Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page AR-15 » AR Variants
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 9/26/2014 1:28:21 PM EDT



I have two  AR guns in 5.56 and one cheaper but IMO decent ak47(m70 npap).   I'm definitely jumping the "gun" so to speak  in that I haven't even shot my AR's yet due to time issues and death in the family obligations.   I did love the builds though and thinking I want to add another variant.



reasons for wanting another gun

1.  Just because

2.  Possible hunting should I need it.  Shtf scenario for deer etc..  This is a reach tho as a regular ar or AK would probably suffice if pressed into service.  No rifle hunting now in my state for deer, just coyotes

3.  More punch vs 5.56. with the AK I have that there.  308 would be better stand off weapon in shtf world, but would a different gun like the p91(clone of hk) be a better choice?

4.  I was considering the ar 7.62*39/ variants but seems to hit and miss in regards to reliable function , mags etc...and IMO maybe just better getting a second AK at that point



At this point were I to buy something today to it would be the 300bo, and run supersonic loads, as it seems to be the best bridge between 5.56 and 7.62*39.  I'd still probably end up with a 308 gun at some pt.  I plan to shoot about 500-1000 rounds a month until I consider myself somewhat proficient.  That figure though is likely total of all rounds in all guns, due to time and $ limitations, even reloading would get expensive not to mention too much time for me at that point.  Wish I had more of each lol.



 
 
 
 
 

 
Link Posted: 9/26/2014 10:15:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Get a 308, it is a step up in power as opposed to your other choices.
Link Posted: 9/26/2014 10:30:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:


I have two  AR guns in 5.56 and one cheaper but IMO decent ak47(m70 npap).   I'm definitely jumping the "gun" so to speak  in that I haven't even shot my AR's yet due to time issues and death in the family obligations.   I did love the builds though and thinking I want to add another variant.

reasons for wanting another gun
1.  Just because
2.  Possible hunting should I need it.  Shtf scenario for deer etc..  This is a reach tho as a regular ar or AK would probably suffice if pressed into service.  No rifle hunting now in my state for deer, just coyotes
3.  More punch vs 5.56. with the AK I have that there.  308 would be better stand off weapon in shtf world, but would a different gun like the p91(clone of hk) be a better choice?
4.  I was considering the ar 7.62*39/ variants but seems to hit and miss in regards to reliable function , mags etc...and IMO maybe just better getting a second AK at that point

At this point were I to buy something today to it would be the 300bo, and run supersonic loads, as it seems to be the best bridge between 5.56 and 7.62*39.  I'd still probably end up with a 308 gun at some pt.  I plan to shoot about 500-1000 rounds a month until I consider myself somewhat proficient.  That figure though is likely total of all rounds in all guns, due to time and $ limitations, even reloading would get expensive not to mention too much time for me at that point.  Wish I had more of each lol.
           
View Quote

Hi,

You have my condolences on the death in your family, it can be really hard.  Yeah, doing builds can be fun, and a decent hobby, be forewarned it can be addictive.  The 7.62x39 will really do most of the stuff that a 308 will do at close range.  My 7.62x39 AR worked out well for me and is inexpensive to shoot.  Right now with 7.62x39 it would cost around $35 a week to shoot 500 rounds a month.  Your costs would be substantially higher doing that in 308 or 300 BO.   I would investigate the 7.62x39 AR's again CPD Inc. puts out reliable magazines and the cartridge is much more accurate out of an AR than AK.

Best Wishes:  
Link Posted: 9/26/2014 11:12:31 PM EDT
[#3]
SHTF always makes more sense to have 5.56mm. Your ammo needs will be the same as your local police and military as are the magazines. In a national emergency ammo compatibility is priceless. The reason the gov. went to 5.56mm is the lighter weight rifle and ammo made it possible for the average soldier to carry twice as much ammo compared to .30-06 or 7.62x51mm. Try picking up a 12lb. rifle with optic and 6 loaded .308 magazines and going for a three mile walk. You get the picture. Also women and even ten year old children can use an AR-15 in .223 and not wince in pain. They become a force multiplier when the chips are down.

