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Scout12
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Posted: 11/21/2012 9:27:54 AM EST
I have always loved the AR platform. I am thinking of going to a larger caliber and and was leaning towards the 308. I then came across the 300 blackout. I know the 300 is a bit smaller but from what I've heard a comparable round to the 308. Please leave your opinions on either and any links to facts for going either way. With the threat of the assault weapons ban looming I am looking to make my decision soon. I am aware that the 300 blackout is compatible with the magazines I already have. Any other information would be greatly appreciated.
libertygunworksinc
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Posted: 11/21/2012 9:34:37 AM EST
308 is an all around cartridge, where as 300 blk is a close quarters round that won't shoot long distances.

they are also on different platforms ar15 vs larger ar10
TaylorWSO
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Posted: 11/21/2012 9:37:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Scout12:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.
Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.
Anything is possible, everything is temporary
azmp5
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Posted: 11/21/2012 10:03:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Scout12:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.
Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.


pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.
DO41WORK
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Posted: 11/21/2012 10:21:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By libertygunworksinc:
308 is an all around cartridge, where as 300 blk is a close quarters round that won't shoot long distances.

they are also on different platforms ar15 vs larger ar10


Search "300 Blackout Year" on YouTube, Travis Haley engaging targets out to 750m with .300 BO.
Quarterbore
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Posted: 11/21/2012 10:25:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Scout12:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.
Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.


Yea... not the same in any measure other then they shoot the same bullet.

The 300 BLK works in your AR-15 so you can get a new upper, the 308 requires a new gun as well as new mags.

The 300 BLK is best as a supressed system but with supersonic ammo it can do just about anything a 30/30 or 7.62x39 can. It just doesn't have the power of the 308 round, not even close!
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btm7687
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Posted: 11/21/2012 11:37:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 11:38:46 AM EST by btm7687]
Originally Posted By azmp5:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Scout12:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.
Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.


pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.


Start at 7m12s



If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik


I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.
Koshinn
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Posted: 11/21/2012 12:17:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By btm7687:
Originally Posted By azmp5:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Scout12:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.
Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.


pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.


Start at 7m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&start=432

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik


I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.


His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "
AbleArcher
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Posted: 11/21/2012 12:35:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By azmp5:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Scout12:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.
Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.


pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.


Will subsonic .308 cycle?
SlowTA
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Posted: 11/21/2012 12:35:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By Koshinn:
Originally Posted By btm7687:
Originally Posted By azmp5:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Scout12:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.
Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.


pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.


Start at 7m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&start=432

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik


I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.


His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "


While I understand and agree with your point, you have to admit that less than 5-10% of this board will EVER need to engage a target at anything over 300 meters unless they are hunting and even then its not all that often. A 308 will be better but will cost you considerably more as well in terms of equipment.

Based off my limited but growing understanding, anything under 200 meters will be great for the 300. Especially inside of 50 meters where most of our extremely limited chances of engagement will ever come.
The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president. - bulldog1967
btm7687
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Posted: 11/21/2012 12:40:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 12:41:32 PM EST by btm7687]
Originally Posted By Koshinn:
Originally Posted By btm7687:
Originally Posted By azmp5:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Scout12:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.
Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.


pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.


Start at 7m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&start=432

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik


I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.


His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "


My post had nothing to do with with the merits of it's worthiness or ideality at 750m. It was a direct response to whoever said it was only accurate out to 200 yards. Who cares what his hold was. The gun shoots where it was supposed to and can make those shots successfully. His setup might have used a red dot, but that doesn't mean every single one has to. Holding 40 feet or not, my point was that it could be accurate enough to make those hits.
Scout12
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Posted: 11/22/2012 6:40:19 AM EST
Thanks for all the opinions this is exactly what I am looking for, good heated debate. Please do not insult each other but defense of you opinions or facts is acceptable. Maybe I should revise my request. Which is the more all around round to use, meaning in close and far out, for an average shooter?
SYSTEM
Posted: 11/22/2012 6:41:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 6:41:47 AM EST by Lancelot]
Topic Moved
JmPnTX
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Posted: 11/22/2012 6:44:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By Scout12:
Thanks for all the opinions this is exactly what I am looking for, good heated debate. Please do not insult each other but defense of you opinions or facts is acceptable. Maybe I should revise my request. Which is the more all around round to use, meaning in close and far out, for an average shooter?


