Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
W88
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Posts 2
  • EE 0% (0)
USA NM, USA
Posted: 3/3/2012 4:26:14 PM EST
I've been in and out of the AR world, mostly out and no offense intended here.

I've been puzzled about all the excitement over the 300 Blackout/300 Whisper. I just don't see what it's all about. The Blackout is 300 fps slower than a 7.62x39 and I do understand the feed issues/magazines.

The 30 AR hasn't been setting sales records despite it's ballistic superiority. The 30 AR is 700 fps faster than the Blackout, dramatically more potent.

I have a Remington R-15, 30 AR caliber coming in next week. I talked to a CSR at Remington last week. He said Remington isn't giving up on the round, is backlogged on some of the ammo varieties and will be making brass in the fall for reloaders. 300 rds of factory ammo will suffice till the RCBS dies come in. Don

Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Dec 2009
  • Posts 130
  • EE 100% (46)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 3/3/2012 5:20:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/3/2012 5:20:44 PM EST by TylerB42]
The 300 Blk responds very well to suppression and utilizes all the same components of a 5.56 AR15 (less the barrel). The 30AR has little industry backing and utilizes non standard (AR15) parts, I would guess they are very similar suppressed..

Brass costs, non-proprietary parts and industry backing are the reason for the hype.

The ability to have a suppressed platform quieter than an MP5-SD while doing all the above...is also advantageous

*not a 300 owner...but will be

Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2006
  • Posts 11750
  • EE 100% (7)
USA MI, USA
Military
Link Posted: 3/3/2012 5:34:21 PM EST
300BLK for suppressor fun, 30 RAR for deer hunting.
No crime is so great as daring to excel. -Winston Churchill
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Aug 2007
  • Posts 1197
  • EE 0% (0)
USA VA, USA
Link Posted: 3/4/2012 6:34:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By W88:
I've been in and out of the AR world, mostly out and no offense intended here.

I've been puzzled about all the excitement over the 300 Blackout/300 Whisper. I just don't see what it's all about. The Blackout is 300 fps slower than a 7.62x39 and I do understand the feed issues/magazines.

The 30 AR hasn't been setting sales records despite it's ballistic superiority. The 30 AR is 700 fps faster than the Blackout, dramatically more potent.

I have a Remington R-15, 30 AR caliber coming in next week. I talked to a CSR at Remington last week. He said Remington isn't giving up on the round, is backlogged on some of the ammo varieties and will be making brass in the fall for reloaders. 300 rds of factory ammo will suffice till the RCBS dies come in. Don


Agree, the 300 may be a good replacement for the HK MP5K 9mm subsonic but it is not a good choice for hunting unless it's intended use is poaching.
The 30 RAR should perform well for hunting.


Basic
Offline
  • Joined Dec 2009
  • Posts 5
  • EE 0% (0)
USA VA, USA
Link Posted: 3/4/2012 7:03:14 AM EST
it is not a good choice for hunting unless it's intended use is poaching.
The 30 RAR should perform well for hunting.

[/quote]

I don't understand the thinking here. I can only conclude that you believe that a suppressed rifle is only going to used for something illegal. This is the kind of thought process that leads to gun bans and magazine bans –– "why do you need an semi-automatic rifle, why do you need a 20 or 30 round magazine, etc". If you really are concerned about silent hunting, consider bows and crossbows.


W88
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Posts 4
  • EE 0% (0)
USA NM, USA
Link Posted: 3/4/2012 9:25:01 AM EST
Since I'm a newbie here, I don't want to create false impressions of my attitudes. I have nothing against suppressors, quite the contrary, I think they're really neat and regular people, not just LE and military, should be able to use them. I simply don't have a gun I want to suppress at this time, nor do I want to pay for the suppressor and tax stamp whatever.

So, my comment wasn't a putdown of the .300 Blackout for what it is intended, just a comment that there are much more potent rounds available for the AR-15 platform that I, as somewhat of a power junkie, prefer.

Speaking of suppressors, a friend of mine has a big can on a Steyr bolt in .308. I was absolutely STUNNED at how quiet it is. Subjectively, it seemed a lot quieter than a .22LR semi auto rifle. I felt that there was absolutely no reason to wear hearing protection and this comes from someone who wears double ear protection on everything but a .22LR rifle. Don

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Sep 2008
  • Posts 1646
  • EE 100% (175)
USA MO, USA
Link Posted: 3/4/2012 10:52:19 AM EST
If your shots are 150 yards or under the blk does very good. Much farther and you will be fast calculating drop. Ive killed a couple pigs and 4 deer and a coyote in the last 2 seasons with my 16" barrel. Now that my 8" is ready Im going to hunt with it. What I really have found from experience of shooting at live animals is they cant locate the shot and Ive had a coyote and 2 deer run right to me after shooting. Its great! I use Hornady SST 150 grain bullets to hunt with. And TTSX's in 130 grain.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2003
  • Posts 626
  • EE 0% (0)
USA NC, USA
Link Posted: 3/4/2012 11:11:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/4/2012 11:15:59 AM EST by garyd]
Originally Posted By Tim_W:

Agree, the 300 may be a good replacement for the HK MP5K 9mm subsonic but it is not a good choice for hunting unless it's intended use is poaching.



I do not want to sound insulting but that statement is completely incorrect and insulting. So shooting deer quietly is poaching. Does that include crossbow and bow hunters?

