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Cold
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Posted: 9/30/2010 12:11:32 AM
[Last Edit: 9/30/2010 12:12:02 AM by Cold]
From The Military Times site
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Calibers come and go, but not usually from companies that are tied into military contracts. With the M4 replacement testing coming up in the near future, we weren’t surprised when we got a call from AAC/ Remington telling us about a new project. What we didn’t see coming was that sneak peaks would be done at Modern Day Marine. Luckily, we were on hand as Marines in the know petted and panted over the pumped up SBR.
As interesting as a new caliber is to some of us, it gets better. Start thinking about a M4 with a 9″ barrel that has 37% more energy than 5.56mm M855 from a 16″ barrel (the standard M4 is a 14.5″). Clearing buildings, crawl spaces, vehicle work, going up ladders and seizing ships or aircraft are all tasks that have us wanting a short barrel, but getting shot at has us wanting a round that ends threats quickly. It looks like the new 300 AAC Blackout from Remington/ AAC ammunition and upper receiver is at the right place at the right time.


We spoke with Robert Silvers who is the Research and Development Director for Advanced Armament Corp. Mr. Silvers explained that they had developed not only a caliber, but also an upper receiver group that would drop on existing M4 carbines (or AR15s). This upper receiver group uses a standard M4 bolt and Bolt Carrier Group (BCG). We pointed out that this allowed for an immediate swap for Military or Law Enforcement teams that were already using the M4 as all they would need would be for their armorers to change out barrels. I don’t think my observation was anything new, and he agreed. He went on to state there were three types of SAAMI approved ammunition immediately available with additional options coming up in the near future.
Current ammunition types are the 123 gr. MC 300BLK, 155 gr. OTM 300BLK, and 220 gr. SUBSONIC OTM 300BLK. Each round is purpose driven, and allows selection for a given mission. The supersonic ammunition was developed as a 5.56 replacement, while the heavier subsonic ammo was designed to give a total weapon replacement option for users of the MP5 and MP7. Barrier Blind Optimal Penetration ammo is currently under development.
One weapon and caliber replacing the standard M4, AND the more specialized HK MP-5 and HK MP-7A1? It sounds like a congressman or city managers prayers have been answered, never mind unit armorer and supply guys. Money issues aside, training with one weapon platform makes more sense than jumping back and forth. Of course we use the best tools available for the job, but sometimes less is more.
Advanced Armament Corp is best known for their suppressors, and it makes sense that along with the development of the upper and ammunition, a silencer would be included. The numbers given to us show the new 762-SDN-6 suppressor is shooting a 220 grain 300BLK bullet at 1000FPS at 126.2 dB. The MP5-SD is firing a 115 grain bullet at 900FPS at 130dB with its HK suppressor. I understand that these numbers were not done at the same time, and that various testing methods can show different results, so I look at these as rough numbers. Anyone who had fired a suppressed MP5 knows how quiet they are, so even as a ballpark figure, these numbers are impressive.
Below are the listed design objectives as they were given. When I asked who had come to AAC/ Remington with these design objectives, I was met with a moment of silence, and told it just came as part of a project. Fair enough.
DESIGN OBJECTIVES
• Create a reliable compact 30-cal solution for the AR platform
• Utilize existing inventory magazines while retaining their full capacity
• Create the optimal platform for sound and flash suppressed fire
• Create compatible supersonic ammo that matches 7.62×39 ballistics
• Provide the ability to penetrate barriers with high-mass projectiles
• Provide all capabilities in a lightweight, durable, low recoiling package
Mr. Silvers pointed out several times that this was not a caliber that was exclusive to the Military or Law Enforcement market. His stated his goal was to be able to deliver a reliable source of ammunition through Remington, and to make the 300 AAC Blackout something affordable for target shooters and hunters. There are a lot of AR15 shooters in this country, and a lot of hunters, but most states will not allow hunting with a .22 caliber. The advent of the 300 AAC Blackout may bring interest from a few other avenues as news of this circulates throughout the shooting community. While 6.8SPC is an option, there many people who will like the ability to use their current AR15 magazines, as well as using a standard 5.56 bolt. Ammunition reloaders may find their .30 favorite bullets another reason to look at the 300 AAC Blackout.
There is a lot more information that we have on this weapon system, but we have one in hand, and ammunition enroute to us. We are going to put the weapon and rounds in the hands of MIL and LE trigger pullers, then report back with our findings. For now, check out the new website and start soaking it all up.
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W-D
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Posted: 9/30/2010 2:19:32 AM
Soooo, 300 Whisper is now mainstream? They trying to piss off JD?
"If I start fighting a war, I guarantee you'll see something new."
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Posted: 9/30/2010 2:22:58 AM
Originally Posted By W-D:
Soooo, 300 Whisper is now mainstream? They trying to piss off JD?


