I have a Aero Precision M5 build. Do you all think that a lot of people will sell their older AR 10s to get one of these G II with all of its weight savings and new features?

Not really considering none of the parts are compatible with 90% of the current LR308/SR25 format kind of like the PA10 from Palmetto it looks all great price wise till you do some research and realize almost none of the parts interchange with current offerings.

As-is, the GII is already a game-changer in my opinion, and I have detailed why.  More importantly than weight is balance. The GII has both going for it.  It's lighter than any other AR10, all other components equal, and is better balanced than any other AR10, including the originals, and the originals are a joy to handle and shoot compared to the modern guns, believe me.





There are things that are going to happen with the GII that are really going to open a lot of people's eyes once several aspects of the custom market get a hold of it.  You'll see.

It might be a nice step forward in the 308 AR industry, but there are many many people who distrust the DPMS name and anyone else in that shit show known as Freedom Group. Maybe the parts become standard and other more reliable manufacturers begin releasing their own based on the GII pattern.

I think branding it with the DPMS name had more to do with dealer arrangements and assembly capacity from what they have out of St. Cloud, MN.

It really isn't a DPMS product in the old sense of what we were used to seeing with LR308's and AP4's anyway.

Get this through your heads though:  There will never be standardization in the AR10 market.  Anyone with that expectation will be met with nothing but disappointment.  The market has been demanding lighter guns from several places:

* Hunters
* Competitive Action Shooters
* General use/utilitarian customers

There really aren't a lot of ways to fix that with the large frame AR10's, unless you do radical changes, and then you end up with a lighter gun with a massive BCG reciprocating inside of it.  The GII solves all of those issues in strides, and opens up a door that will get a lot of hunters onboard with self-loaders.

Adams Arms has their GII based .308 coming out.  I'm sure more will follow, it's still early.

It's changed  MY game I know.  I was going to build a range queen on a Maten receiver but decided to wait.  If the aftermarket picks up on the G2 and DPMS starts selling receivers and components, I'll go that direction instead.

In one of the G2 threads didnt someone say components were going tk be realeased about this time? Theyd have to sell the barrel extension too. If theyll release the receivers,  bcg and barrel extensuon for 800ish I think itll change things.

DPMS stated they should have parts available in the fall.  So I'm guessing Q2 2015.

I really doubt most people who have rifles they put together (or bought) that are working fine, doing what they want them to do, are going to rush out and buy a GII. For most people the differences aren't likely enough to make it worth the cost...both in getting rid of a perfectly good gun that may have cost more in the first place, and having to go buy another one.

For those that weight, balance, and length factor into what they use a rifle for (which is probably the minority in this market) such as in a professional or competitive manner, it certainly might be worth replacing a larger, heavier, differently balanced rifle.

But when making the decision to buy a NEW rifle, I think the GII is positioned pretty well in the market. A step up from the lowest priced .308 guns, and below the guns in the ~$2K range. Yet with improvements that some of the upper end guns don't have.

You'll ALWAYS have "shortcomings" if price is an object. As has been referenced prior, the amount of time, effort, and the standard to which the parts and rifles are held to in say a KAC, is never going to be met by a $1500 DPMS, at least as long as the rifle is made in the US. :)

Same here, I sold my MaTen receiver set, decided to go with the GII instead.

I had a rock river lar-8 , great rifle super accurate and reliable but it was like packing a boat anchor around . I sold it and decided I would just use a bolt gun for reaching out alittle farther . After handling a gII hunter I think I may wade back into the 308 game . I agree with others I think guys who have guns set up for long range shooting comps or range use will probably not see a need to sell there 1000 yd rifle and run out and grab a new gII , but I think new buyers or guys who hunt will be the driving force on these guns.

It definitely changed the way I will forever approach my AR10 projects.  I can't emphasize to everyone enough the joy that it is to hold and shoot an original ArmaLite AR10.  They are just really handy, lightweight, superbly balanced guns that feel right in your hands.

