I can't recall any pivot pin I have having a hole through the middle.

They all have a through hole on the ends, but not in the middle.

ADCO did the same thing with my AP-4 barrel;  Added a low block gas block and Daniel Defense 12" Lite rails. Cut down so much weight that it feels like a new rifle, almost 5.56 rifle

pics? final weight? and how much does that DD rail weigh?

I just ordered a G2 SASS and can't wait to get it. This thread, as well as one over at snipershide, put me over the edge to pic the G2 over a LMT MWS and the previous gen DPMS.

Does anyone have an ambidextrous charging handle for the G2? I'm a lefty...I need one!

JP

Good to hear.

What rails do you have for the G2 308 Recon?

Yes, that is AWESOME to hear! Any way I can get on a notification list for when they are ready to ship?

I just got a Hunter.  I didn't keep the target, but the best group of the day was 1.17" @ 100 with winchester super x soft points (the cheapest brass stuff academy had).

Interested as well

Hows the trigger on the hunter?

Seen a broken pivot pin in a new out of the box m4. Of course a joe had dropped it off a table onto a concrete floor in the mudroom with the pin extended.

Decent 2 stage, clean take up and break, but I'd like it to be lighter.  I might look into some springs before I start spending significant money.

 

Crazy White Guy,

I believe you, but, the steel pin projection out of the side of the aluminum receiver should have broken the receiver. Even more so, if the pin was protruding enough that it was only engaged in one side of the receiver.

DB

Yes sir, I am tracking. It was mystifying, and likely a metal issue. Armorer swapped out a new one and it was gtg.

Got my AP4 in earlier this week.  Picked it up from the dealer and went straight to the range.  In the cardboard box was the rifle itself, one 20rd metal magazine, standard two point black nylon sling, baggie containing the manual, a zeroing target and a DPMS sticker.  Also in the box was a little package of some sort of lube.  I have no idea what kind because somewhere along the line it got punctured and leaked the lube all over the bottom of the box soaking into the cardboard.  The rifle didn't appear to get any of this lube on the exterior.  

     The receivers are a nice matte black with the upper matching the lower quid well.  The barrel has a grey finish on it and only one marking.  It has "CHROME LINED" stamped on the top in front of the front sight post.  No other marking denoting caliber or twist.  
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The muzzle device that comes with the AP4 seems to be some form of brake/flash hider.  It has ports drilled 360 degrees around it angled both forwards and backwards.  There are four points that extend out and I'm guessing assist with the flash, or could be used as a stand off device.  The threads under the muzzle device appeared to be cut cleanly and deeply.  I don't plan on putting a suppressor on this in any near future, so I won't be sending it off anywhere to find out if they are concentric or not.  While breaking down the barrel for a free float install I did notice that the barrel is not coated underneath the front sight base. Also, the barrel is a pencil weight contour in front of the FSB, but switches to more of a medium contour at the FSB and slowly tapers up to the chamber.  
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The markings on the lower receiver are really crisp and deep.  Very nicely done.  Interesting to note that the lower is marked "caliber-multi".  Which tells me I guess they do plan on different caliber offerings within the G2 line.  There are 7 linear lines along the front of the magazine well which do aid in grip if you so choose to use a magwell grip.  The magazine well itself has a very nice flaring at the bottom making magazine insertions very easy.  The bottom of the bolt catch sticks out quite a bit at a 90-degree angle from the receiver.  It does allow very positive activation of the bolt catch, but I think it also sticks out far enough to possibly catch on gear.   For magazines, it comes with one metal magazine.  I had three Magpul 20rd gen3 PMAGS waiting.  Some people have said that their bolts aren’t locking back on the gen3 PMAGS.  The bolt did lock to the rear on am empty PMAG, but it did not push the bolt catch up very far onto the bolt face.  The factory mag pushed the bolt catch much further onto the bolt face.  There just wasn’t a lot of bolt catch engaging the bolt face for my liking.  Twice I had the bolt go forward and chamber a round without me touching the bolt release.  I didn’t have any problems with the factory mag.  

