Does anyone have any trigger time behind one, specifically the 18" SS upper?  I have the opportunity to buy an AP AR10 stripped lower for a great price and I'm VERY interested in the PA10 18" SS upper but can't find any decent range reports anywhere.

Also, does anyone have anything good to say about upper fit on the AP lowers?  I've read conflicting statements.

Ordered mine 20 Sept. It arrives today. Will shoot it tomorrow. I am also replacing aluminum gas block with steel Vltor.

What I have seen reported here so far is that the PSA uppers are not mating to other DPMS-pattern lowers.

I'd like to hear some range reports on the PSA barrels.

DPMS Lowers Do NOT work with the PSA uppers...

I sent my PA-10 upper back last week...

To me it looked like the BCG sat a lot lower in the PSA upper...
The carrier couldn't retract into the buffer tube nor would the magazine lock in with the bolt closed,,,

I think the PA-10 upper was good quality  really wanted to put it to use...

I should have taken a few pictures to show the differences in how the carrier sat in my DPMS upper and the PA-10

I've been reading the lowers don't play nice with Geiselle triggers

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

have any links or pictures? that would be helpful.

I think the short answer is that if you buy one particular receiver, make sure you match that receiver to the upper or lower as a set now with the PA-10.  Don't try to match with something else.

I have a PSA lower and mated it with the PSA 18" ML Stainless. Prelim op-check is good to go. I will temp mount a 5-20 SWFA SS on it and feed it my home rolled 178gr Hornady HPBT over 43.0 gr Varget. These are my standard go to accurate pills.

That's a max load in Hornady's Reloading Handbooks (43.2gr Varget under the 178gr BTHP).  You aren't going to work up a pressure ladder first, and find the accuracy nodes along the way?

What if a worn or short throated reamer was used to cut the chamber?  I would consider starting with a start load and do a pressure ladder.  You don't need to load 3 or 5 of each load, just one charge weight in 1% case volume increments, work up, and shoot a round robin at the same time for nodes.  Saves a lot of time and money.

The MLGS 18" barrel is going to gas the operating system really hard with a max load under a 178gr pill with long bearing surface like that bullet has.  They are also using 1/10" rifling, so start pressure is going to be steeper than a 1/11.25", or 1/12".

43.0 is near the bottom (42-45) I go by 7 years of experimenting with Varget. 43.0 is so far from max that even with minimal jump (.005 -.010) it won't come near max pressure . This is quite a proven accurate load for a wide range of barrels, and also no over gas pressure problems for 06 Garands and 7.62 M1As. 43.0 is my starting point. My chamber will have .060 jump with the COAL I use. In 7 years I've loaded over 88lbs (14000 rds) of Varget in 308. One 700 24" 5R loved 46 gr. So to answer your question, starting at 43.0 is quite logical and sensable.

Sounds good.  Checking with Hodgdon's site, and they list 42.0-45.0C with Varget and 175gr.  It could just be an issue with less case capacity with the brass Hornady used.

Either way, looking forward to your results.  You have plenty of jump, so start pressure should be fine.

For gas, the Garand and M14 have ports much farther away than a MLGS AR10, but you can mitigate that if it shows up.

I'd be interested to see what your gas port diameter is, as would others who are considering this option.

I wish I had the cash to drop on one. PSA has always been good to go in my book.

I finished my PSA lower a couple of days ago. I thought I got a shipped email about my upper on Sunday. I thought it was supposed to arrive today but nothing. Kinda bummed, have to get home and check my email.

Anyone who has been shooting Varget long knows that aint anywhere near a max load.  The books are terrible on Varget.  43.0gr would be my starting load.  The specs are slowly improving, but many are still very conservative.  The issue is that Varget varies a bit lot to lot so they play it safe.

I will have data in a couple weeks.

I have the $129 (shipped) lower inbound.  I bought the 18" rifle kit because of the stainless barrel and I am hoping for very good things.  

