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Posted: 10/30/2014 8:24:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Please use my misfortune as the best opinion one can get about DPMS...
New or old, DPMS makes shit! |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 9:33:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please use my misfortune as the best opinion one can get about DPMS... New or old, DPMS makes shit! I think with enough posts, you might be able to single-handedly defeat DPMS. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:54:22 PM EDT
[#3]
I bet they still fix his rifle, no matter how much he trashes them.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 11:07:05 PM EDT
[#4]
My question is, how does a receiver like that pass through ISO-9001 QC standards? A lot of small firearms companies are at least trying to hold to ISO, but I'm betting Freedom Group insists on it, right?
I mean, if I'm paying for 7075T6 forgings, precision machining them, and then having them Type III hard coat anodized, they need to have a deep penetrating hardening on the aluminum with quality controls to ensure that a certain surface hardness is there. Something isn't right about that charge handle latch recess. What bothers me is the removal of material totally outside the normal articulation of the latch itself. If the latch did not gouge into the lead edge of the latch recess on the OD of the receiver, what metal or hard object did in 16 rounds of firing? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 11:44:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Put together a 6.8 SPC or a grendel AR15.
Myself I just build a 358 Gremlin as a hog whacker but have yet to shoot one with it. A farmer that works our land, and his brother just use a 223 AR15s and shoot them in the head. Killed something like over 200 this year, but they have full gen III night vision and ride around on ATVs all night until they clean them out. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 7:29:39 AM EDT
[#6]
can you get some pictures of the charging handle, especially where the front part hole that goes over the gas key tube. I suspect that
this was a charging handle problem. The way the bolt carrier is made, there is a tube fitted to the carrier instead of a gas key, either this was oversize or the hole in the charging handle was too small. Something is binding the two together. The upper receiver is now pretty much unusable, but I doubt that it is the problem, because there would have been a whole batch that was machined wrong in order to be mis aligned enough to cause this. I don't think there is anything wrong with the material of the upper. What caused the damage to the upper has to do with the fit between the charging handle and the bolt carrier. It may not have been caught at test firing, or during assembly. Something caused the two to mate. I would think, though that pushing the bolt carrier into the upper by hand would have been very tight at assy. I have read a lot of good reports on the G2, anyone can have a lemon every now and then that slips thru. 
You would think that the gun would have cycling problems with this condition? |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:27:12 AM EDT
[#7]
I would if I could, it's in the mail back to DPMS., I looked at it, wasn't anything wrong with it. No burs, smooth, just didn't hold onto the recess.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 5:45:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please use my misfortune as the best opinion one can get about DPMS... New or old, DPMS makes shit! My hunter has been flawless, nothing close to crap. Sounds like you got a bad charging handle. I wouldn't let that stop me from buying a G2, infact I like mine enough i may buy another.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 9:28:39 PM EDT
[#9]
When I drop $2,100 on a re-engineered weapon that is supposed to be top notch, and all I get is crappy weak CH recess that allows the CH to fly at my face on the very first shot I take with the piece of shit..., What is my opinion supposed to be???? My only other AR platform is a BCM mid 16, I have put just about every known over the counter factory ammo known to man through that hoss, and it eats it, shoots it, then spits out the leftovers! Not one miss-feed, jam, or failed ejection... I have around 700 rounds through it so far. So with that being said, to spend double the money, and the new weapon greets me with a potential broken nose..., yeah my first impression of DPMS isn't very good. I'm glad your hunter works like it should, I just wish the $2,100 piece of shit I bought was loaded up in the truck ready to get me a trophy tomorrow, and not in the back of a UPS truck headed back home to get "looked at" for half of the damn season!
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Posted: 10/31/2014 10:00:30 PM EDT
[#10]
My question is, how does a receiver like that pass through ISO-9001 QC standards? like every other one out the door as fast as possible , ISO 9001 a joke at least thats my take from being in manufacturing 19 plus years |
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Posted: 11/1/2014 10:22:08 AM EDT
[#11]
Adherence to TQM is a cultural phenomenon. Culture is driven by the company ownership/leadership.
If there is a culture for high standards of QC, where each employee takes personal ownership in ensuring that every effort is made to build a part to the highest standards, then you will have a much better product and the customer will feel it in their hands. If you just check in the block, "We do ISO 9001 standards." Then it will be a joke. |
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Posted: 11/1/2014 4:42:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Do you have a suggestion regarding a 458 beast upper going on a magpul UBR stock..., I have the blue, and orange tactical springs, and the st-t2, and st-t3 buffers. Would you know of the best combination?
