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Posted: 1/22/2016 12:57:00 PM EDT
[#1]
There are a couple companies with a guarantee of sub moa with match ammo or your money back. Rainier Arms, Micro Moa, Mega Arms are a couple well below $500, pick one in your price range and enjoy.
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Posted: 1/22/2016 1:06:10 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 1/22/2016 3:30:45 PM EDT
[#3]
If you aren't in a hurry and can hang tight, LaRue did a few sales last year on their barrels. Went as low as $200. With some luck, maybe we will see some sales again this year.
If you're not in a hurry, they are the absolute best performance for the money in my opinion. On the other hand, a lot of people jumped on the sales when they were available. Check out the EE and you can still find them popping up in the $200-300 range, depending on the length and style you're looking for. |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 3:36:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you aren't in a hurry and can hang tight, LaRue did a few sales last year on their barrels. Went as low as $200. With some luck, maybe we will see some sales again this year. If you're not in a hurry, they are the absolute best performance for the money in my opinion. On the other hand, a lot of people jumped on the sales when they were available. Check out the EE and you can still find them popping up in the $200-300 range, depending on the length and style you're looking for. im not really looking at the moment , more of a question based on prices ive been seeing. i did get one of those sale larue barrels when they were on sale though, just cuz 
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Posted: 1/22/2016 3:39:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
im not really looking at the moment , more of a question based on prices ive been seeing. i did get one of those sale larue barrels when they were on sale though, just cuz Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you aren't in a hurry and can hang tight, LaRue did a few sales last year on their barrels. Went as low as $200. With some luck, maybe we will see some sales again this year. If you're not in a hurry, they are the absolute best performance for the money in my opinion. On the other hand, a lot of people jumped on the sales when they were available. Check out the EE and you can still find them popping up in the $200-300 range, depending on the length and style you're looking for. im not really looking at the moment , more of a question based on prices ive been seeing. i did get one of those sale larue barrels when they were on sale though, just cuz Ballistic Advantage. Some sales they go for ~$100. They guarantee MOA or better on every barrel they sell. |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 4:06:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you aren't in a hurry and can hang tight, LaRue did a few sales last year on their barrels. Went as low as $200. With some luck, maybe we will see some sales again this year. If you're not in a hurry, they are the absolute best performance for the money in my opinion. On the other hand, a lot of people jumped on the sales when they were available. Check out the EE and you can still find them popping up in the $200-300 range, depending on the length and style you're looking for. This. I wasn't looking to buy, but LaRue had a sale I couldn't refuse last November - Stealth barrel, MBT trigger, polymer combo package for $500. So that is now my latest build project. I'm calling it my "sniper build." |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 4:08:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ballistic Advantage. Some sales they go for ~$100. They guarantee MOA or better on every barrel they sell. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you aren't in a hurry and can hang tight, LaRue did a few sales last year on their barrels. Went as low as $200. With some luck, maybe we will see some sales again this year. If you're not in a hurry, they are the absolute best performance for the money in my opinion. On the other hand, a lot of people jumped on the sales when they were available. Check out the EE and you can still find them popping up in the $200-300 range, depending on the length and style you're looking for. im not really looking at the moment , more of a question based on prices ive been seeing. i did get one of those sale larue barrels when they were on sale though, just cuz Ballistic Advantage. Some sales they go for ~$100. They guarantee MOA or better on every barrel they sell. |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 4:12:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their MOA guarantee isn't much of a guarantee. 5 rounds single loaded or 3 loaded from a magazine. I'm not saying their poor shooters, but I wouldn't expect match performance from them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you aren't in a hurry and can hang tight, LaRue did a few sales last year on their barrels. Went as low as $200. With some luck, maybe we will see some sales again this year. If you're not in a hurry, they are the absolute best performance for the money in my opinion. On the other hand, a lot of people jumped on the sales when they were available. Check out the EE and you can still find them popping up in the $200-300 range, depending on the length and style you're looking for. im not really looking at the moment , more of a question based on prices ive been seeing. i did get one of those sale larue barrels when they were on sale though, just cuz Ballistic Advantage. Some sales they go for ~$100. They guarantee MOA or better on every barrel they sell. If they're consistent, they will outshoot the overwhelmingly vast majority of shooters
