Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Site Notices
Basic
  • Member
  • Oct 2008
  • USA CA, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Oct 2008
  • USA CA, USA
  • Posts: 277
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
Posted: 6/25/2010 4:15:29 PM EST
So I'm looking for the best FF handguard for my SHTF/beater rifle. I want to attach it to a BCM Middy and I plan on running it hard. Im leaning towards the Vltor CASV-EL mostly due to the looks and ease of assembly but I've heard some things about the bottom section coming loose over time. I'm also thinking about the DD Omega rail.

Thoughts?
can't see my AK
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Dec 2005
  • USA MI, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Dec 2005
  • USA MI, USA
  • Posts: 2550
  • Feedback: 100% (124)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 4:20:12 PM EST
I'd vote LaRue.
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2006
  • USA ND, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2006
  • USA ND, USA
  • Posts: 913
  • Feedback: 100% (8)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 4:27:21 PM EST
Do you want a full rail? Tubular type? Upgradable where you can add rails as you need them(like the CASV?) I've got a PRI that works great.
Basic
  • Member
  • Mar 2009
  • USA WA, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Mar 2009
  • USA WA, USA
  • Posts: 1213
  • Feedback: 100% (5)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 4:34:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/25/2010 4:35:38 PM EST by Market_Garden]
Of the choices you mentioned, I'd take the Omega hands down over the CASV, if for no other reason than it's 5.5 ounces lighter. The Omega has an excellent reputation as well.

My favorite handguard though is the JP/VTAC Modular piece. It doesn't look tacticool but it's solid, light, comfortable, and gives you tons of options for mounting stuff.
Basic
  • Member
  • May 2010
  • USA PA, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • May 2010
  • USA PA, USA
  • Posts: 36
  • Feedback: 100% (8)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 4:43:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By CJFirefly:
I'd vote LaRue.


+1
who flung poo?
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2009
  • USA MI, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2009
  • USA MI, USA
  • Posts: 461
  • Feedback: 100% (8)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 4:49:18 PM EST
DD omega
If the ocean was whiskey, and I was a duck, Id swim to the bottom and never come up.
Basic
  • Member
  • Oct 2008
  • USA CA, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Oct 2008
  • USA CA, USA
  • Posts: 278
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 5:00:18 PM EST
Well then it looks like the DD Omega is the way for me to go. I do like the way the casv-el looks but 5.5 ounces is a pretty big difference.

Does anyone have any pics of their DD Omega thats been beat to hell? Or even just on a painted rifle?

Thanks for the info
Basic
  • Member
  • Feb 2008
  • USA PA, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Feb 2008
  • USA PA, USA
  • Posts: 252
  • Feedback: 100% (6)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 5:30:38 PM EST
I'm partial to LaRue rails
Ammunition disposal - free of charge!
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2004
  • USA AZ, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2004
  • USA AZ, USA
Military
  • Posts: 28834
  • Feedback: 100% (81)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 6:24:52 PM EST
I don't think the Omega is the very best rail out there for "SHTF", but it will definitely take a lot of abuse. I would prefer the Lite rail.

Here is my BCM 14.5" ML with a 9" Omega.




What is your budget, and what do you want to do with the rifle? These are the questions you must answer before purchasing anything.

http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/images
Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Dec 2009
  • USA LA, USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Dec 2009
  • USA LA, USA
  • Posts: 780
  • Feedback: 100% (33)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 6:42:26 PM EST
My small hands and wallet prefer the YHM Smooth Tubes. The short forward rails are all I need for lights and gadgets. Not too heavy either.
Huge Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Aug 2007
  • USA TN, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Aug 2007
  • USA TN, USA
  • Posts: 1027
  • Feedback: 100% (57)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 6:54:09 PM EST
DD or LaRue
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2009
  • USA MO, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2009
  • USA MO, USA
  • Posts: 859
  • Feedback: 100% (8)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 6:58:05 PM EST
Reliability, durability, simplicity, and weight......factor in your needs/criteria and make your choice.

