As said this will be my first build. Well first AR anything lol. And from what I understand after a bunch of reading is the barrel for the AR is what gives accuracy or not.

But also like many others I do not have funds falling out of my pockets sorry to say but I also do not wish to waste my time with a barn barrel.

So I have read some good reports on the White Oak Armament barrels as far as accuracy. But as stated I know pretty much O about this stuff so I guess you could say I am looking for the most accurate barrel for as little funds as possible? I know like everyone else lol.

What I am looking for is a 16" Barrel with a Wylde Chamber for 223/5.56 and a twist for say the 75Gr on up bullets that will fit in the AR Magazine.

Thank You everyone for your time and knowledge.

I have a WOA 18" rifle gas SPR barrel that is way more accurate than I am. Very good value with their barrels. Also there isn't really and "on up" from 75s as that is about the max for fitting in the mag.

Thank You Whhood.

But I thought for sure there would be much more interest and Barrel thoughts on this thread unless of course I asked probably one of the same old questions that many just do not wish to answer any longer?

If you're going for an SPR or RECCE and you want to stay on a budget, WOA, Rainier, Compass Lake, etc., should all be good to go. This would be my personal choice for an SPR.

18"

and this for a RECCE.

16"

This should be more accurate technically speaking, but whether or not it's worth an extra $30-40 is up to you. They'll all be more accurate than you(or me), most likely.

https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2892

This one looks very good. And the price between it and the White Oak is pretty much a wash.

At this time I just do not feel comfortable with the Polygonal 5 Groove type of barrels. But the other one mentioned below by Rainierarms with the .223 Wylde Chamber looks darn good.

It seems as if there are many good barrels on the Market but I am Positive that the Good People of this Forum can help me wade through them.

Again Thank You

I'm loving the accuracy of my Wilson Combat barrel so far and the pictures below are from my first day out with it at 100yards.  It's the 16" 1/8 Twist mid gas Recon profile so it's .740" after gas block and .840" under hand guard. Very nice weight and balance along with thicker profile for long shooting sessions. Shooting it out to 400yards for first time and it's silly accurate at that distance, almost boring. Greatest thing for me is it's accurate with everything from steel case Tula to Hornady 75gr bthp's

$275 or $325 with fluting  http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-Match-Grade-Barrel-556-NATO-Recon-Tactical-16-1-8-Twist-Stainless/productinfo/TR%2D556RC16%2D18/

This is with Federal gold medal match 69gr 5-shots 100yards.


This is with Ultramax remanufactured 55gr Nosler's bullets also 5-shot 100yards.


This is five shots at 250yards, other two bullet holes hit directly above paper and was in the wood stand. Still incredible considering it's first time out off the bench using sand bags.



This picture is showing its true purpose in life and boost my confidence in its ability to take varmints but still be a nice SHTF package.
I had 1.5moa of drop dialed in for this shot and was on an extreme downhill angle so first shot came up short and my double tap got her on the run after I corrected POA.

Also forgot to mention I was set on a Wylde chamber and my first stainless barrel was a Wilson Arms (not Wilson Combat) full bull barrel. When I chose this Wilson Combat barrel I was disappointed to find they only had 556 chambers but I went with it and you can see my results in above post.

Don't get caught up in Wylde chamber hype like I did. Any reputable barrel maker/machinist such as the ones your looking at will be superbly accurate from them even if it's the 556 cut. The white oak barrels are what I have talked to high power shooters about and they love them so I will probably give them a try one day. They were not in stock when I built mine and I wanted the profile Wilson Combat provided so no buyers remorse

FWIW, I own several expensive Noveske barrels and my buddy has a Rainier Match. The Rainier shoots damn good, I would not hesitate to own one myself.

Rainier Match = Wilson Arms blank chambered by WOA
Rainier Ultra Match = Shilen hand polished blank chambered by WOA

Thank You and that Means?

He's explaining which companies make Rainier Arms's barrels. Shilen makes their Ultra Match, while WOA chambers it to Wylde. The Compass Lake barrels will be higher quality than the WOA for just a few dollars more, and you can customize them quite a bit more as well. For what it's worth, the military contracts Compass Lake to make some of their SPR barrels.

While I am looking at Barrels is there a real benefit in the use of an 18" Barrel over a 16" Barrel?

 

I am still open to ideas for a Good Accurate Barrel?

Thus far I have been looking at Rainier Arms Match™ .223 Wylde Barrel - 18 MID  https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3075 ?

 

What are the thoughts of the one I posted a link for from Rainier?