The advantage the 300 has is in using standard AR components: bolt, mags, lowers, etc.. Everything 308 is different and in some cases non standard between manufacturers. Depends on what you're looking for.
BamaInArk
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Posted: 11/22/2012 7:13:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By btm7687:
Originally Posted By Koshinn:
Originally Posted By btm7687:
Originally Posted By azmp5:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Scout12:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.
Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.


pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.


Start at 7m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&start=432

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik


I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.


His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "


My post had nothing to do with with the merits of it's worthiness or ideality at 750m. It was a direct response to whoever said it was only accurate out to 200 yards. Who cares what his hold was. The gun shoots where it was supposed to and can make those shots successfully. His setup might have used a red dot, but that doesn't mean every single one has to. Holding 40 feet or not, my point was that it could be accurate enough to make those hits.


Consistent hits are one thing. Effectiveness at that distance is another. I bet the same hits could be achieved with a .22 LR but that doesn't make it useful at that range. That doesn't mean anyone wants to use a .22 for that type of shooting. The Blackout has it's place. It is NOT however the best bet at longer ranges. The Blackout is GREAT at what it was designed for, short range suppressed. Being able to use almost all of the standard 5.56 components is just a side benefit for some.
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garyd
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Posted: 11/22/2012 7:29:19 AM EST
As already stated they are not even close to being equal.

AS a .300 blkout fan boy I can say even with optimal conditions, 300yds would be the max I would intentionally use it for hunting and honestly if I knew I was going to be shooting 200yds plus then I would grab my .308.

As it is inside 200 yds It is my go to gun for just about anything else.
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346ci
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Posted: 11/22/2012 7:37:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By Koshinn:
His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "


Now you know since a celeb was paid big bucks to do that, it has got to be the best choice.

What a joke. As mentioned, the 300blk would be fine for 200yd shots, anything after that and you will want some more thump. Plenty of better choices out there...
charles_lee_ray
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Posted: 11/22/2012 8:15:52 AM EST
At the 750 meters assumining he's using 125gr rounds and based on velocity data out of an 8.2" barrel from Vuurwapen blog the 125gr round would traveling at just over 950 feet per second with 250ish ft lbs of energy. Which is 25ft lbs more than a 5.56 mk262 at that range from a 20" barrel with a 22 foot hold over and a .308 175gr M118LR has 707ft lbs of energy at that range from a 24" barrel with a 20 foot hold over. As far as power and range the 308 and 300 blk are not comparable, but in the AR platform, the AR15 generally enjoys wide ranges of parts compatibility, getting into the .308 AR there are non compatible AR10 and LR 308 parts. The 300 blk was not designed to replace the .308 it was designed to replace the 5.56 M4, as well as the MP5 SD and the MP7 by filling as many of the roles of these 3 weapons as possible while retaining compatibility with as many parts from the M4 as possible.
6mmAR15
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Posted: 11/22/2012 9:05:07 AM EST
all you have to do is look at the cases.......no comparison.........the 308 holds.....waaayyy more powder.........
azmp5
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Posted: 11/22/2012 10:22:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By btm7687:
Originally Posted By Koshinn:
Originally Posted By btm7687:
Originally Posted By azmp5:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Scout12:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.
Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.


pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.


Start at 7m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&start=432

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik


I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.


His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "


My post had nothing to do with with the merits of it's worthiness or ideality at 750m. It was a direct response to whoever said it was only accurate out to 200 yards. Who cares what his hold was. The gun shoots where it was supposed to and can make those shots successfully. His setup might have used a red dot, but that doesn't mean every single one has to. Holding 40 feet or not, my point was that it could be accurate enough to make those hits.


I am the 1 who said its only good to about 200 yards. I have a .308 but I did consider a 300 at the time but i didnt know much about that round. I wanted to do 500+ yard shooting. the 308 could do that all day long, the 300, after researching it... not so much. yeah, the 300 may be able to go out longer.. but iafter 300 yards, ballistics are going to come into play BIG TIME. As far as this 750 yard shot.. yeah., i am sure it could happen, but as also stated, he had a 41 feet hold over. thats just insane! most people use a 41 inch hold over (and thats extreme) but FEET, yeah.. lets get alittle real here. just like i am sure u can shoot a 22 750 yards with a luck and prayer. doesnt mean its going to be effective either.