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Posted: 1/22/2016 4:20:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they're consistent, they will outshoot the overwhelmingly vast majority of shooters Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you aren't in a hurry and can hang tight, LaRue did a few sales last year on their barrels. Went as low as $200. With some luck, maybe we will see some sales again this year. If you're not in a hurry, they are the absolute best performance for the money in my opinion. On the other hand, a lot of people jumped on the sales when they were available. Check out the EE and you can still find them popping up in the $200-300 range, depending on the length and style you're looking for. im not really looking at the moment , more of a question based on prices ive been seeing. i did get one of those sale larue barrels when they were on sale though, just cuz Ballistic Advantage. Some sales they go for ~$100. They guarantee MOA or better on every barrel they sell. If they're consistent, they will outshoot the overwhelmingly vast majority of shooters |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 5:17:42 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ballistic Advantage. Some sales they go for ~$100. They guarantee MOA or better on every barrel they sell.Their MOA guarantee isn't much of a guarantee. 5 rounds single loaded or 3 loaded from a magazine. I'm not saying their poor shooters, but I wouldn't expect match performance from them. OP didn't request a match grade barrel in the thread title or his OP..........he is looking for a sub MOA barrel. If a Colt M4 barrel will shoot sub MOA, I know for a fact that BA barrels will too.....did I mention I own two of them? 
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Posted: 1/22/2016 5:21:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP didn't request a match grade barrel in the thread title or his OP..........he is looking for sub MOA barrel. There are several reports of sub moa accuracy from BA. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ballistic Advantage. Some sales they go for ~$100. They guarantee MOA or better on every barrel they sell.Their MOA guarantee isn't much of a guarantee. 5 rounds single loaded or 3 loaded from a magazine. I'm not saying their poor shooters, but I wouldn't expect match performance from them. OP didn't request a match grade barrel in the thread title or his OP..........he is looking for sub MOA barrel. There are several reports of sub moa accuracy from BA. |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 5:22:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And their guarantee is that three rounds will happen to be within 1 MOA, but how many times will they shoot it to get that result? I'm not sure they would shoot as good as a stock Colt M4A1 barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ballistic Advantage. Some sales they go for ~$100. They guarantee MOA or better on every barrel they sell.Their MOA guarantee isn't much of a guarantee. 5 rounds single loaded or 3 loaded from a magazine. I'm not saying their poor shooters, but I wouldn't expect match performance from them. OP didn't request a match grade barrel in the thread title or his OP..........he is looking for sub MOA barrel. There are several reports of sub moa accuracy from BA. Do you own a Colt or BA barreled AR? What experience do you have with either manufacturer? |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 5:31:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you own a Colt or BA barreled AR? What experience do you have with either manufacturer? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ballistic Advantage. Some sales they go for ~$100. They guarantee MOA or better on every barrel they sell.Their MOA guarantee isn't much of a guarantee. 5 rounds single loaded or 3 loaded from a magazine. I'm not saying their poor shooters, but I wouldn't expect match performance from them. OP didn't request a match grade barrel in the thread title or his OP..........he is looking for sub MOA barrel. There are several reports of sub moa accuracy from BA. Do you own a Colt or BA barreled AR? What experience do you have with either manufacturer?  ETA: He got 1.45 MOA with a 10 shot group. |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 7:01:19 PM EDT
[#14]
What ammo was used with the BA test?
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Posted: 1/22/2016 7:39:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What ammo was used with the BA test? |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 8:08:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ADI 55gr BlitzKings. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What ammo was used with the BA test? My 18" BA spr barrel hates 55grainers.....77g SSA and XM855 on the other hand has performed well. |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 10:04:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My 18" BA spr barrel hates 55grainers.....77g SSA and XM855 on the other hand has performed well. 
