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2tonic
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:05:51 AM
Scrolled through the "Trigger comparison " thread but didn't really find an answer to this question......Who makes the best "combat" trigger for a semi-auto AR?
It would seem a clean breaking trigger with a very short reset for quick follow-up shots (i.e. double or triple taps) as offered by the ATC Gold would be optimum, but the drop-in units from Wilson, Timney, and others hold promise.

I'm interested in your opinions. What would your requirements be for a trigger group to suit this purpose? Single or double stage, pull wght, letoff, etc?

durabo
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:29:29 AM
fighting trigger should be milspec weight and such.. IMO.

I think the Spikes Battle trigger is hard to beat in that respect.

But i have heard good things about the new wilson one.
WayneG
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Posted: 1/31/2011 12:44:43 AM

Originally Posted By durabo:
fighting trigger should be milspec weight and such.. IMO.

I think the Spikes Battle trigger is hard to beat in that respect.

But i have heard good things about the new wilson one.
Concur, the Spikes trigger is consistent and simple.

Caelum, non animum mutant, qui trans mare currunt
-Horatius, "Epistulae"

"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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458winmag
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Posted: 1/31/2011 2:07:56 AM
Don't fight the trigger.
Get a SSA
YaNi05
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Posted: 1/31/2011 8:11:41 AM
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 8:13:24 AM by YaNi05]
Originally Posted By durabo:
fighting trigger should be milspec weight and such.. IMO.


The Magpul Dynamics instructors run milspec trigger groups in their carbines. You can shoot damn fast with a parts kit FCG. I'd spend the money on more ammo and training.
Skill > Gear
beachcommando
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Posted: 1/31/2011 1:26:50 PM
Wilson Combat TTU. You won't be sorry.
Marksman14
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Posted: 1/31/2011 1:44:14 PM
Originally Posted By YaNi05:
Originally Posted By durabo:
fighting trigger should be milspec weight and such.. IMO.


The Magpul Dynamics instructors run milspec trigger groups in their carbines. You can shoot damn fast with a parts kit FCG. I'd spend the money on more ammo and training.
Skill > Gear


Fisher had an S3G at the last class I took with them.

If you want reliability, stick with mil-spec or a variant of it such as the spikes coated trigger, or pick up something from Geiselle.

How many failures have you heard reported about geiselle? I've heard one, that was due to a known metallurgical problem that geiselle put an announcement out about. Thats it. I've heard of failures of virtually every other trigger out there, more than once.
Lakemoor
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Posted: 1/31/2011 2:05:06 PM
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 2:06:37 PM by Lakemoor]
Anybody have experience with this one:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XMTT801B&name=Mega+Arms+Tactical+Trigger&groupid=103

I would think this one would be nice, but I haven't heard anything about it and I don't want to be Mr. Guinea Pig.

edit: Most reliable would be a stock mil spec trigger/hammer but jeez that combo is the sux
fuzzy03cls
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Posted: 1/31/2011 3:26:10 PM
I'm perfectly fine with plain jain stock triggers. They work well for me.
Hipwrguitar
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Posted: 1/31/2011 6:48:46 PM
FYI Both the Geissele SSF and SSA triggers have received the Crane NSWC Safety Certification.
Striker071
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Posted: 1/31/2011 7:01:30 PM
OK. This is what I understand form reading various posts and comments here.

geiselle... great trigger

Timney... great trigger

Wilson TTU great trigger.

On Rainier arms there is a video of the Mega trigger... looks like it works well.

Spikes Enhanced Trigger ... works wonders.

It al depends what you want to pay.

I am going to buy a TTU .... for one Ar... A spikes for another and a Mega for another ... and see
Marksman14
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Posted: 1/31/2011 9:08:02 PM
Originally Posted By Striker071:
OK. This is what I understand form reading various posts and comments here.

geiselle... great trigger

Timney... great trigger

Wilson TTU great trigger.

On Rainier arms there is a video of the Mega trigger... looks like it works well.

Spikes Enhanced Trigger ... works wonders.

It al depends what you want to pay.

I am going to buy a TTU .... for one Ar... A spikes for another and a Mega for another ... and see


Aside from the Mega which I've seen nothing about, the only triggers up there that I haven't seen posts of failures are the geiselle's and the spikes.

IMHO, those are the only "great" triggers that I will consider. Every other one up there has had reports of issues (again aside from the mega, which I'm unfamiliar with).
durabo
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Posted: 1/31/2011 9:43:57 PM
Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Originally Posted By Striker071:
OK. This is what I understand form reading various posts and comments here.

geiselle... great trigger

Timney... great trigger

Wilson TTU great trigger.

On Rainier arms there is a video of the Mega trigger... looks like it works well.

Spikes Enhanced Trigger ... works wonders.

It al depends what you want to pay.

I am going to buy a TTU .... for one Ar... A spikes for another and a Mega for another ... and see


Aside from the Mega which I've seen nothing about, the only triggers up there that I haven't seen posts of failures are the geiselle's and the spikes.