Sounds more like 7.62x40.
What is your budget, and what do you want to do with the rifle? These are the questions you must answer before purchasing anything.
ARmory04
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Posted: 9/30/2010 5:53:55 AM
Why no pictures of the round?


Either way, color me interested.
PVFD304
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Posted: 9/30/2010 6:36:27 AM
It seems to me there is a lot of talk in this area but no real action. I've been looking for variant barrels for awhile now with no luck.

Looking for the 30 HRT and 7.62x40.

Anyone knows of any stocking dealers?

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98Z5V
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Posted: 9/30/2010 7:32:44 AM
[Last Edit: 9/30/2010 7:33:08 AM by 98Z5V]
Originally Posted By ARmory04:
Why no pictures of the round?




Link to AAC's site within the Military Times article. It's a 7.62 x 35.



VaFish
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Posted: 9/30/2010 8:43:05 AM
So 30 years ago the Soviets changed from 7.62x39 to 5.46x39 to mimmic the Nato 5.56 and now we are going to go to a 7.62x35 to mimic the 7.62x39?

I guess history does repeat itself.
762x40mm
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Posted: 9/30/2010 9:46:28 AM
[Last Edit: 9/30/2010 9:48:01 AM by 762x40mm]
Originally Posted By 98Z5V:
Originally Posted By ARmory04:
Why no pictures of the round?




Link to AAC's site within the Military Times article. It's a 7.62 x 35.






HK has had their AR version of the Whisper for years, it's the 7.62x37mm



A comparison of the Blackout to the SD platform is somewhat slanted......comparison to the AR platform HKx37 would be a little more even

300 Whisper.....7.62x~33mm....supersonic/subsonic
Blackout.....7.62x35mm....supersonic/subsonic
HK.....7.62x37mm.....supersonic/subsonic
7.62ARk....7.62x38mm.....supersonic/subsonic
7.62x40mm.....primarily supersonic
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7 > 6.8
Brahmzy
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Posted: 9/30/2010 10:10:11 AM
[Last Edit: 9/30/2010 10:11:05 AM by Brahmzy]
That is an extremely STRANGE looking round. How does this compare ballistically to the 6.8SPC? Better? Faster? Flatter? Obviously it's got more knockdown and mass for expansion, but it looks SLOW.

Regardless, I want a 12.5.
1_AR_NEWBIE
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Posted: 9/30/2010 10:39:20 AM
TAG
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DON'T laugh I only have one AR!

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nick1983
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Posted: 9/30/2010 11:56:17 AM
How many times can we re-invent the 7.62x39.........
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Posted: 9/30/2010 12:25:03 PM
Even though it can be seen as reinventing the 7.62x39, doing something like this can have advantages that the 7.62x39 does not have. With this design one of the aims seems to be being able to load it in standard AR type magazines unlike the x39 that needs special magazines. Another thing is that it can be standardized to use .308 diameter bullets instead of the x39s .311 diameter, this gives a much wider selection of bullets. Lastly, unlike things like the 300 whisper this cartridge is being brought out by a more major company and could lead to success because of this backing.
Altair
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Posted: 9/30/2010 12:51:30 PM
So Kurt's 7.62x40 and JD's 300 Whisper had an offspring, the 7.62x35 (300 Blackout)....

This may be good as I have both a 7.62x40 and a 300/221 (Whisper) and I think the potential of both has not been realized. Here's hoping Remington doesn't drop the ball again...

As for the 7.62x39 being remade, that isn't really true. While ballistics of the supersonics may be similar 7.62x39 has traditionally been available only with poor bullets and has way too much case taper for the AR mag well. It also has a larger case head that makes for thinner bolt faces. I think this round can find it's niche, though I don't imagine it will replace 5.56 as the primary NATO caliber anytime soon.
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RussellAthletic
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Posted: 9/30/2010 3:39:50 PM
Very interesting. Although my knowledge is limited when it comes to ballistics, I just wonder how long it takes for a new round to get off the ground and become "mainstream"/readily available. I'd love to get into the variants world but I do not reload and don't want to spend big bucks on hard to find ammo.
45-Seventy
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Posted: 9/30/2010 3:54:34 PM
Originally Posted By nick1983:
How many times can we re-invent the 7.62x39.........


Exactly...

"Create compatible supersonic ammo that matches 7.62×39 ballistics"

Know what matches 7.62X39 ballistics really well?

Umm... 7.62X39
Altair
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Posted: 9/30/2010 5:44:20 PM
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
Originally Posted By nick1983:
How many times can we re-invent the 7.62x39.........


