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Dr69er
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Posted: 6/1/2009 11:31:00 PM
Hello, anyone know where I can find a AR-15 Barrel Kit/or Complete Upper in 6.5mm TCU ?

Thanks,
Vic
475AR10
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Posted: 6/2/2009 3:37:29 PM
I am waiting to gets specs back on the reamer, and will be building one myself, as it looks like a great round for the AR.
DanaHillen
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Posted: 6/2/2009 5:04:09 PM
hhmmm......that's an interesting idea.....I'd like a fairly slow twist to shoot 85 to 100 gr bullets....24" BlackStar barrel,fluted––(just for the helluvit)
Dr69er
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Posted: 6/4/2009 8:45:28 PM
I and a fellow member are working on getting barrel blanks,reamers amd loading dies...stay tuned.


Thanks.
Dr69er
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Posted: 6/4/2009 8:56:19 PM
Hello Dana, the 6.5mm TCU is good for 85 gr.(minimum) to 144gr.(maximum) projectile range (for AR's), I've even seen up tp 160grs.(but thats usually for bolt actions and T/C's where the C.O.A.L.'s are longer.

Thanks.
475AR10
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Posted: 6/9/2009 2:24:08 PM
Reamer should be here in a couple weeks.
Randall_1611
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Posted: 6/10/2009 9:44:09 AM
Try this link for SSK Industries. At the bottom of the page is the complete list of AR-15 calibers / uppers that can be ordered.
Here
Dr69er
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Posted: 6/11/2009 8:53:57 PM
Hello Fellas, I and a fellow member have started to get the 6.5mm TCU AR-15 Project off the ground...He maybe going with a McGowen barrel blank and I will be going with Pac-Nor Match Grade Polygonal Barrel Blank, however, the long turn-around is rather depressing (4 months). I found a G'Smith at C.L.E. for the barrel work...but still looking for a least one more as a back-up.

Any other other suggestions on a gunsmith with experience with AR-15 barrel work would be great !

Stay Tuned...I will try to post pics once everything is ready


Thanks
uptown1
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Posted: 6/11/2009 9:38:35 PM
[Last Edit: 6/11/2009 10:27:00 PM by uptown1]
Originally Posted By Dr69er:

......He maybe going with a McGowen barrel blank......




I ordered six McGowen AR barrel blanks in various calibers through a pretty well known local wildcatter / ARFCOM member.....McGowen screwed up five of the six blanks, not made to drawing measurments or order, .310" bore instead of .308", forgot to thread the extension end , forgot to thread the muzzle end, gas block seats .200" too far forward, gas block seats had so much chatter they looked like orange peel...

When asked if they QC and compare the out going barrels to the submitted drawings they said they didn't know how....WTF

Took months to straighten out the orders....they eventually made all of the orders right.....

Dr69er
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Posted: 6/13/2009 8:58:52 AM
Thanks for the heads-up...How's the quality of the barrels...what's the accuracy like ?


Thanks,
uptown1
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Posted: 6/13/2009 10:43:53 AM
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 12:58:35 PM by uptown1]
Originally Posted By Dr69er:

...How's the quality of the barrels...what's the accuracy like ?




The mechanical quality of the corrected blanks was better than the originals but even after the second go there were a few things that need to be cleaned up....the drawings called for thread relief at the shoulders, some of the barrels had it and some didn't....consistency issues with critical measurements from barrel to barrel not being the same (i.e. extension shoulder to breech face)....what sucks is, the local smith we used to clean up the barrels has known Harry McGowen for close to fifty years and the person who ordered the barrels knew Ron Duplessis from living in Baton Rouge for several years, the smith had built several McGowen bolt guns over the years and couldn't believe the exterior lack of quality, rough cuts, chatter, and mis-measurements of the AR barrels...I think there was a total of thirteen barrels ordered and one was made correct to the drawings....

The McGowen .30 and .35 cal AR barrels I ordered shoot great, accuracy is right in line with much higher priced blanks / barrels I have used...one of the McGowen .25 cal AR barrels is surgical in accuracy, will shoot dime sized and smaller at 100 yds....I realize the accuracy is a sum of the whole system, but the bores are very clean, well cut, and absent of tool marks...

uptown1
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Posted: 6/13/2009 12:51:25 PM
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 12:53:16 PM by uptown1]
sorry.....double tap, thought I was at the range

bfarrin1
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Posted: 6/13/2009 1:30:51 PM
Originally Posted By uptown1:
I ordered six McGowen AR barrel blanks in various calibers through a pretty well known local wildcatter / ARFCOM member.....McGowen screwed up five of the six blanks, not made to drawing measurments or order, .310" bore instead of .308", forgot to thread the extension end , forgot to thread the muzzle end, gas block seats .200" too far forward, gas block seats had so much chatter they looked like orange peel...

