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W88
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Posted: 3/3/2012 9:26:14 PM
I've been in and out of the AR world, mostly out and no offense intended here.

I've been puzzled about all the excitement over the 300 Blackout/300 Whisper. I just don't see what it's all about. The Blackout is 300 fps slower than a 7.62x39 and I do understand the feed issues/magazines.

The 30 AR hasn't been setting sales records despite it's ballistic superiority. The 30 AR is 700 fps faster than the Blackout, dramatically more potent.

I have a Remington R-15, 30 AR caliber coming in next week. I talked to a CSR at Remington last week. He said Remington isn't giving up on the round, is backlogged on some of the ammo varieties and will be making brass in the fall for reloaders. 300 rds of factory ammo will suffice till the RCBS dies come in. Don
TylerB42
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Posted: 3/3/2012 10:20:12 PM
[Last Edit: 3/3/2012 10:20:44 PM by TylerB42]
The 300 Blk responds very well to suppression and utilizes all the same components of a 5.56 AR15 (less the barrel). The 30AR has little industry backing and utilizes non standard (AR15) parts, I would guess they are very similar suppressed..

Brass costs, non-proprietary parts and industry backing are the reason for the hype.

The ability to have a suppressed platform quieter than an MP5-SD while doing all the above...is also advantageous

*not a 300 owner...but will be
madmathew
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Posted: 3/3/2012 10:34:21 PM
300BLK for suppressor fun, 30 RAR for deer hunting.
No crime is so great as daring to excel. -Winston Churchill
Tim_W
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Posted: 3/4/2012 11:34:56 AM
Originally Posted By W88:
I've been in and out of the AR world, mostly out and no offense intended here.

I've been puzzled about all the excitement over the 300 Blackout/300 Whisper. I just don't see what it's all about. The Blackout is 300 fps slower than a 7.62x39 and I do understand the feed issues/magazines.

The 30 AR hasn't been setting sales records despite it's ballistic superiority. The 30 AR is 700 fps faster than the Blackout, dramatically more potent.

I have a Remington R-15, 30 AR caliber coming in next week. I talked to a CSR at Remington last week. He said Remington isn't giving up on the round, is backlogged on some of the ammo varieties and will be making brass in the fall for reloaders. 300 rds of factory ammo will suffice till the RCBS dies come in. Don


Agree, the 300 may be a good replacement for the HK MP5K 9mm subsonic but it is not a good choice for hunting unless it's intended use is poaching.
The 30 RAR should perform well for hunting.

ThisisSpinalTap
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Posted: 3/4/2012 12:03:14 PM
it is not a good choice for hunting unless it's intended use is poaching.
The 30 RAR should perform well for hunting.



I don't understand the thinking here. I can only conclude that you believe that a suppressed rifle is only going to used for something illegal. This is the kind of thought process that leads to gun bans and magazine bans –– "why do you need an semi-automatic rifle, why do you need a 20 or 30 round magazine, etc". If you really are concerned about silent hunting, consider bows and crossbows.

W88
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Posted: 3/4/2012 2:25:01 PM
Since I'm a newbie here, I don't want to create false impressions of my attitudes. I have nothing against suppressors, quite the contrary, I think they're really neat and regular people, not just LE and military, should be able to use them. I simply don't have a gun I want to suppress at this time, nor do I want to pay for the suppressor and tax stamp whatever.

So, my comment wasn't a putdown of the .300 Blackout for what it is intended, just a comment that there are much more potent rounds available for the AR-15 platform that I, as somewhat of a power junkie, prefer.

Speaking of suppressors, a friend of mine has a big can on a Steyr bolt in .308. I was absolutely STUNNED at how quiet it is. Subjectively, it seemed a lot quieter than a .22LR semi auto rifle. I felt that there was absolutely no reason to wear hearing protection and this comes from someone who wears double ear protection on everything but a .22LR rifle. Don
glk34
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Posted: 3/4/2012 3:52:19 PM
If your shots are 150 yards or under the blk does very good. Much farther and you will be fast calculating drop. Ive killed a couple pigs and 4 deer and a coyote in the last 2 seasons with my 16" barrel. Now that my 8" is ready Im going to hunt with it. What I really have found from experience of shooting at live animals is they cant locate the shot and Ive had a coyote and 2 deer run right to me after shooting. Its great! I use Hornady SST 150 grain bullets to hunt with. And TTSX's in 130 grain.
garyd
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Posted: 3/4/2012 4:11:36 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2012 4:15:59 PM by garyd]
Originally Posted By Tim_W:

Agree, the 300 may be a good replacement for the HK MP5K 9mm subsonic but it is not a good choice for hunting unless it's intended use is poaching.