Even when tested from machine-rested, bolt-action, heavy test barrels, Lake City M855 can barely hold 3 MOA on a good day. 
.... |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 10:07:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Australian Outback Sierra 55 Grain BlitzKing
When chronographed from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel over an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “Proof Screen Technology”, the Australian Outback Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing load had a muzzle velocity of 2972 FPS with a standard deviation of 20 FPS. A 10-shot group fired off the bench at a distance of 100 yards from one of my AR-15s with a Krieger barrel that has a 223 Remington chamber and a 1:9" twist had an extreme spread of 0.98". 
I also fired another 10-shot group of the Australian Outback load from one of my AR-15s with a Krieger barrel that has a 5.56mm match chamber and a 1:7.7" twist. That group had an extreme spread of 0.92". 
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Posted: 1/23/2016 12:16:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even when tested from machine-rested, bolt-action, heavy test barrels, Lake City M855 can barely hold 3 MOA on a good day. https://app.box.com/shared/static/p0mvkjxmhm.jpg .... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My 18" BA spr barrel hates 55grainers.....77g SSA and XM855 on the other hand has performed well.
Even when tested from machine-rested, bolt-action, heavy test barrels, Lake City M855 can barely hold 3 MOA on a good day. https://app.box.com/shared/static/p0mvkjxmhm.jpg .... Do you have results for Federal XM855 through an 18" Ballistic Advantage spr or 16" Ranier Arms match barrel (both 1:7)? I can tell you, that 855 will definitely do better than "barely holding" 3 MOA at 100 yards......why, because I've done it. You are using 1:9 twist Colt HBAR or "clone" spec 16" barrels and shooting 3x10 shot groups, which even though this is the same across the board with all your testing, is hardly ideal for precision shooting and getting the most out of different ammunition. |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 12:31:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have results for Federal XM855 through an 18" Ballistic Advantage spr or 16" Ranier Arms match barrel (both 1:7)? I can tell you, that 855 will definitely do better than "barely holding" 3 MOA at 100 yards. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My 18" BA spr barrel hates 55grainers.....77g SSA and XM855 on the other hand has performed well.
Even when tested from machine-rested, bolt-action, heavy test barrels, Lake City M855 can barely hold 3 MOA on a good day. https://app.box.com/shared/static/p0mvkjxmhm.jpg .... Do you have results for Federal XM855 through an 18" Ballistic Advantage spr or 16" Ranier Arms match barrel (both 1:7)? I can tell you, that 855 will definitely do better than "barely holding" 3 MOA at 100 yards. Don't just sit there in your mom's basement typing on your keyboard. Post some pics of your 10-shot groups fired from your BA barrel (since that was what you made your original claim about) a distance of 100 yards using XM855. ... 
.... |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 12:45:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Australian Outback Sierra 55 Grain BlitzKing https://app.box.com/shared/static/g0bknj06i3eqj53dst6xf8djkntan5su.jpg When chronographed from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel over an Oehler 35-P chronograph with "Proof Screen Technology”, the Australian Outback Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing load had a muzzle velocity of 2972 FPS with a standard deviation of 20 FPS. A 10-shot group fired off the bench at a distance of 100 yards from one of my AR-15s with a Krieger barrel that has a 223 Remington chamber and a 1:9" twist had an extreme spread of 0.98". https://app.box.com/shared/static/58u4s0pjhzas44k9xwxarwk516hvuv2s.jpg I also fired another 10-shot group of the Australian Outback load from one of my AR-15s with a Krieger barrel that has a 5.56mm match chamber and a 1:7.7" twist. That group had an extreme spread of 0.92". https://app.box.com/shared/static/sn7qht670gtoavpc88dyx908vl5ydzfu.jpg ..... It's my favorite varmint load too. |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 12:46:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Some interesting results: All better groups than what you were able to achieve.
