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Link Posted: 4/20/2012 10:53:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/20/2012 10:53:51 AM EST by sywagon]
It was a 120 gr. load referring to powder. The ball is 182 gr. Sorry for the confusion, but the energy was correct and it contradicts your point.

This is supposed to be a traditional load.

www.namlhunt.com/traditionalmldata1.html
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc111/mycologist/25a38adc.jpg
Link Posted: 4/20/2012 11:52:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By makintrax73:
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
And comparing modern cartridges to 400 year old weapons is just a tad disingenuous if you ask me....


Look up the ballistics. Patched round ball from a 45 muzzleloader @50 yards is directly comparable to 300 BLK @300.

We are talking about similar weight projectiles, moving at similar speeds, and with expansion of the 300 a similar sized permanent wound channel.

So my question remains: Do the same people who said 300 BLK @ 300 is unsportsmanlike also want to chime in and say muzzleloader hunting @ 50 is unsportsmanlike?



What was the equivalent of the 300 AAC back then at 50 yards? Answer, nothing.

Disingenuous....

Next logical question?

Link Posted: 4/20/2012 12:25:12 PM EST
I saw a friend shoot a deer with an arrow. It was running off so Glen ran it down and stabbed it in the neck... Seemed just as effective as anything.
Anyone have a sling shot story? How about a brick? Spear?
I did hear a guy a hunting camp about 30 years ago say a 7mm mag was the smalllest thing that should be used on deer cause he seen a bunch rund off from a 30-06. He reckoned a 300 mag would be better.
I had a 30-30 when I was a kid. Don't like big slow bullets, nothing slower than 30-30 velocities for sure.
I've seen deer shot in the lungs from a 30-30 run hundreds of yards also seen a big muley take 3 steps after being shot in the lungs with a 55gr Nosler.
Shot placement counts, speed kills...IME It is all personal choice, I choose the faster one.
Link Posted: 4/20/2012 12:30:29 PM EST
556. standardization is a wonderful thing.
Link Posted: 4/20/2012 2:34:23 PM EST
Muzzleloaders and muskets? LOL
Link Posted: 4/20/2012 2:36:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/20/2012 2:36:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By puskrat:
556. standardization is a wonderful thing.


The 5.56 is a good player when the right bullets are picked. I've seen deer shot with a Ranger 64gr that went down quick, after gutting, it was bad.
Link Posted: 4/20/2012 4:33:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
Originally Posted By makintrax73:
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
And comparing modern cartridges to 400 year old weapons is just a tad disingenuous if you ask me....

Look up the ballistics. Patched round ball from a 45 muzzleloader @50 yards is directly comparable to 300 BLK @300.

We are talking about similar weight projectiles, moving at similar speeds, and with expansion of the 300 a similar sized permanent wound channel.

So my question remains: Do the same people who said 300 BLK @ 300 is unsportsmanlike also want to chime in and say muzzleloader hunting @ 50 is unsportsmanlike?

What was the equivalent of the 300 AAC back then at 50 yards? Answer, nothing.

Disingenuous....

Uh, perhaps you're not aware, but some people today hunt with blackpowder muzzleloaders.
Link Posted: 4/20/2012 5:10:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/20/2012 5:11:57 PM EST by stanc]
Originally Posted By Operator42:
I think our troops need a new round, fingers are crossed its a middle ground between the 6.8 and the 308.

That would be 7.35 Carcano, right?
I think both the 6.8 and 6.5 don't offer enough for the military...

I sorta agree. IMO, both have significant drawbacks.
...although the 6.8 has lots of buzz flying around.

Really? Where? I saw some interesting threads recently on a few different forums, but suddenly they all got censored, deleted and/or locked, and forum members were prohibited from further discussing the subject.

Makes me wonder if Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith have been at work...

Link Posted: 4/20/2012 6:56:21 PM EST
That's the buzz I've seen, talk of the oil rich Countries buying rifles, and ammo by federal. What ever the buzz is about, I don't think it will be bad news.
Link Posted: 4/20/2012 11:31:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2012 1:13:19 AM EST by Recoil737]
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Ok, please enlighten us on what the 300BLK cannot due that the 6.8 can out to 300 yards?


Please read the 7-8 posts above this one, you should find your answer pretty easy. It has to do with velocity and energy.

I'm not a .300 hater, I think it is a decent choice for 100yd shots on deer and the like. A member of our hunting club uses a SKS and kills 'em just like a .30-06 does in close ranges. I know the .300 preforms best when shooting subs in a SBR. How ever much of the koolaid you drink, it isn't a 300yd gun. I see that Barnes 300yd picture posted by Robert all over the net and just think .


Really only 100 yards and after that it just turns into an nerf round that would not hurt a bunny and you say you don't put out any misinformation or hate on the 300BLK. Even the other die hard 6.8 people wouldn't put something as asinine as saying that the 300BLK is only good out to 100 yards.

Based on your misinformation your trying to spread that the 300BLK is only capable of taking "deer and the like" to 100 yards. Taking the energy and velocity the 300BLK has at 100 yards and comparing it to where the 6.8 has the same energy and velocity would make the 6.8 only good to 205 yards to "take deer and the like". I thought the 6.8 would do better than that?

By extension you are also saying that the AK-47 and all the rifles that use the 7.62X39 are only good out to 100 yards. Never mind the AK has killed more people in the last 50 years than any other round out there. A lot of them being much further than your so called "100" yard limit and the 300BLK has better ballistics than the 7.62X39 especially the further you go out with it.

You still didn't get answer my question of what the 6.8 can do within 300yards that the 300BLK won't? I will give you a hint. Nothing! the 300BLK will put down any animal/creature that the the 6.8 can inside 300 yards.
Link Posted: 4/20/2012 11:47:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
Originally Posted By buffetdestroyer:
How many people regularly shoot game animals at 300+ yards with any caliber? Out of those, how many shoot big game over 300 yards as their primary purpose for their Intermediate Cartridge standard frame AR's? Should we do a poll?

A lot of AR owners recreationally punch holes in paper and other non-living targets, shoot in competitions and/or keep their rifles as an emergency defensive tool as the rifle's primary purpose. If you are "defensively" shooting a person at 300+ yards, you are going to have a lot of legal issues unless you have a badge or military ID. Additionally the purpose of the AR and other Intermediate Round rifles is to have a semi-automatic (or fully automatic) with capacity of 10 rounds or more that can be rapidly fired and reloaded. So if you train "1 shot - 1 kill" at very long distances on individual targets, then a precision barreled bolt action in a magnum caliber will be the more appropriate tool for that style of defensive shooting.