Spend your money on better ammo and more of it. Buy some decent optics. Your rear is already covered.
Link Posted: 9/27/2014 1:09:41 AM EDT
[#4]
If you want to stay in the AR platform with a bigger, supersonic round than 556, there are better choices than 300 blk.  That round is really designed for being suppressed and is pretty limited in range.  I would look at 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel for better supersonic performance, they both still run on AR15 receivers.
Link Posted: 9/27/2014 1:40:39 AM EDT
[#5]
+1 for 6.5g. adds longer range to the AR15 platform. Really a great round.
Link Posted: 9/27/2014 4:45:13 AM EDT
[#6]
My 2 cents. I have built plenty of 5.56 ar's so I had to build a different caliber but the thought of cost when it comes to the .300 blackout makes that a no no for a play toy. But the fact I can buy 180 rds of 7.62x39 for 40 bucks out the door for a bullet that packs a punch and since I shoot it out of a custom built ak47 that puts it down range in very decent groupings I was willing to go that route. I have just finished my build and will be taking it out today for its 1st run so hoping for the best. I did buy my barrel and bcg from gun broker for cheap so just hoping for the best lol but I did buy the asc mag which I heard works best. Be careful when buying your mags! To many people trying to over charge for the same mag! Mine cost 22 shipped not the 30 plus 8 most places wanted. The bcg I brought need some love because the firing pin was just wrong! So hoping for the best. I do realize I will need the better bolt and pin one day.  As I said hoping for the best and if all works well I will upgrade when I can. So imo do the 7.62x39 for your 1st .30 cal build then go from there
Link Posted: 9/27/2014 6:20:32 AM EDT
[#7]
If you reload and cast then the 300 blk is a great choice.  Contrary to populor opinion it is not designed for subsonic only.  The parameters set were to be able to have the ability to shoot both subsonic and super sonic by simply changing the magazine.  Plenty of guys have got it just for super sonic loads.

There are other rounds to consider that fit in the AR15 platform. 7.62X39, 6.5 grendal, 6.8spc, 7.62x40.

At 100 yds with equivalent loads very few people would be able to tell the difference.
Link Posted: 9/27/2014 11:20:50 AM EDT
[#8]
I own several 5.56 rifles, a few AK47 variants and even a Remington 700 R5 rifle.  If you are limited financially, I would say keep it simple.  The 5.56 is popular for a reason.  It is a inexpensive and a very common US round.  With new bullet and powder advancements, there is a 5.56 round that can handle most situation, at least for a SHTF situation.  I like the Winchester (And Corbon) 69 grain 223 and Hornady 77 grain 5.56 Superformance rounds, for specialty work.  

All that being said, I've recently built a couple of 300 AAC Blackout Pistols (9" Barrels), with the Sig SB15 forearm stabilizers on them.  It strays from a NATO round but since you use all your 5.56 Rifle, except adding a new barrel, it makes it an easy transition.  If you have the ability to use your 5.56 brass, to make your own 300 Blackout ammunition, even better!  They ballistics are impressive for a short barreled weapon.  These weapons are very valuable for realistic everyday social work.  The more convenient something is, the more likely you'll have it with you, when you need it.
Link Posted: 9/27/2014 11:43:10 AM EDT
[#9]
My 7.62x39 AR is a lot of fun and cheap to shoot. If you aren't going for a suppressed build I would skip the blackout.



My preference for non 5.56 AR's goes something like this:

Suppressed subsonic SBR .300

Supersonic SBR 6.8

Fun cheap SBR 7.62x39

Light weight SPR 6.5 Grendel

Heavy SPR 6.5 Creedmor

Heavy but don't want to reload .308



Link Posted: 9/27/2014 11:48:09 AM EDT
[#10]
I'm going to clarify my opinion a little more...

You already have 2x 556 ARs. 556 pretty much does what the 300 blk and 7.62 would do for you too. The only advantage the 7.62 has is you can buy cases of ammo cheaper. But, you may fight reliability issues with the rifle you build or magazines, which I have read can be pretty common.

Then you have the 308. It is truly a more powerful round that the 556. 556 can be loaded for deer, hogs and can me effective out to 150 yards or so. You can also load it to reach out and punch paper or take out small vermin out to 400+ yards. But a 308, you can stretch that out to 1000 yards. Just something to keep in mind in case you ever decide to do some serious hunting. My pop ran into a guy up in VA back in his hunting days that used to take his deer every year, shooting across a valley at one deer crossing. They were making fun of him b/c he had his 308 zeroed at 1000 yards until they saw him take is deer one day. You are gonna do that with 556, 300 or 7.62...  308 is also a common round that you can buy at walmart unlike 300 blk..
Link Posted: 9/27/2014 12:28:54 PM EDT
[#11]
308 = power & ammo availability & excellent hunting round....you owe me a premium cigar for my consultation services and confusion diffusion
Link Posted: 9/27/2014 3:52:03 PM EDT
[#12]
I have never had a issue with my 7.62x39 just get asc mags and redxarms has enhanced firing pins for 10 bucks
Link Posted: 9/27/2014 5:41:39 PM EDT
[#13]

no wide open areas really around me much.  Farthest I could see taking a shot of any sort would be 150-maybe 200 yards.  Lot of woods around our house so I'm assuming any shtf defense would be rather close and 50-100 yard ranges or closer.