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2012/9/4/green-tip-accuracy-test/ https://survivalblog.com/scots-product-review-federal-ammunition/ http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2014/5/21/testing-the-army-s-m855a1-standard-ball-cartridge/ |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 12:48:54 AM EDT
[#23]
For reference, my BA and a 10-shot group with the same AD1 ammo.
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Posted: 1/23/2016 3:44:50 AM EDT
[#24]
With the shooters in this thread, this thread has really grabbed my interest. I'm looking for a 16" fluted precision barrel, I just want flutes for the look of the rifle I'm building.
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Posted: 1/23/2016 12:33:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the shooters in this thread, this thread has really grabbed my interest. I'm looking for a 16" fluted precision barrel, I just want flutes for the look of the rifle I'm building. Check Rainier Arms. |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 12:39:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the shooters in this thread, this thread has really grabbed my interest. I'm looking for a 16" fluted precision barrel, I just want flutes for the look of the rifle I'm building. How accurate does it need to be? Is just over 1 MOA acceptable, just under 1 MOA or sub 3/4 MOA? |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 12:55:58 PM EDT
[#27]
I got a 18" BA barrel on a black Friday deal. I'm just waiting to get my m5 upper I ordered 2 weeks ago from aero to come in. Once I get it mounted I'll post up some 5 and 10 shot groups.
Tag for other results. |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 1:35:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Wow this thread really took off. I was asking more because a lot of these barrels are pushing 5 bills, but aren't guaranteed sub half moa, ( larue does ) . Rainier arms ultra match barrels are only guaranteed for sub moa. BA does too and those are cheaper depending what you get
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Posted: 1/23/2016 1:48:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How accurate does it need to be? Is just over 1 MOA acceptable, just under 1 MOA or sub 3/4 MOA? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With the shooters in this thread, this thread has really grabbed my interest. I'm looking for a 16" fluted precision barrel, I just want flutes for the look of the rifle I'm building. How accurate does it need to be? Is just over 1 MOA acceptable, just under 1 MOA or sub 3/4 MOA? Flutes are expensive, but WOA has what you want, if you want sub MOA... http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17672&cat=312&page=1 |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 2:21:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How accurate does it need to be? Is just over 1 MOA acceptable, just under 1 MOA or sub 3/4 MOA? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With the shooters in this thread, this thread has really grabbed my interest. I'm looking for a 16" fluted precision barrel, I just want flutes for the look of the rifle I'm building. How accurate does it need to be? Is just over 1 MOA acceptable, just under 1 MOA or sub 3/4 MOA? I want to hold off on the BA fluted barrel that they've teased about building, I want a sub MOA 16" barrel under 30 ounces(am I asking for to much?). |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 5:58:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Check Rainier Arms. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With the shooters in this thread, this thread has really grabbed my interest. I'm looking for a 16" fluted precision barrel, I just want flutes for the look of the rifle I'm building. Check Rainier Arms. and WOA. |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 6:01:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The stuff shoots, don't it? It's my favorite varmint load too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Australian Outback Sierra 55 Grain BlitzKing https://app.box.com/shared/static/g0bknj06i3eqj53dst6xf8djkntan5su.jpg When chronographed from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel over an Oehler 35-P chronograph with "Proof Screen Technology”, the Australian Outback Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing load had a muzzle velocity of 2972 FPS with a standard deviation of 20 FPS. A 10-shot group fired off the bench at a distance of 100 yards from one of my AR-15s with a Krieger barrel that has a 223 Remington chamber and a 1:9" twist had an extreme spread of 0.98". https://app.box.com/shared/static/58u4s0pjhzas44k9xwxarwk516hvuv2s.jpg I also fired another 10-shot group of the Australian Outback load from one of my AR-15s with a Krieger barrel that has a 5.56mm match chamber and a 1:7.7" twist. That group had an extreme spread of 0.92". https://app.box.com/shared/static/sn7qht670gtoavpc88dyx908vl5ydzfu.jpg ..... It's my favorite varmint load too. Indeed! 
