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ponykilr
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Posted: 11/22/2010 4:34:11 PM
[Last Edit: 11/22/2010 4:38:40 PM by ponykilr]

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
15 Minute AR Trigger Job

$0.50 Trigger job

I wanted to get a better trigger for my .308AR. It had the factory GI trigger and was long and gritty. I investigated replacements and being pretty poor, I decided $200 for a trigger was not gonna fly. I have sent some triggers to Bill Springfield a few times before and they come back much improved. Bill's prices are reasonable and his triggers are reliable. They are not however, even close to an aftermarket trigger. They are a safe and great service trigger.

I have done a considerable amount of work on AK triggers, and AR triggers are similar but smaller. After reading around the net, I found a couple of links that seem to make sense. I used them both and I have now what can only be described as a wonderful trigger. None of the engagement surfaces was touched except for a little metal polish as per the "15 Minute Trigger Job", no stoning or changing angles. You want the positive angle relationship between the hammer and trigger to stay like it is. This keeps the trigger from bouncing off the hammer if the weapon is dropped or the butt struck hard against something. The way you can understand the positive angle, is to watch your hammer when you pull the trigger, the hammer moves slightly rearward before release against spring pressure. This is a good thing.

I have had some rifles with great triggers, my Tikka was fantastic. This trigger needs slightly more pressure than the Tikka, but is just as crisp and just as smooth. The trigger has as close to zero creep as I have ever felt on a semi-auto, think great 10/22 trigger. It is 100% safe, I beat the crap out of it trying to make the hammer fall and it held perfectly. My safety is fitted very tightly, and there is zero trigger movement when it is on. In other words, it ain't gonna fire unless I pull the trigger with the safety off...just like it should be.

If you want a crisp service trigger with about a 5-6 pound pull, leave the springs alone and just remove the creep with the second link's instructions. Leave a little creep and you will have a trigger that will work great for duty or a defense rifle. I use my rifle for hunting and wanted a super crisp, no creep trigger with about 3-4 pound release....and that is exactly what I have,



A few notes about what I did, and what I found.

The "15 Minute Practical Trigger Job" from the first link is very easy to do, and reduced the pull weight significantly. I do not have a trigger guage, but I would say it cut the trigger pull weight 30-40%. It is almost fool proof and makes the trigger way easier to manage. This does not do anything for take up or creep.

The "$0.50 AR trigger job" is more involved and you need a Dremal, bench grinder or die grinder. It takes the creep out of your trigger. Read the article several times until you understand it well.

Everything is pretty simple but I ran into a few small problems.

First, GO SUPER SLOW grinding on the back of the hammer to fit the safety. Test fit it often. If you take slightly too much, the trigger will release the hammer when the safety is on. I don't have to tell you that this is a bad thing. I took too much off not thinking about how the safety works, and ended up having to put a little weld on it and re-fit it. Not a huge deal, unless you do not have a welder at home. This is why I say go really slow, and don't rush it.

My DPMS used a 1/4 fine thread set screw instead of a standard 1/4x20 pitch. I had to make one from a bolt, and slot the end for a screw driver. It worked fine, but finding out which thread yours has and buying the correct set screw is the way to go.

If your disconnecter touches your hammer when you push it back to cock it(finger off trigger), you will need to turn the set screw out slightly until the hammer moves freely.

When you are adjusting your set screw to get the best pull and safe engagement, have the safety in place.

1/2 turn back from hammer release was not quite enough engagement for my taste(remember, mine is a fine thread and moves less per revolution), and it also made my hammer rub the disconnecter as described above. 3/4 turn was about right, YMMV.

Give it a try if you have a terrible stock trigger, the worst that can happen is you have to buy another stock trigger assy, and they are really cheap. Go slow, and think, and you could have a really great trigger for under a dollar.

I hope it goes without saying, that triggers are important, and a malfunctioning one is dangerous. Please verify all is safe and working before you use the weapon.
If you are not mechanically minded and this scares the bejeebers out of you, just don't do it. If you are pretty handy and do most of your own work, go for it. -Paul
Redtazdog
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Posted: 11/22/2010 4:44:53 PM
All of these trigger group mods can be found here on the forums too
CTbuilder1
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Posted: 11/22/2010 5:04:52 PM
Originally Posted By ponykilr:
15 Minute AR Trigger Job

$0.50 Trigger job

I wanted to get a better trigger for my .308AR. It had the factory GI trigger and was long and gritty. I investigated replacements and being pretty poor, I decided $200 for a trigger was not gonna fly. I have sent some triggers to Bill Springfield a few times before and they come back much improved. Bill's prices are reasonable and his triggers are reliable. They are not however, even close to an aftermarket trigger. They are a safe and great service trigger.

