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Basic
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Posted: 9/26/2010 4:52:34 PM EST
I have been looking at different bolt carries and seen some of them that come with specialized coatings. I have been trying to figure out if they are really worth it or if they are just a marketing ploy.

these are what I am talking about:
Hard Chrome $175
nickel boron $225
MPI tested DD $129
ION Bond $199
Exo coated $250


so has anyone tried any of these? are any of these worth it?

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Link Posted: 9/26/2010 5:16:59 PM EST
I have a Spikes Tactical nickel boron and a BCM ion bond bolt carrier groups. Both run fine, are very easy to clean and run with no lube, but I put a slight amount of Mil-tec on both.

My .02

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Link Posted: 9/26/2010 5:37:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Talyn:
I have a Spikes Tactical nickel boron and a BCM ion bond bolt carrier groups. Both run fine, are very easy to clean and run with no lube, but I put a slight amount of Mil-tec on both.

My .02


but are they any better than just say a plain cheap typical milspec?

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Link Posted: 9/26/2010 5:45:00 PM EST
Good question I have been wondering the same as I start a precision build.
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Link Posted: 9/26/2010 5:47:27 PM EST
If you have a BCG already and it's in good condition, you may want to consider sending to ROBAR to have Np3 coated (cheaper than buying a new one already coated - just a suggestion). This is what I did for quite a few of mine, including a couple of my .22 conversions. Every once in a while you catch them running a special. We as a family shoot together a lot, and when it comes to cleaning the coating makes a big difference for me. Cycling is so smooth as well. For me, IMHO it was worth it.

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Link Posted: 9/26/2010 5:48:14 PM EST
To me yes. I first bought an IonBond BCG to just try it out and found that not only did it cleanup quick but it seemed to stay slicker longer when I was shooting suppressed. After a number of outings with the same results I had all my BCGs IonBond coated.

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Link Posted: 9/26/2010 10:15:58 PM EST
I have several Ion Bond coated Young's carriers, both FA and NM; definitely worth it for me, since I shoot suppressed the vast majority of the time.
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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 3:05:21 AM EST
same here. if you ever shoot suppressed, they're worth their weight in gold. i prefer the spikes NiB. i can literally clean it with a damp cloth.
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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 6:46:16 AM EST
Unless you have a specialized setup I don't see the need. A standard mil spec BCG has worked fine for years & years of service.

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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 7:42:27 AM EST
Has anyone ever thought about having their BCG cryo treated? Seems like it would be a good candidate for it.

An explanation of the process (taken from wikipedia):

A cryogenic treatment is the process of reducing the temperature of components over an extended period of time to extreme cold levels, usually slightly below −190 °C (−310.0 °F), which is why it is called a cryogenic process. Liquid nitrogen (LN2) is a common fluid for the process being relatively inexpensive and making up more than 70% of our atmosphere.

As the LN2 boils off from liquid to gas at around −195 °C (−319.0 °F), the components in its proximity are also cooled. The process is controlled by microprocessors so that thermal shock is not generated at the same time resulting in damage to components. Before these microprocessors were created, people would dip parts in liquid nitrogen and virtually turn them to brittle instantaneously.

As the material cools its molecular structure is drawn together through contraction and stress and dislocation brought about by production methods is removed or reduced. Both Einstein and Bose of Germany realized why cryogenic treatment was able to remove residual stresses. Cryogenic treatment removes heat from an object which then allows the object to enter its most relaxed state or a condition with the least amount of kinetic energy. After heat treatment, steels still have a certain percentage of retained austenite which can be transformed into martensite via cryogenic treatment. Other effects are the production of martensite and the precipitation of Eta type carbides. All metals including copper and aluminum, not just steel benefit from the residual stress relief that cryogenic treatment promotes.[1]

The process has a wide range of applications from industrial tooling to improvement of musical signal transmission. Some of the benefits of cryogenic treatment include longer part life, less failure due to cracking, improved thermal properties, better electrical properties including less electrical resistance, reduced coefficient of friction, less creep and walk, improved flatness, and easier machining.

It has been found and proved that cryogenic treatment improves wear resistance of many alloy steels to a great extent.

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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 8:53:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By fuzzy03cls:
Unless you have a specialized setup I don't see the need. A standard mil spec BCG has worked fine for years & years of service.


That's true, but if you could have a bolt and carrier that has inherently less friction, and cleans more easily, why wouldn't you?

Think in particular about the lugs and their interface with the barrel extension.

