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Basic
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Posted: 3/14/2005 5:30:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2009 3:11:18 PM EST by Zhukov]
I need the pros and cons of these 2 systems. I think anyone of these 2 systems will do good for a hog rifle in a swamp. Looks like the 50 Beowulf is a little cheaper and brass seems to be easier to get but the 458 has a wider selection of bullets. Or should I get something else.

<Made title bold - Z>

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Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:50:10 PM EST
The Beowulf will be cheaper. Most .458s are custom set ups versus the get-it-from Cabela's .50 Beowulf. With the .458 you might spend more but chances are you'll get exactly what you want.

With the Beowulf you'll be able to say you have a "fifty". Of course, with the .458 you can say, "no, it is only a .458, you can keep your .50 caliber ban" if the liberals get crazy and control in gov't.

The .458 is pretty neat in the fact that you can get bullets for reloading ranging from 300 grains all the way up to 600 grains. You can get them for as little as $70/500 or as high as $120/50 for the super-heavy game killers. This is all pointless if you don't reload though. Corbon is about the only company that makes factory loaded .458 SOCOM. Brass is fairly reasonable and even MidwayUSA carries it. You need to get dies from Lee or CH4D directly which isn't too big of a deal. Hell, there is even a Smith Enterprises Vortex available for the .458!

But, those are just my thoughts. And I might be a but biased since I've got a .458 and not a .50 Beowulf.

Hell, you might want to look at the Leitner-Wise .499.

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Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:52:18 PM EST
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, fast is deadly, frontsight press, always bring extra ammo, every plan is a good plan until the timer goes off.
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Link Posted: 3/14/2005 9:12:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Spooky130:
...as high as $120/50 $140/25



My most recent bullet acquisition. Got another bizarre projectile underway to me as well, as low as 200 gr .... but very different in appearance. Will post picture

GotM4 - love that pic!

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Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:04:05 PM EST
50 Beowulf is running number 1 as of today. Hard to beat the price at Midway with the discount I get for a C&R lic(just this purchase is worth more than the cost of the 3 year lic). I will wait a month to make sure of if this is what I want.

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Link Posted: 3/16/2005 3:31:12 AM EST
I'm with Spooky130 on this one. I got in on the SOCOM group buy a while (long while) ago. Could'nt be happier! I bought two, friend bought one and another friend bought one. We ALL love 'em!

Don't have to modify mags, easier/more reliable feeding due to a slightly tapered neck, and everything about the vast bullet selection.

Having a bigger caliber does not always mean better. These .458 SOCOM's will do mega damage to anything they hit. Although I have already mentioned the better bullet selection with the .458, I can not stress this option enough. Bigger bullet selection = more versitile rifle. You can hunt almost anything with a .458 SOCOM.

The .458 may be a bit more expensive, but it is definately worth it. Once you get talkin those kind of dollars, a couple hundred more (if that) is nothing if it means having a superior rifle.

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Link Posted: 3/16/2005 6:40:48 AM EST
i have the beowulf and cant comment on the socom since i have never actually seen one more less shoot one.

midway prices are great!


i have never had to modify any of my mags for proper feeding. all that i have tried have worked fine. i have been buying factory ammo by the cases and dont feel that it was a bad decision.


i love my wulf and would recommend it to anyone. but not for the faint of heart
FUNction over form

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Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:04:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/20/2005 9:33:05 AM EST by Banzai]
I have both.

Beowulf:
1. CorBon factory ammo in several loadings
2. Lesser initial expense, production line uppers
3. Readily available reloading components
4. Modified mags
5. Limited bullets for reloading
6. Less expensive brass
7. Limited reload recipes

SOCOM:
1. CorBon factory loads in several loadings
2. Slightly higher expense, custom built uppers
3. Readily avaliable reloading components
4. Unmodified mags
5. Dozens of bullets for reloading
6. Slightly more expensive brass
7. Extensive supply of reload recipes
8. More reliable feeding

Beowulf has the edge on cost and availability of factory loads as well as types of factory loads, as well as ease of reloading.
SOCOM has the edge on accuracy (slightly), brass life, reloading, overall flexibility, and quality.

