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bodybagger
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Posted: 7/30/2012 11:54:19 PM
Only one country officially adopted the M-14. Are you suggesting that it isn't a military stamdard? Also the 1903 Springfield. While both rifles were used by other countries they got them from us. By your suggestion, a rifle has to be adopted by a nation to be a military standard. What nation adopted the Ar-10 that uses modified M-14 mags as their standard battle rifle(not a specialty rifle)? I know, NONE! But 3 did adopt the genuine AR-10 decades ago. Now please get over yourself. I will in no way deride the quality of the ner AR-10 but it, despite owning the naming rights, is not a real AR-10 if it doesn't take original AR-10 magazines. If I start making a semi-auto M-14 that uses CETME mags because they are cheaper and more readily available than M-14 mags is that a true M-14?
Obo2
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Posted: 7/30/2012 11:58:04 PM
I am just looking at getting in to the ar10/308 ar platform.

I think it is perfectly fine to refer to any 308 ar as an ar 10 when you are talking to the layman on the street.

Once you are posting in a technical forum such as this I think it behooves all of us to use as accurate nomenclature as possible.

Let's say I have been misinformed by inproper nomenclature usage on a forum such as this and I ask a simple question like what part i should get for my ar10 when i really have a dpms pattern 308 ar someone will suggest the wrong part I will order it and it won't fit and i will have either wasted my money be forced to modify the part or waste my time and money returning it.

That all said my thread got little attention and I am still looking for some more info.

The build I am putting together in my head is a nice match barrel and trigger comfy furniture and other parts just need to be affordable and reliable.

I would like to go with something like a tm lower just to get my foot in the door and wondering what my choices would be for a decent match grade maybe 18-20" (affordable doesn't hurt hear either) barrel
RUTGERS95
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Posted: 7/31/2012 11:21:53 AM
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By RUTGERS95:

most people refer to 308 ar platform as ar10. If armalite owners get tight panties over it, who cares? OP, enjoy your AR10 whether it's DPMS or someone else's.


See, that's just the thing. I'm no Armalite fanboi (bought my LMT and built a MA-TEN vs buying the AR10SASS), but there -are- parts and fitment differences between Armalite AR10, and other 308-based AR rifles. That, to me, is the significant part.


agree but it's just a reference point in the discussion as most people look at 308 ars as ar10s. If being technical like someone said, then you need to be more specific. Then again it doesn't matter as there is no standard to the 308 ar platform so you'd have to be more specific in a technical discussion. I just get a kick out of the guys that get so bent out of shape over something that really is harmless in a conversational setting. What is next, mag vs clip:)
BB
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Posted: 7/31/2012 12:48:12 PM
Originally Posted By RUTGERS95:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By RUTGERS95:

most people refer to 308 ar platform as ar10. If armalite owners get tight panties over it, who cares? OP, enjoy your AR10 whether it's DPMS or someone else's.


See, that's just the thing. I'm no Armalite fanboi (bought my LMT and built a MA-TEN vs buying the AR10SASS), but there -are- parts and fitment differences between Armalite AR10, and other 308-based AR rifles. That, to me, is the significant part.


agree but it's just a reference point in the discussion as most people look at 308 ars as ar10s. If being technical like someone said, then you need to be more specific. Then again it doesn't matter as there is no standard to the 308 ar platform so you'd have to be more specific in a technical discussion. I just get a kick out of the guys that get so bent out of shape over something that really is harmless in a conversational setting. What is next, mag vs clip:)

How about "assault weapon". "Most people" look at our rifles as "assault weapons" so we should just not worry about that harmless term in conversational settings.
RUTGERS95
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Posted: 7/31/2012 1:09:32 PM
Originally Posted By BB:
Originally Posted By RUTGERS95:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By RUTGERS95:

most people refer to 308 ar platform as ar10. If armalite owners get tight panties over it, who cares? OP, enjoy your AR10 whether it's DPMS or someone else's.