Do you need to have 25+ round rapid fire capability to shoot a deer ethically? Can you bring another platform that is lightweight and significantly higher powered than even the 6.8 or 6.5 to ensure that you are being fair and ethical to the animal? Is shooting a deer with an arrow that has the same kinetic energy as a small pistol or rimfire caliber ethical or do I need to exceed some cool sounding kinetic energy number that I read on a forum to be effective?

Being ethical is not just a caliber or weapon consideration, but a judgement call on the shooter's ability, the environment the animal is in (foliage, terrain etc.) , and the position of the animal relative to the hunter. Would I feel confident that with a 110 TTSX Black Tipped Barnes bullet and a steady rested shot that I could ethically kill an unobstructed stationary broadside facing deer (DRT) at 300 yards with a 300 BLK? Yes.


To correct a statement above in this thread, I have personally shot subsonics out past 250 yards and hit clay pigeons on a 1-shot/1-hit ratio when they were properly ranged. You need to understand your rifle, ballistics and have a BDC and a rangefinder or other way to determine distances in 25 yard increments or better. Subsonic bullets for the 300 BLK have excellent ballistic coefficients that maintain velocity exceptionally well. Also since they don't destabilize when they go transonic (because they never went over the sound barrier), the only limiting factor is drop and the shooter's ability to compensate for it. Saying it isn't possible is ignorant and for people that shoot long distance, it is an excellent training tool since you don't need ranges beyond 300 yards.



The 6.8 bullets like the 120 SST and others specific for the 6.8 didn't arrive on the market overnight. Last I heard, 6.8 fans are still waiting on new magazines and cheap ammo. The 6.8 had been on the market for over 5 years when some of these magic 6.8 were released. If you try and use traditional 140+ grain .270 bullets in your 6.8, you probably won't have the excellent terminal ballistics on game either. Discrediting a caliber because you refuse to compare bullets specific or relevant to the platform is asinine and short-sighted. The Speer 125 TNT and Hornady 110 V-Max have excellent lower velocity performance because they don't use overly thick or bonded jackets designed to prevent expansion in thick skinned game. The Barnes 110 TTSX for the BLK are exceptional and more variety will be following in the next few years.


Read my post again without the tears in your eyes.

I said most shooters can't accurately estimate range. You can, so good for you. However, two equally skilled shooters , one with the BLK, and one with a 6.8, the 6.8 wins, every time. More power on target, every time, at every distance. Why limit yourself to less than 300 yards?

Numbers don't lie. All of your pointless meanderings about when a cartridge hit the market means nothing. It is here now, and that is all that counts.


The real question is if you want to go long why limit yourself to 400 yards? Get a .308 or a 6.5 and reach for a thousand. And if power is the name of the game then get a .50 cal otherwise everything else is a compromise.

This is where your argument is flawed. Just because the 6.8 has more power than the 300BLK doesn't make the 300BLK any less potent as dead is dead. Just like shooting a .50 cal along side the 6.8 doesn't make the 6.8 any less potent inside its useful range.

But if you want a round that only requires a barrel change, uses standard mags, uses standard bolts, has cheap ammo, has cheap brass, can uses mil surplus bullets, can shoot subsonic as easily as supersonic, is SAAMI approved, has been widely adopted by the industry in less than two years and will put down anything the 6.8 can inside of 300 yards then the 300BLK is the obvious choice for intermediate round.
Link Posted: 4/21/2012 12:39:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Ok, please enlighten us on what the 300BLK cannot due that the 6.8 can out to 300 yards?


Please read the 7-8 posts above this one, you should find your answer pretty easy. It has to do with velocity and energy.

I'm not a .300 hater, I think it is a decent choice for 100yd shots on deer and the like. A member of our hunting club uses a SKS and kills 'em just like a .30-06 does in close ranges. I know the .300 preforms best when shooting subs in a SBR. How ever much of the koolaid you drink, it isn't a 300yd gun. I see that Barnes 300yd picture posted by Robert all over the net and just think .


Really only 100 yards and after that it just turns into an nerf round that would not hurt a bunny and you say you don't put out any misinformation or hate on the 300BLK. Even the other die hard 6.8 people wouldn't put something as asinine as saying that the 300BLK is only good out to 100 yards.

By extension you are also saying that the AK-47 and all the rifles that use the 7.62X39 are only good out to 100 yards. Never mind the AK has killed more people in the last 50 years than any other round out there. A lot of them being much further than your so called "100" yard limit and the 300BLK has better ballistics than the 7.62X39 especially the further you go out with it.

You still didn't get answer my question of what the 6.8 can do within 300yards that the 300BLK won't? I will give you a hint. Nothing! the 300BLK will put down any animal/creature that the the 6.8 can inside 300 yards.


Several people have given you the answer. You don't want to look at the facts. You don't like the answer. You would rather bring up muzzle loaders as a straw man argument than face the facts.

There is game that the BLK is not suited to take down at 300 yards. The numbers are there for you. I'm not saying that is won't kill them sometimes, or even lot's of times. What I am saying, is that it will not kill them in a manner that is almost always humane, and prevents loss of meat to the hunter due to the animal running off, and suffering for the animal. It just does not have the power to do it.

You have shown one image of a best of all worlds ballistic get test. A ballistic gel animal does not run off. A ballistic gel animal will stand there and let you repeatedly shoot it until you get a perfect looking recovered bullet that has hit no bone, no muscle or any other real living tissue. A gel creature is only a simulated creature. After witnessing several times how Mr. Silvers has manipulated tests and data to favor his round, I am skeptical of anything that he puts out.

When I see dozens after dozens of bullets from the BLK that have performed in that manner at 300 yards on real, live animals, I will be a believer. We have that evidence from the 6.8, and in a multitude of different bullets pulled from animals, showing it's performance on them at that range.
Link Posted: 4/21/2012 4:00:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
After witnessing several times how Mr. Silvers has manipulated tests and data to favor his round, I am skeptical of anything that he puts out.

When I see dozens after dozens of bullets from the BLK that have performed in that manner at 300 yards on real, live animals, I will be a believer. We have that evidence from the 6.8, and in a multitude of different bullets pulled from animals, showing it's performance on them at that range.


Yup on both of those. Until then, I will sit back and laugh.
Link Posted: 4/21/2012 8:58:07 AM EST
Outside of the WSSM rounds 6.5G or 6.8 SPC for hunting is my pick, but there is no real best AR15 int round defined by some magic meaningful superior performance
across the board.