Why isn't an AR firing pin covered with phosphate?

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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 10:50:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Accuser:
To me yes. I first bought an IonBond BCG to just try it out and found that not only did it cleanup quick but it seemed to stay slicker longer when I was shooting suppressed. After a number of outings with the same results I had all my BCGs IonBond coated.


Sorry to hijack, but who can you send BCGs to and have them IonBond(ed?)


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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 11:12:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By slipjett:
Originally Posted By The_Accuser:
To me yes. I first bought an IonBond BCG to just try it out and found that not only did it cleanup quick but it seemed to stay slicker longer when I was shooting suppressed. After a number of outings with the same results I had all my BCGs IonBond coated.


Sorry to hijack, but who can you send BCGs to and have them IonBond(ed?)



I had Springer Precision do the IonBond coating on all my BCGs.

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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 11:17:25 AM EST
Depends on what your going do with the gun.

According to The Pat Rogers and his cult of worshipers you better buy a Colt. Everything else is not "Tier one" and your gun will fail. We all know if your gun was not forged by Soron in the fires on Mount Doom following the strict guidelines of the TDP it aint worth crap.
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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 1:10:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By GutWrench:
Depends on what your going do with the gun.

According to The Pat Rogers and his cult of worshipers you better buy a Colt. Everything else is not "Tier one" and your gun will fail. We all know if your gun was not forged by Soron in the fires on Mount Doom following the strict guidelines of the TDP it aint worth crap.



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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 1:42:45 PM EST
That's true, but if you could have a bolt and carrier that has inherently less friction, and cleans more easily, why wouldn't you?


My thoughts exactly! I see the BCG as the Heart of my system.

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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 1:51:32 PM EST
Both me and my brother got Young's M16 chrome bolts. I will never buy a regular one. I can shoots hundreds of rounds, and clean t off with one napkin and do it less then 2 minutes without any kind of solvent or oil.

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Link Posted: 9/27/2010 3:47:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By cincyar:
Originally Posted By Talyn:
I have a Spikes Tactical nickel boron and a BCM ion bond bolt carrier groups. Both run fine, are very easy to clean and run with no lube, but I put a slight amount of Mil-tec on both.

My .02


but are they any better than just say a plain cheap typical milspec?


Based on what I said already,
are very easy to clean and run with no lube
, YES.


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Link Posted: 9/28/2010 8:21:38 AM EST
Worth it to you? I dunno. To me? Not worth it.
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Link Posted: 10/9/2010 7:47:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By TN_Thunder:
Has anyone ever thought about having their BCG cryo treated? Seems like it would be a good candidate for it.


It has been found and proved that cryogenic treatment improves wear resistance of many alloy steels to a great extent.


I would LOVE to have a bolt and cam pin done. I would imagine that carbon would not stick as bad to the tail of the bolt if it was treated. NONE of my Cryo barrels foul as bad as the non treated barrels do given the same number of rounds through each...

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Link Posted: 10/9/2010 9:44:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2010 9:44:30 AM EST by liaisons]
Simply put - these coatings are nice to have, but it's definitely not a necessity.

Originally Posted By GutWrench:
Depends on what your going do with the gun.

According to The Pat Rogers and his cult of worshipers you better buy a Colt. Everything else is not "Tier one" and your gun will fail. We all know if your gun was not forged by Soron in the fires on Mount Doom following the strict guidelines of the TDP it aint worth crap.


I'm pretty sure Pat openly endorses BCM and other manufacturers... not just Colt.

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Link Posted: 10/9/2010 10:29:25 AM EST
The only thing I can think of is that changing the metallurgical properties (specifically surface hardness) of one component in a system (BCG) without changing the metallurgical properties of the other component (Upper receiver) will cause undue wear on the softer part. In an uncoated BCG/anodized upper the surface of the anodized aluminum is harder than the surface of the uncoated BCG which keeps all wear occurring only on the BCG. Change the hardness of the BCG to harder than the surface of the anodized aluminum and you will notice wear through the anodizing and into the aluminum of the upper.
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Link Posted: 10/10/2010 5:38:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Worth it to you? I dunno. To me? Not worth it.



Same here. I would rather coat it myself with Mobil 1 after I clean it.

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Link Posted: 10/10/2010 6:12:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2010 6:14:03 AM EST by InfiniteGrim]
For now on I will be buying chrome.


Me and my brother bought Young's M16 chrome BCGs for $155 shipped. Mine is in my SPR and his is in his new spike's 16" carbine.

