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Posted: 10/29/2014 8:00:49 PM EDT
New guy, kind of. HI!
I read the forum rules, and also the FAQs, and also read the first few pages of this forum and I am reading through a VERY long thread on the 6.5 PCC.

So, I'm looking at this cartridge as a multipurpose round. Coyote, groundhog, deer, bump in the night.  Most deer would be less than 100 yards. But on occasion 200yds to 300yds.  I would like to have a capable gun and cartridge.
 Is there anything about these I haven't considered?  Same magazine capacity. The 300 might have more authority up close. The 6.5 might reach out farther. The 300 would be better with a suppressor, which I don't use.

I'm just looking for opinions, thanks.
Link Posted: 10/29/2014 8:15:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Well, for one thing 300 Blackout ammo can be purchased, but not 6.5 PCC because it is a wildcat. Do you reload? Second 300 blackout is primarily a subsonic round designed for use with suppressors, but does fine out to 250 yards on game with supersonic ammo. The PCC will reach out further, but you probably will never see someone trying to shoot subsonic with it. Time will tell. I like the 300 BO, and have 3, but I like the .264 bullets and would jump on the PCC once it begins to have more established reloading data. Really the 6.5 PCC is in its infancy, but I like what I see so far.
Link Posted: 10/29/2014 8:30:19 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Well, for one thing 300 Blackout ammo can be purchased, but not 6.5 PCC because it is a wildcat. Do you reload? Second 300 blackout is primarily a subsonic round designed for use with suppressors, but does fine out to 250 yards on game with supersonic ammo. The PCC will reach out further, but you probably will never see someone trying to shoot subsonic with it. Time will tell. I like the 300 BO, and have 3, but I like the .264 bullets and would jump on the PCC once it begins to have more established reloading data. Really the 6.5 PCC is in its infancy, but I like what I see so far.
View Quote


I'm definitely a reloader. Though there is definitely a difference between choosing not to buy factory ammo, and not having that option at all.

I do have 2 receivers sitting here and I've been considering making one the 6.5 and the other the 300. But I really have a preference for less overlap if I can do the job with 1 gun instead of 2.
Link Posted: 10/29/2014 10:25:38 PM EDT
[#3]
I see you want one rifle to do them all. the 6.5PCC would fit the bill. Two other more mainline AR cartridges options are the 6.5 Grendel & the 6.8 SPC II.. Both will take care of what you need & ammo/brass is more available.
The choice is yours.
Link Posted: 10/29/2014 11:52:29 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
I see you want one rifle to do them all. the 6.5PCC would fit the bill. Two other more mainline AR cartridges options are the 6.5 Grendel & the 6.8 SPC II.. Both will take care of what you need & ammo/brass is more available.
The choice is yours.
View Quote


The reason I was moving away from those two was because of increased recoil impulse and decreased magazine capacity. Everything is a trade off. Personal choice.
Link Posted: 10/30/2014 1:32:37 AM EDT
[#5]
There  area a few guys out there that are using the 6.5mm PCC round in a Pistol/SBR/Suppressor role, hopefully, they will give us there Input
and field results  in the near future and we will get it posted here on this forum...

We have had smaller ammo manufacturers offer us loaded ammo deals for the masses but not at the prices we were comfortable with...

Hopefully, we will also have a Independent Shooting/Hunting article published on the 6.5mm PCC round very soon...Once it is ready by
the publisher we will post it here with a link...

As to the .300 Blk round it serves it purpose wonderfully in a SBR/Suppressed role and as a short/medium distance rifle/carbine for hunting...

The 6.5mm PCC will have the advantage in a supersonic hunting/target role at distances out to 600 meters (longest that it has been field tested),
and has a maximum of around 1,800 foot pounds of muzzle energy with the longer barrel lengths and can surpass 3,000 fps. with the lighter 85 gr.
loads...and thus surpasses the .300 Blk in those areas...

Both are lost cost rounds to produce (for the re-loader) since they are based off the .223 Rem/5.56mm NATO parent case, with the 6.5mm PCC
needing much less trimming versus the .300 Blk...

