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Posted: 7/11/2014 9:24:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Truth be told, it could still be done but it would have been better to have used a representative ammo from one of the same lots used for the other testing. I agree but I would put money on the results being different enough to be interesting. Like I said i wouldnt be appropriate for a laboratory white glove test but I would be happy with the results either way. The only gun I ever had a issue with Wolf was my AR10 carbine with a stainless barrel. Broke the extractor but that was years ago. When I get it back together I might try it again with where 308 has gone 
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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:43:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Truth be told, it could still be done but it would have been better to have used a representative ammo from one of the same lots used for the other testing. It may not have been the bullet jacket, either. |
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Posted: 7/11/2014 10:50:14 PM EDT
[#3]
I suspect the steel in the projectile had an effect when the barrel got over 700 degrees and the steel in the barrel started getting a bit plastic.
I suspect it 'engraved back' a bit. That said, I agree with what you are inferring about the fast-burning powder being another factor. |
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Posted: 7/12/2014 6:51:44 PM EDT
[#4]
So the damage was less to do with the ammo and more to do with the ammo in very hot barrels? That makes sense, I guess there's not any issues for normal use. I don't know much to nothing about such things so wading through the masses of information and telling true from false and relevant from irrelevant isn't very easy. Thanks for the clarification
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Posted: 7/12/2014 6:57:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the damage was less to do with the ammo and more to do with the ammo in very hot barrels? That makes sense, I guess there's not any issues for normal use. I don't know much to nothing about such things so wading through the masses of information and telling true from false and relevant from irrelevant isn't very easy. Thanks for the clarification The problem is without a control we will never know
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Posted: 7/12/2014 8:24:22 PM EDT
[#6]
I have a lightweight Colt 1/7 CMV barrel with around 12K in it, at least half is 62 gran Barnul steel jacket. The bore erosion gauge is still well short of the reject for deployment mark. This is my main training and practice rifle so it gets used hard but not abused.
The control should be the same model Bushmaster lucky gunner used and the ammo should exclusively be one type of steel jacketed ammo. |
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Posted: 7/12/2014 8:26:15 PM EDT
[#7]
I am going to say, based on memory of last fall when I gauged it that the gauge went in a bit over a half inch.
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Posted: 7/12/2014 10:20:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
there will even be a nice gel shot pic in Shotgun News in august.......with an early yaw cycle.  Superb photo, David. By chance have you computed the BC? |
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Posted: 7/12/2014 10:39:11 PM EDT
[#9]
can someone who has gotten this stuff confirm whether it's boxer or berdan primed?
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Posted: 7/13/2014 3:08:35 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem is without a control we will never know Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So the damage was less to do with the ammo and more to do with the ammo in very hot barrels? That makes sense, I guess there's not any issues for normal use. I don't know much to nothing about such things so wading through the masses of information and telling true from false and relevant from irrelevant isn't very easy. Thanks for the clarification The problem is without a control we will never know Hard chrome is harder than steel, hard chrome is also performs less than ideally under high heat applications, I honestly believe that under normal shooting conditions the barrels in that test would have held up much better than they did, but due to the intense heat, and steel jackets the chrome lining began flaking off until the steel was exposed. |
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Posted: 7/13/2014 4:11:42 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:can someone who has gotten this stuff confirm whether it's boxer or berdan primed? I don't have any but Bill A. said it's Berdan. |
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Posted: 7/15/2014 2:47:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Superb photo, David. By chance have you computed the BC? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
there will even be a nice gel shot pic in Shotgun News in august.......with an early yaw cycle. http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss273/Gunwritr/Wolf%20Grendel%20Steel%20Case/Reduced_zpse0d36442-1.jpg Superb photo, David. By chance have you computed the BC? thanks! Sorry no I have not.... |
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Posted: 7/15/2014 12:11:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the damage was less to do with the ammo and more to do with the ammo in very hot barrels? That makes sense, I guess there's not any issues for normal use. I'll disagree. The hot barrels definitely helped speed up the process, but I think the 'relative wear' issues will still be there. |
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Posted: 7/15/2014 12:37:45 PM EDT
[#14]
I think relative is the wrong term. I think of you were to do a proper graph temp vs rounds fired vs wear, you would see a slight increase over copper up to a certain temp and then the steel would go and jump asymptotic before the copper. Stay below that point and there will be a difference but it will be something more like 15 or 20% and not 50+% more wear.