My 168gr SMK loads with 43.5gr of Varget are MOA for a ten shot group at 200 with my Remington 700, so I know they are capable.  I also have some factory match and some 147gr Lake City rounds to run through it.  

I am assuming this lower takes P-mags?   Please confirm, I am actually looking around on this forum to find out this very thing......

What don't the lowers like about the Geisselle?  I am actually leaning toward a Timney.

Here is my report:
Sighted in at 25 yds. 3 shots had it exactly where I wanted it at -1.8". Put 5 additional holes one atop the other. Using bench and front and rear bag. Took it out to zachary 100yds.

First 5 rds grouped at 1.6"   BUT I know I put 2 high and right by at least 2". As expected the trigger is...well you know.

Next 20 rds grouped a solid 1.25"

Next 25 grouped at 1"

Then a little QC problem halted my shooting. The hand guard fell off.

I came home and replaced the gas block with a stainless Vltor and noticed that the orig GB 2 set screws were not tight, snug but not tight. And it was probably bc there was no thread locker on either screw.

Replaced the flash suppressor with a JP Bennie Cooley

Looked at the hand guard screws and they were dry, no thread locker.  All screws have thread locker now.

It takes Pmags

Just finished tuning the trigger.  Started out at 10.3 lbs because trigger angle was cocking hammer back. It no longer pulls the hammer back and eliminated most of the creep. Breaks at 7 1/2 lbs.  got silly and finished machined contact surfaces on trigger/hammer with 3 micron lapping film. The orig trigger was very lawyer friendly.

I received my PSA 20 SS upper to go with the PSA lower I assembled last week.  I also received my PA 1-6x with ACSS today as well.  After work tonight I took her up to the range to try her out.

Sadly I live in NYS and plan to hunt with this rifle so I have the mag affixed in the rifle so it is not easily removable.

I loaded 4 rounds in mag, chambered the first round and a second popped up out the mag. I can't drop the mag to clear the jam easily, so I spend the next few mins clearing the weapon.   Will put it back to stock and go try it soon to see if it feeds properly.

Proceed to single load the breech and sight in the scope. The glass is very nice for the price of the scope.  I got it very close at 100 with just a couple of rounds. I was finding that I didn't need 4 clicks per inch though,(because its .308 not .223?)

Had a could of light primer strikes and trouble with the buffer tube retaining pin/spring that was my fault I am guessing.

It got dark and I could not test it properly.

Hoping next range trip is better. I was hoping to hunt with it next week.

the ability to use other uppers doesnt bother me so much but Im really curious about the pa10 lowers if their upper/lowers have a good fit and the lower is in spec?(if dpms parts all fit properly I guess).

I would probably buy an extra stripped upper or two to build on later.



it looks like they have 2 different lowers a PTAC and a PA10,same receiver different rollmark?

or are there other differences between the two?

Light hammer strike could be the hammer spring installed wrong. Legs of hammer spring should come up from under the hammer then sit on top of trigger pin.

Went back up today. Found it will not feed from the mag what so ever. I only have Pmags ( yes the compatible kind)  but I cannot even chamber the first round from the magazine and I have tried a couple of different mags.  Shoots well otherwise. Not sure what the issue is

Is the BCG lubed well? Which would be all 4 sliding contact points along the BCG. Or the ammo is too long COAL maybe and catching in the mag. Or does the bolt ride over the top of the top round and not even attempt to push it out. Or too many rds in the mag.

Please, someone elaborate on this.

