I think I've narrowed my complete upper down to two choices. Either a BCM BFH 16 inch w/VTAC ALPHA 11 inch handguard or a BCM Standard 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group w/ VTAC ALPHA 11" Handguard. My question is would it be worth the extra $$ to get the BFH rather than standard or not?

I'm also looking at a 16 inch midlength w/Troy SDMR 13 inch handguard. I'm going to add a Harris bipod. Would there be enough space underneath to add a bipod w/mount? If anyone has a pic that shows this I would like to see.

HF vs standard is a highly debated topic.

There is no solid evidence that a HF barrel will outlive a standard.

Some will give you "proof" to the contrary with a lot of big words, ex Navy Seal said this, etc., etc.

But nothing that I have read even comes close to proving it to me.

Go standard and spend the $70 on ammo.

 
This.


 

ETA: There's nothing wrong with their CHF barrels, however I personally just don't see $70 being worth the investment when their standard barrels have been proven to last. If it were $20 more, I might consider it a worthy investment. But, if you shoot enough to ever really shoot out a barrel, the cost of a new barrel won't be a problem.

I will NEVER pay more for a hammer forged barrel over another barrel.

The entire reason hammer forging was invented was to make a "CHEAPER" barrel via a cheaper and quicker process.

WTF is this paying more for it?

As far as the Troy handguard is there enough room on the bottom Pic rail to put a 6-9 inch Harris bipod on?

So it's "cheaper" to buy a million dollar machine to make barrels?  What you mean to say is you can make more good blanks per hour.  This translates into more product to sell in same length of production.  The initial capital expiditure is in no way cheaper.  That machine operates violently with hammers.  It will need a certain amount of maintenance which won't be cheap either.

 


There are benefits to hammer forging.  Your money your choice.  You will fine their standard barrels perform very well.


 

Inside FNM South Caroline Barrel Factory

Now that the barrels have their hole, it’s time to add in the rifling. There are two main methods to putting the grooves on the inside of a barrel: button rifling and cold hammer forging. Button rifling involves sending a button broach tool down the length of the barrel using hydraulic pressure that cuts and form the rifling into the barrel. Cold hammer forging involves bashing the barrel from all sides with hammers and forcing them to contact onto a tool, a mandrel, inside the barrel which has the mirror image of the desired rifling on it. Hammer forging has been proven to be the most accurate method of barrel production, providing a longer useful barrel life and greater accuracy. However, while cold hammer forging takes about 90 seconds per barrel (plus a longer setup time), button rifling is a much quicker process at about 30 seconds per barrel.

Thank you for posting this.  I get sick of hearing the same tired, incorrect line about how chf barrels are produced dirt cheap at break neck speeds.  

Hammer forging was developed by the Germans in WWII as a way to increase weapon production and reduce costs. The set up is all part of business, the cost per barrel is amortized over the life of the forging machine and when all is said and done the barrel is indeed cheaper to produce.

Does the first F150 of the new year sell for more than the last one? The first one had all that tooling etc costs associated with it so by this logic they should start off costing millions of dollars and by the end of the year they would sell for little to nothing.

Another read, all of the articles have some discrepanicies.

Rifle Shooter

I have a feeling that modern computer controlled rotary hammer forges are a tad more advanced than the German versions of WW2 vintage?

Remington, Steyr, Sako, FN, HK, DD, LWRC, Knights, etc,etc...

All known to produce consistently good, accurate barrels.

I like the CHF process.  I feel like it's main advantage is consistency.

You rarely hear of a CHF barrel not performing well.

Nothing wrong with a buttoned rifle barrel either.

One of the aspects of CHF barrels that Eric Kincel pointed out was that chrome lining adheres better to CHF barrels.

I don't recall ever hearing of chrome coming off of standard barrels.  There may be benefits to CHF, but as long as it's a quality barrel, I don't care whether it's CHF or standard.  Gonna take a lot of rounds to toast a good barrel, save the loot and buy some extra rounds.

Yes I am quite aware.  I still don't think you understand.  It's ok.  We can just disagree.  