With the temps they are running, they are softening the steel plastically. Softer steel has less problem engraving copper than other steel and that, and the slower burning powder, explains the Federal results. |
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Posted: 7/15/2014 12:39:57 PM EDT
[#15]
After all, do we hear much about chromed eastern bloc commie caliber barrels wearing out prematurely?
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Posted: 7/15/2014 12:40:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Superb photo, David. By chance have you computed the BC? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
there will even be a nice gel shot pic in Shotgun News in august.......with an early yaw cycle. http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss273/Gunwritr/Wolf%20Grendel%20Steel%20Case/Reduced_zpse0d36442-1.jpg Superb photo, David. By chance have you computed the BC? I see that pic and I think AK-74 in steroids. The Russians should make a Vepr in that caliber. |
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Posted: 7/15/2014 2:56:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think relative is the wrong term. I think of you were to do a proper graph temp vs rounds fired vs wear, you would see a slight increase over copper up to a certain temp and then the steel would go and jump asymptotic before the copper. Stay below that point and there will be a difference but it will be something more like 15 or 20% and not 50+% more wear. What effect does muzzle velocity have? Wouldn't a better idea of the wear imposed by the Wolf FMJ ammo be had from looking at 7.62x51, instead of 5.56x45? I think most US military 7.62 M80 Ball produced for machine gun use over the last couple decades, has been with gilding metal clad steel jackets. |
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Posted: 7/15/2014 6:44:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Though I'm not an engineer, HeavyMetal's argument makes sense to me, intuitively. Why wouldn't hard, cold steel bullet jackets do quite a bit of engraving on hot, soft steel barrel rifling?
I would, however, argue that we never hear of "commie" AK47 barrels being shot out by steel-jacketed bullets because I'm guessing that most foreign users can't afford the volumes of ammo that American shooters can. And even if they did, I don't think they're interested in doing controlled tests and reporting their results from, oh, the Central African Republic. 
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Posted: 7/15/2014 8:48:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Though I'm not an engineer, HeavyMetal's argument makes sense to me, intuitively. Why wouldn't hard, cold steel bullet jackets do quite a bit of engraving on hot, soft steel barrel rifling? Perhaps because actually the bullet jackets are mild steel, and the barrels are hard steel with an even harder chrome lining? |
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Posted: 7/15/2014 8:51:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps because actually the bullet jackets are mild steel, and the barrels are hard steel with an even harder chrome lining? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Though I'm not an engineer, HeavyMetal's argument makes sense to me, intuitively. Why wouldn't hard, cold steel bullet jackets do quite a bit of engraving on hot, soft steel barrel rifling? Perhaps because actually the bullet jackets are mild steel, and the barrels are hard steel with an even harder chrome lining? Cold metal is harder/tougher than hot metal. |
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Posted: 7/15/2014 8:56:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cold metal is harder/tougher than hot metal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Though I'm not an engineer, HeavyMetal's argument makes sense to me, intuitively. Why wouldn't hard, cold steel bullet jackets do quite a bit of engraving on hot, soft steel barrel rifling? Perhaps because actually the bullet jackets are mild steel, and the barrels are hard steel with an even harder chrome lining? Cold metal is harder/tougher than hot metal. |
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Posted: 7/15/2014 9:11:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps because actually the bullet jackets are mild steel, and the barrels are hard steel with an even harder chrome lining? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Though I'm not an engineer, HeavyMetal's argument makes sense to me, intuitively. Why wouldn't hard, cold steel bullet jackets do quite a bit of engraving on hot, soft steel barrel rifling? Perhaps because actually the bullet jackets are mild steel, and the barrels are hard steel with an even harder chrome lining? It's only hard when it's cold. Anybody here remember what happened to the WTC on 9/11? |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 1:42:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cold metal is harder/tougher than hot metal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Though I'm not an engineer, HeavyMetal's argument makes sense to me, intuitively. Why wouldn't hard, cold steel bullet jackets do quite a bit of engraving on hot, soft steel barrel rifling? Perhaps because actually the bullet jackets are mild steel, and the barrels are hard steel with an even harder chrome lining? Cold metal is harder/tougher than hot metal. That's far too much of a blanket statement, which fails to consider the relative hardness/toughness of the different alloys. |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 1:46:38 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see that pic and I think AK-74 in steroids. The Russians should make a Vepr in that caliber. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
there will even be a nice gel shot pic in Shotgun News in august.......with an early yaw cycle. http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss273/Gunwritr/Wolf%20Grendel%20Steel%20Case/Reduced_zpse0d36442-1.jpg Superb photo, David. By chance have you computed the BC? I see that pic and I think AK-74 in steroids. The Russians should make a Vepr in that caliber. They do......... |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 11:27:30 AM EDT
[#25]
It is available here and what about the magazine situation?