The GII does it even better, and that says a lot. It literally feels like an AR15 in your palms, which I think was the engineering team's goal.  I would love a builder's kit, and I spoke with their production manager, Adam Ballard, at SHOT about this.  He said DPMS has always been a parts company, and there were definitely talks about parts for the GII being available some time in the future.

They need to set up or network with one of their other brand names to offer a custom shop, or higher end series for the GII, including caliber options.  When that cat gets out of the bag, it will change many hunters' outlook on AR designs as viable, lightweight rifles that can now be chambered in the plethora of .308 parent case cartridges.  There is something I'm thinking about in particular that is a radical departure for me as far as calibers go, and I don't know why, but it really excites me.

One thing that is kinda taking the competitive shooting world by storm is action shooting and endurance type events blended together with precision long range rifle, team matches where one has a carbine and the other a long gun, things like that.  Steel Safari, Thunderbeast Challenge, Sniper Adventure Challenge, Sniper's Hide Cup, and many other matches that have made guys realize that their boat anchor long guns are a major weight penalty consideration when having to actually carry the things, versus wheel them off the back of the truck to the bench.

I personally have never been interested in riding a bench in competition. Those of us who love the thrill and speed of 3-Gun, but also love these types of practical field matches (with stages separated by rough terrain, elevation, requirements for a lot of positional shooting, and lightweight but accurate guns) have really found a relatively uncharted discipline that is very challenging and fulfilling, bringing out the quintessential skills that a rifleman needs in the real world.

The GII is really a major consideration for those of us who have been running heavy AR10 gas guns already in these matches, especially since there are so many barricades and kneeling position shots.  A heavy bolt gun doesn't do so well in the balance department, and neither does a legacy AR10.  Enter the GII.  That is why I say it not only appeals to hunters, but the action shooters as well.  If you look at heavy metal division for 3-gun, you can't beat the GII with anything else out there, all other components the same.

Then look at the caliber conversion folks.  The 1993-2013 AR10 receiver set and BCG is so huge, it really turns a lot of hunters off.  The GII is the weight of a lightweight brush gun, but now has the architecture to support a wide range of cartridges that will be another game-changing market.  Mark my words:  You are going to see some really hot developments from this design.

I really do not understand the big weight difference my CMMG MK3 MOD 0 18" freefloat barrel weighs 7.6LBS sans magazine MK3 MOD 0
the DPMS GII Recon which is comparable 16" barrel freefloat is 8.5LBS DPMS GII Recon
So in reality my " Old heavy rifle " is lighter and has more parts available

The Recon has a relatively heavy barrel.  A GII AP4 weighs 7.25 pounds stock and slightly less than 7 pounds with an MI 12" Keymod rail.

G2 AP4

Yes, the GII Recon is poorly executed in my opinion when you feel it, but people are taking that handguard off straight away and replacing it with a Sampson or MI.

The GII Recon has a fairly heavy barrel profile.  The old school YHM-type handguard adds crazy weight to it.  Even the older receiver DPMS 308 Recon feels well balanced and lightweight compared to the GII Recon, but again, that handguard is coming off and getting replaced, which sheds at least 8 oz., taking it back down to ~7.5lbs...with a medium heavy contour barrel.

The GII Hunter with 20" barrel and rifle stock is within an ounce of your 18" MK3, and it feels just like an AR15.  Put the same MOE stock on it and see what happens to the weight.  I have never felt an AR10 that handles or balances like an AR15.  The closest are the original 1957-1962 Dutch production guns, but none of the US made post-1993 guns are anything like it in terms of balance until now (GII).

If you hold the CMMG in one hand, and the DPMS GII configured with the same handguard, you will immediately see what I am talking about.  Raw numbers mean nothing when you actually feel the balance of the gun, hence my comparison to the Thompson vs. Garand, or STG-44 vs. AK.

I am seriously considering the GII SASS.