... |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 6:02:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are using 1:9 twist Colt HBAR or "clone" spec 16" barrels and shooting 3x10 shot groups, which even though this is the same across the board with all your testing, is hardly ideal for precision shooting and getting the most out of different ammunition. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My 18" BA spr barrel hates 55grainers.....77g SSA and XM855 on the other hand has performed well.
Even when tested from machine-rested, bolt-action, heavy test barrels, Lake City M855 can barely hold 3 MOA on a good day. https://app.box.com/shared/static/p0mvkjxmhm.jpg .... You are using 1:9 twist Colt HBAR or "clone" spec 16" barrels and shooting 3x10 shot groups, which even though this is the same across the board with all your testing, is hardly ideal for precision shooting and getting the most out of different ammunition. You seriously have no clue what you are talking about, but if you want to continue trying to pretend that you know more about precision shooting with an AR-15 than I do, get back to me when you can personally top this using a semi-automatic AR-15 chambered in 5.56mm/223 Remington . . . 
.... |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 6:02:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Some interesting results: All better groups than what you were able to achieve. http://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2012/9/4/green-tip-accuracy-test/ 
Statistically insignificant 5-shot groups. At the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, USA Shooting Team members Launi Meili and Robert Foth won the gold and silver medals in the three-position rifle events. The Olympians used the new Federal Gold Medal ammunition to aid them in obtaining their victories. This was the first time in more than 30 years that an American won an Olympic medal in one of the small bore shooting events while using American-made ammunition. It’s interesting to note that pertaining to the accuracy/precision development and multifaceted testing of the Federal ammunition that helped the US Olympians win gold and silver medals in Barcelona, Federal’s Director of Product Engineering, Dave Longren, had this to say: “The standard test string was three 10-shot groups, with the most attention paid to the 30-shot composite. When you’re working at this level, the traditional five 5-shot group test simply doesn’t give you statistically valid results.” .... Quoted:
Some interesting results: All better groups than what you were able to achieve. https://survivalblog.com/scots-product-review-federal-ammunition/ 
Testing so pathetic that the number of shots in the groups wasn’t even stated. .... Quoted:
Some interesting results: All better groups than what you were able to achieve. http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2014/5/21/testing-the-army-s-m855a1-standard-ball-cartridge/ 
That article DOESN’T EVEN CONTAIN ANY ACTUAL SHOT-GROUP DATA FOR XM855. .... I see that YOU still haven’t posted any pics of YOUR 10-shot groups of XM855 shot from your BA barrel that support your ignorant claims. .... |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 6:03:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Have got a BA barrel coming in soon for a Mk12. I'm expecting sub-moa with my loads, hope I'm not disappointed but this thread may have lowered my expectations a bit.
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Posted: 1/23/2016 6:13:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You seriously have no clue what you are talking about, but if you want to continue trying to pretend that you know more about precision shooting with an AR-15 than I do, get back to me when you can personally top this using a semi-automatic AR-15 chambered in 5.56mm/223 Remington . . . https://app.box.com/shared/static/c3nj830tjxcph7zq8vm7.jpg https://app.box.com/shared/static/7o9zt9idk7889mmzlcbkjaqe16r5mz8h.jpg .... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My 18" BA spr barrel hates 55grainers.....77g SSA and XM855 on the other hand has performed well.
Even when tested from machine-rested, bolt-action, heavy test barrels, Lake City M855 can barely hold 3 MOA on a good day. https://app.box.com/shared/static/p0mvkjxmhm.jpg .... You are using 1:9 twist Colt HBAR or "clone" spec 16" barrels and shooting 3x10 shot groups, which even though this is the same across the board with all your testing, is hardly ideal for precision shooting and getting the most out of different ammunition. You seriously have no clue what you are talking about, but if you want to continue trying to pretend that you know more about precision shooting with an AR-15 than I do, get back to me when you can personally top this using a semi-automatic AR-15 chambered in 5.56mm/223 Remington . . . https://app.box.com/shared/static/c3nj830tjxcph7zq8vm7.jpg https://app.box.com/shared/static/7o9zt9idk7889mmzlcbkjaqe16r5mz8h.jpg .... 