Exactly...

"Create compatible supersonic ammo that matches 7.62×39 ballistics"

Know what matches 7.62X39 ballistics really well?

Umm... 7.62X39


You missed "compatible". If you want 7.62x39 ballistics in an AK sure, go 7.62x39. If you want it in an AR there are better options.
Advanced techniques are the basics mastered.

Excellence is an art won by training and habit. We are what we repeatedly do. -- Aristotle

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Posted: 9/30/2010 5:48:48 PM
Originally Posted By Altair:
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
Originally Posted By nick1983:
How many times can we re-invent the 7.62x39.........


Exactly...

"Create compatible supersonic ammo that matches 7.62×39 ballistics"

Know what matches 7.62X39 ballistics really well?

Umm... 7.62X39


You missed "compatible". If you want 7.62x39 ballistics in an AK sure, go 7.62x39. If you want it in an AR there are better options.


Much better...The 5.56 bolt face in the AR-15 platform is far superior to a 7.62 bolt face, as are 5.56 mags to 7.62x39 mags...
What is your budget, and what do you want to do with the rifle? These are the questions you must answer before purchasing anything.
Strike6
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Posted: 9/30/2010 8:07:52 PM
Look at it for what it is. You have a platform that fires a 7.62 caliber cartridge in an AR SBR sized platform that cycles subsonic ammunition reliably and is backed by one of the largest arms manufacturer as well as suppressor manufacturer.

I would think this is aimed at door kickers primarily LEO and MIL. Clear a room with suppressed M-16s firing supersonic ammo and it's still f...ing loud. Now fire a 220GR subsonic round and look at the difference. Hopefully with Remington's backing, it will not be $42.00 per box of 20 or restricted to those who like to reload (300 Whisper, 300/221, etc.).

Anyway, it does prove how modular the AR platform is.
chris65
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Posted: 9/30/2010 10:14:55 PM
From the upper's owner's manual...

HANDLOADING
If you load your own ammo, pay special attention to all of the normal safety practices. Recommended powders for most supersonic loads are Hodgdon H110 and Lil’Gun. For subsonic, there are special requirements and nearly all published loads are non-optimal for the 300 BLK upper. Many existing loads were developed for Thompson Center® single-shot pistols, or for ARs by people not aware of
the magazine limitations. These loads pay no attention to automatic rifle function and should not be used. Look for a load which results in a cyclic rate of 700 rpm or more. AA1680 is recommended because its bulk density matches the case capacity and it will generate enough gas pressure to cycle the weapon.

PARTS REPLACEMENT
Barrel RECREATIONAL USE______ 50,000 rounds
Barrel HARD USE / COMPETITION__35,000 rounds
Barrel MISSION-CRITICAL USE____20,000 rounds
"A man with one AR is like a man with one arm." -me (pun intended)
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Posted: 9/30/2010 11:32:59 PM
Woo Hoo! I think I just decided on my #3 300 BLK.

My #s so far

#2 .223/5.56
#4 458 SOCOM
#5 50 Beowulf

Hmmmm, anyone make a .17 upper?
Molon Labe
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Posted: 9/30/2010 11:58:19 PM
Originally Posted By Minuteman:
Woo Hoo! I think I just decided on my #3 300 BLK.

My #s so far

#2 .223/5.56
#4 458 SOCOM
#5 50 Beowulf

Hmmmm, anyone make a .17 upper?


I don't know about .17, but I think the .204 Ruger would make a very nice #1 for you.


Combat_Jack
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Posted: 10/1/2010 12:00:50 AM
It's a decent idea. I'd rather see 6X35 for supersonic applications. But subsonic has its uses too.
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chewbacca
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Posted: 10/1/2010 12:50:43 AM
For subsonic applications, I think it is a good idea.
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JesseJames
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Posted: 10/1/2010 12:57:38 AM
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
For subsonic applications, I think it is a good idea.


+1

i was just about ready to order up a 300 whisper but I think I'll hold off a little and see if these make it to market in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe like by the time I get the stamp for my EVO-9
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Posted: 10/1/2010 9:40:59 AM
[Last Edit: 10/1/2010 9:41:12 AM by Xylene86]
it says uppers go into production in october 2010 soooo now..
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Posted: 10/1/2010 9:46:16 AM
Originally Posted By Minuteman:
Woo Hoo! I think I just decided on my #3 300 BLK.

My #s so far

#2 .223/5.56
#4 458 SOCOM
#5 50 Beowulf

Hmmmm, anyone make a .17 upper?


yes, do a search.
Alexander Arms offers a .17HMR rifle (also called Ghengis)
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