 11:32:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with desertmoon, you really need to look at parts support for a SHTF "defensive carbine". All of the rifles discussed can serve well wether it is an old design FN FAL or a new SCAR. In reality they all use 100+ year old technology to launch a bullet (brass, gunpowder, bullet) han't changed. That being said, I like the DPMS GII. Cheers True, and for that reason, I have to stick with european produced rifles, or if from USA that only if there is an official distributor like for SIG USA. But FN USA, or DPMS could lead to problems if something breaks. AR-15 with milspec parts is less an issue, but AR-10 seems a bit risky. 90% l'll take the FAL or 10% the HK MR308. Normaly as I suiss I should get the SG 751, but till now I have zero feedback and it seems like nobody owns one. And even if the 55x series are famous I don't know if a rifle on the base of a SG 55x in 308 will still be as good. Thanks guys for your opinions! |
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Posted: 12/21/2014 10:52:05 AM EDT
[#23]
i will add that i live 15 minutes from dsa where they manufacture there rifles.those gus pay huge attention to detail and manufacture a really great rifle.its a shame you live in a foreign land because you could walk into there retail store and get what you want for around 1500 bucks.
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Posted: 12/21/2014 1:20:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
its a shame you live in a foreign land because you could walk into there retail store and get what you want for around 1500 bucks. Ohh man, don't tell me such kind of things. 
I really would like to own one. Even for 2000$ it would be a no brainer. But I have to add around 1500$ just for the import and stuff. And after that I have no warranty cause I will not be able to send it to DSA in case of issues. |
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Posted: 12/21/2014 6:00:43 PM EDT
[#25]
I can't wait to get my hands on a M&P-10.
SP |
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Posted: 12/21/2014 6:23:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't wait to get my hands on a M&P-10. SP Hi May I ask why? From the specs and reviews it doesn't seems to be something special. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 1:08:19 PM EDT
[#27]
From the specks it will keep up with or exceed the rest but is half the weight. It also uses the pmags.
The down side some of the inner parts are proprietary. SP Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hi May I ask why? From the specs and reviews it doesn't seems to be something special. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I can't wait to get my hands on a M&P-10. SP Hi May I ask why? From the specs and reviews it doesn't seems to be something special. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 4:44:36 PM EDT
[#28]
I actually like the SCAR-H in the battle rifle role, but I'm not a huge proponent of the battle rifle concept itself because of the caliber, especially when you can get it done with more efficient intermediate cartridges, with 50% of the recoil, less pressure, lighter/shoter guns, and more ammunition capacity. The 6.5 Grendel in the AR15 works a lot better than 7.62 NATO in the AR10 or AR16. 7.62 NATO is more than what it needs to be, not very efficient, and reduces what round count you can carry. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 5:45:14 PM EDT
[#29]
I assume these photos are of you........awesome, and thank you for your service.
So, you are saying that you would prefer the 5.56 over the 7.62 (308) in a general battlefield role? Senerio............you travel, lets say 1500 miles one way, in the USA (from Baltimore to Houston), all the time, for work.............. so you have your GHB, gasmask, etc...............would you chose the 5.56 or 308 for your vehicle/Get Home battle rifle. I know the pro's and con's...........average range yet much more ammo for the 5.56, double the range and less ammo for the AR10 type. Thanks for your thoughts. SP Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://i.imgur.com/Bh6rQ.jpg http://earth66.com/img/A-Ranger-with-the-75th-sights-in-his-SR-25-sniper-rifle-during-marksmanship-training-at-a-range-in-Balkh-province-Afghanistan-Jan-20-2014.jpg http://www.americanspecialops.com/images/photos/special-forces/special-forces-scar-rifle-hr.jpg I actually like the SCAR-H in the battle rifle role, but I'm not a huge proponent of the battle rifle concept itself because of the caliber, especially when you can get it done with more efficient intermediate cartridges, with 50% of the recoil, less pressure, lighter/shoter guns, and more ammunition capacity. The 6.5 Grendel in the AR15 works a lot better than 7.62 NATO in the AR10 or AR16. 7.62 NATO is more than what it needs to be, not very efficient, and reduces what round count you can carry. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 5:50:44 PM EDT
[#30]
No, none of those pictures are me. Just was pointing out what guys use who have an actual choice in the matter, with a pretty broad range of choices of 7.62 NATO battle rifles. If I were to post pics of me deployed with a battle rifle, it would be the M14, but that's all we had as an option, and that was in a semi auto sniper role.
