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bfarrin1
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Posted: 12/31/2008 2:57:46 PM
I've been intrigued by the 9x39 Russian for quite awhile, as many others here apparently are.

Been working on this for the last few months, had it up an running for deer season and got skunked (literally, as that's all I saw).

It is an Indiana DNR legal "Pistol Caliber Rifle" cartridge based on the dimensions with a .358 projectile. Thus, the name the 358 Gremlin for those living in Indiana to avoid any confusion with the 9mm moniker.

I initially started with 6.5 Grendel brass, necked up in a few steps to .358. A bit of a step forms with the Lapua brass at the old neck/shoulder junction. It is large enough it needs to be turned off, trying to cut the chamber neck with that step is asking for problems.

Shortly thereafter I tried some Winchester 7.62x39 brass, necked up in three steps to .400", it will then form in one pass with enough shoulder to fireform to size. Best thing about it - no neck turning. The brass is .0115" thick at the neck and pretty consistent. Large primer pockets though

Case capacity depending on the brass is 38.5 of H20 +/- after fireforming.

Using Lil Gun powder it has been delivering the 180 Hornady SS/SP at 2325-2350 fps out of a 17" McGowen 14 twist barrel. Accuracy has been phenomal with those bullets, rarely will a group go over 1.5" at 100 yards.

200g Hornady SP's have been up to 1950 fps, load development is continuing there.

225g Nosler Accubond have been up to 1650 fps, that bullet is such a case capacity hog due to the length. I'm unsure if we'll get it up any further than that.

Recoil isn't anything, my test rifle in its hunting configuration: medium weight barrel, carbine gas length, full float tube, Cavalry lower and a 4x Leupold and weighs 5.75 lbs. Nice for carrying in the woods.

Standard carbine buffer works fine, can't tell any significant difference in function with a heavier buffer or stronger springs - or when used on a standard rifle lower receiver.

So far, the most reliable magazine has been some "misformed" 6.5 Grendel magazines that have a shallow front rib (less than .115" deep). The 17 and 26 round "misformed" mags seem better than the 10 round magazines. For whatever reason the 10's seem to swell the mag body more than the others.

For best performance, I think the rib needs to be less than .100". Plan on researching the availability of such a product at SHOT - or may take a ball end mill to a few magazines for testing in the meantime.

With such a magazine, running projectiles up to the 310g FMJ Woodleigh won't be any problem.

I've got an order placed for 4000 pieces of basic PPC brass with small primer pockets that will hopefully be delivered in the next month or so, once the dimensions of the brass are measured - the reamer will be modified as needed to abandon the Grendel brass and maximize performance using the Winchester 7.62x39 and PPC basic brass.

Updates coming on the supplier items (magazines & brass) from the floor of SHOT in 15 days!





uptown1
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Posted: 1/1/2009 3:27:48 PM
[Last Edit: 1/1/2009 3:28:17 PM by uptown1]
cool......are die sets available?.....
bfarrin1
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Posted: 1/1/2009 4:05:09 PM
[Last Edit: 1/1/2009 4:05:36 PM by bfarrin1]
I've got an order in with Hornady now, or you can order from them direct.

Once I've got enough of them sold/spoken for(I think it takes a 20 piece order) the price will go down drastically.
CaptSchofield
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Posted: 1/1/2009 4:07:07 PM
Very good information, I would realy like to use an AR when hunting Deer in IN. The 450 Socom does not interest me because of it's limited range. I'll bet those 180gr Hornady's @ 2350fps would reach out there!
Another load from the floor of the 10th U.S. Cavalry stables
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762x40mm
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Posted: 1/6/2009 8:40:20 PM
glad to see you got this one up and running....let me know when I can get in line

how are the dies working out with the x39 brass....is one pass neck-up possible with the elliptical expander or does it still need to be opened up in steps?....

have you got to run anything out of a short barrel?....looking at the 17" velocities if a 180 or 200 could make 1,800 out a 10" SBR/pistol that would pretty cool, kinda like a .357 Maximum Magnum Magnum

sucks about the neck bump on the Lapua brass....we ran into the same problem pushing the shoulder back on norma .222 brass...I found a little Remington small primer x39 brass if it will help out.....

