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Posted: 6/6/2017 6:32:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Question, as the answer has really just been hinted at:
Is this a 14.5" barrel with KAC's E3 gas system length? If so, did it come that way from KAC, or was it modified by a third party? |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 6:40:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Question, as the answer has really just been hinted at: Is this a 14.5" barrel with KAC's E3 gas system length? If so, did it come that way from KAC, or was it modified by a third party? |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 6:43:24 PM EDT
[#3]
OP, send it back to KAC and let them look at it. I understand you're upset, but sending it back to where it was purchased from isn't going to help you.
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Posted: 6/6/2017 7:02:43 PM EDT
[#4]
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It is completely unmodified except for the swapping of the KAC flash hider for the Silencerco flash hider (before anyone asks, I never shot it suppressed). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Question, as the answer has really just been hinted at: Is this a 14.5" barrel with KAC's E3 gas system length? If so, did it come that way from KAC, or was it modified by a third party? |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 7:05:05 PM EDT
[#5]
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Watch OP disappear now. 
I'm still here. As I mentioned, I'm working with the retailer. If that doesn't work, I'll work with KAC. The difference between now and yesterday at this time is that KAC has offered to check out the rifle, which I appreciate. I don't have much more to say, so I probably will quiet down a little. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 7:13:47 PM EDT
[#6]
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I'll repeat the question: Is this a 14.5" barrel with KAC's gas system length? |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 7:25:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, send it back to KAC and let them look at it. I understand you're upset, but sending it back to where it was purchased from isn't going to help you. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 7:33:54 PM EDT
[#8]
This is turning into some kind of backwards Tooth and Nail thread. OP, send the gun to KA and let them check it out, what's the problem?
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Posted: 6/6/2017 7:47:11 PM EDT
[#9]
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I'm still here. As I mentioned, I'm working with the retailer. If that doesn't work, I'll work with KAC. The difference between now and yesterday at this time is that KAC has offered to check out the rifle, which I appreciate. I don't have much more to say, so I probably will quiet down a little. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 7:49:31 PM EDT
[#10]
(Summary)
Op provides us with a "public service announcement" about his rifle. KAC offers to "fix" it. He refuses. (Op's PSA so far) -"overpriced for that quality." -"NOT COMPATIBLE WITH XM193!!!!" -"However, I can't (and you shouldn't) trust this rifle." -"temperamental snowflake of a rifle that needs to be coddled with only PMC Bronze ammo." -" if anyone wants a KAC 14.5" upper that may get you killed, let me know. I have one for sale." -"There's no one else to blame it on if they're doing the production" -"a $2K gun that can't digest reasonable quality ammo." -"Do we think the "SR" "SR-15" stands for "Semi-Reliable" or "Speculatively-Risky"?" -"Buyer Beware." Does not take a detective to diagnose this thread. Interesting bits in red there I must say. ETA: This was worth it. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 7:50:13 PM EDT
[#11]
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If I replace it with something that shoots Federal XM193 (and PMC Bronze) reliably it will, especially if I save several hundred dollars in the process. OH I FORGOT!!!!!!! I used the exact same ammo out of my Echo-Trigger Equipped BCM Recce 16 range toy! Because it is a range toy I didn't even think of it, but I have close to a 1,000 out of that now, too. . . . not a single malfunction . . . and out of all the 5.56 rifles I own/have owned, if something were to malfunction, one might think that it would be that! Sitting here bashing the company while not allowing them to try and rectify the issue (something they've offered to do, for free, multiple times now) just makes you look like a tool and detracts from the "message" you're trying to convey with this thread. Obviously, it's your choice, but acting the way you're acting is making you look like a petulant child. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 7:53:44 PM EDT
[#12]
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Why are you working with who you bought it from? KAC provides the warranty service. Send it in and have them check it out. What are you waiting for? I bought it with the express purpose of being "the first rifle I would grab if I could could only grab one". I can't imagine it ever being anything other than the last at this point . . . so I'd rather not have it at all. That's why I'm not sending it back right now. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 7:55:10 PM EDT
[#13]
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I'm still here. As I mentioned, I'm working with the retailer. If that doesn't work, I'll work with KAC. The difference between now and yesterday at this time is that KAC has offered to check out the rifle, which I appreciate. I don't have much more to say, so I probably will quiet down a little. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Watch OP disappear now.