I have done a considerable amount of work on AK triggers, and AR triggers are similar but smaller. After reading around the net, I found a couple of links that seem to make sense. I used them both and I have now what can only be described as a wonderful trigger. None of the engagement surfaces was touched except for a little metal polish as per the "15 Minute Trigger Job", no stoning or changing angles. You want the positive angle relationship between the hammer and trigger to stay like it is. This keeps the trigger from bouncing off the hammer if the weapon is dropped or the butt struck hard against something. The way you can understand the positive angle, is to watch your hammer when you pull the trigger, the hammer moves slightly rearward before release against spring pressure. This is a good thing.

I have had some rifles with great triggers, my Tikka was fantastic. This trigger needs slightly more pressure than the Tikka, but is just as crisp and just as smooth. The trigger has as close to zero creep as I have ever felt on a semi-auto, think great 10/22 trigger. It is 100% safe, I beat the crap out of it trying to make the hammer fall and it held perfectly. My safety is fitted very tightly, and there is zero trigger movement when it is on. In other words, it ain't gonna fire unless I pull the trigger with the safety off...just like it should be.

If you want a crisp service trigger with about a 5-6 pound pull, leave the springs alone and just remove the creep with the second link's instructions. Leave a little creep and you will have a trigger that will work great for duty or a defense rifle. I use my rifle for hunting and wanted a super crisp, no creep trigger with about 3-4 pound release....and that is exactly what I have,



If you want a trigger that is great for a duty or service rifle leave the stock one alone or get something like a Geissele. Removing material from a part that is only serfaced hardened is never a great idea. For hunting or plinking - have it it. But the trigger will end up failing sooner than a stcok one.
ponykilr
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Posted: 11/22/2010 5:23:19 PM
[Last Edit: 11/22/2010 5:24:52 PM by ponykilr]
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By ponykilr:
15 Minute AR Trigger Job

$0.50 Trigger job

I wanted to get a better trigger for my .308AR. It had the factory GI trigger and was long and gritty. I investigated replacements and being pretty poor, I decided $200 for a trigger was not gonna fly. I have sent some triggers to Bill Springfield a few times before and they come back much improved. Bill's prices are reasonable and his triggers are reliable. They are not however, even close to an aftermarket trigger. They are a safe and great service trigger.

I have done a considerable amount of work on AK triggers, and AR triggers are similar but smaller. After reading around the net, I found a couple of links that seem to make sense. I used them both and I have now what can only be described as a wonderful trigger. None of the engagement surfaces was touched except for a little metal polish as per the "15 Minute Trigger Job", no stoning or changing angles. You want the positive angle relationship between the hammer and trigger to stay like it is. This keeps the trigger from bouncing off the hammer if the weapon is dropped or the butt struck hard against something. The way you can understand the positive angle, is to watch your hammer when you pull the trigger, the hammer moves slightly rearward before release against spring pressure. This is a good thing.

I have had some rifles with great triggers, my Tikka was fantastic. This trigger needs slightly more pressure than the Tikka, but is just as crisp and just as smooth. The trigger has as close to zero creep as I have ever felt on a semi-auto, think great 10/22 trigger. It is 100% safe, I beat the crap out of it trying to make the hammer fall and it held perfectly. My safety is fitted very tightly, and there is zero trigger movement when it is on. In other words, it ain't gonna fire unless I pull the trigger with the safety off...just like it should be.

If you want a crisp service trigger with about a 5-6 pound pull, leave the springs alone and just remove the creep with the second link's instructions. Leave a little creep and you will have a trigger that will work great for duty or a defense rifle. I use my rifle for hunting and wanted a super crisp, no creep trigger with about 3-4 pound release....and that is exactly what I have,



If you want a trigger that is great for a duty or service rifle leave the stock one alone or get something like a Geissele. Removing material from a part that is only serfaced hardened is never a great idea. For hunting or plinking - have it it. But the trigger will end up failing sooner than a stcok one.


If you had actually read what I posted, you would know that no material was removed from the engagement surfaces and it will not fail any faster than if I had left it alone.
CTbuilder1
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Posted: 11/22/2010 5:38:28 PM
Originally Posted By ponykilr:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By ponykilr:
15 Minute AR Trigger Job

$0.50 Trigger job

I wanted to get a better trigger for my .308AR. It had the factory GI trigger and was long and gritty. I investigated replacements and being pretty poor, I decided $200 for a trigger was not gonna fly. I have sent some triggers to Bill Springfield a few times before and they come back much improved. Bill's prices are reasonable and his triggers are reliable. They are not however, even close to an aftermarket trigger. They are a safe and great service trigger.

