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Posted: 6/10/2011 11:54:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2011 11:37:56 PM EST by GlockBeni]
A couple weeks ago I put a post about me cracking the rear take down pin on my Plum Crazy Firearm lower(http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=538432 other post) WELL. I guess I over looked another problem




Make a long story short. I went out a several weeks ago an started shooting my ar15 I assembled. I noticed every once in a while it wouldn't spit the casing out and it will stove pipe on me. after about the 4Th time it happened I went to take the rifle apart an noticed the rear take down pin was half missing. I had to use my sight tool handle to get inside the hole to push the pin out and it came all the way through. Sent a message to PCF and they said they would send me a new pin just give them a brief description on what happened. Well i went to take some pictures today an that's when I noticed the huge stress looking crack on the rear of the lower.That would explain the ejection problem..lol...atleast one issue is fixed...

Ps. I was doing double tap drills. No extreme or erratic shooting.




UPDATE. PCF sent me a new lower but to be honest. I'm disappointed in the quality the new lower they sent me. Looks like it was rushed. The edges are the serial number aren't smooth and a couple blemishes.It smelt like it was fired so they did test it. all in all its a lower that will be used so it being a little rough doesn't bother me to much but if you worked in an auto body shop would you send out a car out with fish eyes still in the paint? oh well i guess. hopefully PSA can get me there lower soon.


I was planning on doing some shooting tomorrow but I guess Ill have to wait until I talk to PCF on Monday!!!!
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5319/5818799409_a910e1a2c0.jpg
IMAG0037 by bxcountryboy, on Flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2627/5818776285_d1ac742071.jpg
IMAG0038 by bxcountryboy, on Flickr
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 11:58:02 AM EST
Yep, it's a plastic receiver allright. Sorry about your bad luck, file it under lesson learned.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 11:58:49 AM EST
Wow that sucks

That alone is why i dont like polymer lowers
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 12:03:55 PM EST
Yeah.... I wanted a light cheap gun to do local rifle shoots sucks to look at boxes of 223 just sitting on my closet an not being able to shoot..lol. I how I just got a friday or monday made lower. and when they replace it (since they have a lifetime warranty) it will be all better.. I hope
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 12:05:36 PM EST
You should retitle your post in a more informative way. And offer a link to the other thread, and detail the problem a little bit more.

This is a tech forum and this is good reference material, should be better formatted for search purposes.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 12:22:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/10/2011 12:22:39 PM EST by die-tryin]
Thats why I dont like Plastic guns.


<––––25555
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 12:30:00 PM EST
Don't you have another AR to shoot? I could see using one of these as a test or play rifle. But not my only one and just for this reason. I bring spare rifles to the range just in case one goes down I hate to waste the day.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 12:32:20 PM EST
I dont have another ar. but do have other rifles that will get played with...
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 12:35:51 PM EST
You might be able to repair it and use it as a dedicated .22lr AR????
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 12:41:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
You might be able to repair it and use it as a dedicated .22lr AR????


Im not repairing it. Ill let PCF repair it. lol.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 12:44:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Wow that sucks

That alone is why i dont like polymer lowers


People don't this problem with the old Cav Arms lowers. Polymer can work, just not in a design meant for aluminum.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 1:34:52 PM EST
Very disturbing indeed - please file an AAR - I was thinking of one for a dedicated .22 build . . .
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 1:42:32 PM EST
What do you expect from plastic.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 1:54:30 PM EST
yet HK g36 / g3 plastic lowers dont crack.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 2:02:02 PM EST
Your plastic lower receiver cracked? That is just "Plum Crazy".. lol
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 2:05:58 PM EST
Yes cheap plastic AR lowers, the back often falls off
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 2:08:56 PM EST
Never thought they were a good idea, yes a lot of people buy them and have no problems but........
My luck it would grenade on me, I also dont trust the Carbon 15s Nice and lite just dont trust them
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 2:32:10 PM EST
I have been planning on picking up a plum crazy lower for a light weight build I am wanting to do. But your pictures have changed my mind. I will be building a light weight AR but it will be based on an aluminum lower.

thanks for the information and the great pictures nice and clear
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 2:40:18 PM EST
I was very close to buying a PC lower for my first build but decided against it. I figured I would just build a regular lower for a few dollars more.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 2:41:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By azmp5:
yet HK g36 / g3 plastic lowers dont crack.


that is because they are designed from the ground up to be polymer.