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253728_PA_10_and_Geissele_SSA_E___NOW_IT_WORKS__.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254279_Live_fire_updates_on_PA_10_after_machining_Geissele_trigger_to_function.html

From PSA's industry forum

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_444/253729_Trigger_issue_in_the_new_PA10_s.html

From Geissele's industry forum

Sounds like a slight, fixable, clearance problem between the hammer and bolt carrier

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254149_PSA_PA10_questions_post_here.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254366_Why_no_PA_10_accuracy_reports_.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254616_PTAC_Tac10__308_lowers.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254438_PA10_buffer_length_problem.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254644_PA10_MPI_bolt_.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254629_Oop__wrong_price___PTAC_308_upper_with_PSA_PA10_Lower_Build_Kit____549_94.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254630_PA10_proprietary_parts_Armalite_compatibility_.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254536_New___16_SS_PA10_308_Rifle_Kit_with_Nickel_Boron_BCG____599_99__.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254516_PA_10_Lower_Build.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253185_My_short_PSA_PA_10_build_review___.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254426_PSA_PA10_BCG__.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253411_PSA_PA10_308_Complete_Upper____599_99.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254188_Short_range_report_on_the_the__308__PA_10___is_this_accuracy_ok_with_iron_sights__Pic_included_.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254055_New_PA10_Uppers__Lowers_and_Rifle_Kits__.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253843_Any_plans_for_a_short__308_upper_.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/254042_AR_10_Uppers_.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253996_PA_10_Bolt_Carrier_Questions.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253943_Does_anyone_know_the_weight_of_the_slim_profile_PA_10_upper_compared_to_the_regular_profile_upper_.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253974_Should_my_brass_neck_look_like_this_coming_out_of_a_PSA_PA10.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253727_PA10_Take_down_pins.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253715_PA10_upper_questions.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253475_PA10_complete_lowers__299_99.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253653_ETA_for__308_barrels____.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253031_PA10_buttstock_question.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/252751_Picked_up_my_PSA_AR10_lower_today____let_s_see_who_can_post_the_lowest_serial_number.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253424_AR_10_Upper_Parts.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253308_PA10_Parts_Compatability_Thread.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253283_Psa_ar10.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/252919_PA_10_issue___.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253038_CHF_PA_10_barrels_.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/253126_PA_10_duplicate_serial_number.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/252987_Help_me_build_my_PA10.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/252970_Anyone_built_their_PSA_AR10_yet_.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/252735_Question_about_the_PSA_pattern_AR10.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/252672_PALMETTO_AR10____________________.html

So I had a few mins and fiddled around with it some. The bolt catch is not working properly and catching the bolt at all.(I even swapped it out with another)  When the mag is insterted and empty it keeps the bolt back. The second I drop the empty mag the bolt slams forward.

I shot mine yesterday and had no problems.

Figured out my problem, was totally my fault. I put a magpul ubr stock on it without thinking. The bolt was not coming back far enough. ..dumbass.. I did shoot a deer with it tonight before I fixed the problem.  Just one round in the chamber was all it took.

Nothing wrong with the UBR.  You should just be able to use an LR308 carbine buffer and spring, not AR15 buffer and spring.

I used the 308 buffer and spring that came from PSA with my lower build kit with the ubr. As soon as I noticed the problem and switched to the carbine buffer tube, problem solved.

Just posted in the PSA industry forum, but I finally got to shoot my PA10 today

Shot 2" at 50 yrds in hurricane crosswinds.



Everything worked fine. Brass ejected well. I will put it thru some more testing soon, but I just had to shoot it today.

The only weakness I have found is the rear takedown pin seems a little wiggly, but I may pull the grip and check to see if the spring and plug are seated properly.

I'm with this, for what it is worth I run 44gr's under 168 AMAX and SMKs with great success. All of my books say 41.8 to 42.3 is a max load. the bottle says 46gr starting load.....

Back on topic, I've seen one of the PSA Complete rifles up close. the barrel looks a lot like the 5.56 Stainless barrels they had for dirt cheap there for a while. the markings were in the same place, and the finish looked the same. So, I'd assume it is from the same manufacturer, If that is the case, I expect it to be a pretty decent shooter.

Do you have a jig or did you wing it?   (I am a wing it guy)  Was most of your lapping on the trigger, hammer, or both?


