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Posted: 12/13/2014 2:38:12 AM EDT
[#1]
I guess Jerald Saffle decided to run. The ship has gone down and the b! Tch to his whoe wife to cleaner alleys to pimp the c$nt out. His momma taught him well! I think hes still pimping her out poor hag pushing a walker, but Saffle don't care. Anything to make a buck. The sleazier the better!
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Posted: 12/13/2014 11:44:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Sierra Nevada Arms is now featured on Rip Off Report
http://s25.postimg.org/hcanjrs6n/rr2.jpg |
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Posted: 12/13/2014 11:56:16 AM EDT
[#3]
SNA's Web site is "down for maintenance."
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Posted: 12/13/2014 9:36:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Before I knew how big a mess this all was, I ordered some SNA billet uppers and lowers from Botach (who showed them both as in stock and ready to ship). Price seemed too good to be true, but I've never had a problem with Botach in the past (though I know many have). They charged my card right away then I waited and waited. I called and emailed Botach with no reply, finally got someone on instant chat, and was told SNA had the parts at the place that does their phosphate finishing and they would be shipped soon.
A few days later, Botach emailed me and asked me if I wanted to continue to wait. I told them to cancel the order and then never heard back. Two days later, I got a shipping notification. The lowers and uppers arrived at my transfer dealer late last week. They shipped directly from SNA, not from Botach. On the same day they arrived, Botach called me very apologetic that they just saw my cancellation email, but that tracking showed the parts were at my dealer. The lady from Botach seemed sincere and genuinely nervous about calling me, but the timing seemed too much for coincidence. Perhaps she is just caught in less than savory business practices of her employer. At any rate, I told her not to worry about it. Picked them up from my dealer and they look pretty good, though the fit of the uppers and lowers is not as good as I would have expected from billet pieces that are supposedly machined to match and fit each other. My highest serial numbered lower was in the 250s, so I guess they have made at least that many. I wonder how I wound up getting mine through Botach when so many others got screwed? Maybe they were just doing finished lowers instead of sending out the 80% billets? I am very sorry for those who have gotten screwed with the Rockethub deal, but thought this firsthand info might be useful to you. |
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Posted: 12/13/2014 9:42:42 PM EDT
[#5]
I have received zip from SNA or NWCP.
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Posted: 12/13/2014 11:55:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have received zip from SNA or NWCP. I received the ar15 jig from NWCP a almost a year ago. Not impressed with it. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 9:51:07 PM EDT
[#7]
[violet]
Sierra Nevada Arms is becoming a Ripoff Report Rockstar [/violet]
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Posted: 12/17/2014 6:20:41 AM EDT
[#8]
http://www.corporationwiki.com/p/2btqna/jerald-jason-saffle
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Posted: 12/17/2014 8:26:43 PM EDT
[#9]
More unhappy Sierra Nevada Arms Customers
http://nyfirearms.com/forums/vendors/90298-sierra-nevada-arms-2-years-later-still-no-product.html |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 8:27:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Sierra Nv Biceps and triceps took our cash and also the particular handful of tens out of 1000 has received bad away from specification reduces for all our problems. Jerald Saffle can be a douche bag!
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Posted: 12/17/2014 9:36:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sierra Nv Biceps and triceps took our cash and also the particular handful of tens out of 1000 has received bad away from specification reduces for all our problems. Jerald Saffle can be a douche bag! Is this even english? 
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:26:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this even english? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sierra Nv Biceps and triceps took our cash and also the particular handful of tens out of 1000 has received bad away from specification reduces for all our problems. Jerald Saffle can be a douche bag! Is this even english? Seriously! Go home jamesi, you're drunk (or a bot). |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:52:02 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seriously! Go home jamesi, you're drunk (or a bot). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Sierra Nv Biceps and triceps took our cash and also the particular handful of tens out of 1000 has received bad away from specification reduces for all our problems. Jerald Saffle can be a douche bag! Is this even english? Seriously! Go home jamesi, you're drunk (or a bot). If that's a bot, I'm seriously impressed. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:28:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Called NW Custom Precision on Monday. They finally had cleared their voice mail and I left a message with my email address saying I had been sending them emails for months. Got the following reply email that evening.