I'll admit I was extremely skeptical and and still am not completely sold that it is a game changer. However, I do think the design is a good step in the right direction but the DPMS models are far from perfect. It will be interesting to see who takes it to the next level.

I don't see Freedom Group bringing this rifle to the top of the food chain though.

If you compare like parts, the GII will be lighter. The Recon is heavier due to the barrel contour and cheese grater handguard.

Anyone have a pic of the two styles of receivers or at least carriers side by side?

What physically changed in the dimensions and parts from the first gen to the GII?

What Do those changes do for reliability?

What war did the Dutch military use the AR10 design?
B.

What aluminum are the GII's upper and lowers made of and are they forged or extruded?


ETA: Forged 7075 T6 upper & lower.

Same here.  I was on the fence about buying an Aero or Mega upper and lower, the G2 changed my mind.  I want a rifle that I can carry while I hunt, shoot an 18-20' barrel, and still be able to put up respectable groups at 500 yards.

I know you can get the weight down on a well built/designed AR308 platform, but its going to cost you something.  Money most likely ;)

Time will tell.  If Freedom gets their act together and gets out Remington version, they could increase market share quite a bit.  Im honestly surprised they didnt have a Remington version ready for deer season this year.  

I will not buy a rifle built by DPMS.  I would buy their upper, lower, and BCG.  Add in some quality components to cover the rest of the parts, and have a hell of a rifle.

Sadly the BCG would give me the most pause...  ...I wouldn't use their BCG in my AR15s.

Same here.  Hopefully by the time the individual parts are available to the public, they will any issues resolved.  Another possibility is that they smarten up and let some good aftermarket companies design a BCG that works in their platform, but is more reliable.

see I like their barrels, have always been accurate but the BCG is a no go for me...upper and lower are non issue for me

Even after they have been extensively tested?

The "new stuff" on the GII may distinguish itself slightly from other current offerings.
Maybe something to think about if you don't already own a perfectly good .308 AR.

Whatever fancy features the GII may have, it won't make me ditch my existing, and completely-good, gear.

Handy, and MOA accuracy are all I require.

100 yards


Compared to the AK

I understand the perspective of those of you who feel this way, but everything I'm seeing with this gun is that the only thing DPMS about it is the engraved brand name on the lower.  

The receivers are one of the best quality forgings on the market.

The Bolt Carrier Group is a totally new design from guys who probably never had any dealings with the old DPMS, unless they were there and not allowed to progress with their ideas under Luth, and I get the sense that they are engineers resourced through Remington's clout, but with a clean slate approach to the AR10 that is very refreshing.  There are several aspects of the BCG that are innovative, as well as how they made the height of the receiver come down to AR15 profile, without sacrificing the support from the upper receiver tunnel for the barrel extension. Whoever they are, from an engineering and design perspective, they knocked this one out of the park.  If you had told me I would be saying this before I went to SHOT this year, I would have laughed in your face.

There is nothing about the critical components that feels or comes across as cheap, like an LR308 receiver set.  LR308 BCG's were actually very good in the beginning, since they were hard chrome plated and a copy of the SR25 BCG, maybe even sourced from the same supply chain, steel, machine shop, kiln, chrome plater, small parts, etc.  JP was using DPMS bolts for years until they finally introduced their own high performance bolt.

The GII uses the same materials that the JP bolt does, if I understand right, and both it and the extension are well made.  They have had some hiccups with the firing pin hole that every .080" holed bolt will have in a gasser with certain ammunition, and that has been reduced to a smaller hole like Armalite did.  I told them at SHOT they were going to see that come up, since I have dealt with it for years in both .308 and .260 Rem guns built on DPMS receivers and BCG's, but with high end barrels.

For someone like me, who has carefully followed the AR10 market since the 1980's (when all that existed were Dutch ArmaLite imports), through the advent of the SR25, 1996 Armalite AR10, and everything since, the GII made all of those large frame beasts obsolete overnight.  I'm not sure what I will do with my custom GAP .260 Remington, because it's a laser, but if I could swap out its barrel and careful assembly methods into a GII frame, I would jump on it right now.  I'm well over 14lbs with it currently, with a relatively small scope.