Keep us up to date....

Kurt
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CaptSchofield
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Posted: 1/10/2009 12:43:16 PM
Hornady has a New 200 grain Flex tip Bullet made for the 35REM. It was made to extend the Range of the old 35 in lever guns. It might be a good bullet for your 9X39
Another load from the floor of the 10th U.S. Cavalry stables
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bfarrin1
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Posted: 1/10/2009 2:07:55 PM
Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:
Hornady has a New 200 grain Flex tip Bullet made for the 35REM. It was made to extend the Range of the old 35 in lever guns. It might be a good bullet for your 9X39


I just got a catalog from them yesterday and was thinking the same thing.

Hope to have one (or more) in hand next week at SHOT.
762x40mm
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Posted: 1/10/2009 3:52:36 PM
Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:
Hornady has a New 200 grain Flex tip Bullet made for the 35REM. It was made to extend the Range of the old 35 in lever guns. It might be a good bullet for your 9X39



yep.....


" The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to let them shoot holes in me..."
CaptSchofield
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Posted: 1/10/2009 9:23:33 PM
I would really like to know what the ballistic coefficient is for that 35 cal flex tip as I would like to try it in my 358 WSSM
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bfarrin1
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Posted: 1/10/2009 9:27:50 PM
Hornady catalog says .300 B/C and .223 S/D.

I'm thinking it might be a hot little number for the 358 BFG too


yekimak
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Posted: 1/10/2009 11:14:00 PM
Originally Posted By 762x40mm:
Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:
Hornady has a New 200 grain Flex tip Bullet made for the 35REM. It was made to extend the Range of the old 35 in lever guns. It might be a good bullet for your 9X39



yep.....

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=7058


Guessing by the taper it does not look like it would feed in an AK mag anymore...There go my fickle dreams of making some sort of cool russian clone of some sort.


This thread is fascinating.
762x40mm
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Posted: 1/10/2009 11:47:30 PM
[Last Edit: 1/11/2009 12:08:37 AM by 762x40mm]
Originally Posted By yekimak:
Originally Posted By 762x40mm:
Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:
Hornady has a New 200 grain Flex tip Bullet made for the 35REM. It was made to extend the Range of the old 35 in lever guns. It might be a good bullet for your 9X39



yep.....

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=7058


Guessing by the taper it does not look like it would feed in an AK mag anymore...There go my fickle dreams of making some sort of cool russian clone of some sort.


This thread is fascinating.



An AK variant clone should be pretty easy to form up....note the remaining taper in the 9x39 Russian..



the pic of the round I posted with the reduced taper actually stacks in a C Products AR-15 7.62x39 mag better than the tapered original, does not nose dive...
" The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to let them shoot holes in me..."
bfarrin1
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Posted: 1/14/2009 3:44:02 PM
Midway has some blems of that new Hornady bullet!


http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=180588

I left 1800 of them for you guys :)




MGP
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Posted: 1/14/2009 6:04:00 PM
All gone! Wow that was fast
ctnsupra1
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Posted: 1/14/2009 10:56:52 PM
Tag for future consumption
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege."
- WILSON V. STATE, 33 ARK 557
uptown1
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Posted: 2/3/2009 7:39:16 PM
any word on dies and brass?
bfarrin1
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Posted: 2/3/2009 7:58:19 PM
Brass is supposed to go into production near the first of March.

I've got a quote request out with another die supplier just to make sure the pricing is inline.
uptown1
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Posted: 4/18/2009 11:41:18 PM
Originally Posted By bfarrin1:
Brass is supposed to go into production near the first of March.

I've got a quote request out with another die supplier just to make sure the pricing is inline.




any word on the basic brass?

bfarrin1
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Posted: 4/19/2009 9:56:09 AM
Not a peep about the brass.

Did get a response about the magazines though - they're moving forward.

TANGOCHASER
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Posted: 8/9/2009 11:20:24 PM
Any updates on this?
كافر
bfarrin1
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Posted: 8/9/2009 11:47:19 PM
Got a couple of bolt guns running.

Tried a PRI magazine in the prototype #1 upper with good results last weekend, ordered another just to make sure it wasn't a fluke.

Nothing on the brass, and nothing on the other magazines in MONTHS.