I was out at Engage a few days ago and I was introduced to a really cool product that's just hitting the market. It's pretty much a overhaul of the NEA Compact Carbine Stock (CSS). As you know The good folks at Engage were one of the few folks if not the only FFL in the country importing the NEA CSS, after having so much time handling, installing, and using the stock they noticed several short comings in application and design. Based on these short comings they reached out to MVB Industries to have some of the
issues corrected. Engage has worked with MVB on several projects in the past. Long story short the MVB ARC Stock was born. My intial impression was that this stock is a huge improvement over the NEA CCS and the Troy PDW offerings.

Some of the obvious benefits over the NEA CSS Stock are:

Made in the USA (no importation necessary)
Uses Mil-Spec Bolt Carrier
Works with piston guns such as LWRCi's offerings
Able to utilize more calibers (6.8spc, 5.45x39, etc..)
Short and compact
Does not change interface with lower once installed
Revised and controls
Firing while collapsed (this is almost like firing a pistol)

The biggest draw back to the NEA CCS is the proprietary bolt carrier. The proprietary carrier limited caliber options to 5.56/.223 and .300 blackout. This made buying a $400 dollar stock a little hard to stomach. The other draw back were the importation restrictions. The good news is Troy now makes these stocks in country, but they still have a design similar to
the original NEA CCS so caliber options are similar and price is actually up to $500 for the Troy "copy". The only thing that Troy brings to the table is a FDE offering.

Some Draw backs to the MVB Industries Stock are:

Price ($399)
Availability

I have posted two videos one is a side-by-side comparison and the other is a shooting demo. Hope this info was useful!

Comparison Video
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwuDr8llNrI&list=UUo45K66PJY5D7ZPacpVS9Pg[/youtube]

Shooting Demo
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P48b-kF8lps[/youtube]

Aside from the fact that you come across as a shill, the points quoted above are wrong.  The NEA can be fired collapsed and will accept any bolt that any other carrier will.  .458, 6.8, 6.5, etc would all work.

Don't give me that BS, shill??  Why would you say that, please explain!  Do your research before you make those claims!!  I review products on Youtube etc just like Mr. gunsngear, Hickock 45 and tons of other Youtubers, I have been around this forum much longer than you and don't appreciate your baseless comment.   This is what gives AR15.com a bad name.  If you don't have anything valid to post then don't post, but name calling is unnecessary.

I never said that the NEA stock could not fire when collapsed I just named it as a benefit of the ARC which is what this thread is about!

Also The NEA can only shoot two calibers reliably due to it's bolt carrier design.  They are .223/5.56 and .300 blackout.  The extension tube is shorter and that limits the travel needed!  The ARC has a longer extension tube which allows different calibers.  If you believe that you are correct please post your evidence in this thread.

Edit:  I read your post again, simple reading comprehension could correct this misunderstanding.  I never said that their carrier could not accept other calibers ".458, 6.8, 6.5, etc"  I said that it would not work (limited)!  Not that it could not fit (it can fit all day long, but what good is that?)!  The goal of this is to have a functioning gun not a paper weight.

I see with your ridiculously high post count that you might type before you read, me personally, I just read....  Enjoy.

meh , i'll keep my ccs stock

also they're not hard to find now , brownell's sell's them for $329

the troy also comes with a complete BCG not just a carrier , hence the higher price.  and prob better R&D than engage armament.

This is not an Engage product, Look up MVB industries they are the ones manufacturing and selling these...  Engage just had one on hand for me to check out.

i just looked them up as i have never heard of them.  they have some nice machines but i personally would think troy , even though they're not well liked around here at the moment , has better r&d and engineering departments than mvb.  troy's version of the stock seems to have " more " into it than mvb's version.  i don't think any of them are game changer's though.

when you said engage reached out to mvb i just took it to mean engage was the lead on the project and mvb was manufacturing it , my bad.

Sad part is we don't know who actually manufactures Troy's either (they are know to out source their parts).  A lot of these machine shops do this type of work around the industry (CNC machines aren't cheap), but don't usually produce the products under their names because they aren't branded as a Firearms Manufacturer etc...  No different than what's going on with barrels, mags and BCGs around the industry, one compay makes them and stamps the name of the contractor on it as ordered.  Most companies don't want the headache, training, new machines,etc, just out source.  Either way the Troy offering is limited to that damn proprietary bolt carrier just like the NEA CCS so they really didn't change too much.

You're the first person I've heard say that the NEA won't work with alternate calibers.   Guys over on the 6.8 forums are claiming success with it.

And I wasn't calling you anything, just pointing out that your original post sounds a lot like a shill.

If you have a link that would be great!  I would like to research this, not sure if you need to make any modifications etc...  Thanks in advance!

