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Posted: 9/3/2014 9:35:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Could it be tolerance stacking?
Google is your friend!! |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 10:46:44 AM EDT
[#2]
I bought one of Denny's BCGs a couple of years ago shortly before his website disappeared. It's not the IonBond version he was selling; it's the ThunderBolt M16 BCG with the GTS logo laser engraved on the side. It looks very nice, but the inner diameter of the gas key may just be a hair undersized. I've tested it with 3 or 4 different gas tubes and all of them fit really snug. The same gas tubes have no problems fitting into the keys of my BCM (before they started laser engraving their logo) and Rainier Arms Nickel Boron bolt carrier groups. Unfortunately, I don't know who actually manufactured his BCGs.
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Posted: 9/4/2014 10:49:14 AM EDT
[#3]
Can you explain the dragging better?
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Posted: 9/4/2014 11:09:39 AM EDT
[#4]
I'll double check when I get home. For some reason I can't access MDShooters from work today. Mine wasn't ionbonded either, it was one of the earlier ones
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Posted: 9/4/2014 11:17:01 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Alright, I was genuinely shocked here. Years ago when Denny was selling his "Super Duty" BCGs they were genuinely thought to be "The Shit". So, I bought three or four. Fast forward almost 10 years, and I finally get around to using one for a build. The guy putting my upper together (I don't have any of the proper tools etc) informed me that the carrier itself was dragging heavily and was out of spec. His BCGs worked fine and mine dragged in his rifles too. The bolt was GTG, just the carrier was out of whack. Since Denny's is gone, I'm stuck with an out of spec carrier (I've got others though). Anyone ever have any issues with the Denny's BCG? Anyone know what make he used? Denny is coming back, I'll forward this to him and let him deal with you directly. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 11:17:47 AM EDT
[#6]
That's great news!
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Posted: 9/4/2014 5:20:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought one of Denny's BCGs a couple of years ago shortly before his website disappeared. It's not the IonBond version he was selling; it's the ThunderBolt M16 BCG with the GTS logo laser engraved on the side. It looks very nice, but the inner diameter of the gas key may just be a hair undersized. I've tested it with 3 or 4 different gas tubes and all of them fit really snug. The same gas tubes have no problems fitting into the keys of my BCM (before they started laser engraving their logo) and Rainier Arms Nickel Boron bolt carrier groups. Unfortunately, I don't know who actually manufactured his BCGs. <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ocsk8brdr/media/Arfcom/GTS-BCG_zps9fa6c2f2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/ocsk8brdr/Arfcom/GTS-BCG_zps9fa6c2f2.jpg</a> I have a Rainier Arms Thunderbolt I got in a complete upper. I love it! I waited for more to come back in stock, and then they dumped them for the new ones they have now. So, I bought DD instead |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 6:21:25 PM EDT
[#8]
This is what the guy putting my upper together had to say. He knows his stuff really well, so I have no reason to doubt him...
"There is one issue I'm noticing though, the BCG is dragging EXCESSIVELY when mocking it up into the upper. It gets about 5/8 of the way in, and then it binds up pretty hard - enough to where it may not lend itself to reliable operation. I've ruled out the upper being out of spec, 3 diff't BCG's operate smooth as silk in yours. Your BCG also binds up in 3 of my own uppers - to varying degrees. The bolt itself is good, but the carrier is definitely out of whack somewhere - appears to be the friction pads at the 5 and 7 o'clock on the bottom of the carrier." |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 6:23:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Denny did, in fact, make some of the best BCG in his day. Looks like a lemon slipped out though.