Thanks and good luck.
Link Posted: 10/30/2014 12:26:51 PM EDT
[#6]
I wouldn't be shy of the recoil difference between the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC compared to 5.56.  I have a 16" CAR handguard 6.5 Grendel and I notice I'm just slightly slower on double taps with the 6.5 Grendel and my similar 5.56 with CAR handguard.  If I handed you my 16" 6.5 Grendel and had you shoot it not knowing it was not 5.56 you might not notice the difference.  Your right, you do have a slight disadvantage on ammo capacity but instead of 30 rounds of 5.56 you have 25 6.5 Grendel.  I have had good luck with ASC magazines and 44mag.com have reasonable prices for 6.5 Grendel or 6,8 SPC mags.  I like the availability of factory ammo compared to Wilcats even though I shoot mostly reloaded ammo.

The 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel are both very versatile and produce sufficient step up in performance to warrant owning either.
Link Posted: 10/30/2014 1:41:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 10/30/2014 8:22:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Odd. From what I am reading the 6.5PCC has a velocity advantage over the 300blk for similar bullet weights. That can't be right. The larger bullet diameter should reduce pressure and allow greater speed. I'm willing to bet I am not finding info for like compared to like.
Does anybody have an apples to apples to comparison?
Link Posted: 10/30/2014 11:10:01 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
Odd. From what I am reading the 6.5PCC has a velocity advantage over the 300blk for similar bullet weights. That can't be right. The larger bullet diameter should reduce pressure and allow greater speed. I'm willing to bet I am not finding info for like compared to like.
Does anybody have an apples to apples to comparison?
View Quote


6.5PCC has a significant case capacity advantage; 33grs vs 25grs????

6.5whisper vs 300BO would be the comparison you were thinking of.
Link Posted: 10/30/2014 11:17:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Maybe different barrel lengths used for the loads you're comparing?  I may be mistaken, but I thought 16" barrels are often used for testing .300 Blackout loads, while it seems longer barrels are common in 6.5 PCC.
Link Posted: 10/30/2014 11:35:40 PM EDT
[#11]
The 6.5mm PCC will max out @ 32-33 grains of water using fire-formed cases, as a example a Hornady 120 gr. A-Max (.465 G1 BC)
will max out @ around 2,500 fps out of a 20" or longer Bbl.

A  .300 Blk with a 110 gr. Barnes TTSX with a 20" Bbl. will Max out somewhere around  2,490 fps. (.295 G1 BC). Typical case capacity
runs between 24-25.5 grains of water using non fire-formed cases...

Hope this helps...
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 7:59:50 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The 6.5mm PCC will max out @ 32-33 grains of water using fire-formed cases, as a example a Hornady 120 gr. A-Max (.465 G1 BC)
will max out @ around 2,500 fps out of a 20" or longer Bbl.

A  .300 Blk with a 110 gr. Barnes TTSX with a 20" Bbl. will Max out somewhere around  2,490 fps. (.295 G1 BC). Typical case capacity
runs between 24-25.5 grains of water using non fire-formed cases...

Hope this helps...
View Quote


Yeah, it helps. I didn't know the .300BLK has a smaller case capacity.  I guess it is the bigger bullet has to be set farther in the case which eats up case capicity.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 8:41:49 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:


Yeah, it helps. I didn't know the .300BLK has a smaller case capacity.  I guess it is the bigger bullet has to be set farther in the case which eats up case capicity.

Thanks.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The 6.5mm PCC will max out @ 32-33 grains of water using fire-formed cases, as a example a Hornady 120 gr. A-Max (.465 G1 BC)
will max out @ around 2,500 fps out of a 20" or longer Bbl.

A  .300 Blk with a 110 gr. Barnes TTSX with a 20" Bbl. will Max out somewhere around  2,490 fps. (.295 G1 BC). Typical case capacity
runs between 24-25.5 grains of water using non fire-formed cases...

Hope this helps...


Yeah, it helps. I didn't know the .300BLK has a smaller case capacity.  I guess it is the bigger bullet has to be set farther in the case which eats up case capicity.

Thanks.




The 6.5mm pills also take up a lot of case capacity as well as they are usually long for caliber, which is why the tend to have great BC's and SD's, and thus can
be very friendly to longer range capabilities and tend to penetrate very well also as a result...I have taken Whitetail Bucks with 100 Meter plus shots and have
had complete pass through's with each one broadside, exit holes with expanding pills have been Impressive...

Projectile diameters ranging from 6mm to 7mm have Impressive capabilities in the AR platform, this is especially true for the 6.5mm & 6.8mm class as they posses
all the necessary qualities needed for Hunting, Target and in some cases Tactical uses as well. This is in part due to the shorter projectile designs developed for the
6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC rounds...