I'm still here. As I mentioned, I'm working with the retailer. If that doesn't work, I'll work with KAC. The difference between now and yesterday at this time is that KAC has offered to check out the rifle, which I appreciate. I don't have much more to say, so I probably will quiet down a little. 
Why not send it KAC? |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 7:57:17 PM EDT
[#14]
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I'm a One Strike guy. I don't have the time (your life may be different than mine) to beta-test products for companies. I could (and eventually may) send it back to KAC, but if I go that route, a) I'll never trust the rifle that doesn't work with XM193, and b) I don't think I should have to re-test it to try and make myself more comfortable. I bought it with the express purpose of being "the first rifle I would grab if I could could only grab one". I can't imagine it ever being anything other than the last at this point . . . so I'd rather not have it at all. That's why I'm not sending it back right now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why are you working with who you bought it from? KAC provides the warranty service. Send it in and have them check it out. What are you waiting for? I bought it with the express purpose of being "the first rifle I would grab if I could could only grab one". I can't imagine it ever being anything other than the last at this point . . . so I'd rather not have it at all. That's why I'm not sending it back right now. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 7:58:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
(Summary) Op provides us with a "public service announcement" about his rifle. KAC offers to "fix" it. He refuses. (Op's PSA so far) -"overpriced for that quality." -"NOT COMPATIBLE WITH XM193!!!!" -"However, I can't (and you shouldn't) trust this rifle." -"temperamental snowflake of a rifle that needs to be coddled with only PMC Bronze ammo." -" if anyone wants a KAC 14.5" upper that may get you killed, let me know. I have one for sale." -"There's no one else to blame it on if they're doing the production" -"a $2K gun that can't digest reasonable quality ammo." -"Do we think the "SR" "SR-15" stands for "Semi-Reliable" or "Speculatively-Risky"?" -"Buyer Beware." Does not take a detective to diagnose this thread. Interesting bits in red there I must say. Just imagine how much different all of this would have been if "Bill" would have said, "Oh shoot, that doesn't seem right, send it in and we'll check it out." Y'all would have never heard a peep from me. Instead, the BS (edit: BS as in "should not be the culprit"), "XM193 is the culprit" line came out. EVERYTHING ELSE has emanated from that. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 8:01:14 PM EDT
[#16]
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I'm a One Strike guy. I don't have the time (your life may be different than mine) to beta-test products for companies. I could (and eventually may) send it back to KAC, but if I go that route, a) I'll never trust the rifle that doesn't work with XM193, and b) I don't think I should have to re-test it to try and make myself more comfortable. I bought it with the express purpose of being "the first rifle I would grab if I could could only grab one". I can't imagine it ever being anything other than the last at this point . . . so I'd rather not have it at all. That's why I'm not sending it back right now. Now, that's all well and fine and it's 100% your choice, but that just further goes to prove this is nothing more than a "I want to cry" thread that has no technical merit and shouldn't be in this forum. If you're a "1 strike and I'm done" type of guy, that's all this thread has been from the beginning. 