The platform is just too limited buy COL, powder capacity and blot thrust to get
any really outstanding numbers that make one round stand out.

Some are better at one thing, worse at others.

They are all close IMO until you get up to the WSSM rounds/wildcats, but then you are still limited by COL so
long bullets are still a problem.
Link Posted: 4/21/2012 9:27:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By tammons:
Outside of the WSSM rounds 6.5G or 6.8 SPC for hunting is my pick, but there is no real best AR15 int round defined by some magic meaningful superior performance
across the board.

The platform is just too limited buy COL, powder capacity and blot thrust to get
any really outstanding numbers that make one round stand out.

Some are better at one thing, worse at others.

They are all close IMO until you get up to the WSSM rounds/wildcats, but then you are still limited by COL so
long bullets are still a problem.




Agreed, and well said. The AR-15 Magazine length is the biggest drawback for developing a real high power cartridge, then the limited diameter & strength
of the bolt/bolt face/bolt lugs as well as the limited amount of bolt thrust the AR-15 platform can handle has to be considered when designing a powerfull
wildcat cartridge...
Link Posted: 4/21/2012 9:39:00 AM EST
.300 BLK for the win.
Link Posted: 4/21/2012 9:45:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/21/2012 9:51:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
Originally Posted By makintrax73:
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
And comparing modern cartridges to 400 year old weapons is just a tad disingenuous if you ask me....

Look up the ballistics. Patched round ball from a 45 muzzleloader @50 yards is directly comparable to 300 BLK @300.

We are talking about similar weight projectiles, moving at similar speeds, and with expansion of the 300 a similar sized permanent wound channel.

So my question remains: Do the same people who said 300 BLK @ 300 is unsportsmanlike also want to chime in and say muzzleloader hunting @ 50 is unsportsmanlike?

What was the equivalent of the 300 AAC back then at 50 yards? Answer, nothing.

Disingenuous....

Uh, perhaps you're not aware, but some people today hunt with blackpowder muzzleloaders.



RIF. I don't know of too many black powder AR15s, and since we ARE TALKING about calibers for the AR15, let's stick to the debating facts instead of moronic comments about weapons from centuries ago.

Valid comparison black powder vs. bow and arrow or spear. Invalid comparison black powder vs. AR15.

Next?
Link Posted: 4/21/2012 10:18:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2012 10:19:49 AM EST by tammons]
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By tammons:
Outside of the WSSM rounds 6.5G or 6.8 SPC for hunting is my pick, but there is no real best AR15 int round defined by some magic meaningful superior performance
across the board.

The platform is just too limited buy COL, powder capacity and blot thrust to get
any really outstanding numbers that make one round stand out.

Some are better at one thing, worse at others.

They are all close IMO until you get up to the WSSM rounds/wildcats, but then you are still limited by COL so
long bullets are still a problem.




Agreed, and well said. The AR-15 Magazine length is the biggest drawback for developing a real high power cartridge, then the limited diameter & strength
of the bolt/bolt face/bolt lugs as well as the limited amount of bolt thrust the AR-15 platform can handle has to be considered when designing a powerfull
wildcat cartridge...


It is just beyond me why anybody would argue why their latest AR purchase is the best thing since sliced bread
and better than all others ever.

Pride of ownership just makes people say some really stupid $hit.

All the Ar15 Alt rounds pretty much $uck, especially the 223 based rounds, compared to normal hunting rounds like 30-06, 338 WM, 270 win etc,

I have owned most of the normal alternate caliber AR15 rounds, and one 25 WSSM and all I will say is I think a kick ass
rifle would be a 338 WSSM 20" bbl pushing a 160 gr TTSX at 2850-2900.

As far as the 223 based cartridges - MEH.

They are okay but nothing to write home about. Low recoil is nice though.
Like I said I now have a 25-223 which I feel is a pretty good balance between a bigger
bullet vs Velocity, but its main purpose is a semi auto truck gun for piggie target practice since I have 3k in 223 brass.

Matter of fact a mini 30 might be a better choice for that, IE cheap ammo etc, if you can find one that would shoot tighter than the broad side of a barn.


Link Posted: 4/21/2012 3:40:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By Operator42:
I think our troops need a new round, fingers are crossed its a middle ground between the 6.8 and the 308.

That would be 7.35 Carcano, right?
I think both the 6.8 and 6.5 don't offer enough for the military...

I sorta agree. IMO, both have significant drawbacks.
...although the 6.8 has lots of buzz flying around.

Really? Where? I saw some interesting threads recently on a few different forums, but suddenly they all got censored, deleted and/or locked, and forum members were prohibited from further discussing the subject.

Makes me wonder if Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith have been at work...

http://images.hollywood.com/site/mib.jpg

Ya never know!!
Now, what were we discussing???

Link Posted: 4/22/2012 1:35:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 9:39:21 PM EST by Recoil737]
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Ok, please enlighten us on what the 300BLK cannot due that the 6.8 can out to 300 yards?


Please read the 7-8 posts above this one, you should find your answer pretty easy. It has to do with velocity and energy.

I'm not a .300 hater, I think it is a decent choice for 100yd shots on deer and the like. A member of our hunting club uses a SKS and kills 'em just like a .30-06 does in close ranges. I know the .300 preforms best when shooting subs in a SBR. How ever much of the koolaid you drink, it isn't a 300yd gun. I see that Barnes 300yd picture posted by Robert all over the net and just think .


Really only 100 yards and after that it just turns into an nerf round that would not hurt a bunny and you say you don't put out any misinformation or hate on the 300BLK. Even the other die hard 6.8 people wouldn't put something as asinine as saying that the 300BLK is only good out to 100 yards.

By extension you are also saying that the AK-47 and all the rifles that use the 7.62X39 are only good out to 100 yards. Never mind the AK has killed more people in the last 50 years than any other round out there. A lot of them being much further than your so called "100" yard limit and the 300BLK has better ballistics than the 7.62X39 especially the further you go out with it.

You still didn't get answer my question of what the 6.8 can do within 300yards that the 300BLK won't? I will give you a hint. Nothing! the 300BLK will put down any animal/creature that the the 6.8 can inside 300 yards.


Several people have given you the answer. You don't want to look at the facts. You don't like the answer. You would rather bring up muzzle loaders as a straw man argument than face the facts.