I or my daughter have killed 8 deer with 300 blackout.
I have also killed 2 foxes, a couple rabbits a few squirrels and a couple of wild dogs all excellent results

While I own a suppressor I cannot use it here in North Carolina for hunting YET? But there are some states that you can use one. For instance Virginia.
But notice all loadings but the one my Daughter shot were subsonic.

1st deer 2010 season 6 pointer missing an antler, neck shot drooped on the spot
178gr Amax
935fps






2nd Deer 2010 season 6 pointer did not get good pics of this one. Vitals shot bullet tumbled on exit. Made it 30 yds


entrance


Exit


Daughter took this one this year
180gr Prototype low velocity expander
1475fps


Exit wound

did a lot internal damage made it less than 50 yds

1st one for me this past season
200gr Prototype low velocity expander
935fps


entrance


found bullet just under skin on other side hit bone the whole way


serious spine damage


2nd one this past season


Entrance


Exit


Lungs


3rd one I actually thought was a large Doe, but ended up being a descent size button buck.

Right at the base of the neck and back. dropped where he was. he was still breathing a little when I got to him so finished him with my .22 1911 top of head.


recovered bullet in left shoulder.


4th one was another small doe a pair came in so I lined up one and took her in the shoulder. she ran off about 30yds and was dead.


Double lung shot
Entrance


Exit


Now the funny part was when I shot the other one of course took off the opposite direction then the one I shot. When I got to where I shot her I found this on the ground:

I was confused because I new where I had aimed and she was walking slowly when I took the shot, plus there was a blood trail. So I followed the blood and there she was. In just that few minutes, I had forgotten about the tail until I drug her back to where I shot her and then saw the tail on the ground again. I looked at her tail and the whole thing was there. I realized that as she was walking she had walked in front of the other one and when I took the shot the bullet went thru and then clipped off the tail of the other one.

Last one was a mercy kill spike buck came in limping and only one antler.


His back leg looked like it had been hit with a shotgun pellet. bone was shattered and had started to heal all messed up. wound was infected. the other antler which I thought maybe had broken off had actually never started growing. We have hunters that run dogs in this county and this is seen a lot. guy tries taking a shot at a running deer with his 12 gauge and all he does is wound it . I am not a fan of dog runners.

All in all a successful year. All six deer shot with .300 blackout recovered and processed. Meat in freezer and looking forward to next year.

But as some people keep posting the .300 blackout is not a good round for deer hunting So must be a fluke.

W88
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Posts 5
  • EE 0% (0)
USA NM, USA
Link Posted: 3/4/2012 12:02:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By glk34:
If your shots are 150 yards or under the blk does very good. Much farther and you will be fast calculating drop. Ive killed a couple pigs and 4 deer and a coyote in the last 2 seasons with my 16" barrel. Now that my 8" is ready Im going to hunt with it. What I really have found from experience of shooting at live animals is they cant locate the shot and Ive had a coyote and 2 deer run right to me after shooting. Its great! I use Hornady SST 150 grain bullets to hunt with. And TTSX's in 130 grain.


That's funny. I've heard similar comments that game animals don't get a line on where the shot is coming from. Happy hunting! Don

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2011
  • Posts 125
  • EE 0% (0)
USA NC, USA
Link Posted: 3/4/2012 1:13:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tim_W:
Agree, the 300 may be a good replacement for the HK MP5K 9mm subsonic but it is not a good choice for hunting unless it's intended use is poaching.


Wow. That is about as uninformed a response as I've seen on so many levels.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Aug 2007
  • Posts 1199
  • EE 0% (0)
USA VA, USA
Link Posted: 3/4/2012 4:14:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By QuietRiot11:
Originally Posted By Tim_W:
Agree, the 300 may be a good replacement for the HK MP5K 9mm subsonic but it is not a good choice for hunting unless it's intended use is poaching.


Wow. That is about as uninformed a response as I've seen on so many levels.

Actually a foreign country is looking to replace their MP5Ks.
And for the second part hunters aren't the only ones using game cams, big suppressors show up pretty clear.


Basic
Offline
  • Joined Apr 2006
  • Posts 788
  • EE 100% (19)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 3/4/2012 4:15:54 PM EST
This pic shows sub-sonic damage from my 300 WTF, using a YHM 9mm XL can, I got 3 hogs in this ambush.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Posts 863
  • EE 100% (44)
USA NC, USA
Link Posted: 3/4/2012 7:29:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By W88:
I just don't see what it's all about. The Blackout is 300 fps slower than a 7.62x39 and I do understand the feed issues/magazines.


The 300 is tacticool and is the "thing" to have right now. I'd steer away from it and anything else from freedom group. The 30AR would be a much better choice for hunting but is really lacking support. If either one shows signs of less profit, you will see them dropped quick. I'd stick with a proven preformer like the 6.5 or 6.8.

GO GATORS! GO TEBOW!
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2002
  • Posts 1744
  • EE 100% (63)
PAK PAK
Military
Link Posted: 3/4/2012 11:15:27 PM EST
The .300 BLK (AAC) will be more popular in the future that the 6.5 and 6.8 combined, difference in cartridges, different results, efficiency is the bottom line.
"Everybody's gotta die sometime Red"
GO GATORS! GO TEBOW!
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2002
  • Posts 1745
  • EE 100% (63)
PAK PAK
Military
Link Posted: 3/4/2012 11:17:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By Fritzcat:
This pic shows sub-sonic damage from my 300 WTF, using a YHM 9mm XL can, I got 3 hogs in this ambush.http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x456/Fritzcat/Picture071.jpg


Nice, too bad the .300 BLK is not a good hunting cartridge.