If the 7.62x39 was a reliable platform I would really like one of those, as I wouldn't have to worry about reloading as rounds are dirt cheap.  I wish they still made those receivers where you could use AK mags.  Would be more convenient to stock mags.


The 6.5 Grendel really isn't on my radar at this point.  Not that it's not fully capable etc...,, ,but I don't think my skill level would take advantage of it, and I don't see myself having time to practice on that many platforms.  So I have to practice some KISS.


I will probably end up with a 308 variant at some point, but not sure if that is soon or later.  The more I read about the 300BO and how it's optimized for shorter barrels like 8-12" I do get more curious about building that, but man I just hate to think about all the forms, tax stamps, PIA hoops and extra $ etc...  Once I can get my cheap butt over that mental hurdle I think I can pull the trigger, but my paranoid side says maybe I don't want to be on "that list".....


Link Posted: 9/27/2014 10:06:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Maybe I got lucky but todays test run was flawless. No ftf or anything. I used 22 asc mags,a 100 barrel off ebay,bcg for 115 off gunbroker that came with wolf power springs and I didn't even use them. So for 237 I have the parts that worked. And if you figure the cost of any barrel,bcg or good mag I did ok for lower end parts. And using magpul sights worked great and was hitting bowling pins at 300yrds. Do the cheap 7.62x39. I am happy but now I want a .308....never ends!
Link Posted: 9/28/2014 11:22:01 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Maybe I got lucky but todays test run was flawless. No ftf or anything. I used 22 asc mags,a 100 barrel off ebay,bcg for 115 off gunbroker that came with wolf power springs and I didn't even use them. So for 237 I have the parts that worked. And if you figure the cost of any barrel,bcg or good mag I did ok for lower end parts. And using magpul sights worked great and was hitting bowling pins at 300yrds. Do the cheap 7.62x39. I am happy but now I want a .308....never ends!
View Quote



ASC seems to have set itself apart from the poor quality of the old C-Products. I have personally bought their 308 mags which allow for longer OAL and have run reliably in my LR308. And I have read others have good dealings with the company with their products and even warranty when needed.
Link Posted: 9/28/2014 1:17:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



ASC seems to have set itself apart from the poor quality of the old C-Products. I have personally bought their 308 mags which allow for longer OAL and have run reliably in my LR308. And I have read others have good dealings with the company with their products and even warranty when needed.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe I got lucky but todays test run was flawless. No ftf or anything. I used 22 asc mags,a 100 barrel off ebay,bcg for 115 off gunbroker that came with wolf power springs and I didn't even use them. So for 237 I have the parts that worked. And if you figure the cost of any barrel,bcg or good mag I did ok for lower end parts. And using magpul sights worked great and was hitting bowling pins at 300yrds. Do the cheap 7.62x39. I am happy but now I want a .308....never ends!



ASC seems to have set itself apart from the poor quality of the old C-Products. I have personally bought their 308 mags which allow for longer OAL and have run reliably in my LR308. And I have read others have good dealings with the company with their products and even warranty when needed.

I think the old CProducts firm was trying too hard to do too many things.  Many of their products were assembled in "protected workshops," where people with substantial disabilities do productive work under close supervision.  The problem seems to be that the supervision and training weren't there, and neither was the QC.  That could also be said of the parts themselves.  ASC is made up of former CProducts employees who were there for the whole "down the tubes" debacle, and who wanted to make sure that the same things didn't happen with their products.

The new CProducts Defense company is completely separate, having purchased most of the old CProducts' intellectual property.  They heavily use robotic processes, including welding magazine bodies and assembly, so their mags are very, very consistent.  I'd go with their mags, or ASC's without blinking (but I always recommend thoroughly testing new magazines before betting your life on them).
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 1:16:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Another vote for the Grendel. The beauty of the Grendel is the light recoil and resistance to wind drift. It makes hunting with the AR15 a much easier endeavor, especially for someone new to shooting.