When asked if they QC and compare the out going barrels to the submitted drawings they said they didn't know how....WTF

Took months to straighten out the orders....they eventually made all of the orders right.....






Unless you've sent a print of what you want cut, last I knew - they're still profiling off the print I sent.

In the order you are speaking of above, I know they were made to my print - and guess what, that's exactly the way I order them.

There isn't any FORGOT involved.


The gas port dimension is .100-.200 long (non critical for me based on the time it takes to make it what I want it), the gas port OD is .005-.007" oversized and unpolished, the barrel is 17" long and uncrowned, and the barrel extension tenon area is oversized and unthreaded. Its a profiled blank and nothing else.


Over the last few years, I've told a few folks on here and elsewhere about my pattern that McGowen will profile for - unfortunately many don't "GET IT", in that ALL of the dimensions are oversize/length - so I can fit them the way I want them.


Problem is, they decide they want the extension threaded, then the muzzle threaded etc., before realizing the gas port shoulder is way too long, etc. - as they are still building to my print, just tacking on this or that to it.



The order you mention concerning the .310 groove diameter - they shipped him the .310 1/10 twist barrels I had ordered, and shipped me his .308 groove barrels - nothing more, nothing less.


Originally Posted By uptown1:
.........what sucks is, the local smith we used to clean up the barrels has known Harry McGowen for close to fifty years and the person who ordered the barrels knew Ron Duplessis from living in Baton Rouge for several years, the smith had built several McGowen bolt guns over the years and couldn't believe the exterior lack of quality,


Harry McGowen has nothing to do with the operation of McGowen barrels after he sold the business to them, what - nearly three years ago?, and moved it from St. Anne, IL to Kalispell, MT.


Blaming the concerns mentioned above, other than the mixup of the groove diameters, on McGowen barrels is a joke.





uptown1
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Posted: 6/13/2009 2:16:03 PM
Originally Posted By bfarrin1:
Originally Posted By uptown1:
I ordered six McGowen AR barrel blanks in various calibers through a pretty well known local wildcatter / ARFCOM member.....McGowen screwed up five of the six blanks, not made to drawing measurments or order, .310" bore instead of .308", forgot to thread the extension end , forgot to thread the muzzle end, gas block seats .200" too far forward, gas block seats had so much chatter they looked like orange peel...

When asked if they QC and compare the out going barrels to the submitted drawings they said they didn't know how....WTF

Took months to straighten out the orders....they eventually made all of the orders right.....






Unless you've sent a print of what you want cut, last I knew - they're still profiling off the print I sent.

In the order you are speaking of above, I know they were made to my print - and guess what, that's exactly the way I order them.

There isn't any FORGOT involved.


The gas port dimension is .100-.200 long (non critical for me based on the time it takes to make it what I want it), the gas port OD is .005-.007" oversized and unpolished, the barrel is 17" long and uncrowned, and the barrel extension tenon area is oversized and unthreaded. Its a profiled blank and nothing else.


Over the last few years, I've told a few folks on here and elsewhere about my pattern that McGowen will profile for - unfortunately many don't "GET IT", in that ALL of the dimensions are oversize/length - so I can fit them the way I want them.


Problem is, they decide they want the extension threaded, then the muzzle threaded etc., before realizing the gas port shoulder is way too long, etc. - as they are still building to my print, just tacking on this or that to it.



The order you mention concerning the .310 groove diameter - they shipped him the .310 1/10 twist barrels I had ordered, and shipped me his .308 groove barrels - nothing more, nothing less.


Originally Posted By uptown1:
.........what sucks is, the local smith we used to clean up the barrels has known Harry McGowen for close to fifty years and the person who ordered the barrels knew Ron Duplessis from living in Baton Rouge for several years, the smith had built several McGowen bolt guns over the years and couldn't believe the exterior lack of quality,


Harry McGowen has nothing to do with the operation of McGowen barrels after he sold the business to them, what - nearly three years ago?, and moved it from St. Anne, IL to Kalispell, MT.


Blaming the concerns mentioned above, other than the mixup of the groove diameters, on McGowen barrels is a joke.









unless your name is Jon Frost and take orders for McGowen YOU don't know what the fuck happened......there was a complete series of prints sent to McGowen for a 10.5", 16", 20", and 24" for these orders......these prints are clearly not yours and make no mention of 'oversize' tolerence.....all they had to do was make the barrels to the drawings and all would of been good.....