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Posted: 7/16/2014 12:35:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Yesterday Alexander Arms got in a boatload, literally, of their new 6.5 Grendel magazines from Elander. These are coated steel (withstand 96 hours salt spray), and are designed from the ground up to be dedicated 6.5 Grendel magazines, with both the curvature and rib placement specific to the 6.5 Grendel.
Should be the best 6.5 Grendel magazines yet. |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 12:55:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yesterday Alexander Arms got in a boatload, literally, of their new 6.5 Grendel magazines from Elander. These are coated steel (withstand 96 hours salt spray), and are designed from the ground up to be dedicated 6.5 Grendel magazines, with both the curvature and rib placement specific to the 6.5 Grendel. Should be the best 6.5 Grendel magazines yet. The Elander 5.56 mags suck, so I'll wait to get excited. |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 1:29:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yesterday Alexander Arms got in a boatload, literally, of their new 6.5 Grendel magazines from Elander. These are coated steel (withstand 96 hours salt spray), and are designed from the ground up to be dedicated 6.5 Grendel magazines, with both the curvature and rib placement specific to the 6.5 Grendel. Should be the best 6.5 Grendel magazines yet. Wow less than $20 each - heck of a great price! |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 2:53:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Elander 5.56 mags suck, so I'll wait to get excited. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yesterday Alexander Arms got in a boatload, literally, of their new 6.5 Grendel magazines from Elander. These are coated steel (withstand 96 hours salt spray), and are designed from the ground up to be dedicated 6.5 Grendel magazines, with both the curvature and rib placement specific to the 6.5 Grendel. Should be the best 6.5 Grendel magazines yet. The Elander 5.56 mags suck, so I'll wait to get excited. Someone else can beta those for me. I've had very bad luck with Grendel mags. |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 3:08:13 PM EDT
[#30]
I am asking Dave about the mags for the Vepr. Will high-caps be available for the Grendel Vepr?
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Posted: 7/16/2014 3:28:31 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am asking Dave about the mags for the Vepr. Will high-caps be available for the Grendel Vepr? I'm interested as well, are Vepr rifles in 6.5 Grendel being imported? |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 4:35:22 PM EDT
[#32]
If the Russians start building 6.5G AK's it'll grow like wildfire. The performance of the 6.5G obviously stomps the 7.65x39, which will become apparent pretty quickly to not only the Russian masses but other nations looking for better weapons. All that is needed is ammo which could be supplied in the numbers needed should the facilities be allocated. While I'm a fan of the M16/M4, the US and other 5.56 using nations would be at a distinct disadvantage when fighting rifle to rifle with 5.56 vs 6.5G. Not saying that would ever happen but the Russians have already found a love of the 6.5G and are making the ammo so it will just take time for more people to realize how much better the 6.5G performs compared to what they have now.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 4:53:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am asking Dave about the mags for the Vepr. Will high-caps be available for the Grendel Vepr? Good question. Wolf is partnered with Molot and imports Vepr rifles so I will ask and see what they say! |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 9:18:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the Russians start building 6.5G AK's it'll grow like wildfire. The performance of the 6.5G obviously stomps the 7.65x39, which will become apparent pretty quickly to not only the Russian masses but other nations looking for better weapons. All that is needed is ammo which could be supplied in the numbers needed should the facilities be allocated. While I'm a fan of the M16/M4, the US and other 5.56 using nations would be at a distinct disadvantage when fighting rifle to rifle with 5.56 vs 6.5G. Not saying that would ever happen but the Russians have already found a love of the 6.5G and are making the ammo so it will just take time for more people to realize how much better the 6.5G performs compared to what they have now. From http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/?msg=5287.1 "I have just heard that the Russian Army is developing a new intermediate caliber round based on the 6.5 mm Grendel. The case will be slightly extended to contain extra propellant needed for long-range performance (43 mm?) and the G7 form factor will be similar to the existing 5.45 mm round (0.929). The ammunition is expected to be used in a new family of weapons designed to replace the AK-74 and will include a new belt-fed machine gun." |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 9:51:05 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 7/16/2014 9:57:53 PM EDT
[#36]
I haven't seen it anywhere else, but there might be a little problem with getting any Russian AKs, let alone ones in 6.5. I hope it doesn't grow into restrictions on ammo too.