Basically, you need to decide if you're a reloader or not. If not, no contest, Beowulf.

I would NOT trade my SOCOM for anything, though, and it's the big bore that I favor.

Tom

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Link Posted: 3/19/2005 7:45:05 PM EST




And now there's a Smith Enterprises Vortex available for the .458 SOCOM!!!!

Spooky
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CHECK OUT THE .458 VORTEX BUY ON THE EQUIPMENT EXCHANGE UNDER THE .458 SOCOM GROUP BUY!!!
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Link Posted: 3/19/2005 9:28:28 PM EST
I got my 458 out to the range last weekend for its first run. Ran 40 rounds through her and I can tell right now that it is my favorite out of all else in the safe. Outside of all that has been said by everyone else, it is just fun to shoot. And I have seen many 50's at the range, but I got plenty of looks with my tapered bulleted big bore.

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Link Posted: 3/21/2005 11:07:29 PM EST
Heres to the customization factor of the 458 SOCOM, thanks in part to the brilliance of Marty at www.teppojutsu.com its a real custom job and is not that much more then a 50 wulf, I have debated getting a 50 beowulf however, I have decided to put the money into a reloading set up to load some 600 grain sledgehammer rounds for piggies... heres my 458 SOCOM made my Marty per the 458 SOCOM GB i ran over the last 9 months....

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If it bleeds, the 458 SOCOM can kill it

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Link Posted: 4/2/2005 2:08:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/3/2005 5:03:24 AM EST by Autobahndriver]
I prefer the .50 Beowulf for what it is...a 50 cal bore.

If you want something really inexpensive with great power in .45.....
....want to take advantage of the large number of .45 bullets available....
.... there is the .454 Casull.

The Legacy model 92 lever action in .454 Casull is sub $400.
Factory loadings are also much less expensive (60cents and up per round for .454).
...and you can shoot .45 Long Colt when you don't feel like you need so much power.
Shooting standard .45 LC you can go down to 35 cents a round.

The Gunblast site has a good review of the Model 92 in .454 Casull if you are interested.

Paco managed to push a 325gr bullet at 2221fps through this carbine with a handload!
Freedom Arms .454 Casull ammo with the 300gr JSN was pushed out at 2085fps.
...or shoot .45 Colt +P through it for up to 1800fps.

www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm

Not a semi-auto AR but it compares to the SOCOM in ballistics.

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Link Posted: 4/3/2005 12:18:58 PM EST
Nice looking lever gun , looks to have good potential , thanks 4 posting this !

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Link Posted: 4/3/2005 10:14:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Autobahndriver:
I prefer the .50 Beowulf for what it is...a 50 cal bore.

Not a semi-auto AR but it compares to the SOCOM in ballistics.



OkieDoke.....

I mean if we want to start delving into off topic big bores....

How about the 50 Alaskan?

450gr at 2050fps.........

BTW, 454 Casull uses a .451 projectile. The 458 SOCOM uses 45-70/.458WM projectiles. Truely .458 diameter.
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Link Posted: 4/3/2005 10:52:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Autobahndriver:
I prefer the .50 Beowulf for what it is...a 50 cal bore.



If you want to get nitpicky, the Beowulf is a .500 diameter projectile. This means .500 groove diameter, which is the deeper part of the barrel. The actual bore diameter will be slightly less than .500.

The true ".50 cal" is similar to the .50 BMG, which uses a .510 bullet and groove diameter, and has an actual bore diameter of just a hair under .500.

Case in point, the ATF used to go around with a .50" diameter rod and try to insert it into "fifty cal" barrels. If it went into the barrel, the bore diameter exceeded .50 and it was deemed a DD. Considering .50 BMG rifles passed this test, the bore diameter on those has to be right at .50 if not a hair less.