Heh.....I have never ventured into the PSA industry forum.  All I thought would be there were assholes bitching about shipping times.

BRB.

I made a rudimentary jig to keep the hammer vertical. Thats how I lower the amount the trigger sets in to the hammer. As for the trigger face, it was cut too sharp and instead of simply being pulled out of the hammer, it added more hammer pull. I put that face of the trigger flat on the stone, then added about 5 degrees, then took it down until that part of the trigger face was at a good angle. Ive done about 60 this way. Simple and safe and mechanically they end up matching the same angles and measurements of quality single stage groups.

My prediction:  The variants section is going to become PSA's PA-10 de facto customer service, repair, troubleshooting, and endless nightmare sub forum.

At the prices they are running right now, PA-10 DIY builds are going to flood the market.  I'm not sure how many will work, but combined with everyone's penchant for changing important parts on the guns, the lack of compatibility with popular triggers, and the nature of AR10's, this is going to be a wild ride.

They have made it so you can throw a .308 parts gun together for under $700.  Maybe people will start to spend on quality mounts and scopes at least...

Search the net for problems with LR308's They sure screwed me. PSA stands behind their

products and you have to give them credit for doing that.



 

Insightful
Just got an email for a PSA 308 lower for $129 shipped (non-ptac) and $600 18" upper.
I'm still holding out for an aero matched set on black friday though.

They were $272 shipped last weekend for a matched M5 set. (assembled upper). I ditched my PSA and wend with the M5.

It is very hard to resist, but I am not going to change a thing until I know whether this animal feeds and shoots.  I have some good experience with getting problem guns to run, such and 7.62x39 and 9mm.  

I already have two scopes and mounts to test.  

The forged receiver sets from Aero look good at a glance, but I don't have them in hand.  Anodizing has to be right on these things, otherwise you see issues in annoying places.

Why do I as the customer have to do their RDT&E for them to make my gun work? That's what I hate about factory guns, let alone parts.  With the AR market, more and more manufacturers are banking on the fact that they can just make parts, and let you figure it all out.

At some point, the market falls apart because you can't realistically expect everyone to troubleshoot their guns with high dollar testing equipment, getting their own reamers, and the tooling and experience needed to properly build a firearm.

We're getting ready to see a fecal storm of "Gun no werks, hulp me"  followed by a build list that focuses on what Magpul furniture and sights they threw on it, rather than the critical core components.

Manufacturers that actually take the time to get it right from the start and control the whole gun are going to sit back and chuckle as they see colossal abortion after horrendous failure erupt like gremlins in the night, with the expectation that someone else will now help them unscrew their cheap experiments in self-loading, high pressure containment vessels.

I can see it now, and it's already started here.  The trail of tears is getting ready to get wider and longer across the plains of the DIY AR10 world.

I could easily order all the parts right now to do as best of a job as I know how on making a reliable, accurate AR10 from these new parts offerings.  Here's what it's going to take:

* Correct .308 gas gun reamer, like the ones GA Precision uses.  Don't think they will be sharing the prints with me.  I'd have to draft my own, then send it to Manson to have a correct reamer made.  I can make a guess as to where the other barrel makers are going 90% of the time, and I won't ever let one of those reamers near my barrel blanks.

* A barrel smith that knows how to concentrically align a reamer with the bore.  Sadly, this is a custom feature nowadays-we pay thousands for what rifles should have by default.

* A well-sourced barrel extension correctly heat treated and tempered to mate with this barrel.

* I would actually be willing to gamble with a Fulton ready-to-go barrel in this regard.

The list goes on and on, but I'm going to be well in excess of a LaRue PredatOBR or LMT LM8 by the time I'm done just getting the gun running correctly with high speed photography analysis of the cyclic speed and ejection pattern.  Right now, I think the ArmaLite Inc. guns are the best bang for the buck when you look at reliability and accuracy.  You can get all the RDT&E of a professional operation, at a price point similar to DPMS, but it will actually work out of the box.  AR10A4 carbines are MSRP $1500, so they should be within $200 lower than that at your LGS.