From: NorthWest Precision <[email protected]>
To: Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 7:04 PM Subject: Re: barrel Please provide details of your order and updated shipping address and I will forward your order for processing. Thanks Team NW Precision Nwprecision.org On Dec 15, 2014, at 10:40 AM, wrote: NW Precision, Looking for an update on a barrel through Rockethub. Replied with my info from Rockethub that day. Unfortunately no further contact. I put a call into them today asking about an shipping time frame. Hopefully this works out. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 3:39:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Sierra Nevada Arms Makes The Ripoff Report Again
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:34:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Guess i am very fortuante to get the partial order I got, hate that I got took for the additional coating on the ones I didn't get
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Posted: 12/24/2014 3:18:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Thinking about filing a complaint. Might be worth the hassle to fill out the forms and file the formal complaint to the FBI.
http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 8:54:01 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thinking about filing a complaint. Might be worth the hassle to fill out the forms and file the formal complaint to the FBI. http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx welcome to the site. what would make it Federal? Sales across state lines? |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 4:18:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Looks like they came up for air.....
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Posted: 12/29/2014 6:33:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like they came up for air..... http://photos.imageevent.com/roosport/roosportmisc/large/SNA.jpg That will hold the masses over for another month or two before another non update. 
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Posted: 12/30/2014 8:40:14 AM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 12/30/2014 9:43:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
[div style='text-align: center;']The Rip Off Reports Sierra Nevada Arms has closed up shop! http://s25.postimg.org/lana5tzlb/RRP4.jpg Sierra Nevada Arms Shop has closed down! did they declare bankruptcy? |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 10:11:07 PM EDT
[#23]
bankruptcy is not a defense against fraud...
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Posted: 12/31/2014 6:30:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
bankruptcy is not a defense against fraud... Also he would have to tell the Judge what he did with the major 'assets' of the firm, ie the CNC machines. If he sold them he has to account for that also. If he converted them to 'personal' assets like a car or house they can be seized and sold also to satisfy creditors. |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 5:07:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
welcome to the site. what would make it Federal? Sales across state lines? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thinking about filing a complaint. Might be worth the hassle to fill out the forms and file the formal complaint to the FBI. http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx welcome to the site. what would make it Federal? Sales across state lines? Thank you. I read and gotten a lot of great info off of here. We'll see how everything goes. The fact that he promised goods and/or services for sale on the internet and failed to deliver on any of them. I would go over there myself and collect the items that I purchased, but I'm currently in Afg. Advertising a product or service, having a paying customer, and then not delivering those goods/services and refusing to do so without a refund without explicitly making it clear on RocketHub. No where on RH does he state, prior to the campaign ending, that there are no refunds. Been over a year and there's been nothing but excuses with no proof of actually making anything. At this point, I'll just take the uncut aluminum blocks and the jigs as well. BTW, this is in reference to Battle Born Tactics, which shares familiar ties to SNA. |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 1:32:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you. I read and gotten a lot of great info off of here. We'll see how everything goes.