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Link Posted: 4/4/2005 12:27:02 AM EST
Gosh that Marty is a wealth of info ! neat factioid!!!!
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If it bleeds, the 458 SOCOM can kill it

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Link Posted: 4/5/2005 6:06:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/5/2005 6:08:51 AM EST by Autobahndriver]

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Autobahndriver:
I prefer the .50 Beowulf for what it is...a 50 cal bore.

Not a semi-auto AR but it compares to the SOCOM in ballistics.



OkieDoke.....

I mean if we want to start delving into off topic big bores....

How about the 50 Alaskan?

450gr at 2050fps.........

BTW, 454 Casull uses a .451 projectile. The 458 SOCOM uses 45-70/.458WM projectiles. Truely .458 diameter.



??? and how does the .50 Alaskan compare as a low cost alternative - not!
Simply stating you can get similar ballistics with the advantage of the large selection of .45 bullets in a very low cost platform....with low ammunition cost to boot....if cost is your concern.
The only .50 Alaskan lever guns I've seen are mucho $$$$

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Link Posted: 4/5/2005 8:58:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Autobahndriver:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Autobahndriver:
I prefer the .50 Beowulf for what it is...a 50 cal bore.

Not a semi-auto AR but it compares to the SOCOM in ballistics.



OkieDoke.....

I mean if we want to start delving into off topic big bores....

How about the 50 Alaskan?

450gr at 2050fps.........

BTW, 454 Casull uses a .451 projectile. The 458 SOCOM uses 45-70/.458WM projectiles. Truely .458 diameter.



??? and how does the .50 Alaskan compare as a low cost alternative - not!
Simply stating you can get similar ballistics with the advantage of the large selection of .45 bullets in a very low cost platform....with low ammunition cost to boot....if cost is your concern.
The only .50 Alaskan lever guns I've seen are mucho $$$$



Never said it did. You quoted my entire post -- read it again.

You also offered a levergun as the alternative.

Why not just get the 444Marlin or the 45/70 or the 450 Marlin at that point? I know that just about every store I go to has 45/70 ammo......I've never seen Casull ammo. YMMV......
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Link Posted: 4/7/2005 2:16:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/7/2005 2:17:44 AM EST by Autobahndriver]

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Never said it did. You quoted my entire post -- read it again.

You also offered a levergun as the alternative.

Why not just get the 444Marlin or the 45/70 or the 450 Marlin at that point? I know that just about every store I go to has 45/70 ammo......I've never seen Casull ammo. YMMV......



...wait, you quoted my post FIRST where I mentioned the .454 as a low cost alternative.
I explained that it would duplicate the ballistics and offer a large variety of bullet loadings although in a lever-gun platform.

The .454 has a short case compared to the rifle rounds - offers a few advantages for some.

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Link Posted: 4/7/2005 8:32:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Autobahndriver:
...wait, you quoted my post FIRST where I mentioned the .454 as a low cost alternative.
I explained that it would duplicate the ballistics and offer a large variety of bullet loadings although in a lever-gun platform.



No shit? Then I stated that since we were going to go OFF TOPIC, why not the 50 Alaskan?

Get it?

OFF TOPIC is OFF TOPIC......

Stay on topic and then there is no need to start comparing the cost of the 454 Casull and the 50 Alaskan, right???


Exactly.
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Link Posted: 4/8/2005 3:23:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/8/2005 3:25:29 AM EST by Autobahndriver]

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Autobahndriver:
...wait, you quoted my post FIRST where I mentioned the .454 as a low cost alternative.
I explained that it would duplicate the ballistics and offer a large variety of bullet loadings although in a lever-gun platform.



No shit? Then I stated that since we were going to go OFF TOPIC, why not the 50 Alaskan?

Get it?

OFF TOPIC is OFF TOPIC......

Stay on topic and then there is no need to start comparing the cost of the 454 Casull and the 50 Alaskan, right???


Exactly.



Topic is advantages/disadvantages and cost was mentioned. If someone is looking for a package that has similar ballistics but cost was a large priority, I offered the .454 as an option if you were willing to go to a different platform but retain the same ballistics.