Honorable mention should also go to the 6mm/.243 & 6.35mm/.257 class as well as they also have very good capabilities when they are able to run within certain
velocity envelopes...

The 7mm/.284 class was designed to run with much higher/velocity/ capacity/larger cases and are more difficult to run in the AR-15 platform when wildcatted as
they too tend to be long for caliber, and are better suited for the AR-10/AR-308 platform...

Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 9:16:56 AM EDT
[#14]
I keep going back and forth on this. It's fortunate I can start putting together parts before I've made the final decision.

My shooting would be almost exclusively short range. But I have killed deer here at 300 yards. And a bullet that will kill at 300 yards will do just fine at 20 yards.
It would bother me a lot if I came across a wounded at 300 yards and I could do nothing about it because the cartridge is not up to the task. Same with coyotes. Advantage to 6.5 over 300.

The fact that the 300 is established and I can buy loaded ammo is very attractive. And I suppose it is possible I would like to quiet it down in the future for shooting coyotes.  Advantage 300 over 6.5.

Both  have advantages over the .556 which I want, without giving up magazine capacity or increasing recoil to the point it will slow down follow shots. I'm starting to get sick of trying to make this decision.
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 9:46:46 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
I keep going back and forth on this. It's fortunate I can start putting together parts before I've made the final decision.

My shooting would be almost exclusively short range. But I have killed deer here at 300 yards. And a bullet that will kill at 300 yards will do just fine at 20 yards.
It would bother me a lot if I came across a wounded at 300 yards and I could do nothing about it because the cartridge is not up to the task. Same with coyotes. Advantage to 6.5 over 300.

The fact that the 300 is established and I can buy loaded ammo is very attractive. And I suppose it is possible I would like to quiet it down in the future for shooting coyotes.  Advantage 300 over 6.5.

Both  have advantages over the .556 which I want, without giving up magazine capacity or increasing recoil to the point it will slow down follow shots. I'm starting to get sick of trying to make this decision.
View Quote


there is one more round you can look at, it is a new round that is showing a lot of promise it already has 2 ammo producers with more coming and mark is an awesome guy to deal with.

I am talking about the 277 wolverine, i have an 18 inch and it is a shooter, fun easy to make ammo for runs the 85gn-110gn 270/6.8 bullets. check out this thread 277 wolverine

you can also check out his forum   http://mdws.forumchitchat.com/

all it takes is a barrel change. it runs in standard 556 mags.






here it is compared to other rounds
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 10:20:23 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
I keep going back and forth on this. It's fortunate I can start putting together parts before I've made the final decision.

My shooting would be almost exclusively short range. But I have killed deer here at 300 yards. And a bullet that will kill at 300 yards will do just fine at 20 yards.
It would bother me a lot if I came across a wounded at 300 yards and I could do nothing about it because the cartridge is not up to the task. Same with coyotes. Advantage to 6.5 over 300.

The fact that the 300 is established and I can buy loaded ammo is very attractive. And I suppose it is possible I would like to quiet it down in the future for shooting coyotes.  Advantage 300 over 6.5.

Both  have advantages over the .556 which I want, without giving up magazine capacity or increasing recoil to the point it will slow down follow shots. I'm starting to get sick of trying to make this decision.
View Quote




Email sent out to you...Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/31/2014 11:16:05 PM EDT
[#17]
I hate to toss another one in here, but the 358 MGP is looking awesome as well. The ability to use lightweight pistol bullets, or up to heavy rifle bullets with the power of a 358 Winchester has got me drooling. Conversion take a new barrel, and a 6.8 bolt. This is a 6.8 wildcat much like the 300 blackout but bigger. Forming brass is much the same as well. This will be my next build before I get a 6.5 PCC just because I already have a 6.5 Grendel in the stable.
Link Posted: 11/1/2014 12:47:15 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:


The reason I was moving away from those two was because of increased recoil impulse and decreased magazine capacity. Everything is a trade off. Personal choice.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I see you want one rifle to do them all. the 6.5PCC would fit the bill. Two other more mainline AR cartridges options are the 6.5 Grendel & the 6.8 SPC II.. Both will take care of what you need & ammo/brass is more available.
The choice is yours.


The reason I was moving away from those two was because of increased recoil impulse and decreased magazine capacity. Everything is a trade off. Personal choice.


consider .277 wolverine or 25-45 sharps.  Both use standard magazines w/o mods, both are 5.56 brass based.  Both now have factory ammo, though only one soure for teh 25 and a couple sources for the .277 wolverine.    Both loaded offering ahve just come to market in the last couple months.  