       Full value cross wind easily 30mph.  Not that it affects bullet flight, but it does blow the shooter around.  This is definitely a milspec trigger pull, that is all you can say about it.  Bushnell Elite fixed 10x. After 20 rounds of test fire, settling my nerves, and zeroing, here is the 100 yard 10 shot group with 2013 Lake City M80 ball ammo:



















































 

"The forged receiver sets from Aero look good at a glance, but I don't have them in hand."

Months ago, I took a couple of hours to do research with DPMS and Aero, then happily ordered a stripped Aero M-5 lower as soon as it was available. Paired it up with an unfired DPMS Sportical upper without any problems whatsoever after dropping parts from various sources into the lower.

Since the long-cartridge lower protocol seems far from settled, one of the first things I'd like to see adopted is for mfrs. to tap the rear take-down pin detent hole for a 4-40 allen screw to retain detent and spring. The lower hassle-factor is well worth the extra machining expense for those of us who swap parts regularly.

Next up, I'll order a matched 7.62x51 set from Aero...their AR-15 sets are one of the greatest bargains in the market and there's every reason to believe the "AR-10" sets will meet or exceed them.

So if I bought a PSA stripped upper it should work on my DPMS LR 308 lower?? Juat wondering

I agree mostly, but My G2 has run flawlessly for over 500 rounds now, and thats with doing a barrel chop on a RLGS. My 2 buddies with DPMS g1's had zero issues with there guns except extractor failures, which were replaced for free, and one of the said F it after the second one broke and just got a JP enhanced bolt. If you stick to a factory rifle from a reputable company, I think everything will be resolved. In a couple months I will have my hands on tier one 308's I cant wait to see how they stack up, from a purely functional  standpoint.

There are high volume courses specifically set up for AR10's and 7.62x51 battle rifles.  Most of the classes see KAC SR-25ECC's, LaRue's, LMT's, and they run extremely well.

When you say "zero issues except extractor failures" it isn't zero issues, it's 100% no-go issues, and that's exactly what happened to me with my first LR-308.

If you get the engineering and materials science right with Total Quality Management from the start, using tool steels tempered correctly, with correct geometry, we don't have these problems.

These are self-loading military style rifles that need to be able to digest a high volume diet if the customer so chooses, not lego sets for posting pics of here.

A lot of people are counting on these rifles to work for hunting, defense of their farms, and maybe even HD.

If I'm out on a dangerous game hunt, I don't want an extractor failure to mean that I get mauled by a grizzly, or someone else does, over a simple little part that several companies seem to know how to make correctly, while others don't seem to care about.  I don't have to be raiding Bin Laden's compound to expect reliable performance from a rifle that I'm spending good money on, and most of the people I see getting into AR10's are doing so for hunting, long range, and competitive shooting.

gun owners are cheap

Final update: Hand loaded 43.4gr Varget, 168gr AMAX  no crimp  #34 CCI primer
total rds through before these 40 rds was 65.

8 groups of 5 rds.
 
1st group - 1"
2nd group - 7/8"
3rd group - 1"
4th group - 3/4"
5th group - 1/2"
6th group - 7/8"
7th group - 1/2"
8th group - 5/8"

My mods are the FF hand guard and the muzzle brake. Also tuned the trigger/hammer.

Well thats true, my buddies first extractor broke during the middle of a live fire drill we were doing on a friends farm. maybe 60 rounds deep in rapid fire. But since he upgraded to JP he has been well over 1k rounds no issues. I think that was a main issue with the G1 lr-308.. bad extractor material. On the plus side they sent him an entire new  BCG, which he sold for 350 during the panic, making his 1200 dollar rifle a couple hundred bucks cheaper after the new bolt.

Is this with the PSA PA-10?

Yes. 18" stainless