"Everybody's gotta die sometime Red"
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Posts 864
  • EE 100% (44)
USA NC, USA
Link Posted: 3/5/2012 1:32:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By sandblaster:
The .300 BLK (AAC) will be more popular in the future that the 6.5 and 6.8 combined, difference in cartridges, different results, efficiency is the bottom line.


As long as the mall ninjas are out and about, you are correct. However, the WTF and efficiency don't go together. Once those types see it has not advantages worth twice the price over a heavy 5.56, it will fizzle out.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Apr 2006
  • Posts 790
  • EE 100% (19)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 3/5/2012 2:11:31 AM EST
The 300 WTF is just a toy to me, to hunt pigs suppressed. I now use one of my 458 Socoms for suppressed hog hunting and there is no comparisom. For super-sonic, I grab my AR47, 762x39. My go to SHTF gun will always be a 5.56.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Aug 2002
  • Posts 986
  • EE 0% (0)
USA CA, USA
Link Posted: 3/10/2012 10:06:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2012 10:06:33 PM EST by DocGKR]
Interesting comments...

I might not know as much about terminal ballistics as some of you seem to, but the .300 BLK is very versatile as it can do the same job as well or better than suppressed MP5's, 5.56 mm SBR's, and AK47's. External and terminal ballistics are equal to or better than the well proven 7.62x39mm. With barrier blind projectiles, 300 BLK is an ideal caliber for both Patrol and Tactical LE use, as it offers outstanding terminal performance and intermediate barrier capability in the critical 0-100m range and remains capable out to 300m or so. With the advent of barrier blind loads like the Barnes 110 gr Tac-TX and upcoming bonded loads like the Rem CLUB, the .300 BLK becomes an outstanding choice for hunting up to med game and can be used in any hunting situation that is appropriate for lighter .30-30 loads.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Jan 2001
  • Posts 465
  • EE 0% (0)
USA CA, USA
Link Posted: 3/10/2012 10:21:17 PM EST
Good grief! The appeal is using a 30 cal bullet with the case cut down and re sized for the .30 is whats cool.
And using my existing mags with just a new set of dies is why I like it.

Suppressed this and that isnt the point. Poaching? Come on? breaking the law is just that. You deserve to get busted with what ever your using?
For the shooting reloading enthusiast
like myself?
I like the simplicity of using heavier bullets in an existing platform.

Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Posts 1410
  • EE 0% (0)
USA IL, USA
Link Posted: 3/11/2012 11:51:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By DocGKR:
Interesting comments...

I might not know as much about terminal ballistics as some of you seem to, but the .300 BLK is very versatile as it can do the same job as well or better than suppressed MP5's, 5.56 mm SBR's, and AK47's. External and terminal ballistics are equal to or better than the well proven 7.62x39mm. With barrier blind projectiles, 300 BLK is an ideal caliber for both Patrol and Tactical LE use, as it offers outstanding terminal performance and intermediate barrier capability in the critical 0-100m range and remains capable out to 300m or so. With the advent of barrier blind loads like the Barnes 110 gr Tac-TX and upcoming bonded loads like the Rem CLUB, the .300 BLK becomes an outstanding choice for hunting up to med game and can be used in any hunting situation that is appropriate for lighter .30-30 loads.


LOL! Doc why would they want to your word for it after your years of scientific research on the subject if it doesn't match what they know to be true because they read it on the errornet?

Thanks for all the great info BTW, and I look forward to hopefully seeing some 300blk ammo comparisons on the other site some day soon.

Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2004
  • Posts 4454
  • EE 100% (1)
USA USA
Link Posted: 3/11/2012 12:46:35 PM EST
Looks like the 300 BLK detractors "aint no good for huntin 'n killin" just got owned by the the good Doctor of terminal ballistics.
Tough times breed strong people; Strong people create good times; Good times breed weak people; Weak people create tough times
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Mar 2005
  • Posts 797
  • EE 0% (0)
USA PA, USA
Link Posted: 3/11/2012 4:41:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By sandblaster:
The .300 BLK (AAC) will be more popular in the future that the 6.5 and 6.8 combined, difference in cartridges, different results, efficiency is the bottom line.


I will second this comment... I read somehwere (I can't remember where) that the 300BLK has sold more rounds in one year than the 6.8 did in 4.

Everyone seems to only talk about the 300BLK in a subsonic roll. Standard ammo is VERY leatheal out to 300 yrds out of a 9" barrel. How often does anyone really take game past 300 yrds? I know it has been done and is very possible and just fine to do that, but how often?

Jk

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Mar 2010
  • Posts 8
  • EE 0% (0)
USA VA, USA
Link Posted: 3/11/2012 5:06:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2012 5:11:37 PM EST by ritepath]
Considering my 6yo son killed a Whitetail two years ago with a 9mm Sub2000, I believe the 300blk will do a pretty good job on deer/coyotes. He killed one this past season with his new 7mm08 at 7 years of age. Both deer were taken at distances of less than 30 yards (easy bow range) I hope to have my 300 built by deer season. I'll be leaving the 270BAR, 308, 223's, 22-250 and 7mm08 in the safe for deer season. Considering in 30 years of deer hunting the longest kill I've pulled off was 226 yards (deer not turkey) I figure the blk should do a fine job.