First I never brought up muzzle loaders so please don't include me in that. Second no one has given me an answer other than posting that the 6.8 is more powerful than the 300BLK. That was not the question and wasn't up for debate as anyone that can read a ballistics table knows it is. The question was what can the 6.8 do inside of 300 yards that the 300BLK can't? The answer nothing! The 300BLK can do anything that the 6.8 can do inside of 300 yards. Well within the definition of intermediate round the OP was talking about.

There is game that the BLK is not suited to take down at 300 yards. The numbers are there for you. I'm not saying that is won't kill them sometimes, or even lot's of times. What I am saying, is that it will not kill them in a manner that is almost always humane, and prevents loss of meat to the hunter due to the animal running off, and suffering for the animal. It just does not have the power to do it.


I agree there is a lot of game the 300BLK could not take down at 300 yards like rhino, elephant, hippo, water buffalo, cape buffalo, brown bear. That was never what I said. My comment was with the 110gr VOR-TX bullet the 300BLK is capable of penetrating 20 inches and expanding to over half an inch. With that in mind please let me know what game the 300BLK cannot take down at 300 yards that the 6.8 can?

How can you say with a straight face that the 300BLK doesn't have the power at 300 yard to take down most mid size game? At 300 yards the 300BLK has more power than a 357 magnum at the muzzle, has three times the energy of a 38 special at the muzzle, has twice the power of a 45ACP at the muzzle. The rest of what you said is just misinformation as anyone knows shot placement is key to bring down any animal in a humane manner and any one of those rounds listed above has more than enough power to bring down mid size game.

You have shown one image of a best of all worlds ballistic get test. A ballistic gel animal does not run off. A ballistic gel animal will stand there and let you repeatedly shoot it until you get a perfect looking recovered bullet that has hit no bone, no muscle or any other real living tissue. A gel creature is only a simulated creature. After witnessing several times how Mr. Silvers has manipulated tests and data to favor his round, I am skeptical of anything that he puts out.


Ok what if it wasn't Mr. Silvers that put it out? What if it was a respected bullet manufacture like the link listed below?

Barnes 300BLK ammo descripion

New for 2012 – Barnes is now offering a 110gr TAC-TX bullet that is optimized for the 300 AAC Blackout cartridge. Specially designed profile ensures flawless magazine-length loading in AR rifles. Full (50-caliber) expansion and 20-inch plus penetration at 300 yards (tested in short and standard length barrel rifles) provides terminal performance unmatched by the competition. All-copper construction provides consistent terminal performance through barriers – an excellent choice for hunters and defense initiatives.

As this is a technical forum unless you can refute what a giant in the industry is saying then you can keep your manipulated tests and data conspiracy theory to yourself.

When I see dozens after dozens of bullets from the BLK that have performed in that manner at 300 yards on real, live animals, I will be a believer. We have that evidence from the 6.8, and in a multitude of different bullets pulled from animals, showing it's performance on them at that range.


I don't think we need to convince you how well it does because there are plenty of hunters that have used the 300BLK to take all kind of animals at all kind of ranges and if you had been paying attention a lot of them even posted the bullets they pulled out. Now there may not be as many pictures or pulled bullets as the 6.8. That is because the 300BLK has only been out two years compared to the 6.8 seven plus years and specialty ammo for the 300BLK just hit the market a little over a month ago but even without the Barnes 110gr Black tips the 300BLK has been a proven killer.

Here is a picture of the capabilities of the 300BLK out to 300 yards.


Link Posted: 4/22/2012 1:56:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
After witnessing several times how Mr. Silvers has manipulated tests and data to favor his round, I am skeptical of anything that he puts out.

When I see dozens after dozens of bullets from the BLK that have performed in that manner at 300 yards on real, live animals, I will be a believer. We have that evidence from the 6.8, and in a multitude of different bullets pulled from animals, showing it's performance on them at that range.


Yup on both of those. Until then, I will sit back and laugh.


Yup, Not a hater are you? Look at my post above that shows none of that is true so just keep laughing like someone that has no clue and can't stop the hate.
Link Posted: 4/22/2012 3:47:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 3:51:25 AM EST by pavlovwolf]
Silvers himself stated that it would be good out to 150 yards on deer on the LWRC Forum.


You are looking at the data wrong though sir.

That data is from ten feet from the muzzle, with the projectile still traveling at over 2100fps on impact. Look at the image on the bottom where it says 100 yards,

The velocity from a 16" barrel from their website is 2350fps at the muzzle, so at 100 yards it would be at 2070fps, right where the test above is.. At 300 yards the velocity would be 1574fps, so you will not get the expansion or the penetration you are seeing in those tests.

The energy for that round at 300 yards is 606ft/lbs, not even close to double the 400ft/lbs average of the .45acp muzzle energy, and 100 ft/lbs less than the 700-750ft/lbs of a .357 magnum. So please tell me who is disseminating false or misleading information. It is not me.

As for game it can't take down, or is very ill advised to attempt to take it down at 300 yards? Every bullet maker, and ethical hunter will tell you exactly what I and several others have told you as to necessary requirements of speed and energy for even a modern correctly constructed bullet to perform in the manner it was intended to in order to bring down game such as deer and larger animals without a major possibility of causing undue pain and suffering to the animal, or losing the animal altogether, The .300 BLK meets neither of those criteria at 300 yards, and is in fact, borderline at 200 yards. Like I said earlier. Yes, it will kill game at that distance, but it is not going to be consistent enough to assure that the animal is taken humanely.

You bring up shot placement, as if that has any bearing on this discussion. I am assuming a well placed shot with either round, so that has no place here.




.
Link Posted: 4/22/2012 6:39:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By Recoil737:

Ok what if it wasn't Mr. Silvers that put it out? What if it was a respected bullet manufacture like the link listed below?

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7161/300aacblkbarriersummary.jpg


And there goes the proof of the skewed test results, lol. 300yds you say???

Get a clue Recoil, accept the .300 for what it is.
Link Posted: 4/22/2012 6:49:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 6:51:55 AM EST by krpind]
Link Posted: 4/22/2012 7:06:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By krpind:


We need more info. Maybe I missed it.

BUT I'm almost positive that is a very close range test.

The first pic is bare gel and 20+inches of penetration. The last pic is bare gel at 100 yards and shows appox 1 in less penetration.

There is no way those are 300 yard test shots.

ETA. No I'm seeing that is a claimed 300 yards test.

I don't believe that. What is the actual source of that pic? RSilvers? Can someone ask him to tell us for sure?