From the ongoing thread about the goings on in Ukraine: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1597203_BREAKING__Putin_orders_150_000_troops_in_western_Russia_on_alert_Drill.html&page=205 Quoted:
Simon Shuster ?@shustry 40s Today the US also blacklisted the makers of the AK-47, whose biggest market by far is the USA ETA: Found a thread about the subject: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1645562_Concern_Kalshnikov_added_to_Sanctions_List.html |
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Posted: 7/17/2014 3:19:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/?msg=5287.1 "I have just heard that the Russian Army is developing a new intermediate caliber round based on the 6.5 mm Grendel. The case will be slightly extended to contain extra propellant needed for long-range performance (43 mm?) and the G7 form factor will be similar to the existing 5.45 mm round (0.929). The ammunition is expected to be used in a new family of weapons designed to replace the AK-74 and will include a new belt-fed machine gun." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If the Russians start building 6.5G AK's it'll grow like wildfire. The performance of the 6.5G obviously stomps the 7.65x39, which will become apparent pretty quickly to not only the Russian masses but other nations looking for better weapons. All that is needed is ammo which could be supplied in the numbers needed should the facilities be allocated. While I'm a fan of the M16/M4, the US and other 5.56 using nations would be at a distinct disadvantage when fighting rifle to rifle with 5.56 vs 6.5G. Not saying that would ever happen but the Russians have already found a love of the 6.5G and are making the ammo so it will just take time for more people to realize how much better the 6.5G performs compared to what they have now. From http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/?msg=5287.1 "I have just heard that the Russian Army is developing a new intermediate caliber round based on the 6.5 mm Grendel. The case will be slightly extended to contain extra propellant needed for long-range performance (43 mm?) and the G7 form factor will be similar to the existing 5.45 mm round (0.929). The ammunition is expected to be used in a new family of weapons designed to replace the AK-74 and will include a new belt-fed machine gun." the Soviets did a lot of testing in the 60s and 70s and this included a 6.5x39mm variant. Test weapons are still in their archives and test data is there somewhere. So this is not entirely new to the Russians. |
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Posted: 7/17/2014 5:28:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Inside track... Picked up the box today.. Only got to fire 20 rounds so far. Ran out of time.. But I will be getting to it later this week. Yo, Shwell, where'd you run off to, man? You're the only other one with some inside info! You got an update for us?
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Posted: 7/17/2014 10:51:39 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the Soviets did a lot of testing in the 60s and 70s and this included a 6.5x39mm variant. Test weapons are still in their archives and test data is there somewhere. So this is not entirely new to the Russians. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the Russians start building 6.5G AK's it'll grow like wildfire. The performance of the 6.5G obviously stomps the 7.65x39, which will become apparent pretty quickly to not only the Russian masses but other nations looking for better weapons. All that is needed is ammo which could be supplied in the numbers needed should the facilities be allocated. While I'm a fan of the M16/M4, the US and other 5.56 using nations would be at a distinct disadvantage when fighting rifle to rifle with 5.56 vs 6.5G. Not saying that would ever happen but the Russians have already found a love of the 6.5G and are making the ammo so it will just take time for more people to realize how much better the 6.5G performs compared to what they have now. From http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/?msg=5287.1 "I have just heard that the Russian Army is developing a new intermediate caliber round based on the 6.5 mm Grendel. The case will be slightly extended to contain extra propellant needed for long-range performance (43 mm?) and the G7 form factor will be similar to the existing 5.45 mm round (0.929). The ammunition is expected to be used in a new family of weapons designed to replace the AK-74 and will include a new belt-fed machine gun." the Soviets did a lot of testing in the 60s and 70s and this included a 6.5x39mm variant. Test weapons are still in their archives and test data is there somewhere. So this is not entirely new to the Russians. Interesting, makes sense, I wouldn't be surprised if they went that route for a main caliber. Personally I've really become a fan of the 6.5Grendel performance, I'm far from an expert but it seems like it would make a fantastic caliber for the AK or its predecessor or even better as the US's next caliber AR. Although I'm sure there's WAY more likelihood that the Russians do it. |
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Posted: 7/20/2014 4:09:39 PM EDT
[#40]
I sure "HOPE" Hornady starts to produce their version of the Grendel steel case ammo like their "Steel Case Match" now that there will be steel cases available. I know it may be a long shot but we can all HOPE.