Speaking to people as a collective....

If your biggest requirements are size and weight, and you must have it NOW, then the DPMS GII could be a "game changer", for YOU.    Personally, I think the new design still has a lot to prove in terms of reliability and longevity given the track record of it's source.    This could vary well be the end all, be all, for 308 and up sized cartridges in the AR platform, but only time will tell.  And in my humble opinion, although they created the design, history says Freedom Group will not sit on top of this market in terms of quality.

It's an exciting advancement, for sure.  Next comes proof.


ETA:  Listening to LRRPF in this, and the "recommend an AR 308 variant" thread, and who sounds about as historically impressed with Freedom/DPMS as I am, I really need to hunt one  these down and finger bang it.

Have a hard time believing anythings a game changer when the flagship wears a heavy, outdated and clunky YHM forend.

The BCG looks awesome tho and the balance comments are interesting.

Yes, the YHM pineapples and glacier guards didn't help at all in my opinion.  They took the newest, coolest, superbly engineered engine and chassis, and threw a set of may-pop tires on it.

I don't know if that was to get rid of inventory, or the fact that many people are going to rip off all the furniture before they even shoot the rifles, so the YHM quad rails had to make sense somewhere.  I know if I bought the Recon or SASS, those handguards would be on a pay it forward thread or for maybe $20 in the EE.  

I think the marketing people know this market, and planned accordingly.  By partnering with Sampson and Midwest Industries, they increase palatability of the GII, rather than saying, "You have to come to us for all the handguards."  Hopefully they use up the YHM quads and start introducing the Recon and SASS with something more modern, like their 3G2 handguard.

With SLR Rifleworks making a forearm soon, that sealed the deal for me. They make awesome stuff.

According to my industry source, all the design, R&D and testing was done outside of St.Cloud facilities by Remington engineers down in Georgia(?). The G2 has been in R&D for a few years. The prototypes are in the tens of thousands of rounds. Dimensions and radius' needed tweeking, etc.

As mentioned I wasn't impressed with the YHM handguard setup. I bought the Hunter because its combination of lower weight and great balance made it worth the money. I don't feel like lugging around a heavy, unbalanced large AR up and down hills and across miles of prairie.

Game changer? I thought that when I read the first reports and now that I actually own one, I'm convinced it has set a new bar for .308 AR's. When it comes out in other calibers it'll take off even more. I understand additional calibers are on the plan sheet. Personally a .260 Rem in a G2 Hunter would be an awesome open range rifle.

Yep, they're supposed to be making their Renegade charging handle for it as well.

This is true!

Meh....just another variation straying from a proven standard (KAC/LMT).  I'll wait a few years before spending that kind of money on a DPMS product...

I previously would never have bought a DPMS .308 AR but I've been watching and reading pretty much everything I come across on the GII and it seems like they have a real winner.  This whole time I've been planning on buying an M&P10 which also has quite a following and is known for it's light weight plus we own an M&P15 and it's an excellent rifle.  What I'm curious to know is how does the GII model, closest in style to the M&P10, compare?  Is there a clear winner between the two?

the M&P10 gets it lights weight from its very light weight barrel profile.  I want a lighter weight more compact full cartridge rifle while maintaining a decent barrel profile.

Wilson Combats new LW s the same way.  14" pencil barrel.

My brother has the M&P which I thought pretty good for an old style large AR, as far as weight. But as mentioned above the barrel is too short for me and skinny. With a slim MI handguard and Vortex scope it turned into a heavy beast that I wouldn't carry hunting. Even with its heavier weight it doesn't kick any less than a G2 and I hate muzzle blast from shorter barrels. I'm just glad he bought it because I was seriously thinking about it.

Clear winner is G2.