Load data? |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 8:18:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have got a BA barrel coming in soon for a Mk12. I'm expecting sub-moa with my loads, hope I'm not disappointed but this thread may have lowered my expectations a bit. Well, unless you are shooting 10 shot groups on a vice bench with a Colt HBAR profiled barrel......you are just a poser in your mom's basement pretending to shoot for precision. I wonder what all those guys over at the MOA challenge think, now that their insignificant 5x5 shot groups are meaningless  .
edit for your comprehension:
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Posted: 1/23/2016 9:08:19 PM EDT
[#38]
I know, its making me doubt my recent b.a. barrel purchase. I buddy has been really impressed with his stainless v7 barrel. Impressive groups, but no documentation to back it up.
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Posted: 1/23/2016 9:18:08 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, unless you are shooting 10 shot groups on a vice bench with a Colt HBAR profiled barrel......you are just a poser in your mom's basement pretending to shoot for precision. I wonder what all those guys over at the MOA challenge think, now that their insignificant 5x5 shot groups are meaningless .edit for your comprehension: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Have got a BA barrel coming in soon for a Mk12. I'm expecting sub-moa with my loads, hope I'm not disappointed but this thread may have lowered my expectations a bit. Well, unless you are shooting 10 shot groups on a vice bench with a Colt HBAR profiled barrel......you are just a poser in your mom's basement pretending to shoot for precision. I wonder what all those guys over at the MOA challenge think, now that their insignificant 5x5 shot groups are meaningless .edit for your comprehension: |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 9:36:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Or one 25 shot group...
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Posted: 1/23/2016 9:57:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even when tested from machine-rested, bolt-action, heavy test barrels, Lake City M855 can barely hold 3 MOA on a good day. https://app.box.com/shared/static/p0mvkjxmhm.jpg .... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My 18" BA spr barrel hates 55grainers.....77g SSA and XM855 on the other hand has performed well.
Even when tested from machine-rested, bolt-action, heavy test barrels, Lake City M855 can barely hold 3 MOA on a good day. https://app.box.com/shared/static/p0mvkjxmhm.jpg .... Can I just say, I love you. |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 9:37:04 AM EDT
[#42]
What a shit throwing match . Geez
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Posted: 1/24/2016 10:50:48 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, unless you are shooting 10 shot groups on a vice bench with a Colt HBAR profiled barrel......you are just a poser in your mom's basement pretending to shoot for precision. I wonder what all those guys over at the MOA challenge think, now that their insignificant 5x5 shot groups are meaningless .
edit for your comprehension:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Have got a BA barrel coming in soon for a Mk12. I'm expecting sub-moa with my loads, hope I'm not disappointed but this thread may have lowered my expectations a bit. Well, unless you are shooting 10 shot groups on a vice bench with a Colt HBAR profiled barrel......you are just a poser in your mom's basement pretending to shoot for precision. I wonder what all those guys over at the MOA challenge think, now that their insignificant 5x5 shot groups are meaningless .