My reason for posting: LOW COST OPTION WITH SAME BALLISTICS as stated in the original post. The disadvantage is having to switch platform to go to lower cost.

No need for you to rail on my suggestion. Offering alternative lower cost suggestions if you have better ones would be great.

A suggestion that has the disadvantage of switching platform while not offering another great advantage such as HALF the cost doesn't seem to make sense. (I'll take two disadvantages please?)

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Link Posted: 4/8/2005 8:51:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/8/2005 8:53:12 AM EST by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By Autobahndriver:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Autobahndriver:
...wait, you quoted my post FIRST where I mentioned the .454 as a low cost alternative.
I explained that it would duplicate the ballistics and offer a large variety of bullet loadings although in a lever-gun platform.



No shit? Then I stated that since we were going to go OFF TOPIC, why not the 50 Alaskan?

Get it?

OFF TOPIC is OFF TOPIC......

Stay on topic and then there is no need to start comparing the cost of the 454 Casull and the 50 Alaskan, right???


Exactly.



Topic is advantages/disadvantages and cost was mentioned. If someone is looking for a package that has similar ballistics but cost was a large priority, I offered the .454 as an option if you were willing to go to a different platform but retain the same ballistics.

My reason for posting: LOW COST OPTION WITH SAME BALLISTICS as stated in the original post. The disadvantage is having to switch platform to go to lower cost.

No need for you to rail on my suggestion. Offering alternative lower cost suggestions if you have better ones would be great.

A suggestion that has the disadvantage of switching platform while not offering another great advantage such as HALF the cost doesn't seem to make sense. (I'll take two disadvantages please?)



Read.


Why not just get the 444Marlin or the 45/70 or the 450 Marlin at that point? I know that just about every store I go to has 45/70 ammo......I've never seen Casull ammo. YMMV......


Marlin 1894 in 45/70. Common ammunition; low initial weapon cost.

Silly me, I thought we were in an AR Variants section. You know, gas guns?
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Link Posted: 4/9/2005 7:55:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By passgas55:
I need the pros and cons of these 2 systems. I think anyone of these 2 systems will do good for a hog rifle in a swamp. Looks like the 50 Beowulf is a little cheaper and brass seems to be easier to get but the 458 has a wider selection of bullets. Or should I get something else.?



The LW .499 would be worth a look I am in the same boat waiting a while yet to see what
the LW advantage/disadvantage might be..

Though at the moment I am leaning towards the Wulf...

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Link Posted: 4/23/2005 4:49:58 PM EST
Another reason to look at the .458...













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CHECK OUT THE .458 VORTEX BUY ON THE EQUIPMENT EXCHANGE UNDER THE .458 SOCOM GROUP BUY!!!
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Link Posted: 5/2/2005 8:41:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/2/2005 10:51:53 AM EST by mousehunter]
Hey, quite dogging the poor, old, little Marlin . This last weekend, betweeen ar and ak mags, the little Marlin did a great job tenderizing my and my range buddies shoulders. I Guess I really should not have been trying to hit 2000 fps with a 450 grain pill. Someday, (probably after a lottery winning) I want to get an large bore upper, till then us poor folk got to make due with what's we got's.

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Link Posted: 6/6/2005 8:55:43 PM EST
Spooky,

what kind of hand guard do you have?

Ken

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Link Posted: 6/6/2005 11:04:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By racerken:
Spooky,
what kind of hand guard do you have?
Ken



Ken - that is the Daniel Defense we installed for him with the Badger gas block underneath

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Link Posted: 6/9/2005 7:41:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By MartytW:

Originally Posted By racerken:
Spooky,
what kind of hand guard do you have?
Ken



Ken - that is the Daniel Defense we installed for him with the Badger gas block underneath



And it just barely fit... That's a big barrel!