If you're interested in an SBR, I've got a group buy going on for barrels right now.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?8891-Grendel-Short-Barrel-Group-Buy-Orders
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 2:04:15 PM EDT
[#18]
The biggest attractors to the 7.62x39 AR are energy and cheap ammo availability.  It takes some know how to build an AR15 in 7.62x39 that works, and the feed system is only one portion of that equation.

Bore diameter, gas system, bolt geometry, extractor geometry, metallurgy, and recoil system are often overlooked, but the few companies that have done engineering analysis on it know what they are doing.  It isn't simply a matter of dropping in a barrel, bolt, and mags and going to town.

Since there is now 6.5 Grendel Steel cased ammo, the cheap ammo advantage of 7.62x39 goes away.

Link Posted: 9/30/2014 2:07:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Most 7.62x39 AR issues are mag related, ASC seems to have the best rep here and are what I use exclusively.
I used a chainsaw file and widened my feed ramps.
I run a 5.4oz buffer & Wolff xtra power buffer spring, smooths out recoil and slowing the cycling down seemed to help.
Although I never had any issues with my stock 7.62x39 bolt or firing pin I did upgrade to an LMT bolt & Model 1 enhanced firing pin after about 1k rounds. LMT doesn't make bolts anymore but I read good things about Liberty Gun works/Cason Engineering bolts.
Although I mainly shoot surplus Yugo M67 (brass case) I can run Wolf, Brown Bear, Monarch & Golden Tiger steel case reliably. Tula doesn't like the heavy buffer but will run fine with a standard carbine buffer. 300 BO and .308 are strong calibers but don't write off 7.62x39 just cause someone says it's not reliable.  
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 2:42:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
no wide open areas really around me much.  Farthest I could see taking a shot of any sort would be 150-maybe 200 yards.  Lot of woods around our house so I'm assuming any shtf defense would be rather close and 50-100 yard ranges or closer.

If the 7.62x39 was a reliable platform I would really like one of those, as I wouldn't have to worry about reloading as rounds are dirt cheap.  I wish they still made those receivers where you could use AK mags.  Would be more convenient to stock mags.

The 6.5 Grendel really isn't on my radar at this point.  Not that it's not fully capable etc...,, ,but I don't think my skill level would take advantage of it, and I don't see myself having time to practice on that many platforms.  So I have to practice some KISS.

I will probably end up with a 308 variant at some point, but not sure if that is soon or later.  The more I read about the 300BO and how it's optimized for shorter barrels like 8-12" I do get more curious about building that, but man I just hate to think about all the forms, tax stamps, PIA hoops and extra $ etc...  Once I can get my cheap butt over that mental hurdle I think I can pull the trigger, but my paranoid side says maybe I don't want to be on "that list".....

View Quote


In a SHTF scenario you best 2 choices are the 5.56 and .308.
As well in a SHTF scenario I dont want any of my weapons based off a 7.62x39, 5,45x45 or anything else based off those cases.
Thats whats going to dry up first.
If thats a genuine concern.

Out to 200 yards a .300 Black, 6.8 SCPII or really even a dedicated hunting rilfe in 5.56 with 70gr Barnes TSX handloads will get the job done well.
The .308 in the lighter GenII stuff is really attractive now, the weight is getting down nicely and there is no discounting the capabilities of the .308
The .300 Black is the way to go if you want to go subsonic, for supersonic in a short barrel the 6.8 is a better choice with more ammo availibility.

Like many who's opinion I regard highly will say, if you expect to pick up ammo off the field in a SHTF scenario you better think again.
Stock what you expect to ever need.

I hope you enjoy whatever you decide for your next rifle.
They are like Lays potato chips "Bet ya cant build just one"
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 5:45:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Since the Grendel is based (originally) on a 7.62x39 case and has the same case head as that cartridge, I wonder if the steel Wolf WPA ammo uses 7.62x39-type primers?  If so, that makes those cases reloadable, since the 7.62x39 primers are a "standard" size that is available here in the states, unlike other Berdan sizes like those used in 9mm or .223.  Yeah, not "as easily as Boxer primed cases," but once you set up to do it, those Berdan cases ain't that big a deal....
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 5:59:53 PM EDT
[#22]
No Confusion....DO ALL THREE


picture hosting
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 11:13:20 AM EDT
[#23]
From shooting the LR308 yesterday

Link Posted: 10/3/2014 12:38:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
From shooting the LR308 yesterday

http://i58.tinypic.com/dykdj8.jpg
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
From shooting the LR308 yesterday

http://i58.tinypic.com/dykdj8.jpg

Range? Pics of gun?