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Posted: 7/20/2014 7:03:18 PM EDT
[#41]
Assuming a half-way point in cost between steel cased 5.56 and steel 7.62, I'm guesstimating a per box cost of about $7-8.00 once the market
stabilizes. Given the ballistics of this round and the weight of carbines for it versus the .308 GII I had been considering, the 6.5 becomes very attractive. So what would be the easiest way to put together a 16 inch midlength carbine with a pinned FSB?
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Posted: 7/20/2014 7:13:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Assuming a half-way point in cost between steel cased 5.56 and steel 7.62, I'm guesstimating a per box cost of about $7-8.00 once the market stabilizes. Given the ballistics of this round and the weight of carbines for it versus the .308 GII I had been considering, the 6.5 becomes very attractive. So what would be the easiest way to put together a 16 inch midlength carbine with a pinned FSB? Buy an upper. Alexander Arms would be a great choice. J&T Distributing or.. search the EE. |
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Posted: 7/20/2014 8:43:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Given the ballistics of this round and the weight of carbines for it versus the .308 GII I had been considering, the 6.5 becomes very attractive. So what would be the easiest way to put together a 16 inch midlength carbine with a pinned FSB? Considering the less than 2500 fps muzzle velocity from a 16" barrel, and probable G1 BC of circa 0.390, I think ballistics of this steel-cased ammo are going to be much less than impressive. |
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Posted: 7/20/2014 9:19:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Considering the less than 2500 fps muzzle velocity from a 16" barrel, and probable G1 BC of circa 0.390, I think ballistics of this steel-cased ammo are going to be much less than impressive. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Given the ballistics of this round and the weight of carbines for it versus the .308 GII I had been considering, the 6.5 becomes very attractive. So what would be the easiest way to put together a 16 inch midlength carbine with a pinned FSB? Considering the less than 2500 fps muzzle velocity from a 16" barrel, and probable G1 BC of circa 0.390, I think ballistics of this steel-cased ammo are going to be much less than impressive. |
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Posted: 7/20/2014 11:23:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Considering the less than 2500 fps muzzle velocity from a 16" barrel, and probable G1 BC of circa 0.390, I think ballistics of this steel-cased ammo are going to be much less than impressive. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Given the ballistics of this round and the weight of carbines for it versus the .308 GII I had been considering, the 6.5 becomes very attractive. So what would be the easiest way to put together a 16 inch midlength carbine with a pinned FSB? Considering the less than 2500 fps muzzle velocity from a 16" barrel, and probable G1 BC of circa 0.390, I think ballistics of this steel-cased ammo are going to be much less than impressive. hmmmmmmmmm...........think so..........? Shot fine at 800 yards for me........
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Posted: 7/20/2014 11:27:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Can't wait to spend some time with the new Grendel magazines.......I used them at a demo a bit back but
have some coming for testing........ |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 1:24:55 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
hmmmmmmmmm...........think so..........? Shot fine at 800 yards for me........ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Given the ballistics of this round and the weight of carbines for it versus the .308 GII I had been considering, the 6.5 becomes very attractive. So what would be the easiest way to put together a 16 inch midlength carbine with a pinned FSB? Considering the less than 2500 fps muzzle velocity from a 16" barrel, and probable G1 BC of circa 0.390, I think ballistics of this steel-cased ammo are going to be much less than impressive. hmmmmmmmmm...........think so..........? Shot fine at 800 yards for me........ I said ballistics (as in trajectory, wind drift), not accuracy. 
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Posted: 7/21/2014 1:45:15 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I said ballistics (as in trajectory, wind drift), not accuracy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Given the ballistics of this round and the weight of carbines for it versus the .308 GII I had been considering, the 6.5 becomes very attractive. So what would be the easiest way to put together a 16 inch midlength carbine with a pinned FSB? Considering the less than 2500 fps muzzle velocity from a 16" barrel, and probable G1 BC of circa 0.390, I think ballistics of this steel-cased ammo are going to be much less than impressive. hmmmmmmmmm...........think so..........? Shot fine at 800 yards for me........ I said ballistics (as in trajectory, wind drift), not accuracy. I think I had an extra Mil on the gun......didn't seem like a big deal |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 3:20:53 PM EDT
[#49]
None of that matters a hoot if the stuff doesn't actually show up on the market. With everything going on with Russia, if Wolf doesn't get it here soon in quantity, we'll probably never have a chance to really give it a chance.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 2:08:56 AM EDT
[#50]
If there's a demonstrated market, they'll figure out how to get it here. .gov can't even nail down our OWN tax cheats, I don't suppose a little corporate slight of hand on the far side of the ocean would be any easier.
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