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jackpinesavage69
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Posted: 10/4/2012 10:45:51 AM
Im looking into the roller cam pin from POF for a piston build. Any reasons why it would be better than the regular cam pin or should I stick with the original?
devinsdad
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Posted: 10/4/2012 12:58:35 PM
The theory behind POF's pin seem sound. Add to that the coating and it looks like it would be a sure fire win... Right? Fact of the matter is that the old one simply works, and rather well at that. Lots of tests out there comparing the two, but I don't know if I've ever come across a really good reason for spending the money. One of those items that's looking for a problem to fix. Don't think it's a bad thing mind you, I just question it's need.
308Sako
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Posted: 10/5/2012 7:12:58 PM
I purchased one from Rainer for an 18" SPR build and found that it does not work with a standard gas key. The key itself would need to be relieved to allow one to disassemble the bolt and carrier group.
StrangerDanger
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Posted: 10/6/2012 6:30:56 AM
To use the POF Rollercam with a DI rifle, you need to replace the gas key with a POF modified unit that has a milled groove that allows the cam pin to pass beneath the gas key.

The set isn't that much money from POF, but many people don't have the proper tools to replace the gas key. I should rephrase that, replace the gas key properly.

Some people have issues removing the existing gas key since they're usually red locktited in place, and staked. If the staking is properly done, it should take about a 100 in. lbs. to break the fasteners free. However, if someone was overly aggressive with the staking, you may strip the fastener. The typical L wrench allen tools won't cut it to break the fastener free. You're going to need more leverage. I like to use a 12" socket wrench with the proper allen bit.

Once broken free, the old fasteners should be thrown away. The threads of both the bolt carrier and the fasteners should be cleaned with acetone or the Locktite primer. I like to apply a small amount of Permatex between the bolt carrier and the gas key.

I then apply red locktite to the fasteners and torque them down between 50 - 58 in. lbs.

The key is then staked in place by a tool I bought from Brownells.

The trouble is, it's a lot of money in tooling if you don't already have the in. lbs torque wrench, key staker and the cost of the upgrade.

Bottom line, is it worth the trouble? The action certainly is smoother with the unit installed.
TaylorWSO
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Posted: 10/6/2012 4:29:13 PM

Originally Posted By jackpinesavage69:
Im looking into the roller cam pin from POF for a piston build. Any reasons why it would be better than the regular cam pin or should I stick with the original?

I think there has only been one broken cam pin I ever have seen posted on here, and it was a cheap companies.


Out of all the things that people "think" need upgrading, the cam pin is not one of them

YMMV
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PursuitSS
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Posted: 10/6/2012 8:28:11 PM
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By jackpinesavage69:
Im looking into the roller cam pin from POF for a piston build. Any reasons why it would be better than the regular cam pin or should I stick with the original?

I think there has only been one broken cam pin I ever have seen posted on here, and it was a cheap companies.


Out of all the things that people "think" need upgrading, the cam pin is not one of them

YMMV


I agree that the csm pin doesn't need "fixed". I guess I've been damn unlucky as I have broken two cam pins.
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"

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TaylorWSO
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Posted: 10/7/2012 7:08:06 AM
[Last Edit: 10/7/2012 7:08:44 AM by TaylorWSO]

Originally Posted By PursuitSS:


I agree that the csm pin doesn't need "fixed". I guess I've been damn unlucky as I have broken two cam pins.

manf/rounds. Just posting a drive by is really worthless.
Anything is possible, everything is temporary
Just_Tom
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Posted: 10/14/2012 4:16:53 AM
Google "pof customer service." They get some of the worst reviews in the industry. That alone would make me never want to purchase anything from them, even if they were giving away free AR's. Well, maybe I'd take a free one, but I'd probably sell it.
Swat_dude
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Posted: 10/15/2012 5:58:59 PM
Out of all these posts, no one mentioned what the POF roller pin is for. It is to prevent the dreaded upper gouge that occurs with all DI and Piston guns, although it can me more prevalent on piston guns due to the altered operational properties. Do a search on upper gouge. It isn't a gimmick. It is to prevent a specific problem with the Stoner design, i.e., the cam pin not fully aligning behind the gas key prior to rearward travel and gouging the upper. Once the gouge settles in, it won't go any deeper, but the roller pin can help prevent it on new guns. Look for aluminum flakes around the lugs and in the trigger guard as evidence of upper gouge. If you've already run 1000 rounds through your gun, there is probably no point in purchasing it.
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TaylorWSO
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Posted: 10/15/2012 9:25:53 PM