IMHO, those are the only "great" triggers that I will consider. Every other one up there has had reports of issues (again aside from the mega, which I'm unfamiliar with).


In the interest of full disclosure, recently a member here received a spikes battle trigger set, and it was all chunked up and started doubling on him. Then it was replaced with one from spikes that "looked" chunked up too, but he had no problems with... spikes gave him a full refund after a bit of a long period of time (although SHOT was going on and i don't think the member was actually CALLING or emailing anyone frequently about the issues, just posting here)

Seemed to be a QC issue mostly, a couple bad ones slipped out.

That is the ONLY time ive heard anything bad about them, I own one myself and would trust my life to it.
458winmag
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Posted: 1/31/2011 10:33:24 PM
Originally Posted By durabo:
Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Originally Posted By Striker071:
OK. This is what I understand form reading various posts and comments here.

geiselle... great trigger

Timney... great trigger

Wilson TTU great trigger.

On Rainier arms there is a video of the Mega trigger... looks like it works well.

Spikes Enhanced Trigger ... works wonders.

It al depends what you want to pay.

I am going to buy a TTU .... for one Ar... A spikes for another and a Mega for another ... and see


Aside from the Mega which I've seen nothing about, the only triggers up there that I haven't seen posts of failures are the geiselle's and the spikes.

IMHO, those are the only "great" triggers that I will consider. Every other one up there has had reports of issues (again aside from the mega, which I'm unfamiliar with).


In the interest of full disclosure, recently a member here received a spikes battle trigger set, and it was all chunked up and started doubling on him. Then it was replaced with one from spikes that "looked" chunked up too, but he had no problems with... spikes gave him a full refund after a bit of a long period of time (although SHOT was going on and i don't think the member was actually CALLING or emailing anyone frequently about the issues, just posting here)

Seemed to be a QC issue mostly, a couple bad ones slipped out.

That is the ONLY time ive heard anything bad about them, I own one myself and would trust my life to it.


I'll stick with SSA on this type of weapon
2tonic
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Posted: 2/26/2011 2:34:01 AM
Please forgive me for taking so long to get back to this thread, I was researching triggers. Thanks for all the replies.
If one is to believe the marketing on the "drop-in cartridge type" trigger groups ( Wilson, ATC, Timney, et al) one of their big advantages is the ability to retain proper geometry and parts relationship even if your lower is out of spec. This would seem an important feature, at first blush, but if your trigger and hammer pin holes are far enough off to affect operation how would you ever be able to line up the pins to fit through the cartridge trigger?
How often is a quality lower out of spec? Anyone ever have this problem? Severe enough to cause malfunction or doubling?

I ask because the feedback to my original post favors the Spikes or Geiselle SSA component trigger groups, which would be susceptible to this misalignment (if it exists). No mention is made of the ATC Gold (maybe it's too new) and the Wilson and Timney are referred to as having suffered failures.
Some suggest staying with mil-spec components, but I'm dubious. I've clamped down on what seems like a hundred "krunchenticker" mil-spec atrocities and remain un-enthused over their contribution to precision rifle work. Is the Spikes' dramatically better/smoother? I realize that price and reliability are the other two legs of the equation but what are the choices offered there.....spend $300 on a piece of fragile clockwork, or get a "reliable" trigger that feels like one of those springy things for building grip strength. Is there a smooth AR trigger out there that works like a tuned 1911 trigger? That is, consistent, with a super-short reset so, as the sights come back on target, the smallest movement throws another stone?

I'm sorry this missive has become so wordy, but I really think these manufacturers do us a disservice when they market their "greater" product to us without objectively telling us what makes it greater!

So how 'bout it, what does the Spikes do?
WayneG
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Posted: 2/26/2011 10:24:22 AM

Originally Posted By 2tonic:

So how 'bout it, what does the Spikes do?
All I can speak to is my personal experience with it. The Spikes unit was purchased to meet a very specific goal, in that I was building a simple 16" piston fighting carbine, concentrating on combat reliability. With that criteria in mind I know I wanted a "stone-age simple", single stage trigger that provided smooth consistent pull around 5-6 pounds and reliable ignition with surplus ammo. The Spikes does that perfectly, the boron nickle coating on mine provides that smoothness I need, there is no grittiness, almost no creep, and the reset is short. So far I the round count is only about 1K, but the characteristics have remained consistent.

I don't know if this is helpful. This really is my only non-tweaked or match trigger in any of my builds, but if I was looking to build a "fighting" rifle vice a "match" rifle, this trigger would be my first choice.

Caelum, non animum mutant, qui trans mare currunt
-Horatius, "Epistulae"

"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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Stickman
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Posted: 2/26/2011 2:08:14 PM
Originally Posted By 2tonic:
Scrolled through the "Trigger comparison " thread but didn't really find an answer to this question......Who makes the best "combat" trigger for a semi-auto AR?
It would seem a clean breaking trigger with a very short reset for quick follow-up shots (i.e. double or triple taps) as offered by the ATC Gold would be optimum, but the drop-in units from Wilson, Timney, and others hold promise.