edit for your comprehension:
I am a participant of the MOA challenge. Number 2 in semi-auto class and number 1 in bolt. I will be the first (eta:second, sorry jaqufrost, missed you) to say a single or cherry picked 5 round groups are statistically insignificant. That is why the challenge requires 25 shots on one paper, and even then a few of those groups will be due to luck and not representative of the rifles capability. I've been trying to create a model to determine the likelihood of an MOA rifle shooting a 1/2 MOA 5 shot group vs a 1/2 MOA 10 shot group based on the random distribution of shots. Unfortunately it's been about 10 years since I've done any significant statistics work, nor do I have access to the software I used to. Maybe someone can help me with that. |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 11:10:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What a shit throwing match . Geez It's more like one man devoting his entire life to slapping the same rifle into a vice, and regurgitating his results as dogma. I can appreciate all the data old man vice master posts up, but to infer that mechanical shooting translates or correlates into real world shooting applications is ridiculous. He basically discounts what any other barrel is capable of, based on what he is able to achieve with his HBAR.......the failed logic and reasoning of this is on derp levels that are beyond comprehension. Too bad he only shoots 10 shot groups.......the vice master might have a shot at the MOA challenge. edit for Fudd comprehension:
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Posted: 1/24/2016 11:18:13 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, unless you are shooting 10 shot groups on a vice bench with a Colt HBAR profiled barrel......you are just a poser in your mom's basement pretending to shoot for precision. I wonder what all those guys over at the MOA challenge think, now that their insignificant 5x5 shot groups are meaningless .
I'm number 11 on the semi-auto MOA challenge. I'd like to point out a few things. 1. Molon knows more about accurate shooting and accuracy potential than you will ever know.... and choosing to argue points with him by posting some silly links just show your "level"..... in a lot of areas. 2. I don't see YOUR name on the challenge.... now have we seen any of YOUR work. Just a lot of talk. You made statements that were pretty laughable, proven wrong.... yet wont back anything up with real shooting, even when presented with data that shows you were either mistaken, or lying. 3. When challenged with real data, you try and poke holes in it with conjecture, rhetoric, and by linking to other peoples work (which didn't prove any points because the data collected was "poor" at best. 4. You have been called out on the Wall of claim.... and have yet to "put up or shut up". There are those who talk, and those who do. We all know where you stand. |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 11:35:29 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 1/24/2016 11:38:14 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's more like one man devoting his entire life to slapping the same rifle into a vice, and regurgitating his results as dogma. I can appreciate all the data old man vice master posts up, but to infer that mechanical shooting translates or correlates into real world shooting applications is ridiculous. He basically discounts what any other barrel is capable of, based on what he is able to achieve with his HBAR.......the failed logic and reasoning of this is on derp levels that are beyond comprehension. Too bad he only shoots 10 shot groups.......the vice master might have a shot at the MOA challenge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What a shit throwing match . Geez It's more like one man devoting his entire life to slapping the same rifle into a vice, and regurgitating his results as dogma. I can appreciate all the data old man vice master posts up, but to infer that mechanical shooting translates or correlates into real world shooting applications is ridiculous. He basically discounts what any other barrel is capable of, based on what he is able to achieve with his HBAR.......the failed logic and reasoning of this is on derp levels that are beyond comprehension. Too bad he only shoots 10 shot groups.......the vice master might have a shot at the MOA challenge. And yet, no one is on your side. You keep mentioning the MOA challenge and multiple people that have shot that challenge have come on to state that their understanding that a 5 shot group is not statistically significant to evaluate the accuracy of the rifle/ammo combination. I believe the MOA challenge rules are acceptable to test the accuracy of the Rifle/ammo/SHOOTER combination. The reason the number of shots in a group were reduced from 10 to 5, was so the challenge wouldn't be totally bias towards shooter ability. Molon's tests state they evaluate Rifle and Ammo only. At no point does he claim this is a test of the shooter, so he does what he can to eliminate the shooter variable. If he didn't do that, then 10 round groups would be too bias on his shooting that day, and we would not get accurate data on ammo used. I feel his tests are more valid this way as he is able to reduce variables and focus on what he's actually evaluating (ammo or barrel). |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 11:56:22 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm number 11 on the semi-auto MOA challenge. I'd like to point out a few things. 