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 countryboy52590 
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 Posts: 472 Feedback: 100% (28) |
Posted: 4/22/2012 2:41:03 AM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT So far it seems to me that the 300 AAC Blackout would be the better choice and would also have a cheaper selection of factory ammo available. So give me some info here. Which would be more practical for my application? On a side note, I'd like it to be a standard A3/A4 style upper not some fancy garb. Also I'd like the barrel length to be 16-20". All ive seen so far in 300BLK is 16" bbls at the longest. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 2:49:48 AM
Ballistics, choice would be 6.8.
If you're planning on running suppressed and shooting under 200 yards, 300 blackout. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 3:10:41 AM
if you have no plan to shoot subsonic suppressed, go with the 6.8
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Recoil737
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Posted: 4/22/2012 5:37:56 AM
Unlike the 6.8 the 300BLK uses a standard AR bolt, uses standard AR magazines, has more ammo available with increasing amounts every couple months, has cheaper ammo available, has vast industry support, the brass can be made out of .223 brass. If you are into reloading then the brass is less than half as much as 6.8 and you can get 1000 rounds of 145gr plinking bullets for under $130. the 6.8 can't even come close to that since it has no mil surplus rounds to pick from.
The 300BLK is SAAMI approved meaning that no matter what dealer you buy ammo, barrels, uppers or complete rifles from they will fall within the safety limits imposed by SAAMI. If you want to hunt deer much beyond 300 yards you will probably want to go with something bigger than the 300BLK. If you want to plink beyond 300 yards I have no problem hitting popper plates at 500 yards with the 300BLK. If you want to plink further than that you will probably have to step up to a .308 or a 6.5 which should give you around a thousand yard shooting capability. If you want a rifle with no special parts other than the barrel, is great at home defense, is a cheaper plinker and can hunt anything the 6.8 can out to 300 yards then the 300BLK would be less costly and work perfect for what you are asking. |
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sandblaster
GO GATORS! GO TEBOW!
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Posted: 4/22/2012 5:51:09 AM
I think the 6.8 is a good choice for individuals wishing a supersonic specialize cartridge. However the .300 BLK can do everything the 6.8 can do out to 400 yards supersonically (at somewhat slower velocities) - subsonically the .300 BLK is in a class of it's own.
Therefore the .300 BLK is a dual hatted extremely verstatile cartridge using 5.56mm magazines, .308 bullets, 5.56mm bolts, and 5.56mm brass which is a beautiful thang IMO. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 7:52:42 AM
I went with the .300 because I wanted the short barrel and ability to shoot subsonic/suppressed more than the superior ballistic performance as well as the standard magazines and bolt.
Where you are hunting and the range of shots you expect to take sound like the real determining factor. |
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Desert_AIP
I always get the shakes before a drop
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Posted: 4/22/2012 8:23:30 AM
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 9:09:13 AM by Desert_AIP]
Ballistically 6.8.
SBR 6.8. There's a lot of subsonic 6.8 shooters and the new 140gr ammo is coming out. I disagree with the poster above implying there is little or spotty industry support for 6.8. Ammo for anything other than standard military cartridges is going to be relatively expensive. 6.8 is established and the growing pains already worked out. AAC's own chart is deceiving. The data for the 16" barrel for the 6.8 is Reminton's anemic 115gr SPC loading, not the current SPCII/DMR loadings from SSA or Hornady. The SSA 115 OTM is going ~2500fps from a 16" 1/10 barrel, with 1600ftlbs. It'll get about 100fps faster in a 1/11-1/12 barrel with no loss in accuracy. An 85TSX is going ~3000fps from a 16" barrel, 1700ftlbs. SSA 6.8 Ballistics 
The 6.8 develops something like 80% of its final velocity in the first 10" of barrel. It's interesting AAC chose 9" as the comparison barrel instead of the more common 10-12" barrels. 68Forums has lots of subsonic load data. Look at the cartridge length of that 123grain Blackout load. There is a LOT of runup in the chamber prior to engaging the rifling. That is going to play havoc with accuracy and consistency. 