Basic
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2011
  • Posts 98
  • EE 0% (0)
USA ID, USA
Link Posted: 3/11/2012 6:02:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2012 7:10:48 PM EST by GACKER1143]
W88
Well bud I'll take my 16" Carbine 300 blk over your 22" R15 any day. How much does the R15 weight fully loaded. My Carbines just over 6 lbs. That R15 has to be close to 8 lbs. And with a shorter barrel your getting just about the same velocity as my 300blk. I can shoot alot heavier bullets as well yours tops out at 150gr. At a wopping 2500 fps wow impressive-not! Question why is the R15 limited to only four round mag?

ARFCOM Czar
Avatar
Lifetime Member
Offline
  • Joined May 2004
  • Posts 38704
  • EE 100% (9)
USA TX, USA
NRA
Link Posted: 3/11/2012 6:55:43 PM EST
ARFCOM.....Time well wasted.

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Just remember to pay it forward. If someone is in need, do something positive.
?
Avatar
Lifetime Member
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2001
  • Posts 9623
  • EE 100% (42)
USA USA
NRAMilitary
Link Posted: 3/12/2012 5:52:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2012 5:52:39 AM EST by bigsapper]
Originally Posted By PeaShooter:
Suppressed this and that isnt the point. Poaching? Come on? breaking the law is just that. You deserve to get busted with


Lot's of herp-derp in that comment. TX is on the verge of approving suppressors for use while hunting game animals. TXPWD recently was overwhelmed by feedback during a comment period supporting this change to the regs.
BTW it's always been legal for non-game hunting. If I hunt at night am I poaching?

A lot of other states allow it too.

ETA: And thanks for the input Doc.
?
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Jul 2006
  • Posts 2438
  • EE 100% (11)
USA TX, USA
Military
Link Posted: 3/12/2012 6:04:43 AM EST
Bunch of internet commandos on this one.

At first I did not see the appeal on this round either. If I was to build a 16" gun then I think that a better performing 6.8 would be better. But, if you are wanting to shoot suppressed, and want to spend time in the field, an SBR is handy. I see the appeal for a hard hitting SBR for night hunting with NV.

I recently hunted at night (legally, since some think this is poaching and are retarded) with a 16" AR equipped with a pvs-14 and my AAC 762-SD. That thing got heavy quick. A SBR would have balanced better and been just as effective and quieter in .300blk.

I've shot a lot of deer and my longest shot was around 220-250 yds. I just don't take shots past the 200 yd mark because of several reasons. (terrain, ethics, etc) For me, this caliber will be useful out to MY effective hunting ranges, allow the use of a SBR, work with my can, and will be available in factory loaded subsonics.

I will own the spikes tactical 10" upper with 12" hand guard.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Mar 2001
  • Posts 468
  • EE 100% (30)
USA USA
Link Posted: 3/12/2012 7:08:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By garyd:
Originally Posted By Tim_W:

Agree, the 300 may be a good replacement for the HK MP5K 9mm subsonic but it is not a good choice for hunting unless it's intended use is poaching.



I do not want to sound insulting but that statement is completely incorrect and insulting. So shooting deer quietly is poaching. Does that include crossbow and bow hunters?

I or my daughter have killed 8 deer with 300 blackout.
I have also killed 2 foxes, a couple rabbits a few squirrels and a couple of wild dogs all excellent results

While I own a suppressor I cannot use it here in North Carolina for hunting YET? But there are some states that you can use one. For instance Virginia.
But notice all loadings but the one my Daughter shot were subsonic.

1st deer 2010 season 6 pointer missing an antler, neck shot drooped on the spot
178gr Amax
935fps
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300whisper6pointer004jpg.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300whisper6pointer003jpg.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300whisper6pointer001jpg.jpg

2nd Deer 2010 season 6 pointer did not get good pics of this one. Vitals shot bullet tumbled on exit. Made it 30 yds
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/607004968_2165090710_0.jpg

entrance
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300whisper6pointerx2007jpg.jpg

Exit
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300whisper6pointerx2008jpg.jpg

Daughter took this one this year
180gr Prototype low velocity expander
1475fps
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/BriannasDoe003.jpg

Exit wound
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/BriannasDoe005.jpg
did a lot internal damage made it less than 50 yds

1st one for me this past season
200gr Prototype low velocity expander
935fps
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300blackoutLVEdoe003jpg.jpg

entrance
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/entrance.jpg

found bullet just under skin on other side hit bone the whole way
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/bulletsstop.jpg

serious spine damage
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/spinedamage.jpg

2nd one this past season
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300blackoutLVEdoe001jpg.jpg

Entrance
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300blackoutLVEdoe008jpg.jpg

Exit
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300blackoutLVEdoe009jpg.jpg

Lungs
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300blackoutLVEdoe010jpg.jpg

3rd one I actually thought was a large Doe, but ended up being a descent size button buck.