AR's were not.

This is a common issue that manufacturers find when they try and shoehorn materials/retrofit assemblies into the AR platform. The only "reliable" polymer lowers are the Cav Arms ones.. because they were specifically designed to overcome these issues.

If you want a polymer rifle, buy one that was designed to be polymer.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 2:56:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By durabo:
Originally Posted By azmp5:
yet HK g36 / g3 plastic lowers dont crack.


that is because they are designed from the ground up to be polymer.

AR's were not.

This is a common issue that manufacturers find when they try and shoehorn materials/retrofit assemblies into the AR platform. The only "reliable" polymer lowers are the Cav Arms ones.. because they were specifically designed to overcome these issues.

If you want a polymer rifle, buy one that was designed to be polymer.


This...I don't know about the G36, but the G3 has metal reinforcements in the rear, and also the front. I believe the cavarms lower also has metal in it?
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 3:08:03 PM EST
had a sigma once and will never own another plastic gun as a result. you could actually see the frame bulge out on the side as you pulled the trigger. the front of the frame bowed up slightly to the point where it rubbed the slide.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 3:57:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
Your plastic lower receiver cracked? That is just "Plum Crazy".. lol




Made me laugh!
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 4:08:41 PM EST
I'd tell them to shove it up their ass.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 6:04:52 PM EST
I'm not going to bash PCF just yet. I mean SH@T happens. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm just hoping that this product was a Friday or Monday made lower. Yes something like this more than likely would of never happened with a aluminium lower but hey if they have the warranty and truly stand by it im not worried "YET"
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 6:40:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By wendell:
had a sigma once and will never own another plastic gun as a result. you could actually see the frame bulge out on the side as you pulled the trigger. the front of the frame bowed up slightly to the point where it rubbed the slide.


You can't compare that with other polymer framed guns. It doesn't even feel like the polymer used in HK, Glock, M&P, Sig Sauer, Walther, etc. That was a cheaply designed firearm and it came out as such. You could find deals at regular big box gun stores for $200 bucks - seriously.


PC doesn't have metal reinforcements in the receiver?
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 6:59:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By storminnorman:
I'd tell them to shove it up their ass.


lmao
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 7:01:56 PM EST
OP, sucks about your luck. Personally, I would try to get a refund. If all they can do is replace it then I would put a 22LR upper on it and get a forged lower for your .223/5.56 upper.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 7:12:32 PM EST
And they say the lower does not get stressed. The pin area is important to overall stability of the AR.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 7:17:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By Beyond_Visual_Range:
And they say the lower does not get stressed. The pin area is important to overall stability of the AR.


Thought the same thing. Just send it back and have them replace it.

Link Posted: 6/10/2011 7:21:07 PM EST


THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT THE OP:

A few months ago when everybody was buying these I said they would probably regret it when they broke and got cussed out and told that I was stupid because PCM is sooooo awesome.... all's I'm gonna say is, told ya'll so!

- Clint
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 8:14:43 PM EST
In before a bunch of new members with low post counts come in and talk about how PC is so awesome............

OP - this isn't exactly a new issue. It sucks to be the actual person, but there's been a lot of anecdotal and actual issues with these lowers.
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 1:30:37 AM EST
Like others have said, I don't think it's a question of polymer being a bad material for a firearm, but more of a question of polymer being bad for an AR15.
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 2:27:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2011 2:28:51 AM EST by MSPRet]
If you want a polymer lower for your AR watch for a Cav Arms, the only way to go ploymer and not regret it. I avoided polymer like the plague until I saw a Cav Arms on the EE for a deal I could not refuse. It worked out so great I watched for and bought another. They both run great and no regrets with either of them. I agree about avoiding the PC's. The PC's do have some inherent problems which are not present in the Cav Arms design....<><....:)
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 4:57:52 AM EST
Couple of drops of superglue and that thing should be gtg for an airsoft battle...
I was thinking about getting one for giggles, but I am not going to now.
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 8:17:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By GlockBeni:
I'm not going to bash PCF just yet. I mean SH@T happens. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm just hoping that this product was a Friday or Monday made lower. Yes something like this more than likely would of never happened with a aluminium lower but hey if they have the warranty and truly stand by it im not worried "YET"

I'll bash them for you.