I've also seen the same guys using G3's with mods back in the day, but not recently. For a car gun, the SCAR-17 with 13" barrel would be good if I was limited to 7.62 NATO as an option. 5.56 NATO would handle most of the contingencies as well, and I would choose the 70gr TSX load for busting cars, and 77gr Mk.262 for distance. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 5:56:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Thanks.
My choices are Stag AR15, M&P-10, or a Saiga 308, and the Saiga really is not a choice. So it is the Stag or the MP. The Stag shoots flawlessly. I am just kind of concerned about range and terrain. And I guess I am highjacking this thread, so I will stop right here. Sorry OP. SP Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, none of those pictures are me. Just was pointing out what guys use who have an actual choice in the matter, with a pretty broad range of choices of 7.62 NATO battle rifles. If I were to post pics of me deployed with a battle rifle, it would be the M14, but that's all we had as an option, and that was in a semi auto sniper role. I've also seen the same guys using G3's with mods back in the day, but not recently. For a car gun, the SCAR-17 with 13" barrel would be good if I was limited to 7.62 NATO as an option. 5.56 NATO would handle most of the contingencies as well, and I would choose the 70gr TSX load for busting cars, and 77gr Mk.262 for distance. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 7:23:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://earth66.com/img/A-Ranger-with-the-75th-sights-in-his-SR-25-sniper-rifle-during-marksmanship-training-at-a-range-in-Balkh-province-Afghanistan-Jan-20-2014.jpg http://www.americanspecialops.com/images/photos/special-forces/special-forces-scar-rifle-hr.jpg I actually like the SCAR-H in the battle rifle role, but I'm not a huge proponent of the battle rifle concept itself because of the caliber, especially when you can get it done with more efficient intermediate cartridges, with 50% of the recoil, less pressure, lighter/shoter guns, and more ammunition capacity. The 6.5 Grendel in the AR15 works a lot better than 7.62 NATO in the AR10 or AR16. 7.62 NATO is more than what it needs to be, not very efficient, and reduces what round count you can carry. Till now I never saw a 6.5 rifle here in Switzerland. Besides .223 and 7.62x39 (which is already rare) some in .300 whisper and 1 or 2 in 6.8 spc. Same for the ammo. Never saw where to buy 6.5 here. Only shells for reloading, and they are extremely expensive. Hope this will change in the future, because it is a really effective cartridge. But till now, not an option. Between 5.56, .300, 7.62x39, 6.8 spc and .308, I choose the .308. I already own an AR-15 in 5.56 (even when it is more a sporting then a service rifle from STI). And even if I know that .308 is heavier, and has more recoil, at the end it hits harder then the other 4. After a .308 rifle I want to buy a 7.62x39. I think a CZ VZ 58. Then we will see. If I can sell my AR-15, I guess I will buy another AR. But this will be difficult. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 7:24:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And I guess I am highjacking this thread, so I will stop right here. Sorry OP. SP No problem. Interesting to me too. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 10:20:35 PM EDT
[#34]
I have limited experience with a few of your choices, but the HK is hands down number one on that list, in my opinion.
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Posted: 12/23/2014 12:34:19 AM EDT
[#35]
Sorry I forgot this was the thread with the limitations in the OP.
I actually consider Switzerland to be probably one of the finest countries when it comes to making an awesome battle rifle, namely the SIG510. Get one of those and don't look back. 