Quoted:
No Confusion....DO ALL THREE [

<a href="http://postimg.org/image/ybs43d4oz/full/" target="_blank">http://s13.postimg.org/mmo4fedqf/Twipplins.jpg</a>
picture hosting

Barrel length on all 3 please

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 5:21:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Be aware that many states that have been no rifle deer hunting have begun to allow some of the shorter big bore cartridges.  I know the 458socom has been put on the ok list.  Now it is definitely not cheap to shoot.  However if you reload and get a cache of components it becomes much more attractive.  For what the op was describing, shots under 200yds, it would be perfectly suited.  Keep the 556 for shtf scenarios.  Good luck and let us know what you pick up.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 8:48:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Range? Pics of gun?



Barrel length on all 3 please

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
From shooting the LR308 yesterday

http://i58.tinypic.com/dykdj8.jpg

Range? Pics of gun?


Quoted:
No Confusion....DO ALL THREE [

<a href="http://postimg.org/image/ybs43d4oz/full/" target="_blank">http://s13.postimg.org/mmo4fedqf/Twipplins.jpg</a>
picture hosting

Barrel length on all 3 please

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Per request..

100 yards and the PUP (who thought Black Rifle was scariest damn thing on Earth, didn't want to be anywhere near it)


Link Posted: 10/3/2014 10:36:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Per request..

100 yards and the PUP (who thought Black Rifle was scariest damn thing on Earth, didn't want to be anywhere near it)

http://i60.tinypic.com/2ptnjp2.jpg
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
From shooting the LR308 yesterday

http://i58.tinypic.com/dykdj8.jpg

Range? Pics of gun?


Quoted:
No Confusion....DO ALL THREE [

<a href="http://postimg.org/image/ybs43d4oz/full/" target="_blank">http://s13.postimg.org/mmo4fedqf/Twipplins.jpg</a>
picture hosting

Barrel length on all 3 please

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Per request..

100 yards and the PUP (who thought Black Rifle was scariest damn thing on Earth, didn't want to be anywhere near it)

http://i60.tinypic.com/2ptnjp2.jpg

Sweet
Ya, my dogs aren't gun dogs either


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 11:35:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Sweet
Ya, my dogs aren't gun dogs either


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
From shooting the LR308 yesterday

http://i58.tinypic.com/dykdj8.jpg

Range? Pics of gun?


Quoted:
No Confusion....DO ALL THREE [

<a href="http://postimg.org/image/ybs43d4oz/full/" target="_blank">http://s13.postimg.org/mmo4fedqf/Twipplins.jpg</a>
picture hosting

Barrel length on all 3 please

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Per request..

100 yards and the PUP (who thought Black Rifle was scariest damn thing on Earth, didn't want to be anywhere near it)

http://i60.tinypic.com/2ptnjp2.jpg

Sweet
Ya, my dogs aren't gun dogs either


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

25 years ago I had a Rotweiller that weighed 150lbs, he would let me use his head for a rest.
Best damn dog I ever had.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 11:44:24 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If you want to stay in the AR platform with a bigger, supersonic round than 556, there are better choices than 300 blk.  That round is really designed for being suppressed and is pretty limited in range.  I would look at 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel for better supersonic performance, they both still run on AR15 receivers.
View Quote



I disagree. 300blk has complete parts interchangeability with 5.56 except the barrel itself , the other variants do not. When reloading there is also commonality. You can used 5.56 cases cut down and 7.62 / .308 projectiles. Both easier to find in a pinch than 6.8 or 6.5 components. You could even pull 7.62 projectiles from 30-06!
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 12:42:16 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I disagree. 300blk has complete parts interchangeability with 5.56 except the barrel itself , the other variants do not. When reloading there is also commonality. You can used 5.56 cases cut down and 7.62 / .308 projectiles. Both easier to find in a pinch than 6.8 or 6.5 components. You could even pull 7.62 projectiles from 30-06!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you want to stay in the AR platform with a bigger, supersonic round than 556, there are better choices than 300 blk.  That round is really designed for being suppressed and is pretty limited in range.  I would look at 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel for better supersonic performance, they both still run on AR15 receivers.