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?46319-NEA-Compact-Carbine-Stock&p=519474&viewfull=1#post519474

yeah I seen that thread from Feruary, don't want to sound picky but that's one person and that was all I can find.  I personally would stick my neck out based on one persons good fortune or misfortune. He just said I use it in mine, did he have to modify anything etc, which gen NEA Stock since there are three different versions, really no info there at all!

Either way I will leave some pics.......

IMG_7101 by 556 Channel (HD), on Flickr

IMG_7111 by 556 Channel (HD), on Flickr

IMG_7118 by 556 Channel (HD), on Flickr

Early model

IMG_5334 by 556 Channel (HD), on Flickr

Side by side

DSC_5011 by 556 Channel (HD), on Flickr

By the way you can checkout my Youtube page, videos and Facebook page.  I do not work for Colt, POF USA, Atlantic Firearms, Magpul, PTR 91 etc, but I do review videos and I share my reviews good or bad on this and other forums.  I think of it as a service to end users, since this is where the reviews are coming from, an end user.  People watch and share their opinions, this is the era that we are in now.  Nobody listens to a manufacturer tell them they have the best stuff on the market anymore, people want to hear the opinions of the actual users not actors etc...

556 Channel (HD) Facebook

556 Channel (HD) Youtube

People here are idiots. Shill? So he joined in 2005 just to shill. Jesus.

I don't like OP's preferred stock, but shill? Really?

I think the Troy is much nicer but the nea ccs will be going on my 300 suppressed SBR build for obvious reasons.

I like these, but 300 bucks is far too expensive.

Im looking for one for my SBR build too. At $200 I'd be in. But 300 bucks is far too much. Even if it does come with a bolt carrier

$100 for bcg, $70 for milspec receiver extension buffer and spring, $130 for the stock isn't unreasonable if you think about the UBr and PRS or many of the other premier stocks.

He's shilling the craps out of his YouTube videos at the very least. Yes high on a new product because they let him test it, and he's doing them a big disservice by spamming the tech forums in this manner.

It's funny that he's writing another post off as "one person's opinion" when his own spiel is one person's heavily biased opinion. This thread is totally fail.

Wow starting one thread is "spamming" Damn!  My bad....

So a new product is not supposed to be in the tech forum?

Further more I did not get to "test" anything all I did was a side by side comparison about a stock that was never mentioned here before.  This is not my stock nor was I doing this for MVB Industries.  I just noticed that they took the NEA stock and improved on the weak areas.  I like the NEA stock, but this one fixes all the NEA's short comings so I like this one better.  Is that hard to believe?

Why are you guys getting upset because I shared this info/video in this manner?  I personally don't start threads, I can name a handful that I actually started and they're usually relevant for decent conversation and info.

Not to bring others into this but Mrgunsngear does this exact same thing all the time and never receives such a negative response, I am confused.

Yeah but they cost $400 not $300.....

There is a fine line on stuff like this. I have saw a few other posts that seemed like YouTube spam, probably from the guy you mentioned. Generally the thing to do is run it by a mod for their input if there is any self promotion and your user level doesn't include promotion in the privileges.

This is an information site though, and objective review videos can get information across that text can't, but generally the content needs to be an addition to the forum, and not content on another platform. The reason you're catching flak is simply how you worded the  post, and the high enthusiasm from a company no one has heard of. That kind of angle is always going to be met with skepticism here. I personally  didn't see it as a shilling, but directing people to  watch YouTube videos of a product that nobody really showed any additional interest in is  sketchy.  Mrgunsandgear may have more tactics, but using a forum as a promotional tool is sketchy regardless.

C mon people, take a breath and calm down. He has access to a product that none of you have and we have no info about. Im actually glad hes doing a comparison about it. WTF  is wrong with that, everyone always bitches about video or pics or it didnt happen. Ill say thank you for doing a side by side, the cost is more than ill pay but at least there is another option on the market.

I'll wait for the dust to settle as well. Thanks for the review, now hopefully the price will drop soon.

With the extra length, is their any advantage over the UCIW stock?



       
 

I lol'd

The longer receiver extension is offset by a hole cut in the stock so both NEA versions are the same length collapsed.

But I do see your point.

You can't use it with 9mm like the UCIW?

UCIW fan here.

http://heavybuffers.com/uciw.html

You are correct it would be hard to beat this particular stock, based on price and the ability to run 9mm!  The only benefit I see which is not really a benefit, is the awe factor from the design.  That doesn't really go far though........

I like the UCIW myself - but I'll still be watching and evaluating this one.