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Posted: 6/6/2017 8:11:11 PM EDT
[#17]
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lol, then just request this thread be deleted. You are quite literally the only person I've ever seen who's had issues with M193 not functioning in an SR15, so it's not like this is a recurring issue with these rifles. Now, it very well may be an issue with the gun and occasionally every manufacturer has a bad item slip through QC. Usually, those companies will then step up and offer to fix the issue, which is exactly what's happening right now. The only catch is, you won't let them. Now, that's all well and fine and it's 100% your choice, but that just further goes to prove this is nothing more than a "I want to cry" thread that has no technical merit and shouldn't be in this forum. If you're a "1 strike and I'm done" type of guy, that's all this thread has been from the beginning. When they offered to take it back in, I said I would probably quiet down, but then certain folks decided to go ad-hominem, so it's had the opposite effect. You can disagree all you want, but I doubt too many of you, if you were in my shoes, would settle for a $2,000+ rifle that has to be "factory reconditioned." Oh, and I'm assuming you'll take KAC's at their word that they've also had XM193 issues, so I am no longer the "only person" with XM193 issues. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 8:36:08 PM EDT
[#18]
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Also, all XM193 is Federal/Lake City. Also, under "M193": IMI M193 |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 8:38:58 PM EDT
[#19]
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Believe it or not, I don't disagree with much of this. What needs to be highlighted is that WITHOUT THE THREAD IN THE FIRST PLACE, they never would have offered to take the rifle in. Now that the XM193 issue has been highlighted, they have offered to take it back in (which, again, is appreciated). Why does it take a public thread for a company to step up? Where I disagree is that this thread never was intended to be an "I want to cry" thread. Bill offered to edit the website to "warn" about XM193. I was just bringing it to the fore and seeing if anyone had ever had a similar issue (as he said it was pretty commonly-understood). When they offered to take it back in, I said I would probably quiet down, but then certain folks decided to go ad-hominem, so it's had the opposite effect. You can disagree all you want, but I doubt too many of you, if you were in my shoes, would settle for a $2,000+ rifle that has to be "factory reconditioned." Oh, and I'm assuming you'll take KAC's at their word that they've also had XM193 issues, so I am no longer the "only person" with XM193 issues. This, obviously, does not describe your issue, so it would appear what you are experiencing is an outlier and not the norm, hence their willingness to bring it back in to look at it. Listen, I understand your frustration and I've been there, but allowing your anger over the issue to interfere with getting the issue diagnosed and rectified (no matter the cause) does a disservice to everyone involved, including you. ETA: Also, while I wouldn't be entirely pleased with having to send something back to the manufacturer to be fixed, it does happen. It's not like you're having to take it to an outside gunsmith for repair. While having an issue doesn't inspire confidence, it really needs to be looked at as exactly what it is, which is a sample size of 1. As I've said, sometimes a bad egg slips through, but when looking at the entire picture (which is a rather large consumer base that rarely have issues), it should inspire confidence that they can and will rectify the issue, no matter what it is. No one is perfect, but IME, KAC knows what they're doing (like a lot of manufacturers that sometimes have issues crop up) and they will get you a product that functions as expected. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 8:42:35 PM EDT
[#20]
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Believe it or not, I don't disagree with much of this. What needs to be highlighted is that WITHOUT THE THREAD IN THE FIRST PLACE, they never would have offered to take the rifle in. Now that the XM193 issue has been highlighted, they have offered to take it back in (which, again, is appreciated). Why does it take a public thread for a company to step up? Where I disagree is that this thread never was intended to be an "I want to cry" thread. Bill offered to edit the website to "warn" about XM193. I was just bringing it to the fore and seeing if anyone had ever had a similar issue (as he said it was pretty commonly-understood). When they offered to take it back in, I said I would probably quiet down, but then certain folks decided to go ad-hominem, so it's had the opposite effect. You can disagree all you want, but I doubt too many of you, if you were in my shoes, would settle for a $2,000+ rifle that has to be "factory reconditioned." Oh, and I'm assuming you'll take KAC's at their word that they've also had XM193 issues, so I am no longer the "only person" with XM193 issues. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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lol, then just request this thread be deleted. You are quite literally the only person I've ever seen who's had issues with M193 not functioning in an SR15, so it's not like this is a recurring issue with these rifles. Now, it very well may be an issue with the gun and occasionally every manufacturer has a bad item slip through QC. Usually, those companies will then step up and offer to fix the issue, which is exactly what's happening right now. The only catch is, you won't let them. Now, that's all well and fine and it's 100% your choice, but that just further goes to prove this is nothing more than a "I want to cry" thread that has no technical merit and shouldn't be in this forum. If you're a "1 strike and I'm done" type of guy, that's all this thread has been from the beginning. When they offered to take it back in, I said I would probably quiet down, but then certain folks decided to go ad-hominem, so it's had the opposite effect. You can disagree all you want, but I doubt too many of you, if you were in my shoes, would settle for a $2,000+ rifle that has to be "factory reconditioned." Oh, and I'm assuming you'll take KAC's at their word that they've also had XM193 issues, so I am no longer the "only person" with XM193 issues.