I disagree. 300blk has complete parts interchangeability with 5.56 except the barrel itself , the other variants do not. When reloading there is also commonality. You can used 5.56 cases cut down and 7.62 / .308 projectiles. Both easier to find in a pinch than 6.8 or 6.5 components. You could even pull 7.62 projectiles from 30-06!


6.8 components are easy to get now.
New brass by Hornady, SSA, Federal and Remington
Once fired by the above and S&B
6.8 specfic projectiles by Hornady, Barnes, Speer, Nosler
Fire any .270 bullets to 140 grains.

As well, in a pinch if you dont have um none are easy to find.
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 1:32:33 AM EDT
[#31]
I agree with Supperman, I see this as an both/and not either/or choice. I have tried to consolidate on a single caliber, when I have had periods of regular practice. But, when this is interrupted, as it always is, by the time I am regularly shooting again I have had several reasons to buy additional calibers for other interesting weapons again.

Then as I shoot, the weapons which are not as accurate tend to become less interesting. I probably would own fewer firearms if I was continually buying a steady diet of reloading components.

I know of several .308 ar rifles which were converted to either .300 RSAUM or .300 Ruger Magnum. This would be easier if Armalite still offered the AR-10 bolt made for the purpose. But, it still could be done. I mention this only to provide extra information for consideration.

If I was absolutely forced to choose one caliber it would be .308 even thought .300 blackout is capable of doing everything I would NEED it for. It is not like I have many opportunities for long distance shooting off of a range in eastern Wisconsin, or the upper peninsula of MI.

DB
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 10:24:53 AM EDT
[#32]


Quoted:
The more I read about the 300BO and how it's optimized for shorter barrels like 8-12" I do get more curious about building that, but man I just hate to think about all the forms, tax stamps, PIA hoops and extra $ etc... Once I can get my cheap butt over that mental hurdle I think I can pull the trigger, but my paranoid side says maybe I don't want to be on "that list".....
View Quote


Not to pop your bubble, BUT, I believe that Illinois is a Non-Class III state.  I lived in IL for over 20 years and was pretty familiar with the gun laws there, so you may have to go with a pistol build, instead of an SBR.  Unless they changed the laws.

Also, I'd go with a dedicated 308/7.62X51 NATO, mainly due to it's being a standard Military/Police cartridge.  Then get an upper half in either 300BO or 6.5 Grendal for fun.




Link Posted: 10/4/2014 5:14:50 PM EDT
[#33]
It appears that Illinois requires one to have a C&R FFL in order to legally own an SBR (which means you'd have to have the C&R before applying for the stamp).  A C&R FFL costs $30 for 3 years, and takes NO interaction with one's CLEO.  That pretty much means that you should be able to go the SBR route as long as you can get that Form 1 signed off on, or if you establish a trust and get the C&R in the name of the trust.  Not too sure how that works (mine is separate from my trust), but that should work well.
Link Posted: 10/4/2014 10:20:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Just get the 308. One caliber that can do just about anything.

If it's not enough get a Nemo AR in 300 Win mag. Yes a 300 Win mag AR. Kind of makes talking about the 556 and blackout a waste of time.
Link Posted: 10/5/2014 9:44:13 AM EDT
[#35]
I have an AR in .308, but I've also built one in 300 Blackout. The two rounds have different capabilities and uses.  A .308 will have longer effective range and better "punch" at longer ranges, but it's hell to suppress.  A 300 Blackout has shorter effective range, but can be WELL silenced, and it has less recoil and the ammo weighs less.  300 Blackout is more flexible in a gas-operated gun, with a variety of different bullet weights and velocities available, while .308 usually needs to be within a specific window of bullet weight and velocity to run reliably.

An AR in .308 can do a lot of things, but it is not "the" answer for "something other than 5.56mm"  It's ONE answer for some applications.  OP, go ahead and get a .308, but don't shy away from the 300 just because it's not everyone's cup of tea.
Link Posted: 10/5/2014 3:24:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Just get the 308. One caliber that can do just about anything.

If it's not enough get a Nemo AR in 300 Win mag. Yes a 300 Win mag AR. Kind of makes talking about the 556 and blackout a waste of time.
View Quote


The .308 is not the One caliber that can do just about anything.

It cannot save on weight. Everything about the .308 is heavier than the 300BLK and when you have to carry it further than your car to the bench rest it makes a big difference.