They are $259.95

I'd rather have rifle length gas on a 18" but I'm sure they are very good barrel. Do you really need 18"? FWIW, I shoot my 14.5's out to 600 using my 75gr loads.

To be honest I know almost O about this stuff. Only what I have been reading.

Some say you can not go wrong with a 16" While others say that an 18" barrel will give 200 FPS or Better speed and help to stabilize the Projectile better. Even though I really do not think the 200 FPS really means Squat in the Grand Scheme of things.

The barrel length has nothing to do with stabilizing bullets, twist rate does. Ask yourself how far you plan on shooting??? Personally, I think a 16" Recce type builds make the most versatile rifles.

Honestly I do not feel that I will be shooting past 300 yards in the area I hunt in currently. There are a few places where one can make longer shots but it would be out of the ordinary.

What I wish it to do is Smaller Hog in the 100-140 yard Range and Coyote and Bobcat and maybe a Turkey up to 300 yards. Those Darn Coyote's are Quick lol.

I am really leaning towards this one by Rainier?  https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2892

Sorry if some feel I am being a bit of a pain. But this Build is important to me and I do not wish to make a mistake that I will regret. But then again I am sure many others feel the same about there builds.

200 fps is HUGE for long range precision just play with some ballistic calculators to get an idea what I'm talking about.  For your purpose of no longer than 300 yards and hunting in the 100 to 140 yard range it isn't that big of a deal though.

WOA are NOT what you are looking for...

Spend your money on THIS For the $319 you are getting a .5 moa capable barrel with the right ammo.  Me and many others have WOA barrels that will not group. People will say they are good, but their standard of "accurrate" isn't the same as mine. Mine wouldn't group below 1moa consistently..

That barrel I linked you to is a Lothar Walthar, the same stuff LaRue used in their OBR's before they started making their own.

That Spikes Lothar Walthar 16" $299.95 not much more than the Rainier barrel.Looks darn nice.http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTSB51603ML&name=Spike's+Tactical+Lothar+Walther+16%22++Mid-length+SS+Barrel&groupid=927&fprdct=1

I did like the part where they mentioned that Threads Cut Concentric to the Bore. As normally the center of the bore is Not the Center of the barrel.

But can someone explain the Polygonal Rifling? It just seems a bit odd to me.

 

I got a Rainier Select 16" SS Mid-length in 1/8 twist from Joe Bob Outfitters got it in 2 days and the thing is amazing.

I'm just repeating my experience, which I have talked to others who share the same experience where they could never get their barrel to actually group well. Hung around 1 MOA, but never shot under it consistently. For the money, I personally would get that Lothar Walthar.


I am not actively looking for WOA threads to "shit on" here, but If I were to have been posting on here for recommendations for a precision barrel, and took the advice on a WOA, only for it perform like the one I have, I would be less then pleased

 






























 

I would say 1 moa to 0.5 moa is huge and well worth $50 to $100 if that is the difference in price between the two barrels.  I have no experience with either the WOA or Lothar Walther barrels, but if I were buying one today for an ar15 I would get the Lothar Walther.

I've heard a lot of good and read some bad about the WOA barrels.  I take a lot of that with a grain of salt because you never know all of the variables or the shooter.   I can't recall ever hearing anything bad about a Lothar Walther barrel on this forum though.  

The fact is if you buy a stainless barrel from a known maker/vendor you're probably going to end up with a very good barrel. I think it would be harder to find a shitty barrel in the options we have available today. Pick one you like and fits your budget. You will also have to factor into your budget a quality trigger and ammunition for the best chance of success.

I am working on purchasing this Lothar Walthar 16"  http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTSB51603ML&name=Spike's+Tactical+Lothar+Walther+16%22++Mid-length+SS+Barrel&groupid=927&fprdct=1

Is it a Good idea to also purchase there Matching Bolt Head?

I have bought a few bolts headspaced to my barrels and have never found it to matter as far as accuracy. However, it is good practice to start a new barrel off with a new bolt. If you already have a new bolt I wouldn't bother getting another one, unless of course you want a spare.

It is not a Complete BCG. It is just the Bolt Assembly. Since I know almost O about this stuff I thought there bolt would help with there Head Space?

Which brings me to the subject that I was looking to purchase a Complete Nickel Boron BCG.

If I get there Bolt then I would have to pull the Bolt that comes in the Nickel Boron BCG to replace it with there bolt?

Their headspaced bolt won't matter much, just buy the complete BCG that you want. You're over thinking this.

I would like to ask why you feel I am over thinking this?

Lets just say I thought it would be best to get there Bolt Head to cover myself for warranty if needed if it will not head space with another makers BCG?