BUT, i will sya this for the 300. if i was more into hunting... the 300 is a GREAT round, mostly cause you arent trying to shoot 500+ yards
azmp5
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Posted: 11/22/2012 10:24:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 10:24:51 AM EST by azmp5]
Originally Posted By 6mmAR15:
all you have to do is look at the cases.......no comparison.........the 308 holds.....waaayyy more powder.........


this was going to be my next point. 308 has way more powder. hell, my g/f hunts with a 300 weatherby. that makes my 308 looks like 223 as far as powde goes... and case size as well.
WVHunter1s1k
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:40:11 PM EST
Pretty much what needed to be said has been said.
Concerning the Travis video; With the proper staging many things are possible. I'll leave it at that. No need for a flame war.

Anyhoo, the one thing that has not been asked is: What are your uses for it?
jwb47
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Posted: 11/22/2012 3:20:30 PM EST
I own both . the 300 blackout was a result of my rock river arms 308 not being able to cycle sub sonic rounds . I reload and have a large assortment of 308 bullets from 100 grain through 225 grain . I also shoot a 5.56 and have a ton of brass plus I use lil-gun powder to load for my 458 socom and it just happens it also works good on super sonic blackout loads . So it is a cheap way for me to shoot suppressed and compatible with alot of my other weapons to an extent .
I love shooting the black out suppressed and with super sonics and the can off it is a great walking around rifle , light and easy handling . my 308 is a tack driver but it comes with a price , extra weight about 4 extra pounds .
when setting in a tree stand all day the extra weight is not a problem but when walking up and down the hills on my property and thick brush it is very evident . If I had no choice and was only able to own one it would be my 308 . like hot rodders say there is no replacement for displacement and the 308 definatly has more horse power. other than that the 300 blackout is an excellent deer gun out to 200 yds and varmints 300 or more yds. where I live the 300 can cover most of my shooting.
bigshooter300
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Posted: 11/22/2012 4:42:57 PM EST
Two different beasts you are considering. 308 can do what ever you want, but 300blk is a specialty cartridge of course. Just need to pick what you want to do with the firearm. Right tool for the task at hand is what i try to do.
Aspp
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Posted: 11/22/2012 4:58:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 4:59:10 PM EST by Aspp]
308 in an ar-15 platform look to the 30RAR or 30HRT, that is as close as you can get.

The 300 Blackout is a 30 Carbine that will run subs. Good for sub 200yds, even with the magic 110gr Black Tip.
charles_lee_ray
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Posted: 11/22/2012 6:22:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By azmp5:
Originally Posted By btm7687:
Originally Posted By Koshinn:
Originally Posted By btm7687:
Originally Posted By azmp5:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Scout12:
I've heard a comparable round to the 308.
Comparable, yeah diameter is the same, other than that not even close.


pretty much sums it up. if u want to go past 200 yards and be accurate, .308. if ur under 200 then go ahead and do 300. but u a 308 can do everything a 300 can.


Start at 7m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik&start=432

If that doesn't work go to the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik


I don't know about you, but consistent hits at 750m out of an SBR using a red dot would lead me to believe it's a little more useful than 200 yards.


His hold was 41 FEET higher than the target...

"Just because someone can make a 750m shot with a .300Blk does not mean that it's a loading that's ideal for 750m (especially with just an un-magnified T1)––just like I cannot call a 9mm handgun a, '300m effective weapon' just because we happened to hit some targets at 300m with them. "


My post had nothing to do with with the merits of it's worthiness or ideality at 750m. It was a direct response to whoever said it was only accurate out to 200 yards. Who cares what his hold was. The gun shoots where it was supposed to and can make those shots successfully. His setup might have used a red dot, but that doesn't mean every single one has to. Holding 40 feet or not, my point was that it could be accurate enough to make those hits.


I am the 1 who said its only good to about 200 yards. I have a .308 but I did consider a 300 at the time but i didnt know much about that round. I wanted to do 500+ yard shooting. the 308 could do that all day long, the 300, after researching it... not so much. yeah, the 300 may be able to go out longer.. but iafter 300 yards, ballistics are going to come into play BIG TIME. As far as this 750 yard shot.. yeah., i am sure it could happen, but as also stated, he had a 41 feet hold over. thats just insane! most people use a 41 inch hold over (and thats extreme) but FEET, yeah.. lets get alittle real here. just like i am sure u can shoot a 22 750 yards with a luck and prayer. doesnt mean its going to be effective either.

BUT, i will sya this for the 300. if i was more into hunting... the 300 is a GREAT round, mostly cause you arent trying to shoot 500+ yards


The shots were at 750 meters which is roughly 820 yards.
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