It cannot reduce recoil. For ease of use both on your shoulder and faster follow up shots the 300BLK has a big advantage over the .308.

It cannot increase magazine capacity. I can carry less mags and still have more rounds available to me on my 300BLK than when I take my .308 out into the field. This also helps with weight and storage on your person and back home.

It cannot save on cost. I reload mostly and it costs me more in brass and powder to reload than it does for the 300BLK. Since the .308 and 300BLK use the same range of bullets from 110gr to 240gr there is no savings there but the choices of bullets available offer a lot more than any other caliber mentioned in this thread most of which don't have access to cheap military surplus rounds that make plinking more affordable.

It cannot do commonality. Everything about the .308 is different than the AR-15. It doesn't use the same bolt, barrel, lower, magazines, stocks, handguards, triggers. Even on the ones that look like the AR-15 have multiple models such as DPMS, Armalite, Knights, Larue. All look very similar but very few of the parts are interchangeable.

This increases cost and decreases availability of components compared to the 300BLK. Which uses the same everything as the AR-15 except for the barrel.

I have a .308 and like it but unless I need to get out past 800 yards it mostly sits in the safe and for hunting in places where shots are usually less than 200 yards I would feel ridiculous carrying a heavier gun with a longer barrel out into the field unless I was hunting bear, moose or elk otherwise it just doesn't make sense. Especially when the 300BLK is more than capable of taking any medium sized game at that range.

As for your puny 300 Win mag it has nothing on my 50BMG so why waste your time talking about such inferior rounds.

Link Posted: 10/5/2014 3:44:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


As for your puny 300 Win mag it has nothing on my 50BMG so why waste your time talking about such inferior rounds.

View Quote


20mm vulcan it is the only way to make sure you have enough gun
Link Posted: 10/5/2014 9:03:57 PM EDT
[#38]
For me I did this..

AK for 25-350 yards max
AK pistol (SBR) for shots 25-300 yards.
AR15 for 25-500 yards max
AR in 308 for shots from 300-800 yards.

I have shot abit.. so my 14.5" BCM (AR15) with irons can do 500 yard shots standing onto a 16" disc pretty reliably.
The AK (Saiga) has made repeated hits at 250 and 300 yards. I have tagged the 16" gong at 500 yards after 4 shots..
The AR in 308 has tagged the 16" disc at 750 yards, with a scope.
Link Posted: 10/5/2014 9:44:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
For me I did this..

AK for 25-350 yards max
AK pistol (SBR) for shots 25-300 yards.
AR15 for 25-500 yards max
AR in 308 for shots from 300-800 yards.

I have shot abit.. so my 14.5" BCM (AR15) with irons can do 500 yard shots standing onto a 16" disc pretty reliably.
The AK (Saiga) has made repeated hits at 250 and 300 yards. I have tagged the 16" gong at 500 yards after 4 shots..
The AR in 308 has tagged the 16" disc at 750 yards, with a scope.
View Quote

What rifle do you use for under 25yds?
Is 800 the max distance you have to shoot the .308?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/6/2014 1:13:04 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
No Confusion....DO ALL THREE

<a href="http://postimg.org/image/ybs43d4oz/full/" target="_blank">http://s13.postimg.org/mmo4fedqf/Twipplins.jpg</a>
picture hosting
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/6/2014 3:44:44 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

What rifle do you use for under 25yds?
Is 800 the max distance you have to shoot the .308?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
For me I did this..

AK for 25-350 yards max
AK pistol (SBR) for shots 25-300 yards.
AR15 for 25-500 yards max
AR in 308 for shots from 300-800 yards.

I have shot abit.. so my 14.5" BCM (AR15) with irons can do 500 yard shots standing onto a 16" disc pretty reliably.
The AK (Saiga) has made repeated hits at 250 and 300 yards. I have tagged the 16" gong at 500 yards after 4 shots..
The AR in 308 has tagged the 16" disc at 750 yards, with a scope.

What rifle do you use for under 25yds?
Is 800 the max distance you have to shoot the .308?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


I have a 1000yd range on my property. under 25yds I use my pistol.

The numbers I posted take in repeated hits for me and the 'lethal range' factor as well something the OP should consider. IMO
Link Posted: 10/6/2014 9:55:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Range? Pics of gun?



Barrel length on all 3 please

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
From shooting the LR308 yesterday

http://i58.tinypic.com/dykdj8.jpg

Range? Pics of gun?