 

I have standard BCM barreled uppers, I have a hammer forged BCM barrel and a DD hammer forged barrel.  While a direct comparison is impossible due to various lengths, profiles and rail configurations, not to mention optics, I have noticed that my standard BCM barrels are more accurate than my hammer forged barrels.  Doesn't mean they will last as long, and the hammer forged barrels are plenty accurate as well.

I probably do but I have gotten a tad hard headed in my older age.

A few years back I had an FAL built on an early Styer kit. Of course it had the Styer chf barrel and after it got hot it tended to "walk" the shots on the target. CHF is a very good barrel, not perfect, but a very good barrel. On principle I will not pay more for one, but that is just me. Cheers.

I think this is interesting.  

I've read about these "walking" issues with CHF barrels so I know it is well documented and you are telling the truth.

Something about the residual stresses in the barrel that contributes to this issue.  

And you know you can go off the deep end with different barrel making theories and the makers themselves.  They all subscribe to different schools of thought and it's unreal how deep you can get into them.  After all, they are pieces of steel with holes drilled in them, no?  Lol

I've read where some makers tried to completely eliminate the stresses by heat treatments, cold trements, etc.  And naturally all barrel makers claim their process is superior.  Hell, I had read some makers don't stress relieve at all, they simply try to make sure the finished barrels are uniformly or equally stressed.  They all try to achieve the same goals but take different steps to get the end results.  I find it fascinating.

But in the end we users will usually revert to our personal experiences.  You aren't necessarily hard headed, you simply know what works for you in your experience.  We all do that.  That's why we have preferences.  Nothing wrong with that.

I have a Spikes FN barrel and I honestly have not truly put it to the test.  But in my sample of one, I was most impressed with how consistent it shoots.  Hot, cold, no matter.  It doesn't string or walk.  Which is great, because the barrel it replaced did walk when hot, and it was frustrating as hell.  So I can see how your experience would put you off.

Sorry for being long winded, and I know you weren't responding to me, but I had to put it out there.

And OP, I like my particular CHF barrel.  And most accounts of CHF barrels are promising these days.  But...
I honestly can't say it would be better or worth the extra money given your choices.  You will have to make that call.
But the good thing is I don't believe there is a wrong choice.  BCM is not going to sell you junk, and you will more than likely get a good barrel regardless.

If you have the money and want it go hammer forged. The idea of saving the extra to buy ammo and mags is just silly.

I'm not a metallurgist or engineer, but my understanding is that HF barrels result in work hardening in the bore as a result of being hammered into dhape, which also creates stresses in the barrel which could affect accuracy. You could stress relieve the barrel to deal with the stresses induced by the hammering, but you would lose the work hardening in the bore if you were to do this. No idea which manufactureres do or don't do this.

Here's something Eric Kincel said a while back

1 cont: button vs hammer forged: "steel is steel" and so the expansion, all things being equal, will be about the same. That said, the cold hammer forge process creates what we call residual stress.

Basically, the steel is still under pressure once it's finished. For an applied load, the actual stress of the material starts from a negative (verus zero), and therefore can take much more load prior to hitting yield. How much more is highly dependent on many variables. This is especially true for the bore, where the vast majority of the cold work, and therefore the residual stress, is retained.


We effectively create a barrel that has a stronger-than-normal (even though hardness is still close to the same) liner with a considerable wall thickness. The grain of the metal will also be refined and we'd expect to see long grains (since barrel blanks start short and end long) on the surface which are tightly packed together. The impact it has on overall expansion should be minimal, and given that the residual stress state is fairly uniform from end-to-end, we wouldn't expect to see any warpage when heated versus if the profile were less than uniform.

We still have the same effects from other discontinuities, but all things equal the forged barrel still has the strength advantage with the residual stresses. The tighter grain structure also gives a superior surface for applying chrome and the higher quality surface will resist corrosion better due to the tightly packed grains (similar to the corrosion inhibition seen on polished surfaces, even when untreated).

These are the major benefits of the hammer forged barrels: they resist wear better due to the residual stresses and better surface finish and the hard chrome tends to lay itself down in a more uniform and dense coating which increases the benefits offered by the chrome.