Screw that cheap plastic shit.


I don't understand the fad of buying this garbage for a "lightweight build".
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 9:33:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2011 9:34:19 AM EST by Beyond_Visual_Range]
As we all know, ACR has plastic lower too. Magpul seems to know their plastic design well, so I'm not too worried, but none the less this may be a reason that the Remington's military version of ACR Masada has alloy lower, and not plastic.
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 9:57:12 AM EST
The thing I keep wondering is if this receiver can't hold up well under regular use, what will happen if it gets a hot load? Will it cost the shooter a limb, maybe their face, or worse, their life?
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 10:12:13 AM EST
Well I'm definitely not a new member with a low post count, but I bought one out of curiosity. Mine worked for a range toy just fine. I especially like the crisp trigger. I have since replaced it with a Spikes lower with a PSA parts kit.

Still got the Plum Crazy so I plan to keep my eyes open for a .22 upper on the EE. One can never have too many toys.
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 11:47:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By durabo:
Originally Posted By azmp5:
yet HK g36 / g3 plastic lowers dont crack.


that is because they are designed from the ground up to be polymer.

AR's were not.

This is a common issue that manufacturers find when they try and shoehorn materials/retrofit assemblies into the AR platform. The only "reliable" polymer lowers are the Cav Arms ones.. because they were specifically designed to overcome these issues.

If you want a polymer rifle, buy one that was designed to be polymer.


Negative. Even HK G36 and UMP (to include SL-8 and USC) have had cracking and a few melting issues.

I've tried a PC lower. It wouldn't PROPERLY fit 3 known good quality uppers I had w/o the need to file the rear take down hole in order to fit or forced the pins shut, which i did. When I forced it shut I had to tap the rear takedown pin using a pin and hammer. I thought the front take down pin was going to break b/c/ alot of pressure was on it. n It looks like to me this PC lower had similar issues. I'm surprised the rear take down gave out before the front. I sold the lower to a friend who knew the issues.
Link Posted: 6/15/2011 3:07:11 AM EST
One of PCF's selling points is the snug fit. The polymer is supposed to give a little to allow for a snug fit. I'm wondering if this fit can be too tight in some cases, causing the receivers to crack? I also wonder if it's the type of polymer itself which is the problem, or if it could be inconsistencies in the material when it is formed or molded? I also wonder if the type of stock could affect the rear part of the receiver's durability? Could an A2 style stock affect the receiver differently than a collapsible stock?
Link Posted: 6/17/2011 10:38:08 AM EST
Just a up date on things....!!!


Contacted PCF via voice mail left a message a day later received a call an 20 minutes after that received my email with shipping label.
No hassle just good customer service. I will be getting a aluminium lower once everything is said an done.


As far as the fit was with the upper it was pretty snug. No play between upper an lower. The stock PCF come with are the commercial tapco stock an buffer. Hopefully I can get my lower back an have some practice before the next rifle match.
Link Posted: 6/17/2011 1:03:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2011 1:10:49 PM EST by CJan_NH]
Good luck GB

I recently bought a trio of PC lowers for rimfire builds-I have several NIB Kuehl upper halves looking for permanent homes. I've been asked to help teach basic firearm safety and marksmanship at a summer church camp this August. I figured the AR platform would be more fun for the kids than single shot 22s. My 13 year old daughter will be one of my "assistants", but she'll have her LE6920 (at her insistence). She is greatly looking forward to teaching some of her male classmates, so it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/17/2011 3:37:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
Your plastic lower receiver cracked? That is just "Plum Crazy".. lol



On all my plastic guns I use Testors model cement.
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 11:38:31 AM EST
I thought it was well known (ar15.com atleast) that the quality of Plum Crazy lowers wasn't there. If I was you I'd try and get my money back and just go buy a REAL lower. Heck, PalmettoStateArmory has lowers for $50 right now.
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 2:11:43 PM EST
My Plum Crazy lower on my first and only AR15 failed on me today.