I'm interested in your opinions. What would your requirements be for a trigger group to suit this purpose? Single or double stage, pull wght, letoff, etc?



Best in a combat trigger, to me, means most durable. With that, I use nonadjustables to include WC or Geiselle.
Stick
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Mccray
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Posted: 2/26/2011 11:27:17 PM
[Last Edit: 2/26/2011 11:35:37 PM by Mccray]
I asked the same question a week ago and was told the Geiselle S3G(Super 3 Gun) fits all of my criteria(the same as yours). From what I gather It's a non-adjustable hybrid single stage/2stage semi -auto version of their FA combat trigger. They claim it has a short smooth pull and ultra fast reset for follow ups.

"A description of the S3G pull:
1. The shooter starts pulling the trigger as his sights become aligned on target.
2. At about 3.5 lbs., the trigger starts to move back smoothly, like it’s on ball bearings.
3. After the trigger moves a short distance, the weapon discharges. Nothing precedes the discharge: no second stage stop, no grittiness, no stacking of the trigger pull weight as the hammer is cammed down like on a stock AR15 trigger. The trigger finger feels a sensation of walking along a perfectly flat, glassy-smooth plateau that suddenly drops away.
4. After a short overtravel, the trigger is quickly reset when the shooter slightly relaxes his trigger finger and the next shot is ready to be fired without having to go back to the beginning of the trigger pull cycle. "

Just thought I would share these quotes from some reviews I've read.

"Super 3 Gun trigger has a super short trigger pull and a short reset so that rounds can be sent downrange as quickly as possible while still maintaining superb accuracy"

field tests have shown that the S3G can routinely and accurately deliver up to twelve shots on target in an amazing 1.6-1.9 seconds.


I would look into it if I were you... I'm gonna get one.
VictorUnit
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Posted: 2/27/2011 12:36:23 AM
ar gold?
Mccray
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Posted: 2/27/2011 9:43:22 AM
[Last Edit: 2/27/2011 9:43:44 AM by Mccray]
Originally Posted By VictorUnit:
ar gold?


yeah but do the have one that isn't "gold"?
corymc
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Posted: 3/1/2011 9:41:44 AM

Originally Posted By Mccray:
I asked the same question a week ago and was told the Geiselle S3G(Super 3 Gun) fits all of my criteria(the same as yours). From what I gather It's a non-adjustable hybrid single stage/2stage semi -auto version of their FA combat trigger. They claim it has a short smooth pull and ultra fast reset for follow ups.

"A description of the S3G pull:
1. The shooter starts pulling the trigger as his sights become aligned on target.
2. At about 3.5 lbs., the trigger starts to move back smoothly, like it’s on ball bearings.
3. After the trigger moves a short distance, the weapon discharges. Nothing precedes the discharge: no second stage stop, no grittiness, no stacking of the trigger pull weight as the hammer is cammed down like on a stock AR15 trigger. The trigger finger feels a sensation of walking along a perfectly flat, glassy-smooth plateau that suddenly drops away.
4. After a short overtravel, the trigger is quickly reset when the shooter slightly relaxes his trigger finger and the next shot is ready to be fired without having to go back to the beginning of the trigger pull cycle. "

Just thought I would share these quotes from some reviews I've read.

"Super 3 Gun trigger has a super short trigger pull and a short reset so that rounds can be sent downrange as quickly as possible while still maintaining superb accuracy"

field tests have shown that the S3G can routinely and accurately deliver up to twelve shots on target in an amazing 1.6-1.9 seconds.


I would look into it if I were you... I'm gonna get one.
I have one of these and its great took it to the my local gun shop and every one who worked there couldn't believe how sweet the pull was. Some of them say its one of the best AR triggers they have felt. Mine broke at 3#. I would try one of these and if you don't like I'm sure you can sell it.

CTbuilder1
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Posted: 3/1/2011 5:24:08 PM
Does Geiselle make a non adjustable single stage? I have no use for 2 stages or any type of adjustment in a trigger.
Mccray
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Posted: 3/1/2011 8:06:47 PM
read up..the one that was just mentioned, the S3G is non adjustable and doesnt have a second stage "stop"
CTbuilder1
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Posted: 3/1/2011 8:14:20 PM
Originally Posted By Mccray:
read up..the one that was just mentioned, the S3G is non adjustable and doesnt have a second stage "stop"


Is a trigger designed for game gunning suitable for a fighting gun?
Stickman
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Posted: 3/1/2011 8:29:34 PM
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By Mccray:
read up..the one that was just mentioned, the S3G is non adjustable and doesnt have a second stage "stop"


Is a trigger designed for game gunning suitable for a fighting gun?


It depends on who you ask, and what your preferences are.
Stick
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CTbuilder1
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Posted: 3/1/2011 8:53:38 PM
Originally Posted By Stickman:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By Mccray:
read up..the one that was just mentioned, the S3G is non adjustable and doesnt have a second stage "stop"


Is a trigger designed for game gunning suitable for a fighting gun?


It depends on who you ask, and what your preferences are.


You've been having good luck with the Wilson TTU, right?
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