Right at the base of the neck and back. dropped where he was. he was still breathing a little when I got to him so finished him with my .22 1911 top of head.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/HPIM2741.jpg

recovered bullet in left shoulder.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/HPIM2743.jpg

4th one was another small doe a pair came in so I lined up one and took her in the shoulder. she ran off about 30yds and was dead.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300blackoutLVEdoe001jpg-1.jpg

Double lung shot
Entrance
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/LungEntrance3.jpg

Exit
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/LungExit2.jpg

Now the funny part was when I shot the other one of course took off the opposite direction then the one I shot. When I got to where I shot her I found this on the ground:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/doetail.jpg
I was confused because I new where I had aimed and she was walking slowly when I took the shot, plus there was a blood trail. So I followed the blood and there she was. In just that few minutes, I had forgotten about the tail until I drug her back to where I shot her and then saw the tail on the ground again. I looked at her tail and the whole thing was there. I realized that as she was walking she had walked in front of the other one and when I took the shot the bullet went thru and then clipped off the tail of the other one.

Last one was a mercy kill spike buck came in limping and only one antler.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/spike003.jpg

His back leg looked like it had been hit with a shotgun pellet. bone was shattered and had started to heal all messed up. wound was infected. the other antler which I thought maybe had broken off had actually never started growing. We have hunters that run dogs in this county and this is seen a lot. guy tries taking a shot at a running deer with his 12 gauge and all he does is wound it . I am not a fan of dog runners.

All in all a successful year. All six deer shot with .300 blackout recovered and processed. Meat in freezer and looking forward to next year.

But as some people keep posting the .300 blackout is not a good round for deer hunting So must be a fluke.


Going into the field with a new gun and no thread protector? Thats odd... Just saying....

ARFCOM Czar
Avatar
Lifetime Member
Offline
  • Joined May 2004
  • Posts 38714
  • EE 100% (9)
USA TX, USA
NRA
Link Posted: 3/12/2012 7:48:37 AM EST
ARFCOM.....Time well wasted.

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Just remember to pay it forward. If someone is in need, do something positive.
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Jul 2007
  • Posts 225
  • EE 100% (69)
USA NV, USA
Link Posted: 3/12/2012 8:05:47 AM EST
Regarding the first post, the 7.62x39 is not 300 fps faster than the 300 BLK unless comparing an 8" barrel 300 BLK to a 24" barrel 7.62x39. Please check your sources.


Here is my quick list of possible 300 BLK advantages over the competition:

Replace one (1) Part (the barrel) to change calibers on an AR or Bolt Action
You don't have to buy a new magazine collection to swap calibers
Brass is made from readily available .223/5.56
Bullets are the commonly available .308 caliber from 110 to 240 grains
Typically better accuracy/performance compared to common sub-gun calibers with the option of going to medium range distances effectively
Ability to shoot subsonic safely without variable gas system
Ballistics similar to a 7.62x39 when using the same barrel length
Legal hunting caliber for medium game (vs .223 in some states)

When comparing a cartridge, please remember that a .22LR is effective for a lot of uses, but it probably isn't the best choice for 2 mile shots at bull elephants... Just like a .50 BMG may not be the best choice for cheap plinking or squirrel hunting.

If you need different performance, then there are different calibers to suit your needs. If you don't prefer one, that is fine, but spreading misinformation to discredit something and insinuate that the users are doing illegal activities is probably not the best way to gain favor for your particular favorite caliber.


Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2003
  • Posts 635
  • EE 0% (0)
USA NC, USA
Link Posted: 3/12/2012 9:56:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2012 9:56:52 AM EST by garyd]
Originally Posted By PreBandit:



Going into the field with a new gun and no thread protector? Thats odd... Just saying....


Fare question. The barrel you are referring to is a borrowed barrel. It is threaded for an odd size left hand thread. Do not have a thread protector for it. I guess I could tape it up, but I did not. That does not make me a criminal but I guess I understand your concern, but as I said it does not have one.

Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Posts 2
  • EE 0% (0)
USA GA, USA
Link Posted: 3/13/2012 4:33:33 PM EST
This thread is both informative... AND entertaining!

Different strokes for different folks. I own a Wilson Combat 18" 6.8 and it's great. A real tack driver. Only one drawback for me that's been mentioned already. Ammo is a little high in price. When the Tula hits, fine for some, but I haven't figured out reliably how to reload steel cases. 6.8 unfired brass is kind of expensive, and I have yet to pick up a single once fired case at the range.

300 BLK is the economy "step-up" - barrel change only gives you: larger caliber, heavier bullets; brass is inexpensive... I just cut down 5.56 pick-ups left on the ground by the "weekend Rambos" and buy .308 pulls from Hi-Tech for plinkin'. Very versatile cartridge. I've just ordered a Black Hole Weaponry 11.5" to build a "fun gun" upper. One I need to cross off the bucket list when the barrel gets here: PowerPistol in the 11.5" barrel with a 125 grain bullet.

5.56 has been around for about 50 years. Cheap ammo, and as long as the military keeps using it, there should be a decent supply.

I own each of the above, and each is for a different purpose. Hundreds of different automobile models and makes... would you buy a Beetle to run NASCAR? Would you buy a Viper for it's fuel economy? I've been told and told for years what the "perfect" firearm is, and each time... it's something different from someone else. Analyze the need, and buy the weapon that fulfills that need. I've owned a lot of weapons over the years, and have yet to buy "the perfect" firearm.