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Posted: 12/23/2014 5:23:51 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have limited experience with a few of your choices, but the HK is hands down number one on that list, in my opinion. It's indeed a very nice rifle, that's why it's on my list ;-). But worth that much more? Can't say. Mags are a bit pricy too. |
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Posted: 12/23/2014 5:29:19 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry I forgot this was the thread with the limitations in the OP. I actually consider Switzerland to be probably one of the finest countries when it comes to making an awesome battle rifle, namely the SIG510. Get one of those and don't look back. http://www.gunscollecting.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/sig-510-4-amt-intero-copia.jpg Sure, but this one is realy outdated, isn't it? At least regarding the weight. 12 lbs unloaded. I mean that one is heavy. I know a gunsmith who convert them to a short barrel commando version. Nice lightshow ;-) You can get a cheap one over here. At least not the ATM version you've showed. They are expensive. |
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Posted: 12/23/2014 1:49:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure, but this one is realy outdated, isn't it? At least regarding the weight. 12 lbs unloaded. I mean that one is heavy. I know a gunsmith who convert them to a short barrel commando version. Nice lightshow ;-) You can get a cheap one over here. At least not the ATM version you've showed. They are expensive. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sorry I forgot this was the thread with the limitations in the OP. I actually consider Switzerland to be probably one of the finest countries when it comes to making an awesome battle rifle, namely the SIG510. Get one of those and don't look back. http://www.gunscollecting.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/sig-510-4-amt-intero-copia.jpg Sure, but this one is realy outdated, isn't it? At least regarding the weight. 12 lbs unloaded. I mean that one is heavy. I know a gunsmith who convert them to a short barrel commando version. Nice lightshow ;-) You can get a cheap one over here. At least not the ATM version you've showed. They are expensive. I own an SIG AMT/510. It would be very hard to find one with the grenade launching barrel shown as almost all were converted to the slim non grenade launching barrel. Also mine is nowhere near 12 pounds. It weight about 9+ pounds. My SIG PE 57 the semi auto version go the STG 57 is close to 12 pounds. |
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Posted: 12/23/2014 1:55:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is. One easy way to look at it are to look at the results of the M110 trials. Compare how KAC did to how well the DMPS entry did. In my experience DPMS can build REALLY accurate rifles, but reliability - especially when dirty - has not been up there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Myself I'm skeptical that there really is such a huge difference in quality between it and some of the other choices, There is. One easy way to look at it are to look at the results of the M110 trials. Compare how KAC did to how well the DMPS entry did. In my experience DPMS can build REALLY accurate rifles, but reliability - especially when dirty - has not been up there. Yes the GEN I DPMS SASS did very well in the trial I believe the finished 2nd to KAC and batter than Armalite's entry. But it's very heavy compared to the KAC. I own one and it's a beast to lug around but have never had any problems with it at all. Then again I don't drag it through the mud.. |
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Posted: 12/23/2014 5:03:11 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 12/25/2014 10:54:14 AM EDT
[#41]
SCAR again. You like that thing a lot ;-)
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Posted: 12/25/2014 1:11:10 PM EDT
[#42]
I thought I was the only one still rocking the 'hawk! Everyone is going all caveman now days. I don't get it.
Since no one else has the balls to say it, I will. Saiga .308 for the win. Slap a bullpup mod on it, ditch the AK style irons and put a decent holographic sight or an acog on it and you have one mean rifle. A 21.5 inch barrel, shorter than an M4, .308 bullpup with 20 and 25 round mags available. Spent $750 total on mine back before the sanctions. Without an optic of course. |
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Posted: 12/25/2014 2:10:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SCAR again. You like that thing a lot ;-) I can't say too much because I don't even own one (yet), but it's next on my list. Even at $2,500 though, it's a lot of money. |
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Posted: 12/25/2014 3:59:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since no one else has the balls to say it, I will. Saiga .308 for the win. Slap a bullpup mod on it, ditch the AK style irons and put a decent holographic sight or an acog on it and you have one mean rifle. A 21.5 inch barrel, shorter than an M4, .308 bullpup with 20 and 25 round mags available. Spent $750 total on mine back before the sanctions. Without an optic of course. I have em ;-) A .308 AK is on my list. Not a Saiga, but the Molot Vepr. But they're not easy to get. The Saiga in .308 is maybe available for around 1200.- $ over here. And a bullpup kit for it I would have to import myself which means it will cost the double as you've payed. So I might end up in the 2 grand price range. The 2nd hand Stg 58 / FAL i will pay 1400.- $, but there I will add some pieces to, so at the end it will by 2000.- $ too. But I'm not familiar with bullpups. Never shot one. Had once a Kel-Tec RFB in my hands. I guess it need time to be fast with mag changes. What about the RFB? It's in 308 to. But cost about 2900.- $ here. |
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Posted: 12/26/2014 12:05:27 AM EDT
[#45]
Do you have access to Knights Armament over there?