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Posted: 6/6/2017 9:10:56 PM EDT
[#21]
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I'm a One Strike guy. I don't have the time (your life may be different than mine) to beta-test products for companies. I could (and eventually may) send it back to KAC, but if I go that route, a) I'll never trust the rifle that doesn't work with XM193, and b) I don't think I should have to re-test it to try and make myself more comfortable. I bought it with the express purpose of being "the first rifle I would grab if I could could only grab one". I can't imagine it ever being anything other than the last at this point . . . so I'd rather not have it at all. That's why I'm not sending it back right now. Man up and send the rifle to KAC and let them take care of it. If they don't, then you have a legitimate gripe. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 10:07:23 PM EDT
[#22]
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I appreciate that, and if things don't work out with the original vendor, I will take you up on this. To be clear, though, Bill (thank you for finding out his name!) did NOT offer to take it in to check. No. This thread has moved quickly, but I detailed that above. Again, please see above, but yes, absolutely. Not only on the very same day (same atmospherics, etc) with my SBR CZ Bren (zero malfunctions, except where I interfered with the reciprocating charging handle with my sling), but on prior days with my LWRCs and the Bren (zero malfunctions). Either send the rifle in so KAC can check it out or sell it...but quit complaining. I had an issue which KAC took care of for me after sending the rifle back. Bitching on the internet won't fix it. Ill trade you a Colt 6920 for it. Works great with XM193. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 10:24:59 PM EDT
[#23]
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I feel like there is a disconnect here. What did you interpret my answer to be? We recommend against LC M193 due to a propensity to lose primers in some lots (along with a smattering of other issues, none of which are specific to KAC), which will potentially render any firearm inoperable, and potentially damage the rifle. We then repeatedly offered to bring the rifle in under warranty for evaluation. It is possible that there is an issue, and we want to find it and fix it if there is. My sales associate (not representative) mis-spoke to the customer about incompatibility. That was a mistake. That misunderstanding has been corrected. Any in-spec 5.56 or .223 ammunition SHOULD run an SR-15. Low spectrum stuff like Wolf may show issues, depending on circumstance. Anything at or above PMC 55gr Bronze line will be just fine from a functional standpoint. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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KAC gave you your answer. In my opinion it is a rather lame one, but they have doubled down on it, so there you go OP. Comparing their response to other vendors that are quite popular on this site is rather telling. I would sell it and move on. Thank you for posting this as I just recently considering purchasing a KAC rifle to see what all the hype was about. I still may buy one, but at least now I wont have any illusions. Oh yeah, OP, you know what you have to do. http://oi39.tinypic.com/1t3g28.jpg What did you interpret my answer to be? We recommend against LC M193 due to a propensity to lose primers in some lots (along with a smattering of other issues, none of which are specific to KAC), which will potentially render any firearm inoperable, and potentially damage the rifle. We then repeatedly offered to bring the rifle in under warranty for evaluation. It is possible that there is an issue, and we want to find it and fix it if there is. My sales associate (not representative) mis-spoke to the customer about incompatibility. That was a mistake. That misunderstanding has been corrected. Any in-spec 5.56 or .223 ammunition SHOULD run an SR-15. Low spectrum stuff like Wolf may show issues, depending on circumstance. Anything at or above PMC 55gr Bronze line will be just fine from a functional standpoint. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 10:28:20 PM EDT
[#24]
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Bullshit. Anyone can put out a lemon (assuming that's what this is). As evidenced, you only wanted to bitch about it and not you're interested in resolving your issue. Drama llama! Man up and send the rifle to KAC and let them take care of it. If they don't, then you have a legitimate gripe. Fact: Four ( FOUR!!!!) separate rifles, two of which were considerably cheaper than the KAC, significantly outperformed the KAC with the same exact ammo. Fact: (with respect to the statement about putting out lemons): KAC's website says that they test "every product manufactured" to "scrutinized all aspects of the platform." So, either their representations aren't true, or their processes are inadequate. (Not necessarily fact: Based on my conversations with KAC, I don't think this is an outlier/lemon....Bill was WAYYYYY to quick to zero in on the ammo issue, and stuck to it like a dog with a bone when I was searching for alternative explanations). Query for @Jack_L : how many rounds would KAC need to put through a Lemon to confirm that it has been corrected? |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 10:34:54 PM EDT
