Glad to hear that you're looking at "modular".  I was going to suggest going the way of an upper "kit" where the end-user supplies their own barrel and muzzle device.  That way everyone can have their 1:7 or 1:9 or chrome-lined or SBR or .300blk or whatever barrel configuration they'd like.

I would be inclined to agree.  Extruded upper. Modern mfg technology, modular...

Looks like we're on the same page.

This is exactly what I wanted to hear as well.

Well, everything but the part about Lego's not being for boys...

IDK, the original AR-180 can be repaired with a hacksaw and a file, so it's got that going for it.

Cost?
Interchangeable parts are going to be exponentially cheaper

I'll second the "crowd funding" option. To meet your aforementioned 6 criteria, how much capital would you need?
How many preorders with 25% (?) deposits would you need.

Sorry if those are too personal
I'll also "vote" for a "upper kit" without barrel or muzzle device if it could indeed take AR barrels.
Lowers the price point and potentially nets more customers. If you're looking for more unsolicited advice, I'd offer a few run of the mill 1:7 and 1:9 barrels and a "install" fee for customer wanting a range ready package.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Modern, Modular and Simple are probably the best bets you're gonna have. The purists who want only the 180 parts would probably only consider buying the lower if it were all original to the 180 anyway.  So that they may keep it all original just for that reason. Since the lower is already a more modernized version I think it would be good form to continue to update the rifle so that it may potentially be able to compete with other rifles on the market and not just appeal to those who already know and love it.

If and when you're ready to accept pre orders for the upper please let us know. I will be waiting patiently!

Excuse my ignorance but is there any protected intellectual property still associated with the original design that could cause road blocks?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Will you be selling complete lowers as well or just the stripped?

How much weight does the billet lower add over the polymer one?  A pound?

Would you even speculate on the price for an upper? $600? $1100?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I think you guys should really consider some of the crowdfunding options out there for this project.

RocketHub and KickStarter seem to be some of the more popular options.

I will be spending my money on this project.

A revamped AR-180 is something I've caught myself daydreaming about more times than I care to admit and now that you guys are making this happen I suppose my daydreaming will be kicked into high gear again.

A couple of snaps of mine until I get a barrel to shorten up.

That is pure sex!

I want to  kick in on the crowd fund but only if It be with no strings, expectations. conditions or timelines attached and the understanding of no promises made.

There are always unforeseen delays snags, set backs and curve balls in every project not to mention the regular problems to solve that are a normal part of the process..

Take the lower for example. It's looks are deceiving. We would think it a simple matter to get it made but it is not.

R&D on it alone took over a year.

This thread is getting sexual... and I like it.  

Keep working on it.  The Masada put Magpul on the map, people like innovation.  Granted it's not quite on the same level, but it will tweak a a lot of interest.  You might have something really big here.

How much did the steel version weigh?

I can't comment on the stripped receivers but as far as the complete rifles go the 180 B 180 weighs 1/2 pound less than the 180.

The thing is, if the crowdfunding road is taken, the manufacturer should be obligated to provide the product that the funding was accepted for. I am a patient man and I would not mind too much if the product took a year or two to get into full swing. However, if myself and numerous others put money into the project then feet get dragged and the project ends up getting axed, well, that would suck. The point is I would only be interested in that option if NDS is actually 100% a go to work on the project pending funds. I don't want to invest in or pay for other products or projects at this time.

My bet is crowd funding won't happen and wouldn't be accepted if it did.

IMHO&E NDS values their hard earned reputation and working relationships too much to risk them in any way.

An L85A2 style adjustable gas piston would be cool.

NDS is hot shit and has a good rep.



 

Totally fair. Worth an ask,


Interesting.
Well I for one wait with hope

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Have a lot of respect for NoDak.  Purchased at least 5 lowers for my retro builds.  I think I still have four - sold my XM177 clone (Stupid but seemed like a good idea at the time.)

But I digress:

I've handled a number of 180s - the real ones by Costa Mesa, Howa and Sterling.

Bought my first 180 (a Howa) for $160 from a friend who bought it from his pig hunter friend who liked the rifle but preferred using a knife - hunted with dogs.  My friend sold me the 180 cause he bought a Colt AR15.  This was when Colt SP1s where going for about $200 BNIB.  The 180s new were going for about $30-$40 more than the AR15s.  Paid about 3 times more for my current 180 a couple decades ago - now afraid to look at the current prices of the originals.

Original 180s:

The good:  reliable, compact, ambi charging handle (sort of), ambi safety, accurate (if you can work with the trigger).