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Posted: 12/26/2014 12:22:04 AM EDT
[#46]
I weighed this very question, not too long ago.
I went with DI instead of piston. If it's truly a battle rifle, DI parts will be easier to come across, verses all the propriety piston systems with multiple parts. YMMV |
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Posted: 12/26/2014 10:38:56 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have access to Knights Armament over there? Not official, but I could import from the US, if I'm willing to pay a lot. Why? The KAC SR-25? Even the US price is unreal. |
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Posted: 12/26/2014 12:07:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Saiga,....................I have one set up, but have never shot it over 100 yrds. It does ok, and is fun to shoot, BUT...........................
I understand that the 21 inch barrel is prone to barrel whip with successive shots...............making it less accurate than the shorter barrels. The AR10's and clones not so much. What say ye? SP Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have em ;-) A .308 AK is on my list. Not a Saiga, but the Molot Vepr. But they're not easy to get. The Saiga in .308 is maybe available for around 1200.- $ over here. And a bullpup kit for it I would have to import myself which means it will cost the double as you've payed. So I might end up in the 2 grand price range. The 2nd hand Stg 58 / FAL i will pay 1400.- $, but there I will add some pieces to, so at the end it will by 2000.- $ too. But I'm not familiar with bullpups. Never shot one. Had once a Kel-Tec RFB in my hands. I guess it need time to be fast with mag changes. What about the RFB? It's in 308 to. But cost about 2900.- $ here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Since no one else has the balls to say it, I will. Saiga .308 for the win. Slap a bullpup mod on it, ditch the AK style irons and put a decent holographic sight or an acog on it and you have one mean rifle. A 21.5 inch barrel, shorter than an M4, .308 bullpup with 20 and 25 round mags available. Spent $750 total on mine back before the sanctions. Without an optic of course. I have em ;-) A .308 AK is on my list. Not a Saiga, but the Molot Vepr. But they're not easy to get. The Saiga in .308 is maybe available for around 1200.- $ over here. And a bullpup kit for it I would have to import myself which means it will cost the double as you've payed. So I might end up in the 2 grand price range. The 2nd hand Stg 58 / FAL i will pay 1400.- $, but there I will add some pieces to, so at the end it will by 2000.- $ too. But I'm not familiar with bullpups. Never shot one. Had once a Kel-Tec RFB in my hands. I guess it need time to be fast with mag changes. What about the RFB? It's in 308 to. But cost about 2900.- $ here. |
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Posted: 12/26/2014 12:09:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe so. I figured he would respond with reasoning on why to specifically exclude the SCAR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The SCAR to me really seems like the most credible "modern" battle rifle for a reasonable price. But the OP has removed them from the options - possibly because they can't get them in Switzerland? Maybe so. I figured he would respond with reasoning on why to specifically exclude the SCAR. he lists the sig 716 Patrol at $2500, so i guess a SCAR 17, if available, would be about $4K. |
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Posted: 12/26/2014 1:17:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Also, to add to the thread........................
the ammo http://how-i-did-it.org/762vs308/chamber.htmlhttp://how-i-did-it.org/762vs308/chamber.html |
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