[#25]
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For the love of God..... Either send the rifle in so KAC can check it out or sell it...but quit complaining. I had an issue which KAC took care of for me after sending the rifle back. Bitching on the internet won't fix it. Ill trade you a Colt 6920 for it. Works great with XM193. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 10:40:02 PM EDT
[#26]
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The fact that you don't see this exhausts me more. He never would have posted on here if these basic customer service rules were followed on his initial phone call. "We're sorry, we make an awesome product, you happiness is very important to us. Send us your KAC and we will do whatever necessary to make it right." Then STFU. It's not complicated. Yes, now you are trying to explain why your employee was right to say what he said xm193 culprit, while at the same time now doing what should have been done from the start. I really don't care but you felt the need to challenge my post so, Covfefe. It's understandable to me, but like I said before, I will still consider a KAC in the future. I just understand why OP is now disillusioned with you company. He sounds like he can afford to buy whatever he likes and expects premium service along with the premium product and prices.
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Posted: 6/6/2017 10:41:09 PM EDT
[#27]
I'd be complaining too OP. Every $400 AR-15 can shoot M193, so a $2k gun should be able to do it, and the fact that it can't is astounding. I'd return it in a heartbeat and go buy three or four PSA rifles that work. It's weird that one of the most expensive AR-15 manufacturers tells you to shoot the cheapest brass ammo on the market for it to be reliable. Just weird.
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Posted: 6/6/2017 10:57:20 PM EDT
[#28]
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He literally stated "my employee misspoke." Not quite sure where you're getting that he's trying to explain how the employee was right when he clearly stated the exact opposite. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The fact that you don't see this exhausts me more. He never would have posted on here if these basic customer service rules were followed on his initial phone call. "We're sorry, we make an awesome product, you happiness is very important to us. Send us your KAC and we will do whatever necessary to make it right." Then STFU. It's not complicated. Yes, now you are trying to explain why your employee was right to say what he said xm193 culprit, while at the same time now doing what should have been done from the start. I really don't care but you felt the need to challenge my post so, Covfefe. It's understandable to me, but like I said before, I will still consider a KAC in the future. I just understand why OP is now disillusioned with you company. He sounds like he can afford to buy whatever he likes and expects premium service along with the premium product and prices. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 11:01:12 PM EDT
[#29]
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I'd be complaining too OP. Every $400 AR-15 can shoot M193, so a $2k gun should be able to do it, and the fact that it can't is astounding. I'd return it in a heartbeat and go buy three or four PSA rifles that work. It's weird that one of the most expensive AR-15 manufacturers tells you to shoot the cheapest brass ammo on the market for it to be reliable. Just weird. Everything else has already been cleared up. The KAC rep that OP spoke to was misinformed/explained things wrong. Jack L said that "Bill" the rep had been corrected since. Google "M193 problems" and you'll see that problems with M193 (IMI / Independence especially) are not unheard of. OP is stubborn and unrelenting, and because "Bill" hurt his feelings he's not willing to give the mfg a chance to check out his rifle. Maybe the gas port is oversized! Who knows? Shit happens. But OP is making it impossible to help him and coming across as a teen throwing a temper tantrum because mom got the wrong kind of pop tarts. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 11:07:49 PM EDT
[#30]
I purchased 1k of xm193 (federal lake City mind you) and had 1 round induce a baffle strike in my FA556-212. Had to have my silencer re-cored by Surefire, where they determined my upper and mount were not to blame but it was indeed the round.