Quoted:
No Confusion....DO ALL THREE [

<a href="http://postimg.org/image/ybs43d4oz/full/" target="_blank">http://s13.postimg.org/mmo4fedqf/Twipplins.jpg</a>
picture hosting

Barrel length on all 3 please

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


11"      16"        16"
Link Posted: 10/6/2014 1:11:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Be aware that many states that have been no rifle deer hunting have begun to allow some of the shorter big bore cartridges.  I know the 458socom has been put on the ok list.  Now it is definitely not cheap to shoot.  However if you reload and get a cache of components it becomes much more attractive.  For what the op was describing, shots under 200yds, it would be perfectly suited.  Keep the 556 for shtf scenarios.  Good luck and let us know what you pick up.
View Quote



I literally purchase a lifetime supply of .458 brass several years ago.  Had disposable funds, said "fuck it, I'm foing" and purchased over 1500 pieces or brass.  I've only had to throw away 3 pieces over the years so far....
Link Posted: 10/6/2014 1:15:11 PM EDT
[#44]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It appears that Illinois requires one to have a C&R FFL in order to legally own an SBR (which means you'd have to have the C&R before applying for the stamp).  A C&R FFL costs $30 for 3 years, and takes NO interaction with one's CLEO.  That pretty much means that you should be able to go the SBR route as long as you can get that Form 1 signed off on, or if you establish a trust and get the C&R in the name of the trust.  Not too sure how that works (mine is separate from my trust), but that should work well.
View Quote
This will be rejected by ATF. The trust cannot hold a C&R. IL residents will have to go the individual route.



 
Link Posted: 10/6/2014 5:40:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This will be rejected by ATF. The trust cannot hold a C&R. IL residents will have to go the individual route.
 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
It appears that Illinois requires one to have a C&R FFL in order to legally own an SBR (which means you'd have to have the C&R before applying for the stamp).  A C&R FFL costs $30 for 3 years, and takes NO interaction with one's CLEO.  That pretty much means that you should be able to go the SBR route as long as you can get that Form 1 signed off on, or if you establish a trust and get the C&R in the name of the trust.  Not too sure how that works (mine is separate from my trust), but that should work well.
This will be rejected by ATF. The trust cannot hold a C&R. IL residents will have to go the individual route.
 
Crap.  I knew that there would be a snag in that.....
Link Posted: 10/13/2014 8:45:11 PM EDT
[#46]
If you are primarily looking for a shtf gun that can do it all... 308 is the way to go. It is almost always better to bring too much than not enough. AR10 vs. piston AR10 vs. HK clone, etc. is another question entirely.

For that, I would get something that will run even when wet and dirty sorda like an AK. An AR10 gasser is a much less forgiving animal than an AK or HK style bolt system. But the AR is generally more acturate.

Edit: Forgot to say that I love my 300blk. Was a .223 and all I bought was a Noveske barrel....done. It is now my go-to-hunter. East coast hunting, short shooting lanes. My 308 is for hunting if my shooting lanes get longer than 200 yards.
Link Posted: 10/13/2014 9:03:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If you are primarily looking for a shtf gun that can do it all... 308 is the way to go. It is almost always better to bring too much than not enough. AR10 vs. piston AR10 vs. HK clone, etc. is another question entirely.

For that, I would get something that will run even when wet and dirty sorda like an AK. An AR10 gasser is a much less forgiving animal than an AK or HK style bolt system. But the AR is generally more acturate.

Edit: Forgot to say that I love my 300blk. Was a .223 and all I bought was a Noveske barrel....done. It is now my go-to-hunter. East coast hunting, short shooting lanes. My 308 is for hunting if my shooting lanes get longer than 200 yards.
View Quote


I disagree with your post almost entirely.
99.87% of shtf scenarios could be solved with situational awareness and a g19

TEOTWAWKI is different. That's where a krink would thrive (if you want to consider 762x39). Reliable, good around vehicles and hallways, and light enough to be slung and carried for all those daily chores that don't require a rifle. I'll agree that a 308AR would be a nice spare weapon for a bug-in scenario. No way would I ruck with one by choice. 77g 556 does everything I need.

4moa AK should be more than accurate for anything you can justify slinging lead at.

And while we're being honest, most people will need a new muzzle device and gas tube as well to run 300blk

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Page AR-15 » AR Variants
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top