A drawing was submitted for a 10.5" and 20" barrel clearly illustrating every dimension needed to cut the barrels, including breech and muzzle thread, pitch, tenon length, shoulder relief, gas block seat size and position.....the barrels came in with NO THREADS on either end....they FORGOT to machine them....

the .310 / .308 "mix-up" you speak of......I didn't order a fucking .310...I ordered .308.....if I was building a bullshit russian or britt I could of put them to use...

when they put the shoulder for the gas block seat so far forward that the tube does not go into the gas key, I'd say that's just a little too far forward...the drawing was right, so I guess they didn't follow the drawing....

the smith was disappointed to see the change in quality, or should I say lack of quality, after Harry sold the business.....you notice I mentioned the new owner.....

so for you to assume that every AR barrel that McGowen has made is based off of your self admitted dimensionaly incorrect drawing is vain at best...
bfarrin1
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Posted: 6/13/2009 5:54:54 PM
Originally Posted By uptown1:

the .310 / .308 "mix-up" you speak of......I didn't order a fucking .310...I ordered .308.....if I was building a bullshit russian or britt I could of put them to use...

when they put the shoulder for the gas block seat so far forward that the tube does not go into the gas key, I'd say that's just a little too far forward...the drawing was right, so I guess they didn't follow the drawing....

so for you to assume that every AR barrel that McGowen has made is based off of your self admitted dimensionaly incorrect drawing is vain at best...



What part of "I received your order and he received mine" don't you understand?



uptown1
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Posted: 6/13/2009 7:51:03 PM
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 9:36:17 PM by uptown1]
Originally Posted By bfarrin1:
Originally Posted By uptown1:

the .310 / .308 "mix-up" you speak of......I didn't order a fucking .310...I ordered .308.....if I was building a bullshit russian or britt I could of put them to use...




What part of "I received your order and he received mine" don't you understand?






once again it's you that does not understand....

you should of quoted as above, for the quote about the gas system being the incorrect length did not apply to the .310 barrels, it applies to ones in the other eleven ordered...

the only "joke" is that you assumed that all of the barrels in discussion were made off of your lousy barrel drawing......you said that your drawing has a unthreaded extension tennon, if that is the case I must of not got one of your .310 barrels because mine was threaded....

so by your rational it does not matter what I ordered as long as I get someone elses order it's ok.....out of around thirteen barrels ordered they got one right, a .25, which again has noting to do with the .310s.....if the orders did get mixed up and I ended up with one of your barrels they still got the order wrong.....one barrel out of thirteen is something like, 7% RFT (right first time).....some of the most looked down on companies on this forum that I've ordered stuff from score way better than that....drawings that I've submitted to companies like PacNor, Noveske, Shaw, Model 1 Shaw, and Perry seemed to hit 100% RFT, no returns or re-do......

In case you missed it I commended McGowen on the accuracy and quality of their bores.....they just didn't have much luck hitting drawing measurements....

I took a $70.00 blank bought off Midway and brought it to a local slop shop, known for fixing shit like driveshafts, tractor axles, pump shafts, and gave them the same 10.5" drawing supplied to McGowen...two days and a 100 bucks later I had a contoured blank that hit every dimension on the drawing....I asked for a .750 gas seat and got .750 not .762 or .758

you didn't seem to want to talk about the barrels that they FORGOT to thread each end of....you implied that they were following your drawing and they were supposed to be like that....didn't see anything in your post about you supplying them with a drawing for a unthreaded extension tennon 10.5 or 20??????

back to the original OP I have a 6, .25, 7, and 7.62 TCUish chamberings....so far I'm the happiest with the .25 (6.3mm)....it's pretty close to the 6.5 and I can give you my load data if you want it when you get closer on your build....

762x40mm
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Posted: 6/13/2009 10:37:40 PM

Hey guys,
To the OP and others interested....the 6.5TCU should make for a neat AR
cartridge...I have a drawing for a reamer that is a tad shorter than the
TCU, around 43mm. I can send it to you if you want it.
The McGowen thing, I knew several people that had McGowen bolt-guns,
they were happy with them and they looked like Good stuff...a member
here, he can say who if he wants to, turned me on to them making AR
barrels...so I made a call and uptown1 ordered 1 with me on the
'other members' drawing print...and as discussed they came in .310
rather than .308 Made one up and it shot as expected going from past
experience with a .310 Colt and .308 bullets..never made the other one up.
Long of the short, is too much to type from a blackberry off the back of
a boat. I submitted drawings they were not followed, I got pissed, they
made replacement barrels, took a few months to get right.
Jon is a saint took care of everything,very polite guy.
Leave me alone and let me fish (did I say that outloud)
If this is screwed up it was sent from a Blackberry "Bold"
" The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to let them shoot holes in me..."
Dr69er
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Posted: 6/13/2009 11:35:41 PM
Hello Fellas, I did not want to create a firestorm regarding the McGowen barrel Issue....Anyway, thank you 7.62 X 40 I would like your reamer drawings.