The fact that he promised goods and/or services for sale on the internet and failed to deliver on any of them. I would go over there myself and collect the items that I purchased, but I'm currently in Afg. Advertising a product or service, having a paying customer, and then not delivering those goods/services and refusing to do so without a refund without explicitly making it clear on RocketHub. No where on RH does he state, prior to the campaign ending, that there are no refunds. Been over a year and there's been nothing but excuses with no proof of actually making anything. At this point, I'll just take the uncut aluminum blocks and the jigs as well. BTW, this is in reference to Battle Born Tactics, which shares familiar ties to SNA. When I "invested" in the two failed projects on Rockethub, I thought it was pretty clear that there was no guarantee the "rewards" would ever be delivered. Given Rockethub's language on their website, I think we'd have a pretty tough case to prove to a jury that fraud was committed. Now, if we can prove that funds from the Rockethub campaign were not sunk into the business, but were spent on personal items - cars, house payments, etc, then we might have a case. But some folks were pointing out @ the time that the aluminum was going for what the campaigns were offering 80% lowers for, so there was a question of the new businesses being able to afford the raw materials from the get go. It was a risk, we all knew it, and for the most part we lost. |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 6:32:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I "invested" in the two failed projects on Rockethub, I thought it was pretty clear that there was no guarantee the "rewards" would ever be delivered. Given Rockethub's language on their website, I think we'd have a pretty tough case to prove to a jury that fraud was committed. Now, if we can prove that funds from the Rockethub campaign were not sunk into the business, but were spent on personal items - cars, house payments, etc, then we might have a case. But some folks were pointing out @ the time that the aluminum was going for what the campaigns were offering 80% lowers for, so there was a question of the new businesses being able to afford the raw materials from the get go. It was a risk, we all knew it, and for the most part we lost. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Thank you. I read and gotten a lot of great info off of here. We'll see how everything goes.
The fact that he promised goods and/or services for sale on the internet and failed to deliver on any of them. I would go over there myself and collect the items that I purchased, but I'm currently in Afg. Advertising a product or service, having a paying customer, and then not delivering those goods/services and refusing to do so without a refund without explicitly making it clear on RocketHub. No where on RH does he state, prior to the campaign ending, that there are no refunds. Been over a year and there's been nothing but excuses with no proof of actually making anything. At this point, I'll just take the uncut aluminum blocks and the jigs as well. BTW, this is in reference to Battle Born Tactics, which shares familiar ties to SNA. When I "invested" in the two failed projects on Rockethub, I thought it was pretty clear that there was no guarantee the "rewards" would ever be delivered. Given Rockethub's language on their website, I think we'd have a pretty tough case to prove to a jury that fraud was committed. Now, if we can prove that funds from the Rockethub campaign were not sunk into the business, but were spent on personal items - cars, house payments, etc, then we might have a case. But some folks were pointing out @ the time that the aluminum was going for what the campaigns were offering 80% lowers for, so there was a question of the new businesses being able to afford the raw materials from the get go. It was a risk, we all knew it, and for the most part we lost. Thing is with SNA selling and delivering ones to folks BEFORE taking care of his funders is proof enough right there for fraud. |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 9:18:23 PM EDT
[#28]
There are Sierra Nevada Arms customers that made full payments for rifle kits after the Rockethub campaign ended and still have nothing a year later.
IS THAT FRAUD? |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 3:05:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Actually, no. When you made an investment with Rockethub, you were investing in a start up company. The items you were receiving in exchange for your $$ were "gifts & rewards', not products you were purchasing.
Read Rockethub's fine print....it's all there. Now, the people that paid to upgrade to cerekote, or purchased off their website....that's another story. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 3:07:31 AM EDT
[#30]
Sorry....I didn't read that fully---- Yes, the people that ordered outside of Rockethub and did not receive anything have a case against SNA....
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Posted: 1/7/2015 12:05:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry....I didn't read that fully---- Yes, the people that ordered outside of Rockethub and did not receive anything have a case against SNA.... the reality is that this would be a case of first impression. I don't believe there is any case law regarding "investments" where the returns are products. If anything the case would be tried under investment law, but the hurdles are much higher, because we would need to prove intent to defraud up front. The better course would be a class action against Rockethub for participating in the fraud. Again, tough to prove (they were at arms length), probably not a lot of assets, and the only people to get money would be the lawyers. |
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Posted: 1/7/2015 2:03:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the reality is that this would be a case of first impression. I don't believe there is any case law regarding "investments" where the returns are products. If anything the case would be tried under investment law, but the hurdles are much higher, because we would need to prove intent to defraud up front.