As for the entertainment... what are the odds of a poacher spending over a grand for a suppressor and $200.00 for a tax stamp in order to buy it? That's GOTTA be entertainment!

And now for some additional entertainment... now that hunting hogs from helicopters is LEGAL in Texas, which of the above calibers would you use?????? Flame if you must!

That is all...
Experience is knowing what not to do and what won't work.
M60... Accuracy by volume.
TK5
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Aug 2011
  • Posts 203
  • EE 100% (5)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 3/13/2012 6:22:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By Waldorf:

As for the entertainment... what are the odds of a poacher spending over a grand for a suppressor and $200.00 for a tax stamp in order to buy it? That's GOTTA be entertainment!


Cheaper than catching a felony.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Jul 2006
  • Posts 2441
  • EE 100% (11)
USA TX, USA
Military
Link Posted: 3/13/2012 7:43:23 PM EST
Hogs from a helicopter? I'd probably use a 16" 5.56 with m855 or m193. But that's just me.



Basic
Offline
  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Posts 118
  • EE 100% (17)
USA MO, USA
Link Posted: 3/14/2012 6:28:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By garyd:
All in all a successful year. All six deer shot with .300 blackout recovered and processed. Meat in freezer and looking forward to next year.

But as some people keep posting the .300 blackout is not a good round for deer hunting So must be a fluke.


Not to go too far afield here, but those pics might work better than a shotgun when meeting your daughter's suitors. ;)

Glad to hear of successes using this round for hunting, I hope to do so this next season.

Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2003
  • Posts 641
  • EE 0% (0)
USA NC, USA
Link Posted: 3/14/2012 6:33:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By ErikO:
Originally Posted By garyd:
All in all a successful year. All six deer shot with .300 blackout recovered and processed. Meat in freezer and looking forward to next year.

But as some people keep posting the .300 blackout is not a good round for deer hunting So must be a fluke.


Not to go too far afield here, but those pics might work better than a shotgun when meeting your daughter's suitors. ;)

Glad to hear of successes using this round for hunting, I hope to do so this next season.


Already in the plans man, already in the plans.


Basic
Offline
  • Joined Sep 2009
  • Posts 223
  • EE 0% (0)
USA MO, USA
Link Posted: 3/14/2012 6:49:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By garyd:
Originally Posted By Tim_W:

Agree, the 300 may be a good replacement for the HK MP5K 9mm subsonic but it is not a good choice for hunting unless it's intended use is poaching.



I do not want to sound insulting but that statement is completely incorrect and insulting. So shooting deer quietly is poaching. Does that include crossbow and bow hunters?

I or my daughter have killed 8 deer with 300 blackout.
I have also killed 2 foxes, a couple rabbits a few squirrels and a couple of wild dogs all excellent results

While I own a suppressor I cannot use it here in North Carolina for hunting YET? But there are some states that you can use one. For instance Virginia.
But notice all loadings but the one my Daughter shot were subsonic.

1st deer 2010 season 6 pointer missing an antler, neck shot drooped on the spot
178gr Amax
935fps
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300whisper6pointer004jpg.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300whisper6pointer003jpg.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300whisper6pointer001jpg.jpg

2nd Deer 2010 season 6 pointer did not get good pics of this one. Vitals shot bullet tumbled on exit. Made it 30 yds
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/607004968_2165090710_0.jpg

entrance
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300whisper6pointerx2007jpg.jpg

Exit
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300whisper6pointerx2008jpg.jpg

Daughter took this one this year
180gr Prototype low velocity expander
1475fps
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/BriannasDoe003.jpg

Exit wound
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/BriannasDoe005.jpg
did a lot internal damage made it less than 50 yds

1st one for me this past season
200gr Prototype low velocity expander
935fps
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300blackoutLVEdoe003jpg.jpg

entrance
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/entrance.jpg

found bullet just under skin on other side hit bone the whole way
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/bulletsstop.jpg

serious spine damage
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/spinedamage.jpg

2nd one this past season
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300blackoutLVEdoe001jpg.jpg

Entrance
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300blackoutLVEdoe008jpg.jpg

Exit
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300blackoutLVEdoe009jpg.jpg

Lungs
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300blackoutLVEdoe010jpg.jpg

3rd one I actually thought was a large Doe, but ended up being a descent size button buck.

Right at the base of the neck and back. dropped where he was. he was still breathing a little when I got to him so finished him with my .22 1911 top of head.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/HPIM2741.jpg

recovered bullet in left shoulder.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/HPIM2743.jpg

4th one was another small doe a pair came in so I lined up one and took her in the shoulder. she ran off about 30yds and was dead.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/300blackoutLVEdoe001jpg-1.jpg

Double lung shot
Entrance
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/LungEntrance3.jpg

Exit
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/LungExit2.jpg

Now the funny part was when I shot the other one of course took off the opposite direction then the one I shot. When I got to where I shot her I found this on the ground:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/doetail.jpg
I was confused because I new where I had aimed and she was walking slowly when I took the shot, plus there was a blood trail. So I followed the blood and there she was. In just that few minutes, I had forgotten about the tail until I drug her back to where I shot her and then saw the tail on the ground again. I looked at her tail and the whole thing was there. I realized that as she was walking she had walked in front of the other one and when I took the shot the bullet went thru and then clipped off the tail of the other one.