Have you ever had an AR built In that Caliber?

Your thoughts on the 6.5mm TCU AR Project/Cartridge potential...I will be using a:

24" Pac-Nor CM (Polygonal Rifling) Barrel, 1:8 Twist, Heavy Contour with fitted Bolt.

Standard Freefloat Tube.

M1913 Type Gas Block.

RRA Bolt Carrier.

A3 Flat Top Upper Reciever.

Weaver Varmint Scope (50mm Obj.)
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

BTW you really got me Interested on your current project with your 7.62X40mm Round...are you or will you in the future be offering Uppers/Barrel Kits and Dies ?


Thanks Again,
Dr69er
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Posted: 6/14/2009 12:23:18 AM
Thanks Uptown1, Yes, the .25/6.35mm Caliber is pretty Close to the 6.5mm in size and weight...Load Data would be very helpfull...Is the parent case for your round based on the 223 Rem. Case?


Thanks,
762x40mm
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Posted: 6/14/2009 12:25:07 AM
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Hello Fellas, I did not want to create a firestorm regarding the McGowen barrel Issue....Anyway, thank you 7.62 X 40 I would like your reamer drawings.

Have you ever had an AR built In that Caliber?

Your thoughts on the 6.5mm TCU AR Project/Cartridge potential...I will be using a:

24" Pac-Nor CM (Polygonal Rifling) Barrel, 1:8 Twist, Heavy Contour with fitted Bolt.

Standard Freefloat Tube.

M1913 Type Gas Block.

RRA Bolt Carrier.

A3 Flat Top Upper Reciever.

Weaver Varmint Scope (50mm Obj.)
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

BTW you really got me Interested on your current project with your 7.62X40mm Round...are you or will you in the future be offering Uppers/Barrel Kits and Dies ?


Thanks Again,



I can send you the print when I get home...
With the .25 (6.3mm) variants we've worked on, the expected
Capacty, bore size, and barrel length...we have had the best
Luck with 18 to 20" barrels..the velocity gain going to the 24"
Was marginal, not saying it will be the same with the 6.5
But it might be a cosideration if length turns into a problem.
Powders that seem to work pretty good are 1680, 2015, 2230,
H322, and 5744...depending on weight of projo.
If this is screwed up it was sent from a Blackberry "Bold"
" The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to let them shoot holes in me..."
Dr69er
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Posted: 6/14/2009 8:46:29 AM
Thank You 7.62X40, Looking forward to the Load Data.
762x40mm
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Posted: 6/14/2009 10:37:54 AM
6.5x43mm Reamer Print



should be a good starting point, never made it, ended up sticking with the x40 theme, will post the .25 (6.3mm)x43 load data later....

Untested wildcat reamer, for information purpose only, use at own risk, consult reamer maker for finished dimensions.
" The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to let them shoot holes in me..."
Dr69er
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Posted: 6/14/2009 12:14:57 PM
Thanks Again 7.62X40, Looking forward to It...
uptown1
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:34:59 PM
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Thanks Uptown1, Yes, the .25/6.35mm Caliber is pretty Close to the 6.5mm in size and weight...Load Data would be very helpfull...Is the parent case for your round based on the 223 Rem. Case?


Thanks,


the .25(6.3mm)x43mm is based off the .223 rem / 5.56 .....18" 1:12 mid-length gas system..... two bullets that I usually shoot: 87gr TNT and 100gr SMK

standard disclaimer: use reloading data at your own risk

87gr TNT 23gr 2230 = 2,520fps
87gr TNT 24gr 2230 = 2,570fps
87gr TNT 21gr 1680 = 2,620fps

100gr SMK 24gr 2230 = 2,550fps
100gr SMK 23gr H322 = 2,420fps
100gr SMK 22gr 1680 = 2,625fps

my loads are a little on the mild side. with the slightly bigger bore of the 6.5 you should be able to get a little more velocity for a given weight.
4895 and 5744 will work also, will look for my data on them as well.


Dr69er
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:40:17 PM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2009 3:15:31 PM by Dr69er]
Thanks for the Info. Uptown1... Here is a finished but not fireformed new 6.5mm AR-TCU Round..sorry for the crappy photo...
Dr69er
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Posted: 8/8/2009 3:20:55 PM
OH, btw the round is loaded with a 120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip @ AR-15 mag length (2.2655"). Well,still waiting for the custom chambered 24" barrel blank..stay tuned.
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