We are comparing the pic you have posted to this one:



Robert claims 20" pentration at 300yds but the bullets are deformed the same. Both tests are at 100yds. If that is not the case, I'd have to see the tests for myself or hear it from Barnes. Robert is known for posting skewed data.
Link Posted: 4/22/2012 7:16:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 7:37:19 AM EST by krpind]
Link Posted: 4/22/2012 7:28:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By krpind:
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By krpind:


We need more info. Maybe I missed it.

BUT I'm almost positive that is a very close range test.

The first pic is bare gel and 20+inches of penetration. The last pic is bare gel at 100 yards and shows appox 1 in less penetration.

There is no way those are 300 yard test shots.

ETA. No I'm seeing that is a claimed 300 yards test.

I don't believe that. What is the actual source of that pic? RSilvers? Can someone ask him to tell us for sure?



We are comparing the pic you have posted to this one:

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/files/2012/01/300BLK-300-small-500x336.jpg

Robert claims 20" pentration at 300yds but the bullets are deformed the same. Both tests are at 100yds. If that is not the case, I'd have to see the tests for myself or hear it from Barnes. Robert is known for posting skewed data.


Well you aren't going to get 20+ inches of penetration at 300 yards and 19+ inches at 100 appox 1 inch LESS, with more retained weight at 100 than 300. That just isn't possible I don't think.


You don't have to tell me, I called BS from the start. He was laughed out of one forum for those claims, looks like it didn't help.

Link Posted: 4/22/2012 2:02:11 PM EST
We need Kurt to unleash the 7mm ARk any have Barnes cook up a couple weights of TTSXs that expand down to 1500fps. 2000 ft/lbs at the muzzle
Link Posted: 4/22/2012 9:12:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
Silvers himself stated that it would be good out to 150 yards on deer on the LWRC Forum.


Please provide the quote where he said that it was only good on deer out to 150 yards.


You are looking at the data wrong though sir.

That data is from ten feet from the muzzle, with the projectile still traveling at over 2100fps on impact. Look at the image on the bottom where it says 100 yards,

The velocity from a 16" barrel from their website is 2350fps at the muzzle, so at 100 yards it would be at 2070fps, right where the test above is.. At 300 yards the velocity would be 1574fps, so you will not get the expansion or the penetration you are seeing in those tests.


I cannot make it any clearer. Barnes a highly respected bullet manufacture has stated that it will fully expand at 300 yards:

Barnes stating the 300BLK will fully expand and penetrate 20 inches

"Barnes’ all-copper, polymer-tipped 300 AAC BLK/Whisper 110 grain TAC-TX bullet will be available for sale to handloaders mid-February, 2012 through the Barnes Online Store and Retailers. 300 AAC BLK Barnes VOR-TX Ammunition will be available in April through retailers only.

Specially designed profile ensures flawless magazine-length loading in AR rifles. Full (50-caliber) expansion and 20-inch plus penetration at 300 yards (tested in short and standard length barrel rifles) provides terminal performance unmatched by the competition. All-copper construction provides consistent terminal performance through barriers – an excellent choice for hunters and defense initiatives.

NOTE: Trajectory, Velocity & Energy information updated on 3/21/12 based on a muzzle velocity of 2,350 fps."


Unless you have proof that Barnes is lying than please stop saying it won't expand at 300 yards and penetrate 20 inches.

The energy for that round at 300 yards is 606ft/lbs, not even close to double the 400ft/lbs average of the .45acp muzzle energy, and 100 ft/lbs less than the 700-750ft/lbs of a .357 magnum. So please tell me who is disseminating false or misleading information. It is not me.


Here is a link to the ballistic chart I am using: Hornady ballistic chart

This is the only chart I can find all the calibers listed above in the same chart so they all should be loaded to the SAAMI specifications and give equal data so as not to just try to cherry pick the hotter loads. I even had to use the 110gr for the 300 Whisper on their chart even though the 300BLK can be loaded slightly hotter.

It clearly states that the 300 Whispers 110gr energy at 300yd is 623LB. It also clearly states that the .357 magnum has the energy of 548 to 644 at the muzzle depending on the load. The .45 ACP is 369 at the muzzle.

Are telling me that shooting a mid size animal with a .357 magnum point blank is not enough energy to put it down? Or with nearly twice the energy of a point blank shot with a .45ACP that it would walk away wounded?

As for game it can't take down, or is very ill advised to attempt to take it down at 300 yards? Every bullet maker, and ethical hunter will tell you exactly what I and several others have told you as to necessary requirements of speed and energy for even a modern correctly constructed bullet to perform in the manner it was intended to in order to bring down game such as deer and larger animals without a major possibility of causing undue pain and suffering to the animal, or losing the animal altogether, The .300 BLK meets neither of those criteria at 300 yards, and is in fact, borderline at 200 yards. Like I said earlier. Yes, it will kill game at that distance, but it is not going to be consistent enough to assure that the animal is taken humanely.


Prove it. Back it up with more substance than innuendo. Who said it is very "ill advised"? You?

Who are every bullet manufacture? Who are these ethical hunters that will tell me exactly how the 110gr Barnes black tip bullet will not work out to 300 yards without the "major possibility of causing undue pain and suffering"?

All you are putting out is dribble backed up by nothing.

You bring up shot placement, as if that has any bearing on this discussion. I am assuming a well placed shot with either round, so that has no place here.


I brought up shot placement because I truly couldn't believe that someone in their right mind would actually say that a bullet traveling at 1600fps with the energy of 623 on a bullet that will expand to over .5 inches isn't enough to take down a mid size animal with a well placed shot. I was hoping that you just meant it was with a bad shot. I guess I was wrong.

You also understand that if I used your calculations for what is an "ethical kill" that it would limit your 6.8 to an effective range of around 300yds for hunting. I don't think your 6.8 buddies are willing to say that this is all the range that the 6.8 is capable of.
Link Posted: 4/22/2012 9:29:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:

Ok what if it wasn't Mr. Silvers that put it out? What if it was a respected bullet manufacture like the link listed below?

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7161/300aacblkbarriersummary.jpg


And there goes the proof of the skewed test results, lol. 300yds you say???

Get a clue Recoil, accept the .300 for what it is.


What .300 are you talking about? The 300 Win Mag? The 300 RCM? The 300 H&H Mag? The 300 Weatherby Mag? The 300 Savage?

It seem I can accept it a lot better than you since you can't even call it by its proper name and got slapped down by the moderator for calling it the 300WTF you still don't have a clue so let me help. The proper names for you to troll/hate on are: 300BLK, 300 AAC Blackout or just 300 Blackout. Got it?