I do not want to sound insulting but that statement is completely incorrect and insulting. So shooting deer quietly is poaching. Does that include crossbow and bow hunters?

I or my daughter have killed 8 deer with 300 blackout.
I have also killed 2 foxes, a couple rabbits a few squirrels and a couple of wild dogs all excellent results

While I own a suppressor I cannot use it here in North Carolina for hunting YET? But there are some states that you can use one. For instance Virginia.
But notice all loadings but the one my Daughter shot were subsonic.

1st deer 2010 season 6 pointer missing an antler, neck shot drooped on the spot
178gr Amax
935fps






2nd Deer 2010 season 6 pointer did not get good pics of this one. Vitals shot bullet tumbled on exit. Made it 30 yds


entrance


Exit


Daughter took this one this year
180gr Prototype low velocity expander
1475fps


Exit wound

did a lot internal damage made it less than 50 yds

1st one for me this past season
200gr Prototype low velocity expander
935fps


entrance


found bullet just under skin on other side hit bone the whole way


serious spine damage


2nd one this past season


Entrance


Exit


Lungs


3rd one I actually thought was a large Doe, but ended up being a descent size button buck.

Right at the base of the neck and back. dropped where he was. he was still breathing a little when I got to him so finished him with my .22 1911 top of head.


recovered bullet in left shoulder.


4th one was another small doe a pair came in so I lined up one and took her in the shoulder. she ran off about 30yds and was dead.


Double lung shot
Entrance


Exit


Now the funny part was when I shot the other one of course took off the opposite direction then the one I shot. When I got to where I shot her I found this on the ground:

I was confused because I new where I had aimed and she was walking slowly when I took the shot, plus there was a blood trail. So I followed the blood and there she was. In just that few minutes, I had forgotten about the tail until I drug her back to where I shot her and then saw the tail on the ground again. I looked at her tail and the whole thing was there. I realized that as she was walking she had walked in front of the other one and when I took the shot the bullet went thru and then clipped off the tail of the other one.

Last one was a mercy kill spike buck came in limping and only one antler.


His back leg looked like it had been hit with a shotgun pellet. bone was shattered and had started to heal all messed up. wound was infected. the other antler which I thought maybe had broken off had actually never started growing. We have hunters that run dogs in this county and this is seen a lot. guy tries taking a shot at a running deer with his 12 gauge and all he does is wound it . I am not a fan of dog runners.

All in all a successful year. All six deer shot with .300 blackout recovered and processed. Meat in freezer and looking forward to next year.

But as some people keep posting the .300 blackout is not a good round for deer hunting So must be a fluke.
W88
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Posted: 3/4/2012 5:02:24 PM
Originally Posted By glk34:
If your shots are 150 yards or under the blk does very good. Much farther and you will be fast calculating drop. Ive killed a couple pigs and 4 deer and a coyote in the last 2 seasons with my 16" barrel. Now that my 8" is ready Im going to hunt with it. What I really have found from experience of shooting at live animals is they cant locate the shot and Ive had a coyote and 2 deer run right to me after shooting. Its great! I use Hornady SST 150 grain bullets to hunt with. And TTSX's in 130 grain.


That's funny. I've heard similar comments that game animals don't get a line on where the shot is coming from. Happy hunting! Don
QuietRiot11
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Posted: 3/4/2012 6:13:50 PM
Originally Posted By Tim_W:
Agree, the 300 may be a good replacement for the HK MP5K 9mm subsonic but it is not a good choice for hunting unless it's intended use is poaching.


Wow. That is about as uninformed a response as I've seen on so many levels.
Tim_W
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Posted: 3/4/2012 9:14:35 PM
Originally Posted By QuietRiot11:
Originally Posted By Tim_W:
Agree, the 300 may be a good replacement for the HK MP5K 9mm subsonic but it is not a good choice for hunting unless it's intended use is poaching.