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Posted: 9/4/2014 6:26:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Denny did, in fact, make some of the best BCG in his day. Looks like a lemon slipped out though. Kinda what I figured. I purchased quite a few parts from him "back in the day" and he was always good to go and squared away |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 6:42:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what the guy putting my upper together had to say. He knows his stuff really well, so I have no reason to doubt him... "There is one issue I'm noticing though, the BCG is dragging EXCESSIVELY when mocking it up into the upper. It gets about 5/8 of the way in, and then it binds up pretty hard - enough to where it may not lend itself to reliable operation. I've ruled out the upper being out of spec, 3 diff't BCG's operate smooth as silk in yours. Your BCG also binds up in 3 of my own uppers - to varying degrees. The bolt itself is good, but the carrier is definitely out of whack somewhere - appears to be the friction pads at the 5 and 7 o'clock on the bottom of the carrier." Something isn't right, the bore on an upper receiver is supposed to be the SAME DIAMETER internally all the way through. The rails on the carrier are on the front third of the carrier, if it fits fine into the first half or more of the receiver it should be GTG. It's sounds like a combination of Tolerance Stacking & and a out of spec upper Receiver. The upper DEFINITELY has an issue if the bore in the receiver tapers (which from your post sounds like it does) |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 6:53:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something isn't right, the bore on an upper receiver is supposed to be the SAME DIAMETER internally all the way through. The rails on the carrier are on the front third of the carrier, if it fits fine into the first half or more of the receiver it should be GTG. It's sounds like a combination of Tolerance Stacking & and a out of spec upper Receiver. The upper DEFINITELY has an issue if the bore in the receiver tapers (which from your post sounds like it does) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is what the guy putting my upper together had to say. He knows his stuff really well, so I have no reason to doubt him... "There is one issue I'm noticing though, the BCG is dragging EXCESSIVELY when mocking it up into the upper. It gets about 5/8 of the way in, and then it binds up pretty hard - enough to where it may not lend itself to reliable operation. I've ruled out the upper being out of spec, 3 diff't BCG's operate smooth as silk in yours. Your BCG also binds up in 3 of my own uppers - to varying degrees. The bolt itself is good, but the carrier is definitely out of whack somewhere - appears to be the friction pads at the 5 and 7 o'clock on the bottom of the carrier." Something isn't right, the bore on an upper receiver is supposed to be the SAME DIAMETER internally all the way through. The rails on the carrier are on the front third of the carrier, if it fits fine into the first half or more of the receiver it should be GTG. It's sounds like a combination of Tolerance Stacking & and a out of spec upper Receiver. The upper DEFINITELY has an issue if the bore in the receiver tapers (which from your post sounds like it does) The upper is a brand new Aero Precision. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 7:04:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The upper is a brand new Aero Precision. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is what the guy putting my upper together had to say. He knows his stuff really well, so I have no reason to doubt him... "There is one issue I'm noticing though, the BCG is dragging EXCESSIVELY when mocking it up into the upper. It gets about 5/8 of the way in, and then it binds up pretty hard - enough to where it may not lend itself to reliable operation. I've ruled out the upper being out of spec, 3 diff't BCG's operate smooth as silk in yours. Your BCG also binds up in 3 of my own uppers - to varying degrees. The bolt itself is good, but the carrier is definitely out of whack somewhere - appears to be the friction pads at the 5 and 7 o'clock on the bottom of the carrier." Something isn't right, the bore on an upper receiver is supposed to be the SAME DIAMETER internally all the way through. The rails on the carrier are on the front third of the carrier, if it fits fine into the first half or more of the receiver it should be GTG. It's sounds like a combination of Tolerance Stacking & and a out of spec upper Receiver. The upper DEFINITELY has an issue if the bore in the receiver tapers (which from your post sounds like it does) The upper is a brand new Aero Precision. Still, it appears that you have an out of spec upper receiver. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 9:27:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still, it appears that you have an out of spec upper receiver. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is what the guy putting my upper together had to say. He knows his stuff really well, so I have no reason to doubt him... "There is one issue I'm noticing though, the BCG is dragging EXCESSIVELY when mocking it up into the upper. It gets about 5/8 of the way in, and then it binds up pretty hard - enough to where it may not lend itself to reliable operation. I've ruled out the upper being out of spec, 3 diff't BCG's operate smooth as silk in yours. Your BCG also binds up in 3 of my own uppers - to varying degrees. The bolt itself is good, but the carrier is definitely out of whack somewhere - appears to be the friction pads at the 5 and 7 o'clock on the bottom of the carrier." Something isn't right, the bore on an upper receiver is supposed to be the SAME DIAMETER internally all the way through. The rails on the carrier are on the front third of the carrier, if it fits fine into the first half or more of the receiver it should be GTG. It's sounds like a combination of Tolerance Stacking & and a out of spec upper Receiver. The upper DEFINITELY has an issue if the bore in the receiver tapers (which from your post sounds like it does) The upper is a brand new Aero Precision. Still, it appears that you have an out of spec upper receiver. And what bout his gunsmith's 3 uppers that do the same thing there, Sherlock? The common denominator is the carrier. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 9:29:31 PM EDT
[#15]
5/8 of an inch in is not 1/2 of the receiver.