I do like how because the OP has a youtube channel we are to think his opinion means more than anyone elses. Your bullet points are meant to infer that this new stock does so much more than the NEA version which it does not. Its good to have options but coming in here acting like its revolutionary is laughable. I could care less about piston guns and the NEA stock is only a bolt swap away from running any of the other cartridges. Running wither stock on a 458 is laughable unless you like bloody noses then rock on.

Me too!

Jhfc.
Here is another Wayne thread shilling for engage.

How many pages will Wayne waste trying to say he is not a shill this time?

You are a shill.
If anyone wants to look up threads you started or other threads you have replied to, then they will see the same.

If you are not a shill then you are just the unpaid sucker who is always pimping for them.

We have already established that you hate Engage, so stop trolling my threads with this crap.  Move on troll!

Dude, I am not selling anything for engage, number one they don't sell these or have anything to gain from this company.  That is my gun shop that I support.  As I said they do not make these MVB does, which is easy to research.  So you sound like a fool.  The only thing that Engage had to do with this is let me play with their CCS stock and the MVB stock in order to make the video in the link.

Damn, the topic is not about buying anything it is about a new product, comment about that or just move on!  The person who is wasting time here is you trying to derail the thread....  Why are you so mad?  Just start a thread and maybe we can discuss it in GD.

link to MVB Facebook

If you want just call them and ask them for yourself.

We've got some triggertime with the troy stock and its a pretty solid piece.  Its a murder weapon even without the rest of the gun.    Not without fault tho.  It comes with a fullauto BCG thats been machined down so the spring will slip over it.  The buffer is pinned into the back of the carrier.  No welds on the models we've got on the shelf.  And you can shoot whatever caliber of round that you want, so long as the bolt will fit into the carrier.  I wouldnt recommend it tho.   The sliding rails have six positions but we can only really find a use for the two on the ends.  The disengage is underneath and you have to hold it open thru every position until you get to the end.  Nothing really intuitive about it.  These stocks are so tiny that its almost uncomfortable for a big guy to shoot for an extended period.  Its a PDW after all, its supposed to be tiny,compact, whatever..stuff it in your pocket.  No practical use other than to hide it away until its time to shoot it.  You could run an Adams Drive with a troy stock but youd have to put the adams gaskey/piston pusher key thingy on the Troy BCG.

The ARC is still just as tiny but  has a couple more features.  The button is easy to find, and depress. It cost less, use your own carrier, its got a few more pieces, etc.. you cant hinge the troy open with the pivot pin.  You have to pull both pins before the upper and lower will separate.(lol,...think about that for a minute)  The ARC will break down like a conventional AR where the troy wont.  Is there any real advantage to that..your call.  If they included their own BCG, it would cost just as much as the other... i dont know why threads always have to turn out like this one..

rock on..

Mainly because people are intent on derailing it, and try to keep the thread off topic!

Blacksheep Warrior Review

I wrote this one. There are 3 other pages. No idea how the new stock you are talking about compares but if it's similiar my opinion won't change.

I was unimpressed. I recently bought a LWRC UCIW to put on my 10.5" SBR. I just bought another to throw on my 8.2 300 BLK which is going to end up living life as a 7.5" 5.56 gun after I ditch the upper. The UCIW is lighter, cheaper and compatible with standard parts (save for the buffer).

UCIW stock kit is $91 shipped today.  It's hard to beat that price, flatwire spring, buffer, 7075 receiver extension and stock for under $100 shipped.



https://www.lwrci.com/p-361-uciw-ultra-compact-stock.aspx

Hate Engage?

Where did you get that from?

They were my go to shop when they were in Kensington. I lived right up the street.

This deal is so much win that it is going to cost me:
- $200 on top of my $90
- months of waiting

My goal is to keep this thread on topic!

Really nice write up, but that build though!  That thing looked killer!!  In regards to price, weight, etc nothing has really changed.  The main change is increased compatibility...  When compared to the LWRCi UCIW none of these stocks can compet, but most of the draw to these style stocks (MVB, CCS, and Troys offering) is the unique design/look.

While they look very similar, there are some differences between the MVB ARC, and the Troy/ NEA PDW stock. I’ve owned a Troy, and had issues with cycling Subsonic 300BLK without a suppressor on an 8” pistol barrel. Not that it’s a huge issue, opening a gas port would fix that. But not being able to add or subtract weight via the buffer, bugged me. MVB notes on their Facebook page that different weight buffers are available. However, I did not have the same cycling issues with the MVB as I had with the Troy, and haven’t had a need for a different buffer weight with any ammo used, one any multiple barrel length uppers I run (Federal XM855 or PCM 55gr Xtreme, running a 14.5” Noveske upper, 16” AAC 5.56 upper, or 10.5” Spikes upper, or with 300 BLK 8” Custom 3 lug upper, 16” AAC Upper, running Hornady 208gr, PNW 220gr, GemTech 187gr subs or Hornady 108 Vmax), suppressed or unsuppressed. This may be based on the dual spring design of the MVB not found on the Troy or NEA design, I’m not sure. Firing the rifle seams about as smooth as it would be with a standard buffer tube with the MVB. I do not get the spring “twang” I would often get the from the Troy when running many uppers suppressed.