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Factory DPMS mag and bolt face engagement.
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MAGPUL PMAG M3 bolt face engagement.
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     Breaking the bolt carrier group down is easy as can be.  Coming from an AR-15 and never having an AR-10, there were a few differences I noticed.  I don't know if they are AR-10 wide or just with this G2.  The BCG has a nice smooth texture from the rear going forward towards the cut outs for the forward assist.  But forward of those, right around where the firing pin retaining pin is it switches to a rough "unfinished" texture all the way to the bolt.  I don't know if it is normal, or someone just got lazy on the machining that day or what, but it did not appear to affect function in any way and there was no abnormal wear on that finish after 140rds.  The gas key is interesting.  There is a mounting "base" that’s milled in with the BCG making it monolithic, but the actual BCG part of the gas tube is pinned in place on the milled "base".  Clearly makes production easier and I guess for whatever reason if you ever had to replace that part of the gas key, it's easy as punching out a roll pin and pulling it out.  The bolt itself sports the new dual ejectors and the elastomer extractor "spring".  I don't foresee it degrading in any way and thinks it’s a smart upgrade.  The dual ejectors provided very positive ejection of spent brass to the 4O'clock.  I know some people have said that they leave some nasty marks on the spent brass, but I only had one piece of brass that had obvious marks from the ejectors.  That particular round also blew the primer out, so I'm thinking it had something to do with that one round.  
The bolt lugs are radiused as opposed to squared off in a traditional bolt; time will tell if these are up to the task.  

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      The selector switch is marked safe and fire, with nothing at the happy switch position.  The selector switch itself it nice and positive in transitioning from safe to fire and back again.  Not too stiff and not too soft, nice and in the middle.  The A2 pistol grip is just that, an A2 pistol grip.  I can certainly live without those so I have since swapped out for a Magpul MOE+ grip.  The back strap of the grip, the upper curved part along the receiver follows the lines of the receiver perfectly and there is no gap.  There is a slight height difference from the front of the grip where it mates with the milled in trigger guard.  The trigger guard is radiused and very smooth all the way around it.  The MOE grip sticks out below the trigger guard about 1mm causing a noticeable step.  A simple sanding of the grip should provide a seamless transition from the grip to the trigger guard.  

     I'm assuming it has just a standard DPMS lower parts kit in for the trigger group.  The trigger feels like a standard run of the mill mil-spec trigger.  Nothing too special to write home about.  It does have some gritty take up and while I don't have a trigger pull gauge it does feel a little heavier than a few of my other mil-spec triggers.  I definitely think at the very least I will be putting an ALG ACT trigger in this thing.  The castle nut of the receiver extension is not staked in place by the end plate, but feels solid and torqued adequately.  The castle nut does have the notches on it for staking however if one would like to do it themselves.  The receiver extension is a 6-position tube with civilian tube dimensions.  It comes with a standard M4 style stock with the rough "pyramid" texture on the back f the stock.  Initially it wasn't too bad, but after the 140rds i put through it my shoulder was definitely feeling it.  The next day I had all kinds of bruising and redness.  I have swapped out the stock for a Magpul CTR stock.  I would have gone with the MOE just to save a little bit of money, but I really wanted the QD sling sockets that are included with the CTR.  

     As I’ve said, once I got it, I took it straight to the range.  I put 140rds of Winchester white box 147gr 7.62X51 through it.  Performed the barrel break in procedure as explained in the manual.  Shooting it, there is obviously more recoil than a 5.56 AR, but not too terribly unmanageable.  I only shot it as it came out of the box with the front sight post and Magpul rear flip up sight.  That itself is nice that it even comes with a rear sight.  At 100 yards, I wasn't able to do better than about 4MOA prone supported.  I don't know if its the rifle, ammo, or crappy rear sight, but I can tell you I can shoot much better than that with irons with any of my 5.56 AR's.  The manual does say that the barrel may not fully settle in until after 200rds so I am going to put more rounds through it this weekend and also slap a Burris 1-4 on it and see if it can do any better.  