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Posted: 11/5/2014 10:21:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet they still fix his rifle, no matter how much he trashes them. We did and it's on it's way back. BTW, Sabado that's a cool butt plate you have on the PRS. |
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Posted: 11/5/2014 10:27:27 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We did and it's on it's way back. BTW, Sabado that's a cool butt plate you have on the PRS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I bet they still fix his rifle, no matter how much he trashes them. We did and it's on it's way back. BTW, Sabado that's a cool butt plate you have on the PRS. What was the fix DPMS? |
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Posted: 11/5/2014 11:11:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What was the fix DPMS? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I bet they still fix his rifle, no matter how much he trashes them. We did and it's on it's way back. BTW, Sabado that's a cool butt plate you have on the PRS. What was the fix DPMS? Interested as well...gotta be more to this story. |
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Posted: 11/5/2014 2:23:38 PM EDT
[#16]
My question is:
Was the 7075 T6 Type III anodized upper receiver properly anodized, with a deep case hardening enough to prevent this, or was it something else? Was the fix a complete upper receiver group replacement, or a replacement of the upper receiver only? What was the professional analysis of the cause for this damages to the charge handle latch recess? |
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Posted: 11/5/2014 9:37:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My question is: Was the 7075 T6 Type III anodized upper receiver properly anodized, with a deep case hardening enough to prevent this, or was it something else? Was the fix a complete upper receiver group replacement, or a replacement of the upper receiver only? What was the professional analysis of the cause for this damages to the charge handle latch recess? Something to do with the PRS? |
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Posted: 11/5/2014 10:25:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We did and it's on it's way back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I bet they still fix his rifle, no matter how much he trashes them. We did and it's on it's way back. And that is why my shooting/hunting buddy and I will continue to buy your products. Everyone makes mistakes. What defines them is how they take care of their mistakes. |
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Posted: 11/5/2014 10:27:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Retracted.
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Posted: 11/5/2014 11:50:06 PM EDT
[#20]
This is a problem area on the AR10/15, and I see the most popular charge handle design as still in the prototype stages, even 59 years later. Original Hollywood ArmaLite:
The last major design change to the Stoner DI guns came from the Dutch, when they relocated the trigger charge handle with a long shaft to the rear of the sight housing base, and used a right side handle for the paratrooper variant. 
This became the charge handle as we know it, but first going through a "V" shape, then "T" for the handle. 
The biggest problem with it, is the awkwardness of user interface, although seasoned AR15 and AR10 drivers don't think twice about it, and the latch retention with steel on aluminum in the latch recess. 
That being said, I don't recall one single CH ever releasing with recoil and hitting my nose over 10 years in the Army in units where we literally abused the guns with dry cycling and live fire, not at any time on my personal guns dating back to 1988 with the first Colt Sporter II AR15 we had. There is a video of Jerry Miculek on his rifle DVD, where you can see the charge handle come loose and actually reciprocate in slow-motion. Start at 2:50 for the example Brownell's J Miculek DVD Excerpt There is also a video of a SIG516 doing it on full auto that is clearly visible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBx1HQTAyxM 
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Posted: 11/6/2014 12:04:23 PM EDT
[#21]
So are most charge handle latches steel or AL? Because the GII one is not magnetic. Not that I think that should matter, 16 rounds shouldn't lead to failure.
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Posted: 11/6/2014 2:10:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So are most charge handle latches steel or AL? Because the GII one is not magnetic. Not that I think that should matter, 16 rounds shouldn't lead to failure. Most CH latches are aluminum, to include the standard useless ones, as well as top-end ones like the BCM GunFighter models. The Badger Tac Latch with the large square opening is in fact a steel piece, which could be the problem here. One thing I will add is that I personally have become very particular with how I operate the CH. What I end up doing it preventing the CH latch from ever riding over the ramp into the recess. When I grab the handle with my left hand, it is from the side, not over the top with 2 fingers. I use the finger-thumb pinch method, and lock the bolt to the rear. I also Cerakote my upper receivers and lay on as much material as I can in that area, with certain techniques in the mixture to provide a slicker, harder surface. It's one of the areas I don't like on the AR15 and AR10 production guns, and like I said, it is my opinion that we are still working with a prototype-grade CH arrangement. I have made suggestions to some manufacturers about how to deal with this using modern coatings, but we will see if there is much response to it moving forward. If I were a manufacturer and wanted to offer a factory option similar to the Badger Tac Latch, I would use an aluminum latch, preferably the PRI latch, or the Black Rain Ordnance 7075 T6 latch. |
