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Posted: 6/9/2012 12:29:16 AM
[Last Edit: 8/31/2012 2:07:16 AM by 79Berlinetta]
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT I bought a set of Lee 300 AAC Blackout dies so that I could build 300 AAC Blackout cases from my too short and ruined .223 Rem cases. It took me a while to get the process down on how to first cut the .223 Rem's neck off without making a complete mess and taking all day to cut them. I finaly hit on using my Dremmel tool with a cutoff wheel on it! 127 cases cut in about 20 minutes! Next was getting the necking die to work right. I read somewhere that you have to anneal the neck area of the shell that softens the brass up so you can reform it without splitting the case. So I set up a pan of cold water and annealed five rounds just to be sure that it waw what I realy needed to do. Well, it wasn't the way o go as I noticed NO difference in forming them with cases that weren't annealed. I did put Hoppe's gun oil on the bullet end of the cases before I loaded them into the forming die which more than helped get the brass reformed. Next step was to cut the new 300 AAC Blackout rounds to length. The blueprint that I found at the AAC website said to cut them to 1/368" COL. I used my RCBS Shell Cutter that I motorise with my Sears Craftsman cordless 1/2" drill driver. The cordless drill makes cutting brass a 100% easer! After cutting all 127 cases to 1/370, I power deburred them with my cordless drill. I'll post a picture of the finished brass when I get time in the next few days. |
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Posted: 6/9/2012 12:51:23 AM
Now for my question on what bullet to use and what powder to use to drive that round down range.
The ONLY reason that I'm involved with the 300 AAC Blackout bullets and building an upper in 300 AAC Blackout is to hunt deer in Delaware, County, NY. Most deer are taken at around 30 yards. A few are taken at distances greater than 30 yards but less than 50 yards. VERY FEW deer are taken at distance claimed to be over 100 yards. The fact that the majority of deer are taken at distance under 50 yards, in my mind, makes the ballistics of the 300 AAC Blackout a winner over the .223 Rem round. Having said that, what bullet should I load in my 300 AAC Blackout cases and how many grains of what powder should I use in it? Bullet data needed: style (hollow point, solid point, etc., grain of the bullet (85, 125, 225 grain or anything between them?)? I currently have Hodgdon 4895 and Winchester 748 in stock that I’ve been loading into my .223 Rem rounds but, according to the Hodgdon reloading data http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp it appears that the 300 AAC Blackout doesn’t use either of them! Any and all input will be greatly appreciated. |
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Posted: 6/9/2012 1:00:59 AM
Just took this picture of my new 300 AAC Blackout brass that I made today. ![]() |
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Posted: 6/9/2012 1:41:34 AM
For any super sonic Hunting with the 300 blk I would personally use the 110 gr Barnes TTX black tip.
Cant help you with the powder except it needs to be something faster than what you have. |
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Posted: 6/9/2012 2:26:49 AM
H110 for powder.
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Posted: 6/9/2012 3:55:03 AM
1.368 is a case max length, I trim the case back to 1.358. The 5.56 case really doesn't need to be opened to 30 cal, once the case is cut off, the neck if formed down to length. Lube in the case mouth does help when you run the expander through the neck.
I've switched to using Ligun powder, and have hit my velocity targets without pressure signs A 125 ballistic tip would work, and the top of the heap is the Barnes 110gr TTSX Black tip. Start your ladder at 17.3 Lilgun with the ballistic tip(2080 fps), I've loaded above 18 gr and get 2250 fps with a CCI 450, 2.085 oal. 16 inch barrel. Blacktip. Start testing around 19 gr(2260 fps), and work higher. 2400 is easy, and I've reached 2500 fps, 6000 ft ASL, 80deg. I had to load the Blacktip long and use an HK 416 mag. 2400fps will be fine for a close deer, and the bullet has a nice crimp groove. Research and look at factory load manuals. Data here is just for info, not loading data. |
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Posted: 6/9/2012 9:11:56 AM
[Last Edit: 6/9/2012 9:20:32 AM by 79Berlinetta]
Thanks to al for all of the information.
The Hodgdon websites's loading information is, to say the least, OVERWHEMING! I will follow their data to the letter so my reloading question was directed at "what works for you/personal experience with actually shooting 300 AAC Blackout rounds. As for the length of the brass, I can always make them shorter but no longer so I fabricated them to the longest length. I think the brass turned out very nice especially when you consider I've never "built" a round from one caliber to another. I did a lot of reading, a lot of asking, and "re-invented" the whell along the way to making them. I did find that annealing the brass was unnecessary for my brass. Someone elses brass may have to be annealed to prevent cracking the cases. Lubricating the mouth of the un-resized brass was a must do when resizing and cutting it to length. I'm anal about measuring everything in this process as this is an entirely new endevor for me. I have to say it is fun and rewarding! The end prduct looks impressive and I salvaved 127 pieces of brass that would have been sold for scrap. |
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Posted: 6/9/2012 11:25:22 AM
[Last Edit: 6/9/2012 11:26:38 AM by 10milg29]
I agree, use the black tips and H110. Published data (Lee) has a start of 18.8 grains up to a never exceed of 20.0 grains. The minimum OAL is 2.040. I will say that I have pushed these a little faster. Use the aforementioned at your own risk and work your loads up from minimum. Black tips work well!