.277 is a bit more powerful than 300 BO w/ better BCs & SDs.  IMO a better AR variant unless you really have a hard on for subsonic bullets.  

25-45 sharps has no reductino in case capacity, just a straight neck up w/ no shoulder bump or residing or trimming!!!.  and their factory ammo is supposed to be doing 3k fps from a 20" barrel w/ an 87 g bullet!  Drawback to the chambeirng is that the sharps factroy ammo is sort of pricey and the bullet selection is extremely limited, just a few bullets w/ short ogives.  Nosler is supposed to be making them a special profile accubond.  We'll see.
Link Posted: 11/1/2014 12:49:31 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:


Yeah, it helps. I didn't know the .300BLK has a smaller case capacity.  I guess it is the bigger bullet has to be set farther in the case which eats up case capicity.

Thanks.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The 6.5mm PCC will max out @ 32-33 grains of water using fire-formed cases, as a example a Hornady 120 gr. A-Max (.465 G1 BC)
will max out @ around 2,500 fps out of a 20" or longer Bbl.

A  .300 Blk with a 110 gr. Barnes TTSX with a 20" Bbl. will Max out somewhere around  2,490 fps. (.295 G1 BC). Typical case capacity
runs between 24-25.5 grains of water using non fire-formed cases...

Hope this helps...


Yeah, it helps. I didn't know the .300BLK has a smaller case capacity.  I guess it is the bigger bullet has to be set farther in the case which eats up case capicity.

Thanks.


right, but its not jsut that the bullet is set back in there, the case is trimmed shroter, from 45 to 35mm long.
Link Posted: 11/1/2014 12:54:02 AM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
I'm starting to get sick of trying to make this decision.
View Quote



lol, i feel you.  same boat.

300 BO is def not a 300 yard humane kill cartridge.  wait, what barrel length?  BO might do 300 yards on small deer w/ TSX if its from a 16" barrel, not a 9'' though probably.  

I think the PCC is probably the only 556 brass based variant that could humanely kill med game at 300 yards, maybe that 25-45 sharps, but that 87 g  hot core bullet is a shitty BC IIRC.

IMO, best set up for a  reloader w/ lots of 5.56 brass would be a SBR upper in .277 W and a long barreled upper in 6.5 pcc.
Link Posted: 11/1/2014 2:49:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



lol, i feel you.  same boat.

300 BO is def not a 300 yard humane kill cartridge.  wait, what barrel length?  BO might do 300 yards on small deer w/ TSX if its from a 16" barrel, not a 9'' though probably.  

I think the PCC is probably the only 556 brass based variant that could humanely kill med game at 300 yards, maybe that 25-45 sharps, but that 87 g  hot core bullet is a shitty BC IIRC.

IMO, best set up for a  reloader w/ lots of 5.56 brass would be a SBR upper in .277 W and a long barreled upper in 6.5 pcc.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm starting to get sick of trying to make this decision.



lol, i feel you.  same boat.

300 BO is def not a 300 yard humane kill cartridge.  wait, what barrel length?  BO might do 300 yards on small deer w/ TSX if its from a 16" barrel, not a 9'' though probably.  

I think the PCC is probably the only 556 brass based variant that could humanely kill med game at 300 yards, maybe that 25-45 sharps, but that 87 g  hot core bullet is a shitty BC IIRC.

IMO, best set up for a  reloader w/ lots of 5.56 brass would be a SBR upper in .277 W and a long barreled upper in 6.5 pcc.


The 6.5PCC is a great cartridge, and should OP decide to go in that direction he has my support as Vic is also a great guy.

However, the .277 Wolverine can also humanely kill medium sized game to 300 yards. The 100 AccuBond or 95TTSX at 2600+fps out of a 16" gives you all you need.  The TTSX will still expand out to 325 yards or more, the 100AB would dump all energy into the target and you're  still over 750 ft/lbs with either a 110SPH at 250fps or the 100AB at 2600fps at 300 yards.

Not meant to take anything away from the 6.5PCC, again, I just wanted to clarify your statement.

The 6.5PCC is great OP.
Link Posted: 11/1/2014 4:21:50 AM EDT
[#22]
300BO is going to give you full expansion at 300 yards with the blacktip from only a 9" barrel.  