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Posted: 4/22/2012 8:38:20 AM
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 8:39:22 AM by 10milg29]
I just made the same decision. I went with 300 Blackout. I did so on the basis that I would be at the mercy of the industry with 6.8. It could die out at any time. 300 blackout will always be around, as I have the reloading dies and .223 brass will be around for many years to come. 6.8, while ballistic ally superior, is dependent on too many proprietary components. 300 blackout will do just fine for hunting.
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Desert_AIP
I always get the shakes before a drop
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Posted: 4/22/2012 9:25:03 AM
And with respect to using "standard GI mags".
From an earlier discussion: Originally Posted by constructor:
..the Blackout has a longer leade so loading them back in the case to clear the ribs makes 1/4" jump and accuracy suffers. Silvers aid he had it all worked out in the pre production R&D but, doesn't appear that way. Originally Posted by Clint:
It is explained in the excellent PDF. With this round, the mag rib guides on the ogive of the bullet, rather than the case neck. The oal of the rounds is adjusted around 2.000" so the ogive dia at the point of contact is around .250", matching the .253" max neck dia. of 223/556. This should work with pmags too. A clever idea. I like that it matches the 7.62x39 ballistics and feeds from STD mags. Any issues/arguments with the ballistic performance mirror those of x39. Originally Posted by constructor:
Guess the guy that loaded these didn't read the PDF 
Originally Posted by rsilvers:
We figured that out - though shooting thousands of rounds. We started with 60,000 rounds and most of that is gone. The OAL of the shipping ammo is shorter than in that photo and set up so that the ammo is not cocked off center by the rib in a USGI magazine. In the 'owner's manual' (downloadable form the website) I list the recommended OAL for a number of popular bullets. None of them are over 2.1 inches OAL. My concern is that when ammo companies start to load ammo they will make mistakes of that kind and it will cause user frustration. That is why I did not keep that knowledge a secret and put it in the documents. I want the cartridge to be a success, and part of that is heading off such problems. |
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pavlovwolf
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Posted: 4/22/2012 9:27:58 AM
Originally Posted By 10milg29:
I just made the same decision. I went with 300 Blackout. I did so on the basis that I would be at the mercy of the industry with 6.8. It could die out at any time. 300 blackout will always be around, as I have the reloading dies and .223 brass will be around for many years to come. 6.8, while ballistic ally superior, is dependent on too many proprietary components. 300 blackout will do just fine for hunting. 6.8 isn't going anywhere but getting better. Tula will be out with steel cased ammo in early 2013. Federal just contracted to load 150 million rounds a year. PMC is coming out with their load soon as well. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 10:22:05 AM
Plinking? 5.56 there, the .300 IMO isn't a plinker with $11-12 a box ammo. If you reload, that might sway you towards the .300. I reload 6.8 so no problem for me. Cheap factory loaded 6.8 will be here next year.
Hunting? I see a post where the .300 can equal the 6.8 out to 400yds. I want some of what he is smoking,  must be part of Roberts skewed test results. When 350fps and 400ft lbs of energy make the difference, that isn't close to equal. The 6.8 has more power, at any range, with any barrel, plain and simple.