1. Molon knows more about accurate shooting and accuracy potential than you will ever know.... and choosing to argue points with him by posting some silly links just show your "level"..... in a lot of areas. 2. I don't see YOUR name on the challenge.... now have we seen any of YOUR work. Just a lot of talk. You made statements that were pretty laughable, proven wrong.... yet wont back anything up with real shooting, even when presented with data that shows you were either mistaken, or lying. 3. When challenged with real data, you try and poke holes in it with conjecture, rhetoric, and by linking to other peoples work (which didn't prove any points because the data collected was "poor" at best. 4. You have been called out on the Wall of claim.... and have yet to "put up or shut up". There are those who talk, and those who do. We all know where you stand. I'm not disputing Molon's knowledge at all, the guy has obviously devoted his life to being the internet ballistics guru and I respect that. But if his data is so well respected and trusted in here, what is the impetus behind the "mom's basement" comments? Why can't he just stand behind his data without the insults and personal attacks. I just got put on the wall of shame this week.....we just got hit with the worst snow storm in 20 years, can I at least have a chance to get back to the range with the two new barrels I picked up? I got it, I've been called out on the interwebz....I know the burden of proof is on me. We can stop beating the dead horse. I don't challenge real data, I contend that barrel (A) with certain ammunition will shoot differently using barrel (B). Molon is making the assertion that users results will be almost identical to his results regardless of barrel. Silly links? You mean links of test results that all shot tighter groups than Molon using the same ammunition with different barrels? Interesting when that happens isn't it
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Posted: 1/24/2016 12:01:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am a participant of the MOA challenge. Number 2 in semi-auto class and number 1 in bolt. I will be the first (eta:second, sorry jaqufrost, missed you) to say a single or cherry picked 5 round groups are statistically insignificant. That is why the challenge requires 25 shots on one paper, and even then a few of those groups will be due to luck and not representative of the rifles capability. I've been trying to create a model to determine the likelihood of an MOA rifle shooting a 1/2 MOA 5 shot group vs a 1/2 MOA 10 shot group based on the random distribution of shots. Unfortunately it's been about 10 years since I've done any significant statistics work, nor do I have access to the software I used to. Maybe someone can help me with that. Nice shooting, but your effort and results are not legitimate based on what Molon has outlined several times with his 3x10 shot group criteria. In fact, the MOA challenge is the exact opposite of what he has determined to be empirical. |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 12:09:25 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice shooting, but your effort and results are not legitimate based on what Molon has outlined several times with his 3x10 shot group criteria. In fact, the MOA challenge is the exact opposite of what he has determined to be empirical. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am a participant of the MOA challenge. Number 2 in semi-auto class and number 1 in bolt. I will be the first (eta:second, sorry jaqufrost, missed you) to say a single or cherry picked 5 round groups are statistically insignificant. That is why the challenge requires 25 shots on one paper, and even then a few of those groups will be due to luck and not representative of the rifles capability. I've been trying to create a model to determine the likelihood of an MOA rifle shooting a 1/2 MOA 5 shot group vs a 1/2 MOA 10 shot group based on the random distribution of shots. Unfortunately it's been about 10 years since I've done any significant statistics work, nor do I have access to the software I used to. Maybe someone can help me with that. Nice shooting, but your effort and results are not legitimate based on what Molon has outlined several times with his 3x10 shot group criteria. In fact, the MOA challenge is the exact opposite of what he has determined to be empirical. I think you are misreading what he is saying. Most shooters on the MOA challenge agree that 10 shot groups, and composite groups tell a MUCH better tale of what ammo is capable of, and that the MOA challenge was not designed to show that. And most people who subscribe to the 10 shot group and larger composite groups will agree that the MOA all day challenge was designed as a simple test without requiring too much ammo, to be able to demonstrate what the shooter, weapon, and his ammo of choice are capable of consistently repeating. Those are two totally different things, and only you drew the conclusions that he was saying the MOA challenge was invalid. He didn't. You made that part up by drawing a line that didn't exist. (on and on the MOA all day challenge, I didn't realize your name was just put on there. No problem it takes time to get to the range sometimes.... I know I have built a couple new rifles and loaded some ammo and it has been several months and I still haven't found time to get a batter entry on there than #11. )
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