Wow. That is about as uninformed a response as I've seen on so many levels.

Actually a foreign country is looking to replace their MP5Ks.
And for the second part hunters aren't the only ones using game cams, big suppressors show up pretty clear.

Fritzcat
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Posted: 3/4/2012 9:15:54 PM
This pic shows sub-sonic damage from my 300 WTF, using a YHM 9mm XL can, I got 3 hogs in this ambush.
346ci
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Posted: 3/5/2012 12:29:53 AM
Originally Posted By W88:
I just don't see what it's all about. The Blackout is 300 fps slower than a 7.62x39 and I do understand the feed issues/magazines.


The 300 is tacticool and is the "thing" to have right now. I'd steer away from it and anything else from freedom group. The 30AR would be a much better choice for hunting but is really lacking support. If either one shows signs of less profit, you will see them dropped quick. I'd stick with a proven preformer like the 6.5 or 6.8.
sandblaster
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Posted: 3/5/2012 4:15:27 AM
The .300 BLK (AAC) will be more popular in the future that the 6.5 and 6.8 combined, difference in cartridges, different results, efficiency is the bottom line.
"Everybody's gotta die sometime Red"
sandblaster
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Posted: 3/5/2012 4:17:33 AM
Originally Posted By Fritzcat:
This pic shows sub-sonic damage from my 300 WTF, using a YHM 9mm XL can, I got 3 hogs in this ambush.http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x456/Fritzcat/Picture071.jpg


Nice, too bad the .300 BLK is not a good hunting cartridge.

"Everybody's gotta die sometime Red"
346ci
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Posted: 3/5/2012 6:32:14 AM
Originally Posted By sandblaster:
The .300 BLK (AAC) will be more popular in the future that the 6.5 and 6.8 combined, difference in cartridges, different results, efficiency is the bottom line.


As long as the mall ninjas are out and about, you are correct. However, the WTF and efficiency don't go together. Once those types see it has not advantages worth twice the price over a heavy 5.56, it will fizzle out.
Fritzcat
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Posted: 3/5/2012 7:11:31 AM
The 300 WTF is just a toy to me, to hunt pigs suppressed. I now use one of my 458 Socoms for suppressed hog hunting and there is no comparisom. For super-sonic, I grab my AR47, 762x39. My go to SHTF gun will always be a 5.56.
DocGKR
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Posted: 3/11/2012 3:06:02 AM
[Last Edit: 3/11/2012 3:06:33 AM by DocGKR]
Interesting comments...

I might not know as much about terminal ballistics as some of you seem to, but the .300 BLK is very versatile as it can do the same job as well or better than suppressed MP5's, 5.56 mm SBR's, and AK47's. External and terminal ballistics are equal to or better than the well proven 7.62x39mm. With barrier blind projectiles, 300 BLK is an ideal caliber for both Patrol and Tactical LE use, as it offers outstanding terminal performance and intermediate barrier capability in the critical 0-100m range and remains capable out to 300m or so. With the advent of barrier blind loads like the Barnes 110 gr Tac-TX and upcoming bonded loads like the Rem CLUB, the .300 BLK becomes an outstanding choice for hunting up to med game and can be used in any hunting situation that is appropriate for lighter .30-30 loads.
PeaShooter
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Posted: 3/11/2012 3:21:17 AM
Good grief! The appeal is using a 30 cal bullet with the case cut down and re sized for the .30 is whats cool.
And using my existing mags with just a new set of dies is why I like it.

Suppressed this and that isnt the point. Poaching? Come on? breaking the law is just that. You deserve to get busted with what ever your using?
For the shooting reloading enthusiast
like myself?
I like the simplicity of using heavier bullets in an existing platform.
makintrax73
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Posted: 3/11/2012 4:51:13 PM
Originally Posted By DocGKR:
Interesting comments...