Home defense? Hard choice there. A .300 set up with a 8" bbl shooting subs with a can would be better on the ears. However, when my life is in danger, my ears can wait. The 6.8BSP is a subsonic and works well also. The way I see it is a 69-75gr. 5.56 is very close to the 110gr .300 loads in performance, not enough difference there for me when 5.56 is cheap. Not to say the .300 has no job. I believe it does great for what it was designed for, subsonic use. It makes a good deer gun out to 100-150yds when using supersonic loads. The way I see it is I'm not going to take a shot on a animal at or past that with my AK, sure as hell not with a .300. I believe dispatching a animal the fastest makes the hunt. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 10:25:33 AM
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
6.8 isn't going anywhere but getting better. Tula will be out with steel cased ammo in early 2013. Federal just contracted to load 150 million rounds a year. PMC is coming out with their load soon as well. +1 on that. The 6.8 has really set its feet in since H, Tim, SSA and several others have taken it under their wing. Something that freedom group failed at. In the next coming months, the 6.8 will rise even more. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 10:31:03 AM
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 10:31:31 AM by 346ci]
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
If you want a rifle with no special parts other than the barrel, is great at home defense, is a cheaper plinker and can hunt anything the 6.8 can out to 300 yards then the 300BLK would be less costly and work perfect for what you are asking. Show me .300 kills on anything past 175yds, much less 300yds. Also since I know one of you are going to post the infamous 300yd gel test pic, let me know what the velocity and energy is at that distances. For some reason those numbers are missing in the pic.  |
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pavlovwolf
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Posted: 4/22/2012 10:48:22 AM
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 10:50:23 AM by pavlovwolf]
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
If you want a rifle with no special parts other than the barrel, is great at home defense, is a cheaper plinker and can hunt anything the 6.8 can out to 300 yards then the 300BLK would be less costly and work perfect for what you are asking. Show me .300 kills on anything past 175yds, much less 300yds. Also since I know one of you are going to post the infamous 300yd gel test pic, let me know what the velocity and energy is at that distances. For some reason those numbers are missing in the pic. That data is from ten feet from the muzzle, with the projectile still traveling at over 2100fps on impact. Look at the image on the bottom where it says 100 yards, The velocity from a 16" barrel from their website is 2350fps at the muzzle, so at 100 yards it would be at 2070fps, right where the test above is.. At 300 yards the velocity would be 1574fps, so you will not get the expansion or the penetration you are seeing in those tests. The energy for that round at 300 yards is 606ft/lbs, not even close to double the 400ft/lbs average of the .45acp muzzle energy, and 100 ft/lbs less than the 700-750ft/lbs of a .357 magnum. So please tell me who is disseminating false or misleading information. It is not me. As for game it can't take down, or is very ill advised to attempt to take it down at 300 yards? Every bullet maker, and ethical hunter will tell you exactly what I and several others have told you as to necessary requirements of speed and energy for even a modern correctly constructed bullet to perform in the manner it was intended to in order to bring down game such as deer and larger animals without a major possibility of causing undue pain and suffering to the animal, or losing the animal altogether, The .300 BLK meets neither of those criteria at 300 yards, and is in fact, borderline at 200 yards. Like I said earlier. Yes, it will kill game at that distance, but it is not going to be consistent enough to assure that the animal is taken humanely. You bring up shot placement, as if that has any bearing on this discussion. I am assuming a well placed shot with either round, so that has no place here. ************************** There is your answer 346. From Barnes own page. TRAJECTORY, inches Muzzle 100 yds 200 yds 300 yds 400 yds -1.5″ 0 -6.7″ -24.0″ -55.5″ VELOCITY, fps Muzzle 100 yds 200 yds 300 yds 400 yds 2350 2070 -1810 -1574 -1369 ENERGY, ft lbs Muzzle 100 yds 200 yds 300 yds 400 yds 1349 1046 -800 -606 458 |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 11:09:28 AM
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 11:10:04 AM by 10milg29]
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
If you want a rifle with no special parts other than the barrel, is great at home defense, is a cheaper plinker and can hunt anything the 6.8 can out to 300 yards then the 300BLK would be less costly and work perfect for what you are asking. Show me .300 kills on anything past 175yds, much less 300yds. Also since I know one of you are going to post the infamous 300yd gel test pic, let me know what the velocity and energy is at that distances. For some reason those numbers are missing in the pic. If I am going to shoot at longer ranges, my AR10 comes out. Forget the 6.8 or the .300! |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 11:16:16 AM
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