See, that's just the thing. I'm no Armalite fanboi (bought my LMT and built a MA-TEN vs buying the AR10SASS), but there -are- parts and fitment differences between Armalite AR10, and other 308-based AR rifles. That, to me, is the significant part.


agree but it's just a reference point in the discussion as most people look at 308 ars as ar10s. If being technical like someone said, then you need to be more specific. Then again it doesn't matter as there is no standard to the 308 ar platform so you'd have to be more specific in a technical discussion. I just get a kick out of the guys that get so bent out of shape over something that really is harmless in a conversational setting. What is next, mag vs clip:)

How about "assault weapon". "Most people" look at our rifles as "assault weapons" so we should just not worry about that harmless term in conversational settings.



how about the EE section here for .308s? I believe it's 'ar-10' and not '308s'....case closed


BB
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Posted: 7/31/2012 1:47:08 PM
Originally Posted By RUTGERS95:
Originally Posted By BB:
Originally Posted By RUTGERS95:
Originally Posted By motoguy:

Originally Posted By RUTGERS95:

most people refer to 308 ar platform as ar10. If armalite owners get tight panties over it, who cares? OP, enjoy your AR10 whether it's DPMS or someone else's.


See, that's just the thing. I'm no Armalite fanboi (bought my LMT and built a MA-TEN vs buying the AR10SASS), but there -are- parts and fitment differences between Armalite AR10, and other 308-based AR rifles. That, to me, is the significant part.


agree but it's just a reference point in the discussion as most people look at 308 ars as ar10s. If being technical like someone said, then you need to be more specific. Then again it doesn't matter as there is no standard to the 308 ar platform so you'd have to be more specific in a technical discussion. I just get a kick out of the guys that get so bent out of shape over something that really is harmless in a conversational setting. What is next, mag vs clip:)

How about "assault weapon". "Most people" look at our rifles as "assault weapons" so we should just not worry about that harmless term in conversational settings.



how about the EE section here for .308s? I believe it's 'ar-10' and not '308s'....case closed


Actually people post in both rifles and AR10s. But thats not the point; the point is, you say its "harmless". It depends on what you deem harmful. Use of "assault weapon" or "automatic weapon" for any mag fed semiauto is harmful to the 2nd amendment to many people. Use of improper terminology like "AR10" to describe any 308 AR, or "platform" to describe a design or weapon system, or "clip" for magazine, will do harm to the impression you present to some people. Arguing against the use of proper terminology does too. Folks make judgments; that's just the way it is.

RUTGERS95
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Posted: 7/31/2012 1:55:04 PM
whatever you say but when I look to sell or buy something 308, I head to ar-10 section
Carbinekid
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Posted: 7/31/2012 3:17:04 PM
Originally Posted By TREADMARKS:

One of the best improvements Armalite has made, and there are many, was to use the modded M14 steel box magazine.



If that were true they why did they come out with a completely new gun that accepts the industry standard original AR10/SR25/DPMS mags?

The B is dead long live the A, give it time there will be a standard.
AR10 has always been a nomenclature like xerox and bobcat if you are first to do a thing all else who follow are refered to by the original's name as a nomenclare.
BB
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Posted: 7/31/2012 3:24:59 PM
Originally Posted By Carbinekid:
Originally Posted By TREADMARKS:

One of the best improvements Armalite has made, and there are many, was to use the modded M14 steel box magazine.



If that were true they why did they come out with a completely new gun that accepts the industry standard original AR10/SR25/DPMS mags?

They did it to sell guns of course. Lots of people have said they'd buy an Armalite if it took PMAGs, so they made it. Its not "completely new"; the only difference is the receivers, everything else is the same.
motoguy
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Posted: 7/31/2012 3:57:29 PM

Originally Posted By BB:

They did it to sell guns of course. Lots of people have said they'd buy an Armalite if it took PMAGs, so they made it. Its not "completely new"; the only difference is the receivers, everything else is the same.

This is the correct answer. They did it to collect on some of those sales they were missing. I'm a prime of example of one of those "would have bought one if it used pmags" guys. Not that pmags are better, but as I already own an LMT MWS, I wanted interchangeable 308 mags.

BrowardMason
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Posted: 7/31/2012 4:23:32 PM
Originally Posted By northpark:
DPMS actually makes some pretty nice AR10's


No. No they don't. Only Armalite makes AR 10s.
As above, so below.

We are the Light Bearers.
eodinert
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Posted: 8/2/2012 9:47:19 AM
And only colt makes AR15s... but I still call my PWA, RRA, and Cav rifles AR15.
BB
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Posted: 8/2/2012 10:06:16 AM
[Last Edit: 8/2/2012 10:06:42 AM by BB]
Originally Posted By eodinert:
And only colt makes AR15s... but I still call my PWA, RRA, and Cav rifles AR15.