I have done a considerable amount of work on AK triggers, and AR triggers are similar but smaller. After reading around the net, I found a couple of links that seem to make sense. I used them both and I have now what can only be described as a wonderful trigger. None of the engagement surfaces was touched except for a little metal polish as per the "15 Minute Trigger Job", no stoning or changing angles. You want the positive angle relationship between the hammer and trigger to stay like it is. This keeps the trigger from bouncing off the hammer if the weapon is dropped or the butt struck hard against something. The way you can understand the positive angle, is to watch your hammer when you pull the trigger, the hammer moves slightly rearward before release against spring pressure. This is a good thing.

I have had some rifles with great triggers, my Tikka was fantastic. This trigger needs slightly more pressure than the Tikka, but is just as crisp and just as smooth. The trigger has as close to zero creep as I have ever felt on a semi-auto, think great 10/22 trigger. It is 100% safe, I beat the crap out of it trying to make the hammer fall and it held perfectly. My safety is fitted very tightly, and there is zero trigger movement when it is on. In other words, it ain't gonna fire unless I pull the trigger with the safety off...just like it should be.

If you want a crisp service trigger with about a 5-6 pound pull, leave the springs alone and just remove the creep with the second link's instructions. Leave a little creep and you will have a trigger that will work great for duty or a defense rifle. I use my rifle for hunting and wanted a super crisp, no creep trigger with about 3-4 pound release....and that is exactly what I have,



If you want a trigger that is great for a duty or service rifle leave the stock one alone or get something like a Geissele. Removing material from a part that is only serfaced hardened is never a great idea. For hunting or plinking - have it it. But the trigger will end up failing sooner than a stcok one.


If you had actually read what I posted, you would know that no material was removed from the engagement surfaces and it will not fail any faster than if I had left it alone.


Let me be more clear - For a service of duty rifle you shouldn't be doing any home mods to the trigger. Period. Even a Bill Springfield job isn't a great idea. For hunting or plinking, have at it.
ponykilr
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Posted: 11/22/2010 5:48:39 PM
[Last Edit: 11/22/2010 5:50:07 PM by ponykilr]


Then don't.
1811guy
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Posted: 11/24/2010 3:20:29 PM
I took a dremel and flitz to one of my AR triggers. The improvement was modest, but what really took out the creep was installing KNS pins. Wear and tear on the receiver was not a concern to me in getting the pins, they really did a good job of cleaning up the trigger though.
CTbuilder1
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Posted: 11/24/2010 3:24:40 PM
Originally Posted By ponykilr:


Then don't.



Oh, I won't. My main point was making sure that no one else get's the idea to do some gun plumbing on a duty weapon. Thats my only point of contention with your post and this thread.
ponykilr
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Posted: 11/24/2010 5:50:09 PM
I understand the liability issues of a duty weapon.

I also understand that my trigger is now VERY nice and it cost me under $1.
I just wanted to pass it along for all the other poor people.

All it does is take up some of the pre-travel and creep for you, you decide how much. The engagement surfaces are left alone, there is nothing unsafe as long as the safety is fitted properly.
If I was a SWAT high tech operator I would have the best trigger the dept. would buy, since I am destitute, I did my own. LOL

No animosity intended bro.
mistabud
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Posted: 11/30/2010 11:48:40 AM
great post thanks
madcratebuilder
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Posted: 12/1/2010 10:39:11 AM
I've never understood the reluctance of the AR builders to do their own trigger work. All that's needed is a good trigger block, a few stones and knowledge. Kasenit is your friend.
AustinCQC
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Posted: 12/6/2010 12:30:12 AM
There are definitely liability issues involved with tinkering with your gun even if you know what you're doing. We live in a lawsuit crazy country. If that rifle gets used while on duty or even as a civilian and somebody gets hurt or killed, you have a very high probability for a lawsuit since your weapon will be examined.

With that said...if having a lighter smoother trigger saves your life or the life of one of your colleagues, then I'd rather face the consequences.

Not every SWAT department appropriates the funds for the best equipment.

ponykilr
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Posted: 12/6/2010 9:38:35 AM
I understand those concerns.
I will add however that if a DA wants to dance with you, he will. It matters little what weapon you used to defend yourself.
Especially if it is an evil black gun, good trigger or bad trigger.

I have done another AR, this one a 6.8 I plan to hunt with (my daughter uses it too) and it is just as sweet as the .308 is.
This one, I stoned some shelf off of the hammer (without touching the engagement surface or changing the angle).
I was able to get a very crisp trigger at about 4 lbs, without shaving off the area where the trigger tail meets the safety.
I took up the pre-travel with a set screw only up to where the trigger tail meets the safety.

Really nice, and free.

Guys, I know we live in a society which might hang us out to dry if we exercise our right to defense. Proceed at your own discretion, and stay safe.
If I can help you with a trigger question, please PM me.