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bullet225ho
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Posted: 10/10/2011 8:49:59 PM
Hey folks.

I stopped by a gun shop here in GA a couple of weeks ago and they had an upper for sale in this caliber.

It appears to be a 7.62x39 round that has been stretched and necked up to 30 cal.

the round uses a 7.62x39 bolt but the brass is a bit longer than the x39 and straight walled.

The company making the round/upper is Arrow Arms out of Macon GA. It seems they have been in the AR game for a while.

They show ballistics on there website that look very interesting to say the least.

At the moment the ammo is proprietary to them. They do offer Hornady dies for the round.

My question is.......Has anyone used a variant of this round? I know that I've seen the 30ARK but not sure if I've seen any others out there based off of the 6.5 case.

They are using 6.5 magazines as one is supplied with the upper as well as a new buffer spring.

site is www.arrowarms.net

johnreilly
Oh No Godzilla!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted: 10/10/2011 9:01:25 PM
Are you associated with Arrow Arms by chance? New member, first post, amazing new round?
Remember the Cold War. Screw the Russians!
jh1990
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Posted: 10/10/2011 9:11:34 PM
Originally Posted By johnreilly:
Are you associated with Arrow Arms by chance? New member, first post, amazing new round?


+1
BruceLeroy
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Posted: 10/10/2011 9:13:40 PM
And waiting... and waiting... no reply yet? Come on guy.
Out of a hundred men, ten shouldn’t be there and 80 are just targets. Nine are the real fighters, and we are thankful for them because they make the battle. But the one, the one is a warrior and he brings the others back-Heraclites
bullet225ho
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Posted: 10/10/2011 9:22:42 PM
Not related in any way

I'm an average joe that likes to shoot his AR and wanting to use it for hunting.

My hangup is not so much on ammo as I reload. It's on the real world ballistics of the round.

I can't get much info from dealers here locally about case sizing and stuff like that.

I'm just trying to find out what it was derived from and make brass and how well these variants have performed for folks that have reamers and into wildcating.

The upper that I have my eye on can be had for a very good price and I'm just looking for a comparison....that's all
johnreilly
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Posted: 10/10/2011 9:23:38 PM
[Last Edit: 10/10/2011 9:24:41 PM by johnreilly]
Oh and BTW. The only way I would believe your claimed velocities is if I were sitting in front of the chronograph. With the bolt face thrust of a 7.62x39 bolt you are sure to have problems with premature wear and failure at those speeds.
Remember the Cold War. Screw the Russians!
ziarifleman
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Posted: 10/10/2011 9:24:47 PM
A 7.62x39 would have to be necked DOWN to accept a .308" bullet.
So I think the world will come to an end amid the general applause from all the wits who believe that it is a joke.

- Søren Kierkegaard
bullet225ho
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Posted: 10/10/2011 9:28:14 PM
These are NOT my claimed velocities.

I'm just asking if this seems on par with other folks that have made this type of round. I am in know way in with Arrow.

and again. my mistake as you would have to neck down a x39
bullet225ho
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Posted: 10/10/2011 9:41:12 PM
My question from this stems from what many others are trying to achieve. A larger round in AR platform for taking deer, hogs, bear, elk...whatever.

I have a M&P 15. I'm looking for an upper (complete or to build) that is in a larger round.

My internet searches started with the 6.8spc and then I ran across the DTECH and the round that I'd really like is the 358 WSSM. of coarse brass and such is still an issue and I'm not finding any real world load data or ballistics with the round. I have not tried to call Mike at DTECH yet. I may make that call in the future but cost is also a factor. If I can get a 30 cal locally that is half the price as a DTECH model and get good results then it is a viable option.
dudeinmo
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Posted: 10/10/2011 9:50:56 PM
Love the high school level website too.
Paps-Zapf
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Posted: 10/10/2011 10:07:57 PM
Originally Posted By dudeinmo:
Love the high school level website too.


You are being generous! It is grade school level now!
bullet225ho
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Posted: 10/10/2011 11:10:57 PM
grade school level or not...........does this seem viable as a round to spend 600 bucks on an upper for big game?

ziarifleman
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Posted: 10/10/2011 11:14:19 PM
[Last Edit: 10/10/2011 11:14:57 PM by ziarifleman]
I'm pretty sure that's a .30 Grendel, and I will echo those saying their velocity claims are marginally insane.

The .30 Grendel is an okay round, about equivalent to a .30-30.
So I think the world will come to an end amid the general applause from all the wits who believe that it is a joke.

- Søren Kierkegaard
hunter121
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Posted: 10/10/2011 11:42:14 PM
If I was looking to kill big game with a 30cal AR upper I think I would get a 300ossm upper. But I already have a 243wssm upper so I am biased slightly.
45-Seventy
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Posted: 10/11/2011 12:20:16 AM
Throwing out the rather optimistic velocity claims made by these folks, what is this round supposed to do that other, existing rounds do not?
bullet225ho
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Posted: 10/11/2011 12:29:27 AM
I'm not sure what the round is supposed to do.

I'm looking for a larger round for the AR and this is local

I'd much rather have a DTECH 358 if it was readally available locally and had Die's to go with it.

the 308 arrow is right here with Hornady dies in front of me.

I just dont want to waist 600 bucks on an upper that may never make it.