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CHECK OUT THE .458 VORTEX BUY ON THE EQUIPMENT EXCHANGE UNDER THE .458 SOCOM GROUP BUY!!!
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Link Posted: 6/11/2005 12:42:24 AM EST
Spooky stop with the pics! You're going to cost me a paycheck
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Link Posted: 6/13/2005 8:56:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Resq47:
Spooky stop with the pics! You're going to cost me a paycheck



It is only payback for what others here have done to me...

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"If it bleeds, we can kill it!"
CHECK OUT THE .458 VORTEX BUY ON THE EQUIPMENT EXCHANGE UNDER THE .458 SOCOM GROUP BUY!!!
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Link Posted: 6/21/2005 7:48:10 PM EST
I like the SOCOM features maybe I'll get one.
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Link Posted: 8/4/2005 11:01:21 PM EST
Ok, I'm going to be considering an upper in either 50 Beowulf or 458 SOCOM, but lean toward the 458, since I load, and I'd love the versatility in the bullets available.

Rock River Arms now produces an upper in 458 SOCOM, but don't list the price.

What do y'all think about that?
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Link Posted: 8/5/2005 1:51:37 AM EST
Excellent looking rifle Spooky. Ive been tinkering with the notion for the past couple days of putting together a big bore upper on a lower receiver.

Whats the capacity for it 10rd's?

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Link Posted: 8/5/2005 2:52:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
Ok, I'm going to be considering an upper in either 50 Beowulf or 458 SOCOM, but lean toward the 458, since I load, and I'd love the versatility in the bullets available.

Rock River Arms now produces an upper in 458 SOCOM, but don't list the price.

What do y'all think about that?



I don't think that the RRA's are available yet or will be in the immediate future. There is another thread that deals with it.

You could always get one from the guy that came up with it. He frequents this area a lot.

Chris

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Link Posted: 8/8/2005 2:09:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By kbi:
Excellent looking rifle Spooky. Ive been tinkering with the notion for the past couple days of putting together a big bore upper on a lower receiver.

Whats the capacity for it 10rd's?



IIRC, it is 7 rounds in a 20 round mag and 14 in a 30... But I'm thinking those are wrong... I normally load 10 in the 30 rounder so I can find all my brass.

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"If it bleeds, we can kill it!"

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Link Posted: 8/8/2005 11:49:01 PM EST
7 in a 20, 10 in a 30, 14 in a 40. 33 in a MWG 90-round drum ....

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Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:49:45 PM EST
What the heck is going on with LW and there supposed Hi Cap big bore mag? I have been out of touch with this site till this week and I cant find stuff on it, anyone know?
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If it bleeds, the 458 SOCOM can kill it

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Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:56:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cold:
What the heck is going on with LW and there supposed Hi Cap big bore mag? I have been out of touch with this site till this week and I cant find stuff on it, anyone know?



The Leitner-Wise gyze post over heah...

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Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:51:41 AM EST
Howdy. Interesting stuff so far. I'm looking for a big bore AR style rifle. I don't own any at this point. I was considering the .308, but think I prefer the .458 SOCOM. I've disregarded the .50 beowulf due to lack of range. What is the max range on the .458 SOCOM?

Also, where's a good place to get a rig like the ones pictured---they are cool!!! I've got a FFL awaiting my orders. I prefer all black, but not a must.

I have about $2,000 to spend and would like it fully equiped with optics, flashlight, and hi-cap mags (at least 3).

Cheers!!!

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Link Posted: 8/14/2005 3:12:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By SandW:
I've disregarded the .50 beowulf due to lack of range. What is the max range on the .458 SOCOM?



Practical max range of the Beowulf is very very short. The practical max range of the .458 SOCOM is very very short.

In other words, if you're concerned about max range, you shouldn't be looking at a big bore AR-15....

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Link Posted: 8/14/2005 3:34:06 PM EST
Wouldn't the .50 Beowulf be easier to reload and have longer lasting brass as it's a straight walled cartridge??

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Link Posted: 8/14/2005 4:29:21 PM EST
Anyone have an idea of the top effective range of the top 5 big bores in AR rifles? Range considering medium game such as moose, elk, or goat that is.

From what I see, .458 SOCOM and .50 Beowulf seem to be in there (but I may be wrong).