I might not know as much about terminal ballistics as some of you seem to, but the .300 BLK is very versatile as it can do the same job as well or better than suppressed MP5's, 5.56 mm SBR's, and AK47's. External and terminal ballistics are equal to or better than the well proven 7.62x39mm. With barrier blind projectiles, 300 BLK is an ideal caliber for both Patrol and Tactical LE use, as it offers outstanding terminal performance and intermediate barrier capability in the critical 0-100m range and remains capable out to 300m or so. With the advent of barrier blind loads like the Barnes 110 gr Tac-TX and upcoming bonded loads like the Rem CLUB, the .300 BLK becomes an outstanding choice for hunting up to med game and can be used in any hunting situation that is appropriate for lighter .30-30 loads.


LOL! Doc why would they want to your word for it after your years of scientific research on the subject if it doesn't match what they know to be true because they read it on the errornet?

Thanks for all the great info BTW, and I look forward to hopefully seeing some 300blk ammo comparisons on the other site some day soon.
Rich_V
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Posted: 3/11/2012 5:46:35 PM
Looks like the 300 BLK detractors "aint no good for huntin 'n killin" just got owned by the the good Doctor of terminal ballistics.
Tough times breed strong people; Strong people create good times; Good times breed weak people; Weak people create tough times
JKrammes
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Posted: 3/11/2012 9:41:41 PM
Originally Posted By sandblaster:
The .300 BLK (AAC) will be more popular in the future that the 6.5 and 6.8 combined, difference in cartridges, different results, efficiency is the bottom line.


I will second this comment... I read somehwere (I can't remember where) that the 300BLK has sold more rounds in one year than the 6.8 did in 4.

Everyone seems to only talk about the 300BLK in a subsonic roll. Standard ammo is VERY leatheal out to 300 yrds out of a 9" barrel. How often does anyone really take game past 300 yrds? I know it has been done and is very possible and just fine to do that, but how often?

Jk
ritepath
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Posted: 3/11/2012 10:06:40 PM
[Last Edit: 3/11/2012 10:11:37 PM by ritepath]
Considering my 6yo son killed a Whitetail two years ago with a 9mm Sub2000, I believe the 300blk will do a pretty good job on deer/coyotes. He killed one this past season with his new 7mm08 at 7 years of age. Both deer were taken at distances of less than 30 yards (easy bow range) I hope to have my 300 built by deer season. I'll be leaving the 270BAR, 308, 223's, 22-250 and 7mm08 in the safe for deer season. Considering in 30 years of deer hunting the longest kill I've pulled off was 226 yards (deer not turkey) I figure the blk should do a fine job.

GACKER1143
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Posted: 3/11/2012 11:02:07 PM
[Last Edit: 3/12/2012 12:10:48 AM by GACKER1143]
W88
Well bud I'll take my 16" Carbine 300 blk over your 22" R15 any day. How much does the R15 weight fully loaded. My Carbines just over 6 lbs. That R15 has to be close to 8 lbs. And with a shorter barrel your getting just about the same velocity as my 300blk. I can shoot alot heavier bullets as well yours tops out at 150gr. At a wopping 2500 fps wow impressive-not! Question why is the R15 limited to only four round mag?
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Posted: 3/11/2012 11:55:43 PM
9" barrel, suppressed, subsonic. used the same bolt and mags as a 5.56 AR. There is a lot to love.

It is just a matter of time until someone has a 220+gr projectile that will reliably expand at 1000 fps making it one of the most sought after rounds for hunting They make them for .45s so they will be here for the 300 sooner than some of y'all think.

Then take that same 9" barrel and can and put a 110gr bullet in it and you have a weapon in your hand that is going to give you a pretty good advantage inside your home if you need to take on a BG

The poaching thing is just a liberal uneducated argument. Suppressors are already used legally in a lot of places and we are about 99% sure even for all game animals and birds for this season coming up in Texas.
ARFCOM.....Time well wasted.

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

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Posted: 3/12/2012 10:52:09 AM
[Last Edit: 3/12/2012 10:52:39 AM by bigsapper]
Originally Posted By PeaShooter:
Suppressed this and that isnt the point. Poaching? Come on? breaking the law is just that. You deserve to get busted with


Lot's of herp-derp in that comment. TX is on the verge of approving suppressors for use while hunting game animals. TXPWD recently was overwhelmed by feedback during a comment period supporting this change to the regs.
BTW it's always been legal for non-game hunting. If I hunt at night am I poaching?

A lot of other states allow it too.

ETA: And thanks for the input Doc.
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