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cmkworm
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Posted: 2/3/2013 11:08:48 AM
Hey guys, probably been discussed before but I'm looking to spend around $500 on a scope for my M&P 10. It has an 18" barrel. I may hunt with it a little but I doubt I would ever shoot over 500 yards or so. I've seen the Vortex, SWFA, Leupold's and Nikon M-308 so far. Any recommendations?
tackleberry1145
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Posted: 2/3/2013 11:12:51 AM

Originally Posted By cmkworm:
Hey guys, probably been discussed before but I'm looking to spend around $500 on a scope for my M&P 10. It has an 18" barrel. I may hunt with it a little but I doubt I would ever shoot over 500 yards or so. I've seen the Vortex, SWFA, Leupold's and Nikon M-308 so far. Any recommendations?

I've been happy with my SWFA 10x Super Sniper. It's not a Leupy Mk 4, but it is a pretty good scope.

I've got a Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x on my LMT MWS in a Larue QD mount. I'm VERY pleased with it. They show up in the EE from time to time, usually for a little more than your $500 budget though.
jaqufrost
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Posted: 2/3/2013 11:23:48 AM
I bought this Vortex Viper for $450 on sale recently. It's back to $500 now but midway has a $30 coupon available.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/183567/vortex-viper-hs-tactical-rifle-scope-30mm-tube-5-15x-44mm-side-focus-1-10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

I haven't got to play with this one yet, but I have 2 other Viper's (6.5-20x50 and 2.5-10x44 PST) that I have been very happy with. Glass and turrets are better than my SWFA Super Sniper. The model I linked has a zero stop system, mil turrets and mil dots.

The Vortex Vipers also have a lifetime warranty.
jaqufrost
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Posted: 2/3/2013 11:24:51 AM
Midway code is: WSF1230 for $30 off $300
cmkworm
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Posted: 2/3/2013 11:41:54 AM
Do any of these come with the mount for a flat top? If not, where would I get that?
jaqufrost
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Posted: 2/3/2013 11:50:10 AM
I recommend Larue SPR or SPR-E mounts for most applications. Given the extra length of the AR10 uppers a SPR-E is probably not needed. Bobro also makes good QD mounts. If you want 10 or 20 MOA of cant built in then get the LT-745.

http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-scope-mount-qd-lt745


cmkworm
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Posted: 2/3/2013 12:04:31 PM
Noob question, what is the MOA? I guess I thought that was a scope issue when sighting in, not a mount thing.
satx-satx
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Posted: 2/3/2013 12:04:45 PM
SWFA or Vortex

jaqufrost
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Posted: 2/3/2013 12:14:34 PM
[Last Edit: 2/4/2013 10:26:08 PM by jaqufrost]
MOA is minute of angle. (and for rough estimation is roughly equal to an inch of adjustment at 100 yards) If you are shooting long distance (1000 or more yards) your scope may not have enough internal adjustment. For instance the Viper scope I linked has 75 MOA of horizontal vertical adjustment. So when centered (which it should be pretty close to zero when sighted in on a standard mount) it will have 37.5 MOA travel up and 37.5 MOA down. Depending on your load you may need more than 37.5 MOA adjustment for a long distance target. If you start with a 20 MOA mount it will cant the scope and instead of having an evenly divided 37.5 MOA you will have 17.5 MOA up adjustment and 57.5 MOA down.

Some scopes don't have very much internal adjustment and then it becomes more important.

Hopefully this makes sense

ETA: fixed my stupid mistake
cmkworm
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Posted: 2/3/2013 12:22:08 PM
So the options are 10 and 20 MOA. Would that mean the 20 MOA is taller? So with the 10 MOA you would have 27.5 up and 47.5 down? I guess bottom line with something such as the Viper, would you want the 10 or 20 MOA mount?
Manny2_0
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Posted: 2/3/2013 12:23:24 PM
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
MOA is minute of angle. (and for rough estimation is roughly equal to an inch of adjustment at 100 yards) If you are shooting long distance (1000 or more yards) your scope may not have enough internal adjustment. For instance the Viper scope I linked has 75 MOA of horizontal adjustment. So when centered (which it should be pretty close to zero when sighted in on a standard mount) it will have 37.5 MOA travel up and 37.5 MOA down. Depending on your load you may need more than 37.5 MOA adjustment for a long distance target. If you start with a 20 MOA mount it will cant the scope and instead of having an evenly divided 37.5 MOA you will have 17.5 MOA up adjustment and 57.5 MOA down.

Some scopes don't have very much internal adjustment and then it becomes more important.

Hopefully this makes sense


Prefectly put like a professor of ballistics/sniper chit
jaqufrost
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Posted: 2/3/2013 12:36:28 PM
With the Viper I would get the 20. If you had a scope with only 30 MOA internal adjustment you would want the 10 or you wouldn't be able to zero.
cmkworm
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Posted: 2/3/2013 12:57:40 PM
Thanks for all the advice, buying the rifle is really the tip of the iceberg considering all of the other things. Now to convince the wife.
Diamondback
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Posted: 2/3/2013 2:16:55 PM
Look at the Vortex Viper HS 5-15X44 scope that is available from Midway. They sell for $499.00 at this time and they are great scopes for the money. I have one on my LR308 and love it. They are mil dot scopes with a 30mm tube, very bright, clear, sharp focus from edge to edge, and have tactical turrets with zero stop. Vortex also has great customer service should you ever need it. I didn't need a 20 moa mount and used a Burris PEPR mount on my rifle and it works just fine.
A 45 may not expand but it will never be smaller than .45!!
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m6z
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Posted: 2/3/2013 3:46:27 PM
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
I bought this Vortex Viper for $450 on sale recently. It's back to $500 now but midway has a $30 coupon available.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/183567/vortex-viper-hs-tactical-rifle-scope-30mm-tube-5-15x-44mm-side-focus-1-10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

I haven't got to play with this one yet, but I have 2 other Viper's (6.5-20x50 and 2.5-10x44 PST) that I have been very happy with. Glass and turrets are better than my SWFA Super Sniper. The model I linked has a zero stop system, mil turrets and mil dots.