Thats because they are all essentially the same rifle design (standard). Go drop a DPMS upper on a Armalite lower and see how that works for you.
Camaroecko
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Posted: 8/2/2012 10:56:52 AM
[Last Edit: 8/2/2012 11:08:06 AM by Camaroecko]
Wow OP, you may as well start a new thread if you want answers. This one has been taken over by the AR-10 police.

I can't believe the insinuation that everyone who refers to their .308 AR as a AR-10 must somehow have black rifle envy.

Let me guess, when you cut your finger open and ask your wife for a band-aid and she hands you a Wal-mart brand you yell "Damn you woman! I asked for a Band-aid, not an adhesive bandage!"
And you throw store brand gelatin against the wall and demand real Jell-o?

If this was a discussion about part funtionality that would be fine.
He was asking whether a DPMS .308 would be a good buy.

I wouldn't be surprised if this entire situation has left a bad taste in someone's mouth that was interested in joining up with us in some recreational shooting.

If you want to be that guy at the range who corrects everyone on their terminology, go do that.
Leave the uninformed to people who actually want to educate, not correct.

It's not like someone ripped the logos off a Toyota and is trying to sell it to you as a Lexus.

Short answer OP: Yes a DPMS pattern .308 AR is a great choice. I have several. I will also plan on buying a LMT MWS and if I found a good deal on an Armalite Ar-10 that took P-mags I would snatch that up too.

Just ignore the people that INSIST you only use correct terminology. They usually (and I say usually, not always) are trying to defend their brand name as the "original" just like the Colt fellas in 5.56
Take it with a grain of salt.
RUTGERS95
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Posted: 8/2/2012 12:39:45 PM
Originally Posted By Camaroecko:
Wow OP, you may as well start a new thread if you want answers. This one has been taken over by the AR-10 police.

I can't believe the insinuation that everyone who refers to their .308 AR as a AR-10 must somehow have black rifle envy.

Let me guess, when you cut your finger open and ask your wife for a band-aid and she hands you a Wal-mart brand you yell "Damn you woman! I asked for a Band-aid, not an adhesive bandage!"
And you throw store brand gelatin against the wall and demand real Jell-o?

If this was a discussion about part funtionality that would be fine.
He was asking whether a DPMS .308 would be a good buy.

I wouldn't be surprised if this entire situation has left a bad taste in someone's mouth that was interested in joining up with us in some recreational shooting.

If you want to be that guy at the range who corrects everyone on their terminology, go do that.
Leave the uninformed to people who actually want to educate, not correct.

It's not like someone ripped the logos off a Toyota and is trying to sell it to you as a Lexus.

Short answer OP: Yes a DPMS pattern .308 AR is a great choice. I have several. I will also plan on buying a LMT MWS and if I found a good deal on an Armalite Ar-10 that took P-mags I would snatch that up too.

Just ignore the people that INSIST you only use correct terminology. They usually (and I say usually, not always) are trying to defend their brand name as the "original" just like the Colt fellas in 5.56
Take it with a grain of salt.


as I said earlier, this very site refers to all things .308 as AR10. Let me head over to the EE section and look for a 308 in the section marked AR10
Camaroecko
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Posted: 8/2/2012 3:41:30 PM
Originally Posted By RUTGERS95:
Originally Posted By Camaroecko:
Wow OP, you may as well start a new thread if you want answers. This one has been taken over by the AR-10 police.

I can't believe the insinuation that everyone who refers to their .308 AR as a AR-10 must somehow have black rifle envy.

Let me guess, when you cut your finger open and ask your wife for a band-aid and she hands you a Wal-mart brand you yell "Damn you woman! I asked for a Band-aid, not an adhesive bandage!"
And you throw store brand gelatin against the wall and demand real Jell-o?

If this was a discussion about part funtionality that would be fine.
He was asking whether a DPMS .308 would be a good buy.

I wouldn't be surprised if this entire situation has left a bad taste in someone's mouth that was interested in joining up with us in some recreational shooting.

If you want to be that guy at the range who corrects everyone on their terminology, go do that.
Leave the uninformed to people who actually want to educate, not correct.

It's not like someone ripped the logos off a Toyota and is trying to sell it to you as a Lexus.

Short answer OP: Yes a DPMS pattern .308 AR is a great choice. I have several. I will also plan on buying a LMT MWS and if I found a good deal on an Armalite Ar-10 that took P-mags I would snatch that up too.