The bad:  triggers on all the originals are atrocious.  The stock hinge would sometimes crack - my latest Howa required the services of a very, very experienced retired welder to repair (looks better than new!).  The sights are nothing to write home about.  Hand guards loosen and/or break.

Optics platform:  Not the best.  I have both of the current picatinny rails (one by a company mentioned above) and while they are well-made - the dimensions of the bases on the 180s are not always consistent. The rails do not sit level on my particular rifle.

My solution?  I found an original 180 scope (the one with the inverted post) on the EE:




Neutered bayonet lug on Howa (I've seen two different styles):

Howa serialized some of the smaller parts:

Original 180 uppers do come up for sale, rarely, but they do pop up on GB and other auction sites.  A couple years ago I saw a Sterling AR180 upper for sale in one of the auction sites.

A side note:  my current 180 is an early Howa.  As mentioned by previous posters - the SN is on the upper.  It is entirely possible to obtain another later production AR180 upper without SN (Howa, Sterling, Costa Mesa, or Armalite) and put together a rifle without any serial number.  IMHO it would probably be illegal to do so - but it is possible.

Man I would love to order an AR18 lower if I could find an upper.  

Heck I may have to sell some stuff and get the lower anyway it looks great.

you can build your own guns without serial numbers as long as they arent breaking any laws(NFA, etc.) and arent made for the purpose of selling. example being 80% AR lowers..so i dont see why you couldnt put one together..

It appears there are two crowds of AR-180 fans here, the classic and the modern crowd. I love the classic style of the AR-180 but I would prefer an upper with a picatinny rail and a barrel with a more modern twist like a 1/7 or 1/8.

I would suggest you build the complete modern modular upper with interchangeable barrels in 6.8 SPC, .300 Blackout and 5.56 and for the classic crowd you could make a stripped upper receiver with a 1/7 or 1/8 barrel but still with the picatinny rail so we can just swap our classic AR-180 parts to this new barreled upper.

I would buy both because as much as I love my classic AR180, I want a modern AR-180. I do not want or desire any AR-15's, even a piston version.


By the way, if you build a .308 AR-16 version, I would buy that in a heart beat. I would probably even sell some of my FAL's for an AR-16

I'll buy one of your FAL's.

Is there a place that we might be able to find a schematic of an AR-180? Preferably one with a breakdown of the rifle with exact measurements. For research and reference purposes of course.

Modern, please

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

The AR-16 is like a big brother to AR-18 if I remember correctly. Sort of like the way the AR10 is to the AR15.

That would be sweet too. However, I'm still waiting for this new upper to come out first.

Ya, my comment was directing towards the desire for a modern upper with 2014 features. I would have less interest in a purist upper


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I like some of the lesser known Armalites:

"Golden Gun":  http://www.chuckhawks.com/armalite_AR-17.htm


AR-17, a piston AR-10??, AR-16, AR-10:

B-but, we can't.

I understand the want of a modern AR180 but there are a lot of original AR180 owners like myself who want a way to modernize our rifles. The new lower was in the right direction, in my opinion, but I wished it didn't depend on any AR180B parts but just used AR15 parts. I guess that wasn't possible but I wouldn't know since I am not a gun designer. This person on youtube managed to make a lower with all AR15 parts but the hammer and magazine catch had to be modified to work. The hammer was re-profiled so it could strike the 180 firing pin. The magazine release had to be made thinner to lock AR-15 magazines in place and a stop welded in the mag well to keep them from being over inserted.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Hvmxf9cW0[/youtube]
I want a new upper with picatinny rail and a 1/7 or 1/8 barrel but don't want to modify my original AR-180. Worse case scenario, I will have to find a gunsmith to turn me a new barrel for my AR-180.

Thanks - a prototype or?  Looks like a cross between an AR10 and AR16.  Neat!

YMMV

The 180B uses standard AR15 hammer, trigger, disconnector and springs, mag catch mag catch button and springs. You can use AR 15 hammer and trigger pins, they are a little shorter on the ends so they are not flush with the outside surface of the thicker 180B lower.

With the NDS-18 the situation should be the same but in addition to the above it also uses the AR15 front pivot pin spring and detent and also the pistol grip.

Ding Ding Ding DING Ding....We have a WINNER !!!

Build both !

If you build one OR the other you loose sales to which ever crown wanted what your not making.

By building both you also sell lowers to both crowds.

And some will do the arfcom standard and.......get both.




 

Thanks for the info. I guess the situation on AR-180B parts isn't as bad as I thought. I have plenty of AR15 lower parts kits. Now to scrounge the needed AR180B parts. This AR-180 addiction is almost as bad as my FAL addiction.

There is an ar180 in Serenity, the Firefly movie. Was watching it today and thought of this thread.