The Vortex Vipers also have a lifetime warranty.


Just bought one of these scopes myself. It's very nice for the price.
zercool
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Posted: 2/3/2013 3:49:35 PM
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
MOA is minute of angle. (and for rough estimation is roughly equal to an inch of adjustment at 100 yards) If you are shooting long distance (1000 or more yards) your scope may not have enough internal adjustment. For instance the Viper scope I linked has 75 MOA of horizontal adjustment. So when centered (which it should be pretty close to zero when sighted in on a standard mount) it will have 37.5 MOA travel up and 37.5 MOA down. Depending on your load you may need more than 37.5 MOA adjustment for a long distance target. If you start with a 20 MOA mount it will cant the scope and instead of having an evenly divided 37.5 MOA you will have 17.5 MOA up adjustment and 57.5 MOA down.

Some scopes don't have very much internal adjustment and then it becomes more important.

Hopefully this makes sense


Re bold: not exactly. The scope will still have a +/- 37.5MOA adjustment range, but the mechanical zero of the scope is 20MOA higher than it would be without the sloped mount.
Once order starts getting restored there's that akward moment when you have to explain why the heads of your enemies are on pikes lining your cul-de-sac. -- HullBreach
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Posted: 2/3/2013 10:02:46 PM
I have the SWFA SS 12x42 on my DPMS LR308B and really like it! My only other real scope experience is a Vortex Viper 2-7, which I also like. The mil/mil swfa is really easy to use and the paralax adjustment is really nice. For the price, I couldn't find anything that comes close!

223Rem
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Posted: 2/4/2013 10:02:21 AM
[Last Edit: 2/4/2013 5:33:38 PM by 223Rem]
Not sure if the $500 budget includes a good mounting system, so I will assume it does not.

Best bang for you buck in entry level tactical scopes right now is the Weaver Tactical 3-10x40 Mil/Mil at Midway for $300. With a ADM Recon mount you are still under $500 with shipping.

Plenty of built in elevation to get you to 500 yards.

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CraigOK
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Posted: 2/4/2013 1:06:04 PM
check out the millet TRS and LRS scopes. The TRS would leave room in your budget for a cantilever mounting system. The LRS comes w/ 35MM high rings which seem to hold zero just fine- though you may need to buy an extended riser to get it moved forward on the rifle
wikioutdoor
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Posted: 2/4/2013 4:21:02 PM
really liking the new throw down pcl from bushnell - about 315 retail when they start shipping soon - reticle is for a 223 but you could easily adapt to 308

http://bushnell.com/all-products/rifle-scopes/ar-optics/1-4x-24mm-throw-down-pcl



Powermankw
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Posted: 2/4/2013 4:24:44 PM
So what about the Nikon M-308 though. I can't find too many people with them. I keep coming back to it. I like the Vortex one at Midway mentioned. I did not know about that one. Anyone have any experience with the Nikon
jaqufrost
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Posted: 2/4/2013 4:39:34 PM


That reticle makes no sense. Spacing is the same between all the hash marks. Maybe I'm missing something but it doesn't appear to be a proper bullet drop compensator.
jettcity1
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Posted: 2/4/2013 4:48:32 PM
Millet TRS, look into it. I got on e on my REPR ( DPMS) and am more than happy with it.
223Rem
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Posted: 2/4/2013 5:46:52 PM
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:


That reticle makes no sense. Spacing is the same between all the hash marks. Maybe I'm missing something but it doesn't appear to be a proper bullet drop compensator.


The BDC could be the turret. If that were the case, then yes the reticle makes perfect sense as the hash marks need to graduated equally for range estimation and hold-over.

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jaqufrost
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Posted: 2/4/2013 6:43:41 PM

Originally Posted By 223Rem:
SNIP


The BDC could be the turret. If that were the case, then yes the reticle makes perfect sense as the hash marks need to graduated equally for range estimation and hold-over.


I'm too used to looking through an ACOG I guess the hash marks are in mils and the turrets are marked for specific ranges.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 10:17:56 PM
a few things to point out .number one you need verticle adjustment to get to 1000 yds not horizontal . second if you are not planning on shooting past 500 yds then you more than likely dont need a 10, 20 or 30mm canted base .
dont try to over think this . spend some time and read a good book on using mil-dots then make a selection everybody has there favorites my self included . for a scope with good glass , mil / mil resetable target turrets and pretty durable it is really hard to pass up the weaver 3x10x40 tactical that midway sells. also unless you need to remove your scope often maybe you dont need quick detach mounts , If you chose to go that route dont skimp larue, adm and bobro make excellent mounts . If you are ok with mounting a scope and leaving it on the rifle then I would suggest you forget about the burris pepr mount I am not sure if its made in the states or not but my personal experience it dont hold to well with heavy recoiling weapons . the rock river mounts while not as glamorous are very substantial and hold up to recoil like a champ plus they are made in the usa . the price is around 60.00 . I hear alot of good things about vortex and own one of there products which has done what they advertise . If you want to drop a little more money then the super sniper 3x9 or leupold v-xr patrol rifle scope are nice options .

this is my 308 set up with weaver scope and rock river mount . to give you an idea of how it mounts.
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