Just ignore the people that INSIST you only use correct terminology. They usually (and I say usually, not always) are trying to defend their brand name as the "original" just like the Colt fellas in 5.56
Take it with a grain of salt.


as I said earlier, this very site refers to all things .308 as AR10. Let me head over to the EE section and look for a 308 in the section marked AR10


That's very true. It's listed AR10. Everything AR10 related. Look inside? Well smack my ass there's a LMT, a DPMS and a RRA. Just goe to show that the term is a catch all for the layman. But some people want it ONLY to apply to their rifle. Which is FINE! But if I was a new kid on the block and I started with "which ar-10 should I buy" I shouldn't have to be ridden out of town for it.


madcratebuilder
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Posted: 8/3/2012 11:08:01 AM
[Last Edit: 8/3/2012 11:13:46 AM by madcratebuilder]
Originally Posted By Carbinekid:
Originally Posted By TREADMARKS:

One of the best improvements Armalite has made, and there are many, was to use the modded M14 steel box magazine.



If that were true they why did they come out with a completely new gun that accepts the industry standard original AR10/SR25/DPMS mags?

The B is dead long live the A, give it time there will be a standard.
AR10 has always been a nomenclature like xerox and bobcat if you are first to do a thing all else who follow are refered to by the original's name as a nomenclare.


ArmaLite used the M14 mags because of the AWB that was in effect at the time. The SR-25 magazine is the defacto standard now and ArmaLite was released a new AR-10A that uses the SR-25 mags.

The AR-10B is not dead, there are ten's of thousands of them out there and more to come.

Ar-10 may be uses by the uninformed, but anyone with knowledge of the 7.61 AR platform well use the correct nomenclature. There are too many different platforms with too many incompatible parts. You don't call all double action revolvers Smith and Wesson do you? All Single action revolvers Colt?
chucky888
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Posted: 8/3/2012 12:10:24 PM
[Last Edit: 8/3/2012 12:13:06 PM by chucky888]
Originally Posted By BB:
Originally Posted By eodinert:
And only colt makes AR15s... but I still call my PWA, RRA, and Cav rifles AR15.

Thats because they are all essentially the same rifle design (standard). Go drop a DPMS upper on a Armalite lower and see how that works for you.


+1.

What he mean was that DPMS pattern BCG is different than AR-10 BCG in head space. They are NOT interchange-able. It is important to know that in a discuss, not necessary in a causal conversation.

Unlike AR15, you can use any reputible BCG in your upper receiver (but still don't use a piston type BCG, OK)

RUTGERS95
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Posted: 8/3/2012 1:35:59 PM
Originally Posted By madcratebuilder:
Originally Posted By Carbinekid:
Originally Posted By TREADMARKS:

One of the best improvements Armalite has made, and there are many, was to use the modded M14 steel box magazine.



If that were true they why did they come out with a completely new gun that accepts the industry standard original AR10/SR25/DPMS mags?

The B is dead long live the A, give it time there will be a standard.
AR10 has always been a nomenclature like xerox and bobcat if you are first to do a thing all else who follow are refered to by the original's name as a nomenclare.


ArmaLite used the M14 mags because of the AWB that was in effect at the time. The SR-25 magazine is the defacto standard now and ArmaLite was released a new AR-10A that uses the SR-25 mags.

The AR-10B is not dead, there are ten's of thousands of them out there and more to come.

Ar-10 may be uses by the uninformed, but anyone with knowledge of the 7.61 AR platform well use the correct nomenclature. There are too many different platforms with too many incompatible parts. You don't call all double action revolvers Smith and Wesson do you? All Single action revolvers Colt?


no one is arguing this, what most here are saying is that in discussion and in general, it's ok to refer to 308s as ar10s.
chucky888
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Posted: 8/3/2012 2:25:10 PM
Well, it may come across that some people are real sticker like a "AR-10" police to correct people all the time. In general it is not a big deal. When it come to AR15, I call my POF P415 a AR15. It just take too long to explain to those shotgun and deer rifle folks what piston and DI is...

I used to think that AR10 is a general terms for all 308 AR platform until I build my own. If they are mostly compatible it would NOT be a issue. It is just the upper and lower recevier are different; 45┬░ cut vs round cut and most improtantly the headspace in BCG is incompatible between "AR-10" and all other 308 AR.

Those people who point this out just don't want you to drop a AR-10 bolt group into a DPMS rifle that is all.
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