Gamma762
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Posted: 10/11/2011 1:35:54 AM
[Last Edit: 10/11/2011 1:40:59 AM by Gamma762]
Originally Posted By bullet225ho:
I just dont want to waist 600 bucks on an upper that may never make it.

Then don't buy some local shop's new wonder wildcat cartridge.

Maybe look for something supported by large manufacturers, with factory ammo, etc. If you're dedicated to 30 caliber, maybe take a look at the 30 Rem AR.
Originally Posted By bullet225ho:
does this seem viable as a round to spend 600 bucks on an upper for big game?

Define "big game". What I'd call big game I would not be hunting with anything shot from an AR15 type rifle. If you're talking about deer or small to medium size feral hogs, or the like, then there are many possibilities.
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MartytW
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Posted: 10/11/2011 10:15:59 AM
What will ... er... does.. it use for magazines?

Note that Kurt chose his cartridge dimensions for good reasons, that pesky front rib tends to get in the way. If you stretch that x39 case too long, you run into two problems: 1) the cases will start hitting the rib, causing challenges with feeding, stacking, etc. 2) most .308 bullet are intended for the .308 Win or .30-06. Both allow a generous amount of bullet out in front of the case. Try to use those bullets in the restrictions of the AR magazine and there is a good chance that you will seat them too deep. This then means you end up limited in your bullet selection (note the very long discussion on the .25-223 versus .25x40, as well as the .25-45 Sharps regarding bullet seating).

Ballistically it sounds like the 7.62x45 from the Czechs (old VZ round), which really does not have much over the 7.62x39. For a novelty, sure, buy it. For "big game", buy either a big rifle (.308 platform) or one of the larger rounds that has proven capable of taking large game (there are 3 main calibers out currently, with more in the works apparently)
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GACopGolfer
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Posted: 10/11/2011 10:49:52 AM
The shop didn't happen to be A-Z in Macon, was it? At one time they were supposed to be Arrow's sole distributorship. Was Larry the source of your information?
futuremodal
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Posted: 10/11/2011 8:53:49 PM

Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
A 7.62x39 would have to be necked DOWN to accept a .308" bullet.


Not necessarily. I heard the MFS 7.62x39 ammo uses .308 bullets rather than .310.

But yeah, it does beg a or two per the OP's opening statement......
And all the powers of darkness tremble at what they just heard .......
tony549
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Posted: 10/11/2011 10:49:07 PM
I found this on the 30 Grendel (AKA 30 Major):
http://oa2.org/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=11345

It was apparently designed to make major power factor for competition; 125 gr bullet @ ~2600 ft/s. It is capable of better performance in bolt actions or if AR15 performance's big bolt and barrel extension are used for an AR15 upper.
bullet225ho
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Posted: 10/12/2011 12:11:15 AM
[Last Edit: 10/12/2011 12:28:14 AM by bullet225ho]
I went to A-Z to ask about the round.

He didn't have any Arrow items in his shop. The guy at A-Z said he could get Arrow's stuff but didn't have anything on hand.

He was the one that stated that the case was slightly longer than a 7.62x39.

I also went to Ingleside Arms and they did have a complete AR in the 308 Arrow. They stated they would seperate the upper and sell it.

They also showed me a 308 Arrow decked out in full night vision optics that they use for hog eratication in mid and south GA.

They loved the round and said that it's head and shoulders above the 6.8 spc.

Problem is they are asking 100 more for an upper than a store about an hour south of me.

I have been to Chucks (they have sold 2 uppers and both owners loved them....but nothing in stock....Ammo included)
A-Z
Arvins

All three of these stores are listed as dealers...but none have anything in stock. They all know of the new round and state...we can have it for you in one day.

I originally stumbled across this round in McCrea GA..... 3 Rivers Outdoors. Very small shop and mostly used guns. But he had a complete upper for sale and a good selection of ammo. The only reason I went in there is I was in between appointments from McCrea and Hazelhurst.....Had an hour to kill and saw the sign and parked and went in.

I came back home and started researching and info is limited to none on this round. So I came on here to try and get some info.

foreman2000
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Posted: 10/12/2011 2:03:17 AM
Why not just get a 300 black and be done with the bullshit and than you can order all the ammo you want
ziarifleman
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Posted: 10/12/2011 2:04:33 AM
Originally Posted By foreman2000:
Why not just get a 300 black and be done with the bullshit and than you can order all the ammo you want


So I think the world will come to an end amid the general applause from all the wits who believe that it is a joke.

- Søren Kierkegaard
SafetyFirst
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Posted: 10/12/2011 11:25:50 AM
I shop at both A-Z Guns and Ingleside Gun works. These two shops were most likely the first to carry Arrow Arms products. Per Larry at A-Z and Tim at Ingleside the buyers have all been happy with their Arrow purchase. The reason given for the low inventory at both shops is due to sales dropping off in general, so it seems they are keeping inventory low on everything. As to whether or not to purchase that particular caliber upper, that really comes down to whether or not you are confident and comfortable with it. I am acquainted with Ron who is the owner of Arrow Arms, I see him at both shops frequently. I have not purchased an Arrow Arms product, so I can not give a personal recommendation of his products, but as of this date I know of no unhappy customers.
CORNHOLIO1
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Posted: 10/12/2011 12:14:48 PM
Sounds like a BS round to me. They can't even spell on their webpage.
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