After getting the silencer back, I ended up with a mag from that batch of 1k in a class. I ended up getting a end cap strike, which fortunately is just cosmetic. My point to this is that two rounds in the entire batch of 1k were bad. You had 7, it happens. Personally I'm never purchasing XM193 again, after a solid baffle strike and then reoccurring with an end cap strike. Being recommended against use isn't the same as "will not work". |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 11:21:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Boy this has sure turned out to be one of those Cluster Da Fuk threads..
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Posted: 6/6/2017 11:27:03 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Also, all XM193 is Federal/Lake City. Also, under "M193": IMI M193 Independence is an ATK brand, ATK = Federal = Lake City It even says on the page "Made by ATK the Independance brand reflects all the positive aspects of Federal, Blazer and Lake City made ammunition at a value brand price" I never said anything about M193, thats a military designation. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 11:31:50 PM EDT
[#33]
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OP is stubborn and unrelenting, and because "Bill" hurt his feelings he's not willing to give the mfg a chance to check out his rifle. Maybe the gas port is oversized! Who knows? Shit happens. But OP is making it impossible to help him and coming across as a teen throwing a temper tantrum because mom got the wrong kind of pop tarts. Does trying to diminish me by saying that "Bill hurt my feelings" somehow make you feel big, powerful and strong? It's just not the way that I handle things. Facts and logic, not ad hominem attacks, rudeness and emotion. Those sorts of things are the tools the Diane Feinsteins and Michael Bloombergs to confuse the hearts and minds of the weak. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 11:36:17 PM EDT
[#34]
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Why do you insist on being mean? If you read through the thread, I have said nothing negative about Bill....quite the opposite. I said he was cordial, prompt and seemed knowledgeable. Jack L said he was wrong, not me. Does trying to diminish me by saying that "Bill hurt my feelings" somehow make you feel big, powerful and strong? It's just not the way that I handle things. Facts and logic, not ad hominem attacks, rudeness and emotion. Those sorts of things are the tools the Diane Feinsteins and Michael Bloombergs to confuse the hearts and minds of the weak. 
You also seem to be intentionally skipping over the information being provided to you in this thread by KAC, something that I'm sure is fueled by emotion or something else (I'm starting to suspect there's some sort of agenda here). Not exactly what I'd call a very smart decision, but hopefully it works out for you. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 11:39:31 PM EDT
[#35]
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Why do you insist on being mean? If you read through the thread, I have said nothing negative about Bill....quite the opposite. I said he was cordial, prompt and seemed knowledgeable. Jack L said he was wrong, not me. Does trying to diminish me by saying that "Bill hurt my feelings" somehow make you feel big, powerful and strong? It's just not the way that I handle things. Facts and logic, not ad hominem attacks, rudeness and emotion. Those sorts of things are the tools the Diane Feinsteins and Michael Bloombergs to confuse the hearts and minds of the weak. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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OP is stubborn and unrelenting, and because "Bill" hurt his feelings he's not willing to give the mfg a chance to check out his rifle. Maybe the gas port is oversized! Who knows? Shit happens. But OP is making it impossible to help him and coming across as a teen throwing a temper tantrum because mom got the wrong kind of pop tarts. Does trying to diminish me by saying that "Bill hurt my feelings" somehow make you feel big, powerful and strong? It's just not the way that I handle things. Facts and logic, not ad hominem attacks, rudeness and emotion. Those sorts of things are the tools the Diane Feinsteins and Michael Bloombergs to confuse the hearts and minds of the weak.