     All in all, fit and finish of the rifle is very nice, overall execution is very well done I think and not at all disappointed about spending $1184.00 on this from Buds Gun Shop.  For those curious, I placed the order via the web on a Tuesday 6/10, I got shipping notification the following Monday 6/16, and it was delivered the Monday after that 6/23.  I had ordered parts on hand waiting for the silly thing to come in.  What I have already changed out on it are: Magpul CTR stock, Magpul MOE+ pistol grip, shaved down the front sight base, Midwest Industries Keymod free float rail and (it better be worth what I paid) a Battle Comp Enterprises BABC.

And this was the day after shooting the first 140rds.  I'm hoping the CTR stock and BABC can be a little nicer to my shoulder...
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I am working on putting together a video review as well, just basically going over everything Iv'e laid out here.  This is my first attempt at a review, so I hope It's been informative and anything else you guys want to know, let me know.  I will update this once I get the rifle put all back together and finished.


Edit to add...Guess i should have looked over the barrel a little more lol. Just found on the bottom the caliber and twist.  
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And here is the AP4 in stock configuration on a scale. 7 lbs 4.9oz
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Anyone have pics of these guns on a scale?


Also nice review and good pics,

Any updates? I need an ambi charging handle.

Just got an AP4 home today.  Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.  First concern I notice:  my Gen 2 PMAG's don't fall free.  They seat fine, but stick just enough in the magwell that they probably won't fall out unless dumping a full magazine...even with a healthy flip.  Any suggestions?

After a long drought, I should be able to pull the trigger on two GIIs, in a month or so.

Really, what I'd love to see is a Hunter with a threaded barrel. Has anyone done this?

I already have a Recon, but am considering selling mine for a GII. Then again, I'm not sure the half pound delta is worth it. I could probably shed more than that, just buy swapping the rail.

I kind of miss the old DPMS website, where you could customize the builds. The GII configs are still very limited, and there's something major I'd want to change in every one of them.

Had my G2 Hunter barrel cut and threaded for Saker flash hider:


Finished, with MI rail installed.

Want!
How much was the threading?

Six pack of Stella and a good cigar. I have some good machinist friends local to me with a state-of-the-art machine shop. YMMV

 RW rifle looks fantastic but can you post some photos of targets that you shot with the G2 out to 100 yards in its current configuration?? Also could you post the optic and load you used?

Thanks

AKASL

LIVE FREE OR DIE

Tell you what, I have to go re-zero and will take some pics for you then. Optic will be FLIR RS64-35mm thermal scope. Just got a firmware update from FLIR that changed the value of the zero adjustments to finer clicks for more accuracy, so I need to re-zero. I'll shoot 100 and 200 yards. This will be in a day or two. Load is probably gonna be Sierra 150 Game King, processed mil brass, Reloader 15 or Varget, CCI BR2 primer. I test loads with the scope (Leupold VX3 8.5-25 x 50mm LRT) in the picture which really lets you aim perfectly, but the FLIR isn't as precise. About 1 MOA if I do my part... good enough for hunting hogs.

Best groups in testing were a Sierra 155 Match King load I used to shoot in competition in another .308. I have a lot of that ammo to shoot up, as I converted that rifle to .260 Rem.

Sounds good!!!! I'm looking forward to the range report

AKASL

LIVE FREE OR DIE

I'm interested in the BULL for some long range shooting.  I would change the stock for something adjustable, add a bipod and some optics.   Any reviews, experiences or opinions on this model?

Thanks

Finally got my scope (viper PST 4-16x50) mounted proper.  I'll be shooting FGGM 168gr groups this weekend.












 

Im looking forward to some more cartridge options and some more handgrip options for it. Other than that, this rifle promising. I just need to fondle one now...

Hand guard?

I agree, choices are still fairly slim, but Midwest Industries makes some, SLR is coming out with some, and apparently the Nordic thread on handguards work with the GII Recon. There are at least three different GII barrel nuts, so that's a bit of the problem.

Why is that?

Because of how the handguards attach. The AP4/MOE has no free float hand guard, so one nut. The Carbon Fiber tubes use another, and the Recon uses yet another.

Reportedly the GII Recon barrel nut uses the same threads as the Nordic Components hand guards, so you could use one of those on the Recon, but outside of that, you've got like 2 vendors (presently) who make GII specific hand guards.