I will post the link one more time for you to look at and if you can't add anything to the conversation or disprove what a Giant in the bullet manufacturing world has flat out stated then just stop spewing your hate and misinformation:

Link showing what 346ci cannot accept and calls skewed results from a Major Bullet manufacture

NEW! 300 AAC Blackout Barnes Products

February 9, 2012 at 11:30 am in Alerts, Bullets
Barnes’ all-copper, polymer-tipped 300 AAC BLK/Whisper 110 grain TAC-TX bullet will be available for sale to handloaders mid-February, 2012 through the Barnes Online Store and Retailers. 300 AAC BLK Barnes VOR-TX Ammunition will be available in April through retailers only.

Specially designed profile ensures flawless magazine-length loading in AR rifles. Full (50-caliber) expansion and 20-inch plus penetration at 300 yards (tested in short and standard length barrel rifles) provides terminal performance unmatched by the competition. All-copper construction provides consistent terminal performance through barriers – an excellent choice for hunters and defense initiatives.

NOTE: Trajectory, Velocity & Energy information updated on 3/21/12 based on a muzzle velocity of 2,350 fps.

Link Posted: 4/22/2012 9:37:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 9:42:33 PM EST by Recoil737]
Originally Posted By krpind:


We need more info. Maybe I missed it.

BUT I'm almost positive that is a very close range test.

The first pic is bare gel and 20+inches of penetration. The last pic is bare gel at 100 yards and shows appox 1 in less penetration.

There is no way those are 300 yard test shots.

ETA. No I'm seeing that is a claimed 300 yards test.

I don't believe that. What is the actual source of that pic? RSilvers? Can someone ask him to tell us for sure?



I apologize as I shouldn't have put up that picture in the same message as the one where I was talking about the 300BLK capabilities out to 300 yards. I did not mean to relate the two but I can see how that could easily be confusing. I will edit it out of my post and put in the one that 346ci was kind enough to show a picture that was taken of the 110gr black tip bullet at 300 yards with 20 inches of penetration.

You are right. All but one of the pictures are showing some yardage that is undefined going through different material and what I found neat was how well the bullets I posted about are made.
Link Posted: 4/22/2012 9:57:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 10:08:11 PM EST by Recoil737]
Originally Posted By krpind:
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By krpind:


We need more info. Maybe I missed it.

BUT I'm almost positive that is a very close range test.

The first pic is bare gel and 20+inches of penetration. The last pic is bare gel at 100 yards and shows appox 1 in less penetration.

There is no way those are 300 yard test shots.

ETA. No I'm seeing that is a claimed 300 yards test.

I don't believe that. What is the actual source of that pic? RSilvers? Can someone ask him to tell us for sure?



We are comparing the pic you have posted to this one:

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/files/2012/01/300BLK-300-small-500x336.jpg

Robert claims 20" pentration at 300yds but the bullets are deformed the same. Both tests are at 100yds. If that is not the case, I'd have to see the tests for myself or hear it from Barnes. Robert is known for posting skewed data.


Well you aren't going to get 20+ inches of penetration at 300 yards and 19+ inches at 100, appox 1 inch LESS, with more retained weight at 100 than 300. That just isn't possible I don't think.


Actually, you can get different results from different ranges. With different loads, longer barrels and bullet composition you can actually get different results. Take the 55gr .223 grain vmax for example at closer ranges it is moving faster and will dump all of its energy into the target faster as it tends to explode on impact. As the range moves further away it will actually penetrate deeper and retain more of its weight because with less speed come less violent bullet expansion. I don't know if the 110gr black tip works the same way but to me that would make sense. As the bullet get farther down range the speed drops and it takes the 110gr black tip longer to expand. Allowing it to penetrate deeper and retaining more of its weight.

I have not tested it in gel out to 300 yards so I will have to defer to those that have. The creator of the 300BLK says it does and post pictures to prove it and even more importantly a third party major bullet manufacture has said that the 300BLK 110gr black tips will expand to .5 inches and penetrate 20 inches. I will take the words of those two over internet commandos that have never even fired the 300BLK.

Link Posted: 4/22/2012 10:02:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2012 10:04:28 PM EST by Recoil737]
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By krpind:


We need more info. Maybe I missed it.

BUT I'm almost positive that is a very close range test.

The first pic is bare gel and 20+inches of penetration. The last pic is bare gel at 100 yards and shows appox 1 in less penetration.

There is no way those are 300 yard test shots.

ETA. No I'm seeing that is a claimed 300 yards test.

I don't believe that. What is the actual source of that pic? RSilvers? Can someone ask him to tell us for sure?



We are comparing the pic you have posted to this one:

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/files/2012/01/300BLK-300-small-500x336.jpg

Robert claims 20" pentration at 300yds but the bullets are deformed the same. Both tests are at 100yds. If that is not the case, I'd have to see the tests for myself or hear it from Barnes. Robert is known for posting skewed data.


Maybe you should have read my post or followed the links before telling me to get a clue as here it is again from Barnes just like you asked:

Barnes telling 346ci that the 110gr black tip will penetrate 20" and expand to .5 inches at 300 yards.

Barnes’ all-copper, polymer-tipped 300 AAC BLK/Whisper 110 grain TAC-TX bullet will be available for sale to handloaders mid-February, 2012 through the Barnes Online Store and Retailers. 300 AAC BLK Barnes VOR-TX Ammunition will be available in April through retailers only.

Specially designed profile ensures flawless magazine-length loading in AR rifles. Full (50-caliber) expansion and 20-inch plus penetration at 300 yards (tested in short and standard length barrel rifles) provides terminal performance unmatched by the competition. All-copper construction provides consistent terminal performance through barriers – an excellent choice for hunters and defense initiatives.
Link Posted: 4/23/2012 6:31:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/23/2012 8:02:48 AM EST by elkbow]
Originally Posted By buffetdestroyer:
How many people regularly shoot game animals at 300+ yards with any caliber? Out of those, how many shoot big game over 300 yards as their primary purpose for their Intermediate Cartridge standard frame AR's? Should we do a poll?


Last I heard, 6.8 fans are still waiting on new magazines and cheap ammo. The 6.8 had been on the market for over 5 years when some of these magic 6.8 were released.


If you lived here in New Mexico, you would find that when hunting antelope, deer, auodad, etc., that many of your shots will be over 300+ yards, why would anyone buy a .300 BLK unless you planned on shooting it subsonic much of the time.