If you want a rifle with no special parts other than the barrel, is great at home defense, is a cheaper plinker and can hunt anything the 6.8 can out to 300 yards then the 300BLK would be less costly and work perfect for what you are asking. Show me .300 kills on anything past 175yds, much less 300yds. Also since I know one of you are going to post the infamous 300yd gel test pic, let me know what the velocity and energy is at that distances. For some reason those numbers are missing in the pic. That data is from ten feet from the muzzle, with the projectile still traveling at over 2100fps on impact. Look at the image on the bottom where it says 100 yards, The velocity from a 16" barrel from their website is 2350fps at the muzzle, so at 100 yards it would be at 2070fps, right where the test above is.. At 300 yards the velocity would be 1574fps, so you will not get the expansion or the penetration you are seeing in those tests. The energy for that round at 300 yards is 606ft/lbs, not even close to double the 400ft/lbs average of the .45acp muzzle energy, and 100 ft/lbs less than the 700-750ft/lbs of a .357 magnum. So please tell me who is disseminating false or misleading information. It is not me. As for game it can't take down, or is very ill advised to attempt to take it down at 300 yards? Every bullet maker, and ethical hunter will tell you exactly what I and several others have told you as to necessary requirements of speed and energy for even a modern correctly constructed bullet to perform in the manner it was intended to in order to bring down game such as deer and larger animals without a major possibility of causing undue pain and suffering to the animal, or losing the animal altogether, The .300 BLK meets neither of those criteria at 300 yards, and is in fact, borderline at 200 yards. Like I said earlier. Yes, it will kill game at that distance, but it is not going to be consistent enough to assure that the animal is taken humanely. You bring up shot placement, as if that has any bearing on this discussion. I am assuming a well placed shot with either round, so that has no place here. ************************** There is your answer 346. From Barnes own page. TRAJECTORY, inches Muzzle 100 yds 200 yds 300 yds 400 yds -1.5″ 0 -6.7″ -24.0″ -55.5″ VELOCITY, fps Muzzle 100 yds 200 yds 300 yds 400 yds 2350 2070 -1810 -1574 -1369 ENERGY, ft lbs Muzzle 100 yds 200 yds 300 yds 400 yds 1349 1046 -800 -606 458 Thanks Pav, I'm waiting on Robert to answer the same question on my hometown forum. Looks like he got caught with his skewed data once again. 606ft lbs of energy, lol.
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Posted: 4/22/2012 11:20:06 AM
Call the 300 Blk what it is, a close(r) range platorm, perfect for busting through the Alabama woods hunting nice sized hogs. I think people that buy the blackout acknowledge and embrace this fact.
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cchurchi
Burning gas and gunpowder since 1977
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Posted: 4/22/2012 11:20:22 AM
I guess start with the 300. It's not like it would be hard to sell it off if you decide you don't like it. Plus, as mentioned many times before, all you need is a barrel. Your 5.56 mags and bolts are compatible with 300.
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Posted: 4/22/2012 11:26:20 AM
Originally Posted By 10milg29:
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
If you want a rifle with no special parts other than the barrel, is great at home defense, is a cheaper plinker and can hunt anything the 6.8 can out to 300 yards then the 300BLK would be less costly and work perfect for what you are asking. Show me .300 kills on anything past 175yds, much less 300yds. Also since I know one of you are going to post the infamous 300yd gel test pic, let me know what the velocity and energy is at that distances. For some reason those numbers are missing in the pic. If I am going to shoot at longer ranges, my AR10 comes out. Forget the 6.8 or the .300! I will agree, however, if my 6.8 is the only smoke pole I have with me, I see it having no problem taking a deer at that distance. A few of our stands are like that, the corn might be 100yds away but the shooting lane goes 300-400yds. If I have my heart set on going to one of these stands that day, I will take the 10PC in .308. |
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Derek45
Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
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Posted: 4/22/2012 11:36:08 AM
I've been running 6.8 SPEC II for years It's a wonderful thing Mucho thought and design went into the 6.8 300 has a rainbow trajectory |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 11:41:48 AM
Originally Posted By cchurchi:
I guess start with the 300. It's not like it would be hard to sell it off if you decide you don't like it. Plus, as mentioned many times before, all you need is a barrel. Your 5.56 mags and bolts are compatible with 300. Why short yourself to begin with? Just because your mags and bolts work? You are going to swap bolts each time you swap from 5.56 to the .300? |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 12:07:43 PM
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 12:08:10 PM by 10milg29]
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By cchurchi:
I guess start with the 300. It's not like it would be hard to sell it off if you decide you don't like it. Plus, as mentioned many times before, all you need is a barrel. Your 5.56 mags and bolts are compatible with 300. Why short yourself to begin with? Just because your mags and bolts work? You are going to swap bolts each time you swap from 5.56 to the .300? Ok, then why short yourself with the 6.8 and not get an AR10? Let's not get in a d$#@ measuring contest here... |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 12:10:32 PM
Originally Posted By 10milg29:
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By cchurchi:
I guess start with the 300. It's not like it would be hard to sell it off if you decide you don't like it. Plus, as mentioned many times before, all you need is a barrel. Your 5.56 mags and bolts are compatible with 300. Why short yourself to begin with? Just because your mags and bolts work? You are going to swap bolts each time you swap from 5.56 to the .300? Ok, then why short yourself with the 6.8 and not get an AR10? Let's not get in a d$#@ measuring contest here... No pissing match, just wondering why go with the less powerful .300. I don't care for a heavy AR10 either. |
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Posted: 4/22/2012 12:15:35 PM
That cracks me up...if you say an AR10 carbine is too heavy, you might want to start hitting the gym at least once a month.