Mine has run 100% with reloads and his has been 100% with steel ammo.

Plus its rediculously easy to clean.





After 60 seconds and only a napkin....................












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Link Posted: 10/11/2010 3:59:11 AM EST
thanks for the input so far.

so my next question is, is it worth the $225 for the spike's NiB or just get the young's for $155?

is there any differences in the coatings to justify another $70?

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Link Posted: 10/11/2010 4:10:47 AM EST
Youngs are great.

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Link Posted: 10/11/2010 4:56:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By gajeep94yj:
thanks for the input so far.

so my next question is, is it worth the $225 for the spike's NiB or just get the young's for $155?

is there any differences in the coatings to justify another $70?


NO

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Link Posted: 10/11/2010 11:29:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2010 11:38:51 AM EST by REARSPROCKET]
I have three Young Man. Semi BCGs, his semi versions have more metal in the tail section than most others do. Two of them are black phos in Carb.s and one is a N/M chrome in my paper punching Hbar. You can't go wrong with either chromed or not with Young BCGs, they are top shelf chromed or not. The chromed BCGs are easier to clean for sure, I didn't use them in my carbs because I like the all black tac look and dont mind a little more cleaning

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Link Posted: 10/11/2010 11:40:58 AM EST
I have a NP3 treated BCG from Robar and its the cat's meow. Carbon literally rubs off with a paper towel and its slick to the touch.
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Link Posted: 10/13/2010 5:37:38 AM EST
I have 2 of the NiB coated ones... one stock Fail-Zero one and one LMT that was sent off for the coating.

both are amazing. and ill never use anything else.

the EXO coating has been tested by the DoD and proven superior, and to me an extra 70-100 is COMPLETELY worth it.

http://www.failzero.com/

check out the test reports.

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Link Posted: 10/20/2010 4:21:34 PM EST
well I bought a Spike's NiB BCG. we shall see how it goes!

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Link Posted: 10/20/2010 5:02:56 PM EST
I checked the springer site i couldnt how much it costs to do a BCG

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Link Posted: 10/20/2010 6:19:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ar-15TechGuy:
Originally Posted By TN_Thunder:
Has anyone ever thought about having their BCG cryo treated? Seems like it would be a good candidate for it.


It has been found and proved that cryogenic treatment improves wear resistance of many alloy steels to a great extent.


I would LOVE to have a bolt and cam pin done. I would imagine that carbon would not stick as bad to the tail of the bolt if it was treated. NONE of my Cryo barrels foul as bad as the non treated barrels do given the same number of rounds through each...


I don't see how changing the microsctructure of a small percent of the metal (retained austenite) would affect the adherence of carbon.

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Link Posted: 10/24/2010 1:26:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
For now on I will be buying chrome.


Me and my brother bought Young's M16 chrome BCGs for $155 shipped. Mine is in my SPR and his is in his new spike's 16" carbine.

Mine has run 100% with reloads and his has been 100% with steel ammo.

Plus its rediculously easy to clean.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3134/p1100530.jpg

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9832/p1100534f.jpg

After 60 seconds and only a napkin....................


http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/2649/p1100536.jpg



This is the benefit of some of the coating available !! I use Youngs hard chrome BCGs and they are easy as hell to clean and dont require much oil if any. That being said the nickle boron coated parts clean even easier and require virtually no lubrication !! The friction of the hard chrome or NiB compared to parkerizing is night and day. If you want a BCG that is easier to clean has much less friction and doesnt require much lube then go with HC or NiB, if this doesnt really matter to you go with mil spec !

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Link Posted: 10/24/2010 1:29:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By gajeep94yj:
well I bought a Spike's NiB BCG. we shall see how it goes!



Sorry I made my previous post before I read the second page LOL...

Your really going to like that NiB coated BCG !! They look cool too !!

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Link Posted: 10/25/2010 5:29:02 PM EST
I could not find the prices either. I emailed Springer and they sent me a AR price list. $65 for a BCG. I have a Bravo Co. BCG with ion bond and 2 others without. I am in the process of sending them 2 AR-15 BCG's, 1 AR-10 BCG and a stainless barrel. I have not tried any other finishes but the ion bond is GTG IMHO. Had a buddy Krylon his pistol that had ion bond. He didn't like the way the do it yourself paint job turned out and stripped the Krylon off with a SS brush in his cordless drill. The ion bond on the slide was unharmed, not a scratch.

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