On edit: Annealing is not just for cracked necks. If you appreciate poor accuracy, try annealing and your loads may tighten a bit. |
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Posted: 6/10/2012 12:20:59 AM
I fogot to mention how I cut the .223 Rem cases so that they had only the body of the case & base but not the arear from the start of the neck forward. I used my Dermmel with a cutoff blade. It worked a lot easier than a hobby hacksaw, that's for sure. IF I were going to do many more rounds, say 500 or more, I'd put them in my lathe and use the cutoff tool which would make a cleaner cut.
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Posted: 6/29/2012 2:55:49 AM
Bought Hornady 110 grain V-Max bullets that were on sale at Midway USA.
I'm still sorting my .223 Rem brass and so far I've got around 200 .300 AAC Blackout pieces of brass built. I can hardly wait to have enough money to buy a Del-Ton .223 Rem kit to put my lower on, and a CMMG .300 AAC Blackout barrel to replace the .223 Rem barrel! At the rate I'm saving money and selling things, I should have enough money to buy the kit and barrel in three months. |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 9:01:43 AM
Barnes 300 Blackout 110 TTSX all the way
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Posted: 6/29/2012 9:04:51 AM
Originally Posted By 79Berlinetta:
Just took this picture of my new 300 AAC Blackout brass that I made today. Get a L.E. Wilson Case Gauge as it makes it simple to check your brass. |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 10:26:56 AM
Looks good, I think it's pretty neat making a totally new round out of an old case too. I started with my Dremmel also but quickly switched to a mini cutoff saw, nice clean cut and it's fast. I haven't tried annealing yet but my brass has only two rounds through them with no signs of splits. I did try some Sierra 110gr but they wouldn't feed reliably even at max length, so I'm sticking to 125's or 130's which were flawless. I think you got it down pretty good.
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Posted: 6/29/2012 12:52:52 PM
As for bullet selection the Barnes 110 gr is probably the best bullet made specifically for the blackout. However, I've tried 110 gr hornady vmaxs with decent groups of 1-1.5" at 100 bench rest style shooting with a 3-9 scope and a lead sled. I found my barrel seems to like 125 gr nosler bt's. If my car didn't break down I would have been at the range testing more loads. 150 nosler bt's are next with 208 gr amax loads. I tend to use h110...however I like lilgun more. It generally doesn't have quite as much cling as the h110 in my experience. If you look at the 300 blk talk forum there are good threads on .300 blk loadings. I can't remember the name of the bullet maker, but someone offers a heavy bullet that opens at lower speeds. I plan on shooting 125's for this years hunting season.
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Posted: 6/29/2012 1:06:47 PM
Those Barnes bullets are wicked! I wil be using then for hunting this year for sure.
I found some Hornady 150gr BT FMJs for cheap localy. Anyone have a good load for them using H110? |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 1:14:38 PM
Saab drifter
I believe there is some data out for 147 gr fmj that is well tested and known. Give me a few munites to look on load data and the 300 blk talk forum. |
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Posted: 6/30/2012 12:52:42 AM
Gets some Speer 150 gr BT's at your hunting distances they should be an absolute hammer. With 16,8gr of Lil'Gun an a COAL of 2.100" I get 1915 fps out of my 16" CMMG.
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Posted: 8/6/2012 11:29:39 PM
UPDATE:
I finally got enough money to finish my .300 AAC Blackout rifle. Here are the particulars: Stock and pistol: ATI AR2400 Buffer Tube ASM: Omega Tactical Corp. Stripped Lower: Palmetto State Armory Lower parts kit: DPMS Bolt carrier & charging handle: Sarco Upper assembly: Red X Arms Scope: Tasco Prong Horn 3-9 X 40 mm And here's what it looks like:
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Posted: 8/7/2012 12:03:17 AM
That's the good news.