The better course would be a class action against Rockethub for participating in the fraud. Again, tough to prove (they were at arms length), probably not a lot of assets, and the only people to get money would be the lawyers. Rockethub is merely a broker. They participated less in the fraud than we did. Their TOS spells out very clearly that you can lose your shirt. We have no more case against Rockethub than we do against you. |
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Posted: 1/7/2015 3:58:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rockethub is merely a broker. They participated less in the fraud than we did. Their TOS spells out very clearly that you can lose your shirt. We have no more case against Rockethub than we do against you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: the reality is that this would be a case of first impression. I don't believe there is any case law regarding "investments" where the returns are products. If anything the case would be tried under investment law, but the hurdles are much higher, because we would need to prove intent to defraud up front.
The better course would be a class action against Rockethub for participating in the fraud. Again, tough to prove (they were at arms length), probably not a lot of assets, and the only people to get money would be the lawyers. Rockethub is merely a broker. They participated less in the fraud than we did. Their TOS spells out very clearly that you can lose your shirt. We have no more case against Rockethub than we do against you. I said "better" - I didn't say "good."
The cold reality is that, unless a friendly Attorney General shows interest in applying pressure, the money is lost. Every one of us clicked through at least 2 warnings that this wasn't a retail transaction and that our investments could be lost, etc. I posted at least 3 times that people needed to stop looking at it like a mail order transaction. I personally got taken for 2 lowers by Pebble Peak; sure, I'd like my money back, but I don't have a lot of righteous indignation about it. I played; I lost. |
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Posted: 1/7/2015 4:13:22 PM EDT
[#34]
I agree - I'm out the cost of 8 lowers, and 4 cerakote upgrades. While I would very much like my $$ back, it's not going to break me if I never see it again - I knew the risks, and played accordingly. I'm more interested is seeing Saffle get what's coming to him - You can't rip off an entire industry worth of gun enthusiasts, and not expect some sort of repercussion.
As far as the $$ goes, I think I still came out ahead on the Rockethub gamble....Where I lost the whole bet with Sierra, I won with NWCP - over a dozen uppers, half dozen lowers, a gorgeous FDE complete upper w/fluted barrel, and a beautiful AR10 upper/lower set in my hands. Plus 4 AR15 jigs & an AR10 jig to complete the lowers....my return is much higher than my investment, IMO. |
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Posted: 1/8/2015 5:02:44 PM EDT
[#35]
Local tv reporter (KOIN 6) just did a story on NWCP because of a tip of a ripoff alert. The company would not answer their phone, but did respond to an email. They told them they are a victim of the economy, and are closing their doors. As it turns out the Oregon attorney general is investigating.
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Posted: 1/8/2015 6:16:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Do you have a link to the news story?? I've been all over the news website, and can't find anything...
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Posted: 1/8/2015 6:37:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have a link to the news story?? I've been all over the news website, and can't find anything... I looked as well, but they do not have it up yet on the website. It was on the news at noon today. I did send them an email asking for them to put it on the website, and notified them of Sierra Nevada Arms as well while I was at it. |
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Posted: 1/8/2015 6:56:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Cool, thanks! I sent them an email, a FB message, and posted on their wall, asking for a link. Please post the link, if you get it, and I will do the same!
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Posted: 1/13/2015 9:16:39 PM EDT
[#39]
I figured out how to get sna to reply... tell them you are in Reno and are going to pick up your order. moments later they reply to your email questioning when you would be stopping by. Give it a try. Needless to say I didn't stop by but you could sense the Oh Sh*! Mind as well mess with them??? Your not ever going to see your order
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Posted: 1/26/2015 9:46:28 PM EDT
[#40]
I live just north of Springfield by just under two hours. I called the number listed as the admin and tech in the domain registrar and talk to the guy who is the web admin. He told me I got through just because my number originated from Oregon and he doesn't normally answer calls that aren't on the "list" of number to answer for. He wouldn't divuldge any info about NWCP and said all of his clients info is protected. He did say that NWCP is going though rough economic times and that's it. End of convo. I will say that NWCP has shipped to me most of what I have ordered from them, with the exception of the 308 receiver sets. I'd really just like my receivers and not a refund.
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Posted: 1/27/2015 2:01:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Just found out that Robert Cline's new business (Survivor Tactical), now that NWCP has been dissolved via paperwork filed with the state of OR, has a mailing address of the same storage unit, and a business address filed with Oregon in a UPS Store in Springfield. Sounds pretty legit....