Send it back. Let them look at it. My guess is it is operator error! |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 11:40:06 PM EDT
[#36]
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Yes I'm sure. Independence is an ATK brand, ATK = Federal = Lake City It even says on the page "Made by ATK the Independance brand reflects all the positive aspects of Federal, Blazer and Lake City made ammunition at a value brand price" I never said anything about M193, thats a military designation. And 100% for certain not stamped with the Lake City nor the NATO Cross. Also, KAC actually agrees with me, calling it a marketing term and not an actual product spec. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 11:44:29 PM EDT
[#37]
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I think (could be wrong, but I don't think I am) I fully answered your question. To my knowledge, KAC only makes one 14.5" E3 Mod 2 (one in Keymod, one in MLok, but the only difference is the rail), which comes with their straight "intermediate" length gas system. So, if I said that it is unmodified, one could deduce that it is that system. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll repeat the question: Is this a 14.5" barrel with KAC's gas system length? What your non-answer seems to indicate is that it is indeed a 14.5 inch barrel with KAC's long gas system length. FYI, KAC's length is NOT "Intermediate" as that is something else. KAC's gas system length is much too long for a 14.5" barrel. You have a gas system + barrel length configuration that will be sensitive to ammo variation. I would recommend nothing longer than a midlength gas system for a general use 14.5" AR barrel. With all that said, double feed is typically not a symptom of insufficient energy. I don't believe you have really explained exactly what the malfunctions are either, despite several requests to more correctly describe what is happening. A true double feed (two live rounds in the action during the feed cycle) is almost always a magazine problem. If you have an empty case in the action while it's trying to feed the next round (not a double feed, but sometimes described as such) there are several possibilities as to what it might be. I realize you are unhappy about your situation. You spent a lot of money on a rifle, and seem to be under the impression that that would guarantee you a super-reliable firearm. People are trying to help you but you're being dismissive of most everyone. I would suggest that you stow the chip on your shoulder and not take your frustration out on the people trying to assist. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 11:45:54 PM EDT
[#38]
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So I will touch on a few points here. 1. Can KAC rifles handle Mil-Standard Ammo Yes 100% absolutely they can 2. Do we recommend XM193/M193 Generally we don't. There are no current Mil contracts for "XM193/M193" ammunition. At this point its simply a "product name" that companies use to sell lower cost ammunition. QC on most XM193/M193 has been thrown out the window. This leads to over pressured ammunition, popped primers, brass deformations, and lowered accuracy standards. 3. We do test all SR-15's with PMC Bronze The reason for this is two fold. First is the consistently round to round, case to case, and lot to lot is exceptional. Its that happy middle ground in terms of velocity & pressure. Secondly is the availability of PMC in the commercial market place. Hope this helps. Please let me know if you need us to bring your upper in for inspection. Ill get you an RMA and a Call Tag, if you want. PMC Bronze Test |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 11:48:25 PM EDT
[#39]
KAC...........really
OP sell it and buy a $500 AR that will eat everything..........especially the inconsistant m193. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:03:54 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What your non-answer seems to indicate is that it is indeed a 14.5 inch barrel with KAC's long gas system length. FYI, KAC's length is NOT "Intermediate" as that is something else. KAC E3 Mod 2 14.5" I'll wait for your apology. And, I said at least three times that it was a double feed, and clearly over and over said it was not fte ftex. I even tried to help you out because it seemed like you didn't k is what a double feed was. Maybe we were two ships passing in the night, but a double feed is a double feed is a double feed. It is not an fte or ftex. I didn't think I needed to describe it as "two live rounds trying to occupy the same space". I think if you reread my posts, it will be abundantly clear to you. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:05:52 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should probably tell KAC that, because they specifically say that it is on the page for my rifle: KAC E3 Mod 2 14.5" I'll wait for your apology. And, I said at least three times that it was a double feed, and clearly over and over said it was not fte ftex. I even tried to help you out because it seemed like you didn't k is what a double feed was. Maybe we were two ships passing in the night, but a double feed is a double feed is a double feed. It is not an fte or ftex. I didn't think I needed to describe it as "two live rounds trying to occupy the same space". I think if you reread my posts, it will be abundantly clear to you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What your non-answer seems to indicate is that it is indeed a 14.5 inch barrel with KAC's long gas system length. FYI, KAC's length is NOT "Intermediate" as that is something else. KAC E3 Mod 2 14.5" I'll wait for your apology. And, I said at least three times that it was a double feed, and clearly over and over said it was not fte ftex. I even tried to help you out because it seemed like you didn't k is what a double feed was. Maybe we were two ships passing in the night, but a double feed is a double feed is a double feed. It is not an fte or ftex. I didn't think I needed to describe it as "two live rounds trying to occupy the same space". I think if you reread my posts, it will be abundantly clear to you.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:10:34 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a magazine issue... |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:29:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most of the time...not all. KAC said it was ammo. There, now we're full circle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That's a magazine issue...