Anyone know the actual weights savings of the GII receivers and BCG? I know I've asked 100 times and still can't get a straight answer, even from DPMS.

Weight savings is not that much over my current DPMS-based carbine with a light 16" Armalite carbine barrel. I run the Enidine buffer and a PRI brake and the recoil is highly manageable.

If I could get a GII AP4, I would take off the brake and put on a A1/A2, remove the grip and put on an old early fat A2 Colt grip from my stash, remove the cast fsb and add a vltor or dd mini gas block if it would cover up the pin holes, ditch the glaciers &  replace with one of those carbon fiber tubes off of the Hunter or kluge up a JP, put on a Magpul stock like on the Recon, put in a Geiselle trigger, then I might be GTG. Seems like a lot to get close to where I already am. I'll just wait for the upper/lower & barrels to come out piecemeal.

ETA: to be nicer

Or get the Hunter, drop in a trigger of choice, shoot it as-is, decide if you want to cut it to 16" and open the gas port.

yes, weight is one thing.  Balance is another.  Again, hold a Thompson (heavier), then a Garand (lighter), and tell me which one you want to carry.

Looking even harder at the G II Lite Hunter now. It appears we can use the fire control parts for an AR15, so if I am not happy with the trigger, I can just buy a Geissele and it will drop in. According to the guys at DPMS, they have various buffer parts if I decide I need to change the stock (not likely, the Lite Hunter comes with a MagPul MOE). So I may buy the G II, since the only thing I really need is a gas block with a rail on top that matches the receiver rail height, and that should be available. I'm just wondering how long it will be before we can expect aftermarket barrels, feed ramps, and BCG's. If I'm not satisfied with the accuracy (I probably will be) I'd prefer the option to pick up an aftermarket (Criterion or Kreiger maybe) match barrel. And I'd really like a coated BCG, I'd also prefer it be made of premium material. It looks as though DPMS did do some serious durability testing on the G II, but I'd still like to have the option to upgrade.

i'm really impressed w/ the G2, its just that IMO there is basically no scenarios where a 308 rifle is a better choice than an intermediate cartridge tactically.  The only nice it really in an improvement in is for fix position snipers who need more energy on target at range, or who could benefit from it, and a high power in 6 or 6.5 or 7mm would be way better than lobbing 308 rainbows.  Any other scenario having more ammo, less recoil and a lighter weapon that enables you to shoot from non convention positions quickly.

The only use a civilian would have for it would be to make more humane kills on game at ranges outside the capabalities of 6.x, and again would be better served w/ 260 rem or whatever.

There, I hope I have talkde myself out of getting one...

Until it comes out in 260 Remington...

For me and the current caliber offering, that is true.  I spent the whole day yesterday at North Springs Range shooting, and my 16" Grendel is as easy to hit with as my buddy's 26" .308 custom bolt gun with massive bull barrel, aluminum chassis stock, and impressive 2-stage trigger.  .308 just flat out blows when shooting distance in shifting winds.

You had to be very perceptive to hear the difference in impact on steel even at 200yds between the 26" .308 and my 16" 6.5 Grendel AR15, with slightly more bass tonal range audible with the 168gr SMK vs. the 123gr 6.5mm Scenar or 123gr Hornady SST.  We had 20mph winds that were a no value tail wind at the firing line, but were a 3/4 value down at 600yds, which could be seen in the mirage if you knew how to focus back and forth on the spotting scope.

The 175gr SMK would have done better, hot loaded and in accuracy node, but I gave up on .308 years ago after accepting it for what it is.  I still will watch it fly downrange probably for the rest of my shooting days, but only because of its popularity among shooters.

From a military perspective, the GII could offer a lot to armies that are committed to the 7.62 NATO, in the way that the SCAR-17 does, but for 1/3 the cost and equally light weight.

My interests as a civilian consumer are only in more efficient calibers and chamberings.  I'm looking at 6.5mm and something else entirely that will be truly exciting.