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Posted: 1/27/2015 3:17:08 PM EDT
[#42]
SNA posted another update to FB. Basically same thing, you WILL get your orders... eventually
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Posted: 1/27/2015 4:41:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SNA posted another update to FB. Basically same thing, you WILL get your orders... eventually The last time he posted an update I said it would be another month before another non update. He didn't like when I posted see every one in a month for another non update either. Lol. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 4:51:49 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The last time he posted an update I said it would be another month before another non update. He didn't like when I posted see every one in a month for another non update either. Lol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SNA posted another update to FB. Basically same thing, you WILL get your orders... eventually The last time he posted an update I said it would be another month before another non update. He didn't like when I posted see every one in a month for another non update either. Lol. he also said, don't ask for more updates in the comments 
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Posted: 1/28/2015 6:09:23 PM EDT
[#45]
I'm in contact with KOIN (local news channel) and will post any info I get from them about NWCP here.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 12:31:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm in contact with KOIN (local news channel) and will post any info I get from them about NWCP here. Cool, I dont know how far they will take it though. Brent, and the rest of the crew there at KOIN seem pretty anti gun for the most part. To bad, but there is only one reporter on all of our local news that I would say is not an anti, and that is Steve Dunn. The rest of them can suck an egg for all I care. I hope they get a good story out of it, and don't spin it against us with the Oregon session coming on line in the 2nd. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 4:20:50 AM EDT
[#47]
What about having someone that is trusted to go over and pick up the products from the SNA and BBT? Not sure if that was brought up before. It would be perfectly legal since they are not firearms.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 9:17:35 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about having someone that is trusted to go over and pick up the products from the SNA and BBT? Not sure if that was brought up before. It would be perfectly legal since they are not firearms. i stopped by SNA and they were willing to give to me what i bought and they only asked i give a favorable review. not sure if they're worried about losing lot of money because of shipping or just what
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Posted: 1/29/2015 9:49:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yup. i suggested this a couple months ago in this thread i stopped by SNA and they were willing to give to me what i bought and they only asked i give a favorable review. not sure if they're worried about losing lot of money because of shipping or just what Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What about having someone that is trusted to go over and pick up the products from the SNA and BBT? Not sure if that was brought up before. It would be perfectly legal since they are not firearms. yup. i suggested this a couple months ago in this thread i stopped by SNA and they were willing to give to me what i bought and they only asked i give a favorable review. not sure if they're worried about losing lot of money because of shipping or just what I would go myself just out of principle alone, but I'm stuck in Afghanistan. I spent about $420 with BBT. I just recently sent them 2 emails and they have not responded to a single email and they blocked me on FB. I really do want to get what I paid for in before I come home on R/R in a few months. I'll even take the solid, uncut ingots from them. But they rate that they're going, it's making them look like all they care about is the money and to fuck over the customers. I doubt that Jacob DeCremer, Battle Born Tactics supposed CEO, was even in the military. If he was in the military like he claims, he'd have the integrity to make good on his promises and quit pussy-footing around. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:27:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cool, I dont know how far they will take it though. Brent, and the rest of the crew there at KOIN seem pretty anti gun for the most part. To bad, but there is only one reporter on all of our local news that I would say is not an anti, and that is Steve Dunn. The rest of them can suck an egg for all I care. I hope they get a good story out of it, and don't spin it against us with the Oregon session coming on line in the 2nd. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm in contact with KOIN (local news channel) and will post any info I get from them about NWCP here. Cool, I dont know how far they will take it though. Brent, and the rest of the crew there at KOIN seem pretty anti gun for the most part. To bad, but there is only one reporter on all of our local news that I would say is not an anti, and that is Steve Dunn. The rest of them can suck an egg for all I care. I hope they get a good story out of it, and don't spin it against us with the Oregon session coming on line in the 2nd. If I get the story rolling there an aired I'm going to forward it to Lars Larson as well. |
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