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Posted: 9/4/2014 9:37:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And what bout his gunsmith's 3 uppers that do the same thing there, Sherlock? The common denominator is the carrier. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is what the guy putting my upper together had to say. He knows his stuff really well, so I have no reason to doubt him... "There is one issue I'm noticing though, the BCG is dragging EXCESSIVELY when mocking it up into the upper. It gets about 5/8 of the way in, and then it binds up pretty hard - enough to where it may not lend itself to reliable operation. I've ruled out the upper being out of spec, 3 diff't BCG's operate smooth as silk in yours. Your BCG also binds up in 3 of my own uppers - to varying degrees. The bolt itself is good, but the carrier is definitely out of whack somewhere - appears to be the friction pads at the 5 and 7 o'clock on the bottom of the carrier." Something isn't right, the bore on an upper receiver is supposed to be the SAME DIAMETER internally all the way through. The rails on the carrier are on the front third of the carrier, if it fits fine into the first half or more of the receiver it should be GTG. It's sounds like a combination of Tolerance Stacking & and a out of spec upper Receiver. The upper DEFINITELY has an issue if the bore in the receiver tapers (which from your post sounds like it does) The upper is a brand new Aero Precision. Still, it appears that you have an out of spec upper receiver. And what bout his gunsmith's 3 uppers that do the same thing there, Sherlock? The common denominator is the carrier. Just heard from him again after asking if it wasn't the receiver. "The upper spec'd out just fine. The problem is the carrier, the pad on the bottom right is machined slightly wider than average - .130" and below is what my BCG's are spec'ing out at for the width of that pad, your carrier is spec'ing out at .137" - that isn't a whole lot, but it's enough to jam up the BCG pretty solid." FWIW this was before his BCGs were even laser etched. I bought 'em in '07. And I am not in ANY way bashing Denny. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 10:15:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5/8 of an inch in is not 1/2 of the receiver. You're correct. But since reading is hard. Where does it say 5/8 of an inch? OP: I think it's the inside diameter of the gas key as someone else was eluding to. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 10:26:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Denny did, in fact, make some of the best BCG in his day. Looks like a lemon slipped out though. I have known Denny for more than 20 years. For a number of years we shot matches at the same club. He is a class act... and he has always stood strong for what he sells. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 10:34:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5/8 of an inch in is not 1/2 of the receiver. Quote HistoryQuoted:
5/8 of an inch in is not 1/2 of the receiver. Quoted:
It gets about 5/8 of the way in, and then it binds up pretty hard 
I would agree that the carrier apparently has an issue, but there is absolutely no doubt that the upper receiver is WAY out of spec if what you posted is completely correct. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 6:35:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Damn. I bought 2 of these for spares.
I guess I better try 'em out to be sure. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 8:16:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Width of the pad means nothing on a circle. Sounds like te key is binding on the gas tube. I would take the key off the carrier and try just the carrier.
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Posted: 9/6/2014 8:14:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Width of the pad means nothing on a circle. Sounds like te key is binding on the gas tube. I would take the key off the carrier and try just the carrier. Would be much quicker and easier to take gas tube out. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 10:11:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Width of the pad means nothing on a circle. Sounds like te key is binding on the gas tube. I would take the key off the carrier and try just the carrier. This sounds like the most likely problem. The bore on the upper is round so the width of the bearing surface on the carrier should have no effect. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 8:59:39 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 10/31/2014 1:34:44 AM EDT
[#25]
You know, after all the screwing around with various BCG's I've done (RCA, Mil-spec, Youngs, and other "enhanced" carriers), I really have come to the conclusion that a Colt mil-spec BCG works just fine. Could you do "better"? Maybe. But we KNOW a Colt is G2G.
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