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Posted: 11/6/2014 3:01:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please use my misfortune as the best opinion one can get about DPMS... New or old, DPMS makes shit! I keep hearing this, but, here's the thing: Out of several people I know, who have owned and own DPMS rifles (primarily DCM style match rifles), none of them have had major problems with them, save the one guy who shot his enough to shoot out the barrel. (DPMS took care of him on that one, even though he didn't ask them to nor did he expect them to, BTW). Stuff like that really elevates their stock, in my eyes. I'm sure one doesn't have to look as hard to find a DPMS turd as you would to find a Colt turd or a turd from another manufacturer on or above Colt's level. At their price point, you have to trade something and the assurance that you probably will not get a turd is one of the things you trade. I have every confidence that a manufacturer who had been around as long as DPMS will take care of you, should you get a turd. Honestly, they seem to be stepping up their game, as of late. I'll probably never own a DPMS AR-15, but I'm not ruling out a DPMS .308. I very nearly bought one, the day I bought my MP-10. |
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Posted: 11/6/2014 3:24:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are dead set on .308, then this is my advice as well. The GII Hunter is the best balanced AR10 on the market right now. http://dpms-gii.com/assets/img/content/[email protected] If you want faster follow-up shot capability, less recoil, ammunition specifically designed to operate from a gas gun, and compatibility with the AR15 family of weapons, I would have you look at the 6.5 Grendel AR15 instead. http://www.jprifles.com/document_images/307.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In you price range there is only one true choice...DPMS G2...hunter model is probably best for you. If you are dead set on .308, then this is my advice as well. The GII Hunter is the best balanced AR10 on the market right now. http://dpms-gii.com/assets/img/content/[email protected] If you want faster follow-up shot capability, less recoil, ammunition specifically designed to operate from a gas gun, and compatibility with the AR15 family of weapons, I would have you look at the 6.5 Grendel AR15 instead. http://www.jprifles.com/document_images/307.jpg That's nice. Barrel needs more threading, but I like the free float and the stock. |
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Posted: 11/7/2014 7:40:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Thank you, I like it. When she gets back to me, if she doesn't try to break my nose again, and the pieces I put on the old one are returned with the new one..., I will express how great the customer service is at DPMS, according to UPS tracking, that should be Monday...
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Posted: 11/7/2014 11:46:13 PM EDT
[#26]
If there is a Badger Tac Latch still on it, my suggestion would be to remove it from the charge handle, and install an aluminum latch. Also, grease up that area on the latch and recess, and pinch the latch against the handle from one side when you retract it, rather than applying tension with both fingers on both sides of the "T".
DPMS has always had good CS in my experience, but I felt it was for things that should have been caught in a QC process. I really think your issue revolves the steel Badger latch, not the gun. |
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Posted: 11/8/2014 12:07:31 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 11/8/2014 10:29:20 AM EDT
[#28]
THAT WAS AWESOME!
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Posted: 11/10/2014 8:32:18 PM EDT
[#29]
I looked at the PRI latch, and all 3 types are steel...?
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Posted: 11/11/2014 1:37:12 AM EDT
[#30]
.308 choice is the SIG 716.
For a shorty .30 caliber the SIG 556R still packs .30 caliber punch in a smaller package. 
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Posted: 11/11/2014 4:28:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I looked at the PRI latch, and all 3 types are steel...? Get the Black Rain Ordnance 7075 T6 Latch: Black Rain Ordnance Brownell's Site Sponsor 
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Posted: 11/19/2014 6:47:23 AM EDT
[#32]
Quick update, the SASS has returned with a new top receiver, all parts I added were put back on it... it looks great, but I'm afraid to shoot it in fear for my nose...
Regardless if I ever shoot it again, DPMS held up their side and replaced the faulty receiver, and had it back to me in a very short period of time... I appreciate the customer service of DPMS, and apologize for being so harsh on them. If I ever get the nerve to shoot it again, I will post the results., (whether or not I have a dent in my face. Lol) |
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Posted: 11/19/2014 12:24:11 PM EDT
[#33]
I don't think it's the receiver. It's that Badger steel Tac Latch. They are notorious for wearing down the latch recess ramp prematurely, especially if you operate the charge handle using the old school method, as opposed to how the more modern techniques of pinching it on the side before retracting.
Put the latch on it I posted above, and drive on. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 5:56:59 AM EDT
[#34]
Update! I finally got the new SASS out to the woods to try out... After replacing the latch, and the new receiver the CH no longer takes a swing at my nose... she shoots like a dream! I once again want to thank DPMS for their exemplary customer service!, and appreciate the speed in which they had this issue resolved...
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Posted: 12/3/2014 7:55:20 AM EDT
[#35]
I just ordered the PSA PTAC .308 which will serve as my primary hog rifle. I plan on running a red dot as majority of my shots are within 100yards in the thick Georgia swamp!
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