Also, any suggestions as the most versatile make/model of lower to be swapable with different complete uppers?

thanks....

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Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:05:54 PM EST
You can take down just about any game on this earth with the Beowulf , you just need to be at the proper range , prolly 200yd max . I'm sure I'm about to get flamed bad but I've got my fire suit on lol .

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Link Posted: 8/22/2005 10:53:26 PM EST
Have you thought of a 502 Thunder Sabre? The round is simular to the Beowulf but a little shorter and not so much recoil. I have the second thunder sabre ever manufactured and I love it. http://www.bigborecanyon.com/image3061.jpg Here is a link of me with my 502. groups.msn.com/theregulatorroom/rangeortacticaltrainingpics.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1594 I have been pondering selling it but I would hate to have it go since it is the second one made. Note the flames on the end of the barrel, CMA only made 2 Thunder Sabres with flames, 1 A2 style and my flattop A3, No other 502's have flames on the barrel.

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Link Posted: 9/4/2005 4:03:46 PM EST
Spooky your SOCOM is the shit! so did teppojustu do the build for you? Or did you just get a barrel from them or what...?

Basically, what do I do to have one like that.

Awesome.


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Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:14:15 AM EST
After reading this thread I have a few observations. I have a wide selection of reloading components available to load for my Beowulf but a 400 grain hunting bullet that performs in the field at slightly less than 200 yards on a Clydesdale size animal and cheap target bullets for practice on the 200 yard gong is all I need. Anything beyond those two selections doesn't mean didly sqat to me. Likewise the lack of loading data for the Beowulf bothered me but since I now have the two loads that fill my needs the rest is academic.
I've put close to 400 rounds through mine mostly on paper and gong without a problem and with the right load it will do very close to MOA. I may get a SOCOM to fill the "I don't have one of those " slot but untill then I can only comment as a spectator in that regard.

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Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:03:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By chewbacca:
Spooky your SOCOM is the shit! so did teppojustu do the build for you? Or did you just get a barrel from them or what...?

Basically, what do I do to have one like that.

Awesome.




Sorry for not seeing this sooner...

My SOCOM came from MartyW at Teppo Jutsu. It was one of the group buy uppers from last year. Here's the break down on parts:

DPMS Lo Pro upper
Lothar Walther 16" barrel threaded 5/8x24 TPI
DD 12.0 standard free float tube
Badger Low Profile gas block to fit .93" OD barrel and under the DD tube
Smith Enterprises Inc., semi-custom Vortex
Ameetec .458 SOCOM marked lower
Magpul MIAD grip
Magpul M93A2R stock (now wearing a standard A1 stock)

To get one just like it, contact Marty and he'll hook you up! I wonder if you could use some of the LaRue goodies on it - they are supposed to have very good rails. So far it shoots great, I had one minor problem that Marty fixed (gas block came off due to "experimental" nature of the set screw dimple and expoxy not quite holding it on - Marty has it all figured out now!).

Thanks for the compliment!
Spooky
"If it bleeds, we can kill it!"

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Link Posted: 10/6/2005 10:56:04 PM EST
I chose 458 Socom.



Thanks Marty!!! Thanks 458socom.com!!!



This Muzzle Brake is from Williams Gunsight in Michigan.

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Link Posted: 10/7/2005 5:24:49 AM EST
That there brake has sum fancy hole drill'n.
<img src=/images/smilies/anim_uzi.gif border=0 align=middle> FREEDOM IS NOT FREE
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Link Posted: 10/21/2005 9:38:48 AM EST
Kind of off the subject, but Spooky, did you by chance spend any time in the 4th SOS at Hurlburt? Judging by your handle, I'm inclined to think you did. 16th SOS guy myself.

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Link Posted: 11/30/2005 9:15:22 PM EST
I've been looking at a .50 beowulf upper as well. I have an extra Cavarms lower sitting around collecting dust, does anyone have any experience using a lightweight lower with a big bore upper?

Any insight would be appreciated.


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