What you are claiming makes no sense. My guess is you are a 
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:43:14 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've actively traded Orbital/ATK on the market, so I'm pretty familiar with the relationship between ATK and Federal. But I'm also pretty certain (not 100%) that Independence does NOT use Lake City Brass. the independence stuff is made in Israel and imported by FCC, And 100% for certain not stamped with the Lake City nor the NATO Cross. Also, KAC actually agrees with me, calling it a marketing term and not an actual product spec. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:50:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't give a flying f about what model handguard is on the rifle. I asked a simple question. I don't want to deduce anything, I don't have KAC's model lineup memorized and have no need to do so. Just needed an answer to a simple question so as to give reasonable advice. What your non-answer seems to indicate is that it is indeed a 14.5 inch barrel with KAC's long gas system length. FYI, KAC's length is NOT "Intermediate" as that is something else. KAC's gas system length is much too long for a 14.5" barrel. You have a gas system + barrel length configuration that will be sensitive to ammo variation. I would recommend nothing longer than a midlength gas system for a general use 14.5" AR barrel. They proprietary system was designed for 14.5 SR16s |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:04:29 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should probably tell KAC that, because they specifically say that it is on the page for my rifle: KAC E3 Mod 2 14.5" I'll wait for your apology. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What your non-answer seems to indicate is that it is indeed a 14.5 inch barrel with KAC's long gas system length. FYI, KAC's length is NOT "Intermediate" as that is something else. KAC E3 Mod 2 14.5" I'll wait for your apology.  Attached FileThere are generic uses of words like "carbine", but there are also specific meanings. In this case, they are using a generic use of the term "intermediate" when it is deceptive, because there is an alternative specific meaning of the term "Intermediate". I was trying to make you aware of the difference so as to both inform you and to correct any other misunderstandings that might result from the information presented. I'll wait for your apology. And, I said at least three times that it was a double feed, and clearly over and over said it was not fte ftex. I even tried to help you out because it seemed like you didn't k is what a double feed was. Maybe we were two ships passing in the night, but a double feed is a double feed is a double feed. It is not an fte or ftex. I didn't think I needed to describe it as "two live rounds trying to occupy the same space". I think if you reread my posts, it will be abundantly clear to you. The only response you gave to the several people trying to confirm what exactly was going on with your rifle was a link to a webpage. On that webpage there are photos of malfunctions but under "double feed" there is no distinction between live rounds and empty cases, in fact one of their photos appears to show one empty case and one live round. Also as I mentioned before, a true double feed is almost always a magazine problem. I can't conceptualize a way for an ammo issue of any kind to cause a true double feed. You also described that you were using a Magpul P-Mag marked "DRS-4". I'm not familiar with that marking on any variant of Magpul PMag, although admittedly I do not own all of them. Quoted:
They proprietary system was designed for 14.5 SR16s |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 2:04:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Holy fuck
Send the fucking thing to KAC and let them fix it. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 2:37:51 AM EDT
[#48]
Shit, this thread got out of control. OP if you don't want to send it in, just post it on EE. I'm sure it will go fast since it's, KAC.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 2:43:51 AM EDT
[#49]
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That's a red-herring. The purpose of the lambo is not to digest most of what it is given. The point of the KAC is. Would you be upset if you bought a Lambo and found out that it maxed out at 80MPH, or couldn't handle corners at speed? I bet you would. But I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find that my highly tuned Lambo ran like shit on 87 octane gas. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:41:32 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell yes. But I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find that my highly tuned Lambo ran like shit on 87 octane gas. 
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