Spikes has a lifetime warranty on the barrel and will take care of you if you have any issues with a defective product. Go ahead a buy a ST BCG if that's what you want but it really doesn't matter what brand you use.

This would be a solid choice.
https://www.wmdguns.com/shop-now/wmd-kits/m4-m16-ar-15-full-auto-bolt-carrier-group-polished.html

Are you purchasing a barrel with a bolt specifically matched to that barrel or are you just buying a bolt from the same manufacturer?   Most people just check with a go/no go gauge, but that just makes sure you are in spec and safe.  There may be a specific headspace within that range that provides better accuracy.

If you are looking to go beyond just a go/no gauge and are looking for a specific headspace measurement then you need something like this set:
Headspace gauges

My point is that even if you buy the spikes lothar walther barrel and a spikes bolt you should be within the go/no go range, but it will not necessarily result in improved accuracy over any other bolt that is within spec.  If you buy a bolt specifically matched to that barrel and they took the extra step to find the exact headspace beyond just passing a go/no go then maybe you would gain a small amount.  

There are other things like lapping the upper receiver to make sure it is square with the bore if you are looking to go that extra mile.  There is a lot you can do with the gun and reloading wise that may only gain you 1/8" to 1/4" moa over just putting it together with good parts and no extra steps.  The limitations of the platform will always be there no matter what you do so it's up to you if you want to go through all the work for that extra 1/8" or if you are even a good enough to shooter to notice that small amount.

As I understand it the Bolt is Matched to that Barrel.

But I will make sure of this first. If it is just a pull of the shelf bolt then I will forgo the bolt and just use a complete BCG.

The headspace will be set when the barrels extension is installed on the barrel. Your bolt will not be born with your barrel. The bolt is pretty much pulled off the shelf and checked for excessive slop(compared to several other bolts) which would be very small number if measured. In my experience, I have yet to find the bolt to make any difference in regards to accuracy with the AR-15.

 

I was not sure if I should post this and if It should not be here please by all means remove it?

But yes I am going to purchase said barrel direct. And no the bolt is an extra cost but by the owners own words they Match the bolt for a proper fit.

Matching= reaching in a box of bolts to find the one that fits best to that barrel. What I am trying to tell you is, the very small amount of difference between one bolt to the next is so small it doesn't matter. I own two barrels that can shoot under a .5MOA. I could swap bolts and it won't make any difference, POI is the same.

Ok so I should forgo the $50.00 for just a Bolt and use that Money towards a complete BCG?

I hope I get a reply to this as I have found a Nickel Boron BCG on sale. :) Ok well with the things keep selling out when I wish to purchase I went ahead and purchased the PSA Nickel Boron BCG as it is on sale for $119.99. :)

Specs of BCG.


Nickel boron coated full-auto profile bolt carrier group.

Milspec Carpenter No. 158® steel bolt
Shot Peened Bolt
High pressure tested
Mag particle inspected
Gas Key Hardened to USGI Specifications
Gas Key Grade 8 Hardened Fasteners
Gas Key Staked Per Mil-Spec
Tool Steel Extractor
Extractor Spring
Extractor O-ring Insert
PSA Logo

But the above question still remains if I should get the bolt from Lothar Walther?

If so I think I am all set as I received the info from Mr Woodall at Lothar Walther barrels to purchase said barrel. I sure hope it works out well?

It's never a bad idea to have a spare bolt. I keep one in the grip on my "go to" rifle. You could buy the one from LW or just buy one in a few months when you find a deal. You got the BCG so your good to go with your build.

I read this awhile ago, and you convinced me. I ordered one.

This sucker really shoots. I am not much of a bench shooter. I also don't spend a lot of time working up loads.
But, shooting prone with a bipod, using either KAC iron sights or an ACOG TA-31, and 77 grain SMKs; I frequently shoot 1 MOA groups at 200 yards. I can't help but to think that off a bench with real bench gear (pedestal, sand bags, better optics....) this barrel might shoot some really great groups.

Thank  You. I purchased the Bolt from LW with the Barrel for $264.00 shipped for the Barrel and Bolt. As I feel in the end you are correct in the fact it is always good to have an extra bolt. And figured $50.00 for a bolt is not all that bad. And it is a darn nice barrel I must say.

As soon as I fire this thing I will report back. But I am waiting on some Nosler 22 Caliber 60 Grain Partition Spitzers and will have to find some CCI-41 Primers then work over some Old Lake City Brass and start load up for hunting. :)

I'm going off on tangent here. What does the phrase "the rifle is more accurate than me" that shows up in this thread a couple of times really mean?