Originally Posted By Swat_dude:
Out of all these posts, no one mentioned what the POF roller pin is for. It is to prevent the dreaded upper gouge that occurs with all DI and Piston guns, although it can me more prevalent on piston guns due to the altered operational properties. Do a search on upper gouge. It isn't a gimmick. It is to prevent a specific problem with the Stoner design, i.e., the cam pin not fully aligning behind the gas key prior to rearward travel and gouging the upper. Once the gouge settles in, it won't go any deeper, but the roller pin can help prevent it on new guns. Look for aluminum flakes around the lugs and in the trigger guard as evidence of upper gouge. If you've already run 1000 rounds through your gun, there is probably no point in purchasing it.

so if it doesn't do any to affect function, and millions of uppers have shot billions of rounds, why is it needed?


I just looked at MY 50K+ piston upper- no gouge.
Anything is possible, everything is temporary
Swat_dude
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Posted: 10/16/2012 12:47:05 AM
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Swat_dude:
Out of all these posts, no one mentioned what the POF roller pin is for. It is to prevent the dreaded upper gouge that occurs with all DI and Piston guns, although it can me more prevalent on piston guns due to the altered operational properties. Do a search on upper gouge. It isn't a gimmick. It is to prevent a specific problem with the Stoner design, i.e., the cam pin not fully aligning behind the gas key prior to rearward travel and gouging the upper. Once the gouge settles in, it won't go any deeper, but the roller pin can help prevent it on new guns. Look for aluminum flakes around the lugs and in the trigger guard as evidence of upper gouge. If you've already run 1000 rounds through your gun, there is probably no point in purchasing it.

so if it doesn't do any to affect function, and millions of uppers have shot billions of rounds, why is it needed?


I just looked at MY 50K+ piston upper- no gouge.


Are you still on the original barrel? It can only improve operation since the cam pin will glide like a bearing inside the upper. Some guns are not affected by gouge. It has to do with lug alignment.
America HALF STUPID=Obama 46% approval rating.
Gator57
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Posted: 10/16/2012 6:01:55 AM
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
......so if it doesn't do any to affect function, and millions of uppers have shot billions of rounds, why is it needed?....

The answer to that question is simple really....it appears that a lot of people love the AR platform so much that as soon as they get one they
start looking for parts that can be replaced, upgraded, modified, etc., ending up with something so completely different they
finally realize that apparently they didn't really like the AR in the first place.
But no, I have never seen a reason to replace the original cam pin either.
TaylorWSO
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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:56:33 AM

Originally Posted By Swat_dude:

Are you still on the original barrel? It can only improve operation since the cam pin will glide like a bearing inside the upper. Some guns are not affected by gouge. It has to do with lug alignment.

no I posted here about it, the barrel was smooth.


I don't think something with small bearings inside a upper is a good idea, when a solid piece has worked for a long time, ymmv
Anything is possible, everything is temporary
Swat_dude
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Posted: 10/16/2012 1:25:54 PM
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Swat_dude:

Are you still on the original barrel? It can only improve operation since the cam pin will glide like a bearing inside the upper. Some guns are not affected by gouge. It has to do with lug alignment.

no I posted here about it, the barrel was smooth.


I don't think something with small bearings inside a upper is a good idea, when a solid piece has worked for a long time, ymmv


It doesn't have small bearings inside. It basically consist of the round, roller piece sitting on mini shaft which is mechanically bonded at the top to make sure it never separates.The teflon impregnated nickel coating provides the "bearing" surface.
America HALF STUPID=Obama 46% approval rating.