I had been having problems with failure to feed from the get go. I began thinking this was a buffer spring issue. Today I go to shoot, and again after the third round a failure to feed. I drop the magazine, clear the round, reload and again failure to feed. Only this time the bolt drives the round so tight into the chamber it won't free. I take it aside and the range officer and I take the upper off. While he looks at the upper, I notice that the buffer retainer is sticking up at an angle and the buffer is pushing it that way. The polymer around the buffer retainer is broken and just holding on. This is after less than one hundred rounds total through the weapon. Of course this happens on a Saturday afternoon, so when I call all I get is an automated message.

I so wanted to get my first AR and I thought that PCF might be the way to go as it was less expensive. Now I wish I had just got an AK or an SKS.
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 3:19:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By vf0phoenix:
My Plum Crazy lower on my first and only AR15 failed on me today.

I had been having problems with failure to feed from the get go. I began thinking this was a buffer spring issue. Today I go to shoot, and again after the third round a failure to feed. I drop the magazine, clear the round, reload and again failure to feed. Only this time the bolt drives the round so tight into the chamber it won't free. I take it aside and the range officer and I take the upper off. While he looks at the upper, I notice that the buffer retainer is sticking up at an angle and the buffer is pushing it that way. The polymer around the buffer retainer is broken and just holding on. This is after less than one hundred rounds total through the weapon. Of course this happens on a Saturday afternoon, so when I call all I get is an automated message.

I so wanted to get my first AR and I thought that PCF might be the way to go as it was less expensive. Now I wish I had just got an AK or an SKS.


Or a "REAL" lower.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 12:50:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/19/2011 12:53:24 AM EST by LGK]

Originally Posted By subterfugeinc:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Wow that sucks

That alone is why i dont like polymer lowers


People don't this problem with the old Cav Arms lowers. Polymer can work, just not in a design meant for aluminum.

Cav Arms lowers work because they buff the area with more plastic to insure that cracks like the OP doesn't happen.

Link Posted: 6/19/2011 12:57:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By vf0phoenix:
My Plum Crazy lower on my first and only AR15 failed on me today.

I had been having problems with failure to feed from the get go. I began thinking this was a buffer spring issue. Today I go to shoot, and again after the third round a failure to feed. I drop the magazine, clear the round, reload and again failure to feed. Only this time the bolt drives the round so tight into the chamber it won't free. I take it aside and the range officer and I take the upper off. While he looks at the upper, I notice that the buffer retainer is sticking up at an angle and the buffer is pushing it that way. The polymer around the buffer retainer is broken and just holding on. This is after less than one hundred rounds total through the weapon. Of course this happens on a Saturday afternoon, so when I call all I get is an automated message.

I so wanted to get my first AR and I thought that PCF might be the way to go as it was less expensive. Now I wish I had just got an AK or an SKS.

What you should have gotten is a REAL LOWER like the other poster posted. Aluminum AR lower doesn't crack. In fact it is more durable than AK (1mm sheet metal receiver) and SKS. The problem with Plum Crazy lowers is that they didn't beef up the areas that needed to be like Cav Arms.

Anyway could you post some pictures.

Link Posted: 6/19/2011 11:26:04 AM EST
With how standard A2 lowers have become, I don't really see why anyone would choose a PCF lower based on cost, or give up on the AR platform because they purchased a product that sacrificed durability and strength for weight.


No Dak Spud has a few A2 lowers left for $75 each, and they come without any silly logos or decorations.
AIM Surplus is selling Spike's Tactical A2 lowers for $79 each if you prefer something with decorations.

If your Plum Crazy lower has a standard stock on it, and IIRC they came with standard M4 style stocks, then you should be able to salvage the stock from your broken Plum Crazy lower, and build up an aluminum lower with the salvaged stock and a standard lower parts kit.

If you can get Plum Crazy to replace your broken plastic lower, then great! Dis-assemble the fire control group (and if theres a stock still on it, remove the buffer and spring) to remove as much spring pressure/tension from the lower as possible, put all the parts in some bags, and store it away in a box somewhere. Someday in the future you might find yourself in a position where you desperately need an AR lower and are completely out of options, and that would be the time to use it...
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 1:22:34 PM EST
Palmetto state armory have Father day sale AR15 lower for $49.
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