Here's an excerpt from one of my posts on another forum back in May:

I picked up a G2 MOE version about a week ago, and took it to the range for the first time today. My initial impression was very good! I started at short range to get it on paper, before moving farther out. Turns out that I didn't need to worry. My first 5 rounds at 25 yards went into one slightly oblong hole. It actually looked like two rounds touching in a figure-eight pattern, except that all five rounds went thru that same 0.3" spread, and it was centered in the black. Gotta like that! Moved the target out to 50 yards and put 5 more rounds into a 1" circle. Now, I'm felling really good about my new G2, considering that I was still only using the factory iron/polymer sights (GI front & MagPul BUIS rear).

Then I went over and picked up my brass . . . . . all ten cases showed two raised round bumps around the headstamp area, where the dual ejectors are located. It's as if the soft brass was being fire-formed and melted/flowed back into the dual ejector holes in the bolt-face. And five of the cases were missing their primers completely? They were just gone, with only blackened primer pockets left behind.

This was with Federal Gold Medal Match 168hpbt ammo, not some ultra cheap plinking stuff. I opened up the weapon to look for those loose primers, but, found none. Before giving up, I decided to test a different load. This time some Federal Premium 165 Trophy Bonded ammo, and fired two more 5-round strings at 50 yds. Both groups were also about an inch and at the same point of impact as the 168 GMM's. All of the 165 Trophy Bonded cases had their primers still flush in their pockets, but, the two raised bumps from the dual ejector holes were very evident around the headstamp area of all the cases. So, I stopped firing for the day.

Does my G2 have a headspace problem, or something else? I tried to call DPMS, but, due to the time zone difference, they were closed. I'll try again in the morning.

I've got kinda mixed feelings, now. Like the G2's light-weight, nice balance, accuracy, and sights that are dead-on right out of the box. But, these crazy fired-brass issues are worrisome!

Then there's customer service if/when something goes wrong:

DPMS was nice enough to send me a pre-paid shipping lable, so that I could return my "once-fired" .308 G2 MOE rifle back to the factory. But, now that was over 2 months ago, and they still have the gun. I called the factory to check on it a couple weeks ago, and was told that they are "waiting on new barrels". Don't they build the barrels that are used on their own rifles?

I bought my G2 in April, so, that I'd be able to get it ready for my daughter's youth caribou hunt in August. Now it's July, and it looks like I wasted $1400 and will need to get a back-up rifle ready!!!

And my lastest update:

Called DPMS again and now they tell me that they're "waiting on new bolts" which will take a couple more weeks (if that's actually the fix for my G2's problem?)

Bottom line is, after DPMS gets your $$$, they will allow your defective rifle to languish in their repair shop for months, while all of their parts go toward making more new rifles to attract other people's money !!!

The day this GII comes back, is the same day that it goes up for sale!

Federal has soft brass? No way!

Yeah, its amazing how many folks consider Fed Gold Match ammo some sort of "premium" load-to-beat-all-loads. IMO it sucks out loud - too hot, and soft brass. When I find a Federal case in my brass, it goes straight into the recycling bucket. I like their Gold match primers, though. Just picked up 5000 large rifle FGM primers at Camp Perry for $172.

Maybe you did get a lemon, but you shouldn't have to send a rifle to the factory to check head space. Simply measuring the fired brass in a Mo's gauge will tell you a lot about the chamber, as will a nice set of head space gauges from Brownell's. My G2 fired brass measures about 0.005" above SAMMI minimum, which is about where it needs to be for a gas gun.

Hope you get it straightened out. I love my G2. The barrel is OK, its a DPMS factory barrel, not a Kreiger, Bartlein, or other premium match grade barrel. I'm happy with the performance of mine; it is plenty good enough for hunting, if not the 1000 yard line at Camp Perry.

IMO, the best premium .308 ammo, if you can get your hands on it, is M118LR.

Very tough brass, extremely consistent, and incredibly accurate. At least in my rifle it was.

I think ejector swipes are always going to be the bane of gas guns. Especially the big ones.

What about Applied Ballistics and Southwest Ammunition?

That's probably good too. I don't have direct experience with them, though.