Last one was a mercy kill spike buck came in limping and only one antler.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/spike003.jpg

His back leg looked like it had been hit with a shotgun pellet. bone was shattered and had started to heal all messed up. wound was infected. the other antler which I thought maybe had broken off had actually never started growing. We have hunters that run dogs in this county and this is seen a lot. guy tries taking a shot at a running deer with his 12 gauge and all he does is wound it . I am not a fan of dog runners.

All in all a successful year. All six deer shot with .300 blackout recovered and processed. Meat in freezer and looking forward to next year.

But as some people keep posting the .300 blackout is not a good round for deer hunting So must be a fluke.


Garyd,

Thanks for the excellent pics on the terminal performance of the 300BO.
May I also suggest that you put a ruler by the side of the wound cavty to show its size. We need more pics like these in this forum.
Thanks

Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2003
  • Posts 642
  • EE 0% (0)
USA NC, USA
Link Posted: 3/14/2012 7:00:04 AM EST
I do regret not having a ruler sitting next to the pics on those exit wounds especially. All the shots where the round exited was at least 1/2 inch in the skin.

Severed heads equal open minds!
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Dec 2009
  • Posts 1332
  • EE 100% (4)
USA NM, USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 6:23:28 AM EST
If the 300 blackout is so great, (And I'm not knocking it, I'm starting to love it myself) Why hasn't the military switched over yet? If it's just a barrel and some retooling of the ammo factory? Besides the obvious, of a President who hates our military and is cutting defense spending? Or is that it?
Owning an AR-15 has been a dream of mine, since I was a sperm in my dad's balls!
Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2003
  • Posts 645
  • EE 0% (0)
USA NC, USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 6:49:10 AM EST
I would be surprised if the military switch away from the NATO standard any time soon if at all. The military would have to revamp training to compensate for different ballistics. One thing the military does not seem to do well is change.

I personally think it would be great. 110 gr supers would be a great for general issue with 220 subs for special applications. but not likely to happen.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Mar 2007
  • Posts 368
  • EE 100% (39)
USA MN, USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 6:51:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By benw8887:
If the 300 blackout is so great, (And I'm not knocking it, I'm starting to love it myself) Why hasn't the military switched over yet? If it's just a barrel and some retooling of the ammo factory? Besides the obvious, of a President who hates our military and is cutting defense spending? Or is that it?


Even though it doesn't sound like much, the logistics of a changeover like that are enormous. Ammo commonality with NATO allies is another consideration.

Severed heads equal open minds!
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Dec 2009
  • Posts 1333
  • EE 100% (4)
USA NM, USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 7:02:20 AM EST
Oh, NATO, I didn't think about that. And the training would be a tremendous undertaking. Probably not the best time now, while we're involved in 2 different conflicts.

But at some point we're just gonna have to do it. To give our troops something to defend themselves with, especially if we stay in the wide open spaces of the Middle east and southwestern Asia.
Owning an AR-15 has been a dream of mine, since I was a sperm in my dad's balls!
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Posts 35
  • EE 100% (36)
USA PA, USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 7:34:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By benw8887:
Oh, NATO, I didn't think about that. And the training would be a tremendous undertaking. Probably not the best time now, while we're involved in 2 different conflicts.

But at some point we're just gonna have to do it. To give our troops something to defend themselves with, especially if we stay in the wide open spaces of the Middle east and southwestern Asia.


That is exactly why they wouldnt switch over the 300 blkout. With the wide open expanses and mountain to mountain engagements in afghanistan a round with a rather limited range capability would not be advantageous to our troops. The 300 might hit harder, quieter and be the bigger badder round, but the 5.56 can reach out much further. I really doubt the 5.56 is going anywhere anytime soon.

Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2004
  • Posts 4461
  • EE 100% (1)
USA USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 8:05:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By garyd:
I would be surprised if the military switch away from the NATO standard any time soon if at all. The military would have to revamp training to compensate for different ballistics. One thing the military does not seem to do well is change.

I personally think it would be great. 110 gr supers would be a great for general issue with 220 subs for special applications. but not likely to happen.


Don't forget that the military will be using FMJ ammo so the terminal effect we need to compare is FMJ to FMJ. The 223 may have an advantage do to the higher velocity compared to the 30 cal FMJ.
Tough times breed strong people; Strong people create good times; Good times breed weak people; Weak people create tough times
Severed heads equal open minds!
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Dec 2009
  • Posts 1334
  • EE 100% (4)
USA NM, USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 8:33:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2012 8:48:14 AM EST by benw8887]
From the muzzle: I'd be curious to see these numbers ranged out.


Edit: Bigredxit, when you say "reach out", how far are we talking? Because I live in the west and a long shot here is 500-600 yards. And if you wanted to you could easily shot out to a thousand.
Owning an AR-15 has been a dream of mine, since I was a sperm in my dad's balls!
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Aug 2007
  • Posts 2
  • EE 100% (28)
USA AR, USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 12:31:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By benw8887:
If the 300 blackout is so great, (And I'm not knocking it, I'm starting to love it myself) Why hasn't the military switched over yet? If it's just a barrel and some retooling of the ammo factory? Besides the obvious, of a President who hates our military and is cutting defense spending? Or is that it?