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Scott_R
I don't need no stinkin' title.
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Posted: 4/22/2012 12:18:53 PM
I don't have either, but am considering both of these.
I would think if you want suppressed subsonic short range, go with 300Blk.
Hunting over a couple hundred yards, 6.8SPC.
I think the 300Blk would be a really fun toy, but I like shooting at distances.
I think I need both.
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Posted: 4/22/2012 12:20:48 PM
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 12:28:55 PM by WVHunter1s1k]
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
If you want a rifle with no special parts other than the barrel, is great at home defense, is a cheaper plinker and can hunt anything the 6.8 can out to 300 yards then the 300BLK would be less costly and work perfect for what you are asking. Show me .300 kills on anything past 175yds, much less 300yds. Also since I know one of you are going to post the infamous 300yd gel test pic, let me know what the velocity and energy is at that distances. For some reason those numbers are missing in the pic. That data is from ten feet from the muzzle, with the projectile still traveling at over 2100fps on impact. Look at the image on the bottom where it says 100 yards, The velocity from a 16" barrel from their website is 2350fps at the muzzle, so at 100 yards it would be at 2070fps, right where the test above is.. At 300 yards the velocity would be 1574fps, so you will not get the expansion or the penetration you are seeing in those tests. The energy for that round at 300 yards is 606ft/lbs, not even close to double the 400ft/lbs average of the .45acp muzzle energy, and 100 ft/lbs less than the 700-750ft/lbs of a .357 magnum. So please tell me who is disseminating false or misleading information. It is not me. As for game it can't take down, or is very ill advised to attempt to take it down at 300 yards? Every bullet maker, and ethical hunter will tell you exactly what I and several others have told you as to necessary requirements of speed and energy for even a modern correctly constructed bullet to perform in the manner it was intended to in order to bring down game such as deer and larger animals without a major possibility of causing undue pain and suffering to the animal, or losing the animal altogether, The .300 BLK meets neither of those criteria at 300 yards, and is in fact, borderline at 200 yards. Like I said earlier. Yes, it will kill game at that distance, but it is not going to be consistent enough to assure that the animal is taken humanely. You bring up shot placement, as if that has any bearing on this discussion. I am assuming a well placed shot with either round, so that has no place here. ************************** There is your answer 346. From Barnes own page. TRAJECTORY, inches Muzzle 100 yds 200 yds 300 yds 400 yds -1.5″ 0 -6.7″ -24.0″ -55.5″ VELOCITY, fps Muzzle 100 yds 200 yds 300 yds 400 yds 2350 2070 -1810 -1574 -1369 ENERGY, ft lbs Muzzle 100 yds 200 yds 300 yds 400 yds 1349 1046 -800 -606 458 Thanks Pav, I'm waiting on Robert to answer the same question on my hometown forum. Looks like he got caught with his skewed data once again. 606ft lbs of energy, lol.
Don't forget; The 6.8's 110 bullet starts out the muzzle of a 16" at 2700fps/1780ft/lb (Factory ammo). Oh, if you cut the petals deep enough(inside)[Barnes is Freedom Group] you can get it to expand at 1500. It's been around for almost 10 years. It's not an overhyped flash in the pan. |
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