As for magazines, easy to find, and I can even make regular 5.56 function perfectly with a bit of tweeking. Also, i can interchange my mags for my 6.8 and 6.5 Grendel/.264 LBC, found out by accident when i forgot my G mags at the range and had 6.8 mags with me, worked fine....so tried them all, they all worked, not sure how many types of mags will interchange, but mine all work

Link Posted: 4/23/2012 1:01:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:

Ok what if it wasn't Mr. Silvers that put it out? What if it was a respected bullet manufacture like the link listed below?

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7161/300aacblkbarriersummary.jpg


And there goes the proof of the skewed test results, lol. 300yds you say???

Get a clue Recoil, accept the .300 for what it is.


What .300 are you talking about? The 300 Win Mag? The 300 RCM? The 300 H&H Mag? The 300 Weatherby Mag? The 300 Savage?

It seem I can accept it a lot better than you since you can't even call it by its proper name and got slapped down by the moderator for calling it the 300WTF you still don't have a clue so let me help. The proper names for you to troll/hate on are: 300BLK, 300 AAC Blackout or just 300 Blackout. Got it?

I will post the link one more time for you to look at and if you can't add anything to the conversation or disprove what a Giant in the bullet manufacturing world has flat out stated then just stop spewing your hate and misinformation:

Link showing what 346ci cannot accept and calls skewed results from a Major Bullet manufacture

NEW! 300 AAC Blackout Barnes Products

February 9, 2012 at 11:30 am in Alerts, Bullets
Barnes’ all-copper, polymer-tipped 300 AAC BLK/Whisper 110 grain TAC-TX bullet will be available for sale to handloaders mid-February, 2012 through the Barnes Online Store and Retailers. 300 AAC BLK Barnes VOR-TX Ammunition will be available in April through retailers only.

Specially designed profile ensures flawless magazine-length loading in AR rifles. Full (50-caliber) expansion and 20-inch plus penetration at 300 yards (tested in short and standard length barrel rifles) provides terminal performance unmatched by the competition. All-copper construction provides consistent terminal performance through barriers – an excellent choice for hunters and defense initiatives.

NOTE: Trajectory, Velocity & Energy information updated on 3/21/12 based on a muzzle velocity of 2,350 fps.



Yup, I got the warning. Snitching is something we did in kindergarten.

As for the rest Robert pretty much said the .300bo was not good for 300yd shots on deer on another forum, as I have been saying for a while. Also, can I call it the .300bo? If I have your permission, that seems fair. It reminds me of barack obama so I think it fits well.
Link Posted: 4/23/2012 1:32:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/23/2012 2:10:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/23/2012 2:12:26 PM EST by 346ci]
Originally Posted By krpind:
Knock off the trolling.

I'm not sure what the issue is, but a lot of people are coming here looking for accurate info. That info should be as unbiased as possible. Certainly we all have our "favorites". Having a favorite and attacking different caliber are two totally different things. Quit making comments that are an attempt to illicit an negative response or worse, confusing to inexperienced ARFCOMMERS who are lurking looking for info on different builds.

It is 300BLK. Don't say things that are purposely confusing. All the moderators in all the forums help each other and if we see something that needs attention in a forum, don't be surprised when a mod for that forum shows up and takes care of it.


No trolling here. Ya'll don't call it the 300 black out? In short, 300bo? One of the problems is it has too many names, you can also use .300 Whisper ammo. How confusing is that? All in all, it is just a confusing round...
Link Posted: 4/23/2012 2:21:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/23/2012 2:22:11 PM EST by buffetdestroyer]
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By krpind:
Knock off the trolling.

I'm not sure what the issue is, but a lot of people are coming here looking for accurate info. That info should be as unbiased as possible. Certainly we all have our "favorites". Having a favorite and attacking different caliber are two totally different things. Quit making comments that are an attempt to illicit an negative response or worse, confusing to inexperienced ARFCOMMERS who are lurking looking for info on different builds.

It is 300BLK. Don't say things that are purposely confusing. All the moderators in all the forums help each other and if we see something that needs attention in a forum, don't be surprised when a mod for that forum shows up and takes care of it.


No trolling here. Ya'll don't call it the 300 black out? In short, 300bo? One of the problems is it has too many names, you can also use .300 Whisper ammo. How confusing is that? All in all, it is just a confusing round...


You post in every single thread about the 300 BLK in the Variants Forum and the correct and accepted names were made clear in a post above and countless times in many, many other threads what the accepted names of the SAAMI approved 300 AAC Blackout cartridge.

If you still are claiming to be confused and not trolling, then you should probably read more about the cartridge at hand rather than constantly posting about something that you are continually confused about.
Link Posted: 4/23/2012 2:32:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/2/2012 1:25:05 PM EST by 346ci]
Originally Posted By buffetdestroyer:
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By krpind:
Knock off the trolling.

I'm not sure what the issue is, but a lot of people are coming here looking for accurate info. That info should be as unbiased as possible. Certainly we all have our "favorites". Having a favorite and attacking different caliber are two totally different things. Quit making comments that are an attempt to illicit an negative response or worse, confusing to inexperienced ARFCOMMERS who are lurking looking for info on different builds.

It is 300BLK. Don't say things that are purposely confusing. All the moderators in all the forums help each other and if we see something that needs attention in a forum, don't be surprised when a mod for that forum shows up and takes care of it.


No trolling here. Ya'll don't call it the 300 black out? In short, 300bo? One of the problems is it has too many names, you can also use .300 Whisper ammo. How confusing is that? All in all, it is just a confusing round...


You post in every single thread about the 300 BLK in the Variants Forum and the correct and accepted names were made clear in a post above and countless times in many, many other threads what the accepted names of the SAAMI approved 300 AAC Blackout cartridge.

If you still are claiming to be confused and not trolling, then you should probably read more about the cartridge at hand rather than constantly posting about something that you are continually confused about.


So the 300bo is not acceptable?

Edit: I'd like to apologize for some of my comments in here, it doesn't represent me as a person and I let the koolaid drinkers get the best of me.

Link Posted: 4/23/2012 4:38:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/23/2012 4:40:25 PM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 4/23/2012 6:02:10 PM EST
Aimless

Thanks. The .300 BLK is rapidly growing in popularity and yes MANY people are looking for good info
on this cartridge.
Link Posted: 4/23/2012 11:09:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By Recoil737:

Ok what if it wasn't Mr. Silvers that put it out? What if it was a respected bullet manufacture like the link listed below?

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7161/300aacblkbarriersummary.jpg


And there goes the proof of the skewed test results, lol. 300yds you say???

Get a clue Recoil, accept the .300 for what it is.