If its going 2400fps at the muzzle, its still expanding at 450 yards.  It only requires 1300fps to expand.

If you can compensate for the drop effectively, it will do its part and punch a nice size hole.  No temporary cavity to speak of but a nice hole.


Link Posted: 11/1/2014 11:18:56 AM EDT
[#23]
Am I correct in assuming the .277 w is set up to shoot lighter weight bullets?  It seems like it would be geared toward the 6.8 stuff as opposed to bullets that would work well in the .270 winchester. Though I would think some of those long stretched out .270 would work well for suppressed fire, IF they could be stabilized.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The 6.5PCC is a great cartridge, and should OP decide to go in that direction he has my support as Vic is also a great guy.

However, the .277 Wolverine can also humanely kill medium sized game to 300 yards. The 100 AccuBond or 95TTSX at 2600+fps out of a 16" gives you all you need.  The TTSX will still expand out to 325 yards or more, the 100AB would dump all energy into the target and you're  still over 750 ft/lbs with either a 110SPH at 250fps or the 100AB at 2600fps at 300 yards.

Not meant to take anything away from the 6.5PCC, again, I just wanted to clarify your statement.

The 6.5PCC is great OP.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm starting to get sick of trying to make this decision.



lol, i feel you.  same boat.

300 BO is def not a 300 yard humane kill cartridge.  wait, what barrel length?  BO might do 300 yards on small deer w/ TSX if its from a 16" barrel, not a 9'' though probably.  

I think the PCC is probably the only 556 brass based variant that could humanely kill med game at 300 yards, maybe that 25-45 sharps, but that 87 g  hot core bullet is a shitty BC IIRC.

IMO, best set up for a  reloader w/ lots of 5.56 brass would be a SBR upper in .277 W and a long barreled upper in 6.5 pcc.


The 6.5PCC is a great cartridge, and should OP decide to go in that direction he has my support as Vic is also a great guy.

However, the .277 Wolverine can also humanely kill medium sized game to 300 yards. The 100 AccuBond or 95TTSX at 2600+fps out of a 16" gives you all you need.  The TTSX will still expand out to 325 yards or more, the 100AB would dump all energy into the target and you're  still over 750 ft/lbs with either a 110SPH at 250fps or the 100AB at 2600fps at 300 yards.

Not meant to take anything away from the 6.5PCC, again, I just wanted to clarify your statement.

The 6.5PCC is great OP.

Link Posted: 11/1/2014 11:47:23 AM EDT
[#24]
Yes, the .277 Wolverine does use 6.8 SPC based pills...The .270 Win. pills are to long for it, unless you plan to use for subsonic/suppressed use, etc...

Also for those Interested in a 6.5mm PCC pistol/SBR build...

For those planning to run 10.5" pistol/sbr length barrels here are the numbers for the 6.5mm PCC round with long throat chamber
(please note these are maximum loads, reduce by at least 10% to start, use at your own risk).

Parameters:

Combined Overall Length: 2.285", Case trim length: 1.645" to 1.650", Case Capacity: 31.5 grs. H2O, MAP: 62K .
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Projectile: Hornady 123gr. A-Max./SST, Powder: AA1680, Charge: 20.8 grs., Velocity: 2,076 fps., Energy: 1,177 fpe., Fill Rate: 88.8%, Burn Rate: 97.56%, 61,577 PSI

For Ramshot X-Terminator: Charge: 23.5 grs., Vel: 2,130 fps., Energy: 1,239 fpe., F/R: 100.7%, B/R: 96.14%, 61,577 PSI.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Projectile: 140gr. Hornady BTHP: Powder: AA1680: Charge: 19.2 grs., Vel: 1,926 fps., Energy: 1,154 fpe., F/R: 87.8%, B/R: 98.55%, 61,937 PSI.

For Ramshot X-Terminator: Charge: 21.6 grs., Vel: 1,972 fps., Energy: 1,209 fpe., F/R: 99.3%, B/R: 97.29%, 61,215 PSI.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Projectile: Lapua 144gr. FMJBT: Powder: AA1680: Charge: 19.7 grs., Vel: 1,918 fps., Energy: 1,176 fpe., F/R: 86.1%, B/R: 99.02%, 61,991 PSI

For Ramshot X-Terminator: Charge: 22.2 grs., Vel: 1,969 fps., Energy: 1,239 fpe., F/R: 97.5%, B/R: 98.02%, 61,910 PSI.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks.
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