Now for the bad news. I reloaded about 50 rounds and I've done something WRONG with them. Half of them won't allow the bolt to lock up. I think I've found what is wrong with them as I didn't set the Lee sizing die up correctly. I re-read the directions a dozen times and finally got it through my thick skull what they were talking about. Understand that I am dyslexic so written directions don't work for me but oral ones do. Now that I have the brass in specification, now I need advice on EXACTLY what the completed rounds should be. Here’s what I have so far: Part I Re-reformed .223 Rem cases that are 1.368” COL. The distance from the base of the cartridge to the beginning of the neck is 1.0700” nominal. The distance from the base of the cartridge to the beginning of the projectile diameter is 1.102” nominal. An primed but empty (not loaded) case now allows the bolt carrier assembly to go to battery whereas before I got the Lee forming die set, the bolt carrier assembly would NOT lock up! Can I assume that the brass is now in specification? Part II For bullets, I have Hornady V-Max #23010 110 grain bullets. They are .935” long. According to the Hodgdon reloading data on their website, the COL minimum is 2.040”. That means that .263” of the bullet is seated in the case (2.040” - 1.360” = .672” - .935” = .263”). Is this correct? I do NOT have a crimp die for a .300 AAC Blackout. The directions that came with my Lee die set give a part number of 90590. Do I need to buy that crimp die? The reloading data on the Hodgdon website says that there can be from 18.8 to 20.0 grains of H110. I loaded 19.4 grains of H110 and all of the rounds that would lock up were fairly accurate given that it was VERY frustrating having MOST of my rounds not letting the bolt lock up! I’ve since unloaded all of my rounds, run them back through the (now properly set) forming die and will be loading rounds after I hear from all of you that I’m on the right path to success or not. As always, any and all advice will be greatly appreciated. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 2:02:08 AM
I'm wide awake so I decided to reload six rounds and see IF everything fits what I have been talking about.
Set the RCBS powder thrower to 19.4 grains of H110 powder. Set the COL at 2.040". Loaded six rounds. All six rounds chamber and eject FLAWLESSLY! Nothing suceeds like sucess! |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 9:07:57 AM
I applaude anyone who forms their own brass but think this option is easier for many of us.
I've reloaded approx. 500 units of this re-formed .223 and it works great, the price is right also! http://www.blackoutbrass.com/ |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 10:27:52 AM
For plinking I go with Sierra 125 gr SP w/ H110 or Hornady 110 gr SP w/ 2400. I get 2107 fps and 2175 fps respectively on average from my 16" M4 style rifle. Accuracy is good, recoil is next to nothing, and they are very affordable to shoot. For hunting I loaded 110 gr TTSX w/ H110 at about 2375 fps. These are just the regular blue tip bullets, not the black tip ones made for 300 BLK. Function is still 100% with good accuracy.
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Posted: 8/7/2012 10:46:10 PM
I'm the product of parents who lived through the great depression = I HATE to throw away anything that my have a use hence the .300 AAC Blackout formed from .223 Rem cases that I would have scrapped fits my "id".
I reloaded six rounds today and fired them from a five round magazine. One round failed to let the bolt go to battery. I think it somehow evaded my running them through the PROPERLY setup Lee resizing die. So now I'm going to have to audit all my brass AGAIN. Fortunately, all I have is about 170 rounds to inspect. I like the .300 AAC Blackout that I built EXCEPT for the forend grip picatiany rails are hard on my hands. I may get some rail covers as I found a place that sells a set of four for under $15. What little that I have shot it has shown me that it is sweet to shoot! I need to get some range time with it to get more confortable with it though. I want to thank everyone for their input. All help and advice is greatly appreciated. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 8:24:25 AM
Originally Posted By BLDTYLRY:
Originally Posted By 79Berlinetta:
Just took this picture of my new 300 AAC Blackout brass that I made today. Get a L.E. Wilson Case Gauge as it makes it simple to check your brass. +100 on this. It's real easy to set the sizing die wrong and have out-of-spec cases. I use H-110 for everything from 110 gr V-Max to 155gr V-Max. here's a link to some Chrony work I did last weekend. 300 BLK Chrony |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 8:21:46 PM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 8:23:15 PM by mjbennett]
I bought a cheap-o little drillmaster chopsaw from harbor freight to cut my 223 brass to rough length, then run it throught the resizing die.
I found my reformed brass difficult to chamber after loading so I've started turning the necks down on my case trimmer and it seems to have corrected the issue. That could be the issue you ran into with the one round that the bolt did not fully go into battery. |
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Posted: 8/10/2012 9:05:21 AM
+ 1001 Get a L.E. Wilson Case Gauge... It will allow you to size to Factory specs. Being slightly off here can cause problems. it will also allow your cartridges to chamber in any in spec barrel. Case length is important too. 1.368 Max. In my opinion crimping should be done, One thing i noticed and had to correct is neck tension. One sizer pass was not enough, had to run cases twice thru sizer on newly formed 5.56/.223 cases,,,,Lube cases good |
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