What .300 are you talking about? The 300 Win Mag? The 300 RCM? The 300 H&H Mag? The 300 Weatherby Mag? The 300 Savage?

It seem I can accept it a lot better than you since you can't even call it by its proper name and got slapped down by the moderator for calling it the 300WTF you still don't have a clue so let me help. The proper names for you to troll/hate on are: 300BLK, 300 AAC Blackout or just 300 Blackout. Got it?

I will post the link one more time for you to look at and if you can't add anything to the conversation or disprove what a Giant in the bullet manufacturing world has flat out stated then just stop spewing your hate and misinformation:

Link showing what 346ci cannot accept and calls skewed results from a Major Bullet manufacture

NEW! 300 AAC Blackout Barnes Products

February 9, 2012 at 11:30 am in Alerts, Bullets
Barnes’ all-copper, polymer-tipped 300 AAC BLK/Whisper 110 grain TAC-TX bullet will be available for sale to handloaders mid-February, 2012 through the Barnes Online Store and Retailers. 300 AAC BLK Barnes VOR-TX Ammunition will be available in April through retailers only.

Specially designed profile ensures flawless magazine-length loading in AR rifles. Full (50-caliber) expansion and 20-inch plus penetration at 300 yards (tested in short and standard length barrel rifles) provides terminal performance unmatched by the competition. All-copper construction provides consistent terminal performance through barriers – an excellent choice for hunters and defense initiatives.

NOTE: Trajectory, Velocity & Energy information updated on 3/21/12 based on a muzzle velocity of 2,350 fps.



Yup, I got the warning. Snitching is something we did in kindergarten.

As for the rest Robert pretty much said the .300bo was not good for 300yd shots on deer on another forum, as I have been saying for a while. Also, can I call it the .300bo? If I have your permission, that seems fair. It reminds me of barack obama so I think it fits well.


I never once reported your post as I thought the way you portrayed your view with childish name calling or one might say even kindergarten like on the 300BLK was quite evident to those who read your posts despite your protests of not trolling and hating on the 300BLK.



Link Posted: 4/23/2012 11:16:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By 346ci:
Originally Posted By krpind:
Knock off the trolling.

I'm not sure what the issue is, but a lot of people are coming here looking for accurate info. That info should be as unbiased as possible. Certainly we all have our "favorites". Having a favorite and attacking different caliber are two totally different things. Quit making comments that are an attempt to illicit an negative response or worse, confusing to inexperienced ARFCOMMERS who are lurking looking for info on different builds.

It is 300BLK. Don't say things that are purposely confusing. All the moderators in all the forums help each other and if we see something that needs attention in a forum, don't be surprised when a mod for that forum shows up and takes care of it.


No trolling here. Ya'll don't call it the 300 black out? In short, 300bo? One of the problems is it has too many names, you can also use .300 Whisper ammo. How confusing is that? All in all, it is just a confusing round...


You say you remember a post from a long time ago on another forum that Robert said the 300BLK can't take deer out to 300 yards but get confused over the one SAAMI approved name that on every forum you seem to troll on and can't spell a simple thing like 300 Blackout or 300BLK.

P.S. I apologize if you are one of those people who take the short bus to school and if that is the case keep up the good work and you can call the 300BLK anything you want.
Link Posted: 4/24/2012 4:49:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gunwritr:
Aimless

Thanks. The .300 BLK is rapidly growing in popularity and yes MANY people are looking for good info
on this cartridge.


Damn right! What's not to like about all the parts in common with 5.56 and similar performance as the 762x39? I think it can/will be very useful....
Link Posted: 4/25/2012 3:40:27 PM EST
I voted for 6.8

300 BLK is a good round also because the ability to shoot subs suppressed but this feature while good for punching paper doesn't do much from a practical ballistics standpoint. I'd rather have the 6.8 which is more like a bigger 5.56 except without the slow powder burn rates of the 5.56 which is a problem for modern firearms.
Link Posted: 4/29/2012 11:58:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By FiveToOne:
I voted for 6.8

300 BLK is a good round also because the ability to shoot subs suppressed but this feature while good for punching paper doesn't do much from a practical ballistics standpoint. I'd rather have the 6.8 which is more like a bigger 5.56 except without the slow powder burn rates of the 5.56 which is a problem for modern firearms.


Please explain why the subs suppressed are only good for punching paper and don't have much from a practical ballistics standpoint.

You do understand that a lot of military and law enforcement organizations use the HK MP5SD right? The 300BLK subsonic rounds has over twice the range and almost twice the power of the MP5SD and is even quieter than it. Don't forget that with a change of a magazine it can do anything the 6.8 can out to 300 yards.

With 300BLK subsonic ammo ballistics similar to the .45ACP but with longer range capabilities I would be hard pressed to say it is only good for punching paper.
Link Posted: 4/30/2012 5:14:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
Originally Posted By FiveToOne:
I voted for 6.8

300 BLK is a good round also because the ability to shoot subs suppressed but this feature while good for punching paper doesn't do much from a practical ballistics standpoint. I'd rather have the 6.8 which is more like a bigger 5.56 except without the slow powder burn rates of the 5.56 which is a problem for modern firearms.


Please explain why the subs suppressed are only good for punching paper and don't have much from a practical ballistics standpoint.

You do understand that a lot of military and law enforcement organizations use the HK MP5SD right? The 300BLK subsonic rounds has over twice the range and almost twice the power of the MP5SD and is even quieter than it. Don't forget that with a change of a magazine it can do anything the 6.8 can out to 300 yards.

With 300BLK subsonic ammo ballistics similar to the .45ACP but with longer range capabilities I would be hard pressed to say it is only good for punching paper.


Subsonic bullets do not perform well on game ask anyone who has tried. Unless you are a LEO I don't see why you would want to operate they way they use their HKs, if you aren't running covert ops or hunting it must be a range toy. The 300blk/whisper is apx 150-200fps slower than a 7.62x39 with the same weight bullets. Would you really use something slower than a AK to shoot 300yds at game or paper?
Link Posted: 4/30/2012 5:43:50 AM EST
Pride of ownership has gotten in the way of common sense.
The 300BLK is not the best intermediate cartridge, its just the latest best thing.

Not saying 600-650 FPE wont kill a deer at 300 yards, just that there are better tools for the job.

For me as far a subsonic, its nice that you dont ding your ears without
hearing protection but thats about it. For hunting there is just not enough power on the game.

Savage was going to make a factory 300 blk rifle but cancelled because they could not achieve
the typical savage accuracy out of the round.

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