Accuracy has three core variables: the mechanical limits of the rifle, the shooter, and the ammo. Assume the ammo is a constant. If you take a rifle that shoots a 1/2 moa off a machine rest and put it in the hands of a shooter that tends to put 1/2 moa of variability into his groups, your groups will be about 1 moa. If you put that same rifle in the hands of a shooter who puts 2 moa of variability into his groups, the rifle will shoot 2.5 moa groups. You can move the rifle numbers and the shooter numbers around all you want, and the principle stays the same. Any given shooter is only so good. Give him a more accurate rifle, and his group sizes go down. Give him a less accurate rifle, and his group sizes go up. Conversely, put the same rifle in the hands of two shooters, and the rifle's group size shrinks in the hands of the better shooter and expands in the hands or the poorer shooter.

All rifles will put a certain amount of mechanics-based variability into a group. The shooter will put another amount of variability in. No matter how good or bad the shooter is, his groups will benefit from a more accurate rifle and be harmed by a less accurate one. There is no magic point of accuracy in a rifle at which it no longer effects group size because of the shooter's abilities.

If the phrase "the rifle is more accurate than me" really just means that a better shooter can shoot the same rifle better, that's always true regardless of the rifle's accuracy. It goes without saying.

It looks like the OP has already picked a barrel. For what it's worth, I've got a WOA varmint barrel. About 2/3-3/4 of my five shots groups are under 1 moa. Maybe 25% are 1/2 moa. This is with factory ammo. The barrel prefers lighter bullets.

And just to kick the "how short is too short" hornet's nest, for any given bullet weight and twist rate combination, a bullet with a higher muzzle velocity will cover more distance before it destabilizes than a bullet with a lower muzzle velocity. It sounds like the OP's anticipated ranges are not long enough to get into this territory, so maybe it doesn't matter for him.

CTTB Good Going. And by the way you are Correct on both counts one is a more accurate Firearm no matter the shooters abilities is always better and the other count you probably did whack a hornets nest with a bat lol. But non the less it is still correct.

As far as Bullet selection I have some Nosler 60Gr Partitions on the way. As from what I have read they should work well and give less fouling of the barrel than the Barnes. But I may try some of the Barnes 62Gr TSX down the road.

By the same token, anything you can do to improve accuracy has a trickle down effect just like you mention.

Case in point: I shoot in Appleseed events. Most of the people there shoot 22s. The standard of accuracy in Appleseed is 4 MOA. That doesn't sound very good to a lot of people, however that is 4 MOA shooting from field positions with a sling: no bench, no bags, no bipods..............
Anyway, a guy posted on an Appleseed forum about the variability of .22 ammo accuracy. Especially bulk .22 ammo accuracy. He posted some tests he ran using various .22LR ammo and got a certain amount of grief over it. Appleseed is not a competitive shooting event. It's purpose is to teach marksmanship fundamentals and a lot of people involved don't want people to start trying to game it or get all wrapped up in the gear. It isn't about that. But, this guy clearly proved something that I already knew: a lot of bulk .22LR ammo isn't capable of shooting into 4 MOA. So, you can work on your fundamentals until the cows come home and you will never meet the 4 MOA standard if you arn't using a rifle and ammo that is capable of shooting 4 MOA. Even if you have a rifle and ammo that are capable of shooting 4 MOA you now have to add to that, the degree of accuracy you of a shooter are capable of. And since very few people are perfect, if the rifle and ammo are only capable of 4 MOA, you will never shoot a clean target. The better the rifle and ammo shoot, the more human error can be tolorated and still make the 4 MOA benchmark.

This really shouldn't be any big surprise but your groups on target are a combination of factors (as was pointed out in the previous post). You should always be trying to improve all those factors.
Another thing that I guess needs to be pointed out is that you may have a terrific rifle and fantastic ammo: but if you don't have the skills to use it, you won't hit your target or shoot tight groups. The biggest variable is the shooter. And if all you ever do is shoot from a bench for tight groups, you are not developing the skills needed to shoot without artificial support. The whole point of shooting from a bench or from a bipod or any kind of rest is to eliminate human error. Take away that rest and human error is going to play a major role in your shooting. These skills need to be developed just like your gear. Shooting from a bench is a skill set in and of itself and if all you ever intend to do is shoot from a bench, everything is good. But, I personally get more enjoyment out of adding the human element to it and shoot from positions other than from a bench and try to improve myself as well as the gear.

Go to http://www.jsesurplus.com/18.aspx for 18" Wylde Wilson Arms and others.