Southwest makes a 300 WM load using the 230 Berger.

I don't have a 300 WM.

I don't even need one.

But I want one.

Put together an AP4 with the MI keymod 12" rail and a BCM gas block.  Also BCM grip.  I then took it out and promptly blew out the magazine and have a stuck case thanks to Tula 308.  Hopefully I can get the case out, the gun seems fine other than that.  The rest of that stuff is going in the trash...

FWIW, at least with low power loads (147g FMJ, 38g Varget in LC cases) I saw fired in a GII I didn't see any evidence of the ejectors on the brass. I saw some sharp spots on the rim which appear to come from the outside edges of the extractor, but nothing that looks like it would be a problem for reloading if you were going to. No problems with primers either, but I expect lack of ejector marks and primer flowing are due solely to the very light loading.

If all you do is fire factory ammo I guess you have no choice. If brass life is a concern and you reload though, finding a combo that doesn't tax the brass as hard wouldn't seem impossible to do. Fine line on a semi-auto of any type, but I don't see it being impossible.

If I was going to pick these rifles apart, at least on the "early" GII (without the bolt redesigns) I would say that the bolt catch should be a bit different, as the release pad hits the receiver when not engaged, and the barrel "flats" in the chamber seem kindof weird. Small pieces of errant cloth or cleaning patch, carbon, unburnt powder, particles of brass, etc I can see getting in there. I'll admit, I'm not an AR genius, but if these exist on "standard" AR's, I never noticed. You can see the "flats" here, just peeking out from under the barrel nut http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/astross89/IMAG0055.jpg I suppose they technically are "pass through", but if crud can escape from there, it could technically enter the same way. Also, the selector lever has some slop in it I don't ever remember on other AR's. On "fire" you can move it towards safe a fair bit (maybe 11 o'clock position) before it feels like it is starting to actually engage other parts. On the plus side, it seems like this may help move it from safe to semi quietly.

All in all pretty minor issues overall. No glaring ones though.

Dang i am really torn right now between one of these and a POF.  I was all set to pull thetrigger on a POF with a 20in now I am rethinking after the talk of these for the past few months.  Tough decision long night of more reading ahead i guess.

Have you not seen the thread on GD about someones POF? WOULD NOT RECOMMEND.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1646606_POF_USA_p308_rifle_never_works.html

I have no problem with POF, anyone can make a lemon.  The issue is the POF is a lot heavier and more expensive, while being only slightly more accurate and reliable.

Now, that's almost exactly the setup I'm looking at getting... MI rail with the Saker attached.

Can someone catch me up to speed on the "bolt redesign"? Has DMPS made any changes to the GII bolts, since initial release? Finally coming into some money, and looking to buy a SASS & Hunter. Hoping I don't get any lemons...

Two changes, apparently.

DPMS Rep stated that something had been done to the firing pin area in the bolt to address primer flow issues. I expect the hole is smaller, but to my knowledge no one has measured a new vs. old. I can measure old, but worthless without new bolt measurement.

The way the bolt is made is different. New bolts have very clear marks from what appears to be the milling operation that cuts the gaps between the lugs. This picture is the "first design" bolt: 1st Design GII bolt You can see how large the relieved area is right behind the lugs. The gap is much narrower on the newer bolts. Since that gap is smaller, my assumption is the cutter simply rubs a bit as it completes the lug cutting operation. I'm not sure that offers any benefit, but it was either done to speed operation, or add more strength there.

I cannot recall if DPMS stated whether or not the two changes were at the same time, or different times. One would hope at the same time, so you'd know by a quick visual which version you were looking at.

FWIW, on very light loads I've not witnessed primer issues, but I know others have. I'm going to guess those problems are with 1st Gen bolts.

Ordered a Hunter two weeks ago. Timeline is 2-3 months due to the shuffling of facilities to the South. No problem, I waited a LOT longer for stuff during the last panic. The DPMS truck was in town last week and the crew was really helpful and informative. The GII display with parts separated was really useful for seeing more details in the design, i.e. the steel ramp insert by itself.

If a .260 or .338 caliber came out I'd really be in a quandary trying to decide what to do.