I live in Little Rock, Remington is right down the street. A rem employee (not janitor) told me that our boys have been using in Afghanistan with 220 grain subsonics with 9" uppers and suppressors to clear rooms since early 2011.

In fact, I found his e-mail: "They have been using the subsonic round with it in Afghanistan for urban house entry. Quiet and with the ACC suppressor there is practically no flash. I want one real bad. ACC is part of Remington Defense."


Basic
Offline
  • Joined Sep 2007
  • Posts 720
  • EE 100% (11)
USA FL, USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 12:34:00 PM EST
My opinion is that is is so popular right now because its the latest new hot thing.
You can even find Savage prefit bolt action barrels on the shelf for 300 blk.

The 6.5G was very hot at one time as was the 6.8 spc.

I think the 300 blk with a 16" bbl would be fine for hunting out to 150 yards but if I were using it for hunting I would definitely loading the new barnes 110 gr tac TX bullet hot.

The 6.8 is probably a better deer and hog round. 6.5 G too but does better with a longer barrel.
Nothing wrong with the 7.62x39 either if you can get it to feed reliably.

I have hunted with the 7.62x39, 6.5G and 6.8 spc and nothing wrong with any of them really.

Still all these 2.25" mag length cartridges are a bit limited compared to a 308 based shell or 30-06 etc for hunting especially with longer bullets.

Dont know much about the 30AR except what I have read.

The 300 OSSM should out pace them all but will still be limited in bullet length.

One of the really great bullets in 30 cal is the 208 gr amax, but too long for an AR.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Posts 889
  • EE 100% (44)
USA NC, USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 1:09:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By ncorry:
Originally Posted By benw8887:
If the 300 blackout is so great, (And I'm not knocking it, I'm starting to love it myself) Why hasn't the military switched over yet? If it's just a barrel and some retooling of the ammo factory? Besides the obvious, of a President who hates our military and is cutting defense spending? Or is that it?


I live in Little Rock, Remington is right down the street. A rem employee (not janitor) told me that our boys have been using in Afghanistan with 220 grain subsonics with 9" uppers and suppressors to clear rooms since early 2011.

In fact, I found his e-mail: "They have been using the subsonic round with it in Afghanistan for urban house entry. Quiet and with the ACC suppressor there is practically no flash. I want one real bad. ACC is part of Remington Defense."



That rem employee wasn't Silvers was it? If the Mil changes to anything, it won't be the WTF, not enough power or distance. A heavy 5.56 projectile produces the same if not better results and no barrel change or funky case reforming needed.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Posts 36
  • EE 100% (36)
USA PA, USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 3:11:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By benw8887:
From the muzzle: I'd be curious to see these numbers ranged out.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j355/benw8887/300-chart2.jpg

Edit: Bigredxit, when you say "reach out", how far are we talking? Because I live in the west and a long shot here is 500-600 yards. And if you wanted to you could easily shot out to a thousand.


When I say "reach out" I mean the 5.56 round has a longer effective range. The 300 blkout is designed for close to mid range engagement, whereas the 5.56 round is more effective at "reaching out" and smacking a BG. That make sense? I dont know what you mean by you living out west. If you are referring to hunting out west with the 300 blkout at ranges of 500-600 yards you would be the first person I have heard of that would consider that an ethical shot.

Severed heads equal open minds!
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Dec 2009
  • Posts 1338
  • EE 100% (4)
USA NM, USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 4:39:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigredxlt:
Originally Posted By benw8887:
From the muzzle: I'd be curious to see these numbers ranged out.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j355/benw8887/300-chart2.jpg

Edit: Bigredxit, when you say "reach out", how far are we talking? Because I live in the west and a long shot here is 500-600 yards. And if you wanted to you could easily shot out to a thousand.


When I say "reach out" I mean the 5.56 round has a longer effective range. The 300 blkout is designed for close to mid range engagement, whereas the 5.56 round is more effective at "reaching out" and smacking a BG. That make sense? I dont know what you mean by you living out west. If you are referring to hunting out west with the 300 blkout at ranges of 500-600 yards you would be the first person I have heard of that would consider that an ethical shot.


No, no, I just recently stopped using .338 win mag for hunting (you can hunt anything with that round), but I'm not a young buck stud anymore, so I'm switching to .308 win. I just wanted to know what you meant by "reach out", some people from back east aren't aware of how much "space" we have out here, so I was just making sure we were on the same page about the meaning of "far". I don't own a 300 blk, so I was just curious what the effective range of the blackout was. Because it seems "on par" with 6.5, 6.8 and 5.56 at the muzzle anyway. I know it takes less powder then the 5.56 and with a bigger bullet, it drops off faster, I guess that makes sense.
Owning an AR-15 has been a dream of mine, since I was a sperm in my dad's balls!
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Posts 892
  • EE 100% (44)
USA NC, USA
Link Posted: 3/15/2012 5:24:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By benw8887:
I don't own a 300 blk, so I was just curious what the effective range of the blackout was. Because it seems "on par" with 6.5, 6.8 and 5.56 at the muzzle anyway.


And after a few feet of that muzzle is where it starts to lose. The WTF is at most a 200yd hunting round, supersonic. Shooting subs, maybe 150. If you want to punch paper, I'm sure you could go out further but drop and wind kills it. There are just better choices out there unless you want to shoot surpressed subs out of a SBR. Take a rig setup for that and the WTF does well.

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top