I also did not like the lack of easy takedown the Troy and NEA have in common (which is why I almost switched to the Law tactical Folder). They are a pain in the butt to disassemble because of the spring and proprietary BCG. Not rocket sciences mind you, just an irritant for an already learned function. The MVB ARC has a button at the underside of the stock, which while the BCG is pulled back via the charging handle, will lock the spring and bolt in the rear position, allowing for the BCG to return to rest, and the upper opens as would any normal AR. This is a big deal for me. Mainly because I like to keep things as I am comfortable. My NiB BCG’s are easy to swap or inspect if need be, and the buffer and spring assembly being captured helps change uppers with ease.

One of the downsides I thought I would find with the MVB ARC was the lack of extension settings. There are only two, closed, and fully open. In the fully open position, my nose touches the back of the charging handle, this is something I am used to as I shoot with the standard adjustable stock at its shortest setting, but its not for everyone. I expected the lack of extension setting on the ARC to be an issue, turns out I found it to be the opposite. The Troy release button was in an odd spot, and in a pinch, I could see where I would be clicking and button pushing, and taking longer than expected to find the setting I like. With the ARC, the button is located on the portion of the stock that rest near the shoulder, much easier and faster to find. One simple push and pull, and you’re set to go. With the Troy, mine had issues with the locking mechanisms not always seating properly, this would cause the stock to slip on occasion under fire. The Troy locking mechanism is in the portion of the stock that mounts to the buffer tube section at the back of the receiver. The ARC uses a very different locking mechanism from the rear push button that cams the entire steel guide bar. The bar itself rotates about 45degrees to engage or disengage the lug of the stock. As a lefty, I worried about button placement on the ARC; so far it’s a non-issue. The MVB also has a nice QD mount on the underside of the base for sling attachment.

My guess, and I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong, is that Troy partnered with NEA for import purposes. As NEA is Canadian, and the two stocks are nearly identical. I could be way off base with that assumption. But since I’ve already made one assumption, I’ll make another. I have a feeling the guys in Troy R&D are kicking themselves in the arse for either directly copying the NEA design (or partnering) without ever thinking perhaps the product could have been improved upon prior to launch, or looking at the ARC and thinking "well sh!t". MVB took the NEA design and fixed every issue I had with my Troy stock. Over the Holiday weekend, I ran a little over a thousand rounds with the MVB ARC, using 5.56 and 330BLK ammo, not one issue so far. I Love it. If you’re in the market for a PDW stock, get the MVB ARC and save a hundred bucks. If you own an AR, you already have a BCG, and this thing is built like a tank.
Only thing I would change, or request, the pocket that is milled out of the stock for the butt pad base to lighten weight, would be a perfect place for a latched door for CR123a Batteries or other AR part. Maybe they will build accessory pouch down the road.

I also forgot to mention my Troy PDW stock would not collapse all the way down, as I have a Spikes Bio-hazard Gen 1 Lower mad by Seekins with an ambi bolt release. The ARC collapses fine and was designed to work with ambidextrous controls and add-on levers.

Thanks for the info, I do have some info regarding your assumptions.  Troy did not partner with NEA on their version of the CCS they merely copied it and just made small alterations.  NEA was unaware that Troy even had a version of the stock when I spoke to one of their employees a month or so back.  MVB did exactly what you said, sat down with NEA stock and fixed every feature that they thought sucked.  That is the only reason why I felt that the MVB version was better.

Anytime I see the phrase "game changa" associated with anything I expect to be disappointed. This is no exception

On a related note, does anyone recognize this upper?  Some kind of side charger with it's own spring to return to battery?

Looks interestingARC stock video

Luckily this thread was actually named "game changer" and not "game changa"

That's the Gibbz side charger. Same as the side chargers offered by JoeBob Outfitters and New Frontier Armory.

Interesting, I hadn't seen those before.  I really like how they finish the rear of the upper where a CH would normally be, IMHO that's one area side chargers have failed to address in the past

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Awesome.  Another Fracking build.   Thanks OP

Oh ...my bad.

Disregard my last.

This is all every bit of awesomeness.

Good job, OP

I'll have to agree somethings up when someone pushes so hard for a product they have "NO" interest in that somethings up.
then when people dont agree that its wonder bread get all upset.

I'll go with a UCIW before the $$$ part for reasons stated already