My next builds will have an MOE handguard, then another with a lightweight handguard where rail space is continuous on the top and rail peices can be added to the bottom and sides.
AR-15 owner since 1971
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2005
  • USA NV, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2005
  • USA NV, USA
  • Posts: 6690
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 8:58:09 PM EST
I've been using my LaRue 9.0 for over four years now and it is still running fine, it even fell on the floor once sideways while leaning on a wall without any damage.

Most of the FF handguard problem is that it could get loose from its mounting when used in the extreme conditions, so the proper rail design that would survive it would be the ones with the locking system like the LaRue, DD Lite, and DD RIS II (also other brands with similar feature).

If it doesn't have these locking feature even the use of blue Loctite on the mounting rings and mounting fasteners don't usually work according to past threads here in the archives that I've seen over several years.


YMMV

AR3
KJB
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jan 2004
  • USA USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jan 2004
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 2898
  • Feedback: 100% (24)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/25/2010 10:36:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/25/2010 10:36:54 PM EST by KJB]
DD M4A1 RIS II FSP, M4a1 RIS II or Lite in that order.
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jan 2006
  • USA IN, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jan 2006
  • USA IN, USA
  • Posts: 6624
  • Feedback: 100% (65)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/26/2010 3:22:51 AM EST
DD Lite rail or LaRue.
"Better to die for something than live for nothing"
Basic
  • Member
  • Dec 2007
  • USA IN, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Dec 2007
  • USA IN, USA
  • Posts: 2414
  • Feedback: 100% (3)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/26/2010 4:05:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By Market_Garden:
Of the choices you mentioned, I'd take the Omega hands down over the CASV, if for no other reason than it's 5.5 ounces lighter. The Omega has an excellent reputation as well.

My favorite handguard though is the JP/VTAC Modular piece. It doesn't look tacticool but it's solid, light, comfortable, and gives you tons of options for mounting stuff.


I have the Troy Extreme 13" and I love it. My hands aren't huge and I can get an excellent grip on them. Plus without the rails it is only 11.5 ounces. The long sight radius is nice too.
Grendel FTW
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Dec 2002
  • USA FL, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Dec 2002
  • USA FL, USA
  • Posts: 10335
  • Feedback: 100% (18)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/26/2010 4:26:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By gee223:
Originally Posted By Market_Garden:
Of the choices you mentioned, I'd take the Omega hands down over the CASV, if for no other reason than it's 5.5 ounces lighter. The Omega has an excellent reputation as well.

My favorite handguard though is the JP/VTAC Modular piece. It doesn't look tacticool but it's solid, light, comfortable, and gives you tons of options for mounting stuff.


I have the Troy Extreme 13" and I love it. My hands aren't huge and I can get an excellent grip on them. Plus without the rails it is only 11.5 ounces. The long sight radius is nice too.


I just got my first Troy Extreme TRX Battle Rail, and I love it. The lockup design is so much better than my YHM rails that I'm probable going to make the change on my other AR's soon.
"The blood of innocent whales, mixed with the tears of ignorant hippies."
Can you hear me now?
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2002
  • USA NY, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2002
  • USA NY, USA
  • Posts: 3372
  • Feedback: 100% (51)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/26/2010 4:31:22 AM EST
I think the OP is looking for a 2 piece FF rail so he doesn't have to remove the FSB and muzzle device. That limits his options considerably. I would lean toward the DD Omega or Troy 2 piece. If I had to bet my life on the rail in a SHTF event I would much prefer Larue or DD Lite.
"Freedom through Victory"

"Those who can ... do
Those who can't ... become site staff"
Basic
  • Member
  • May 2006
  • USA CO, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • May 2006
  • USA CO, USA
  • Posts: 517
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/26/2010 5:15:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/26/2010 5:15:36 AM EST by nomondaydreams]
I dont really think SHTF has anything to do with it. I think it will be what ever is most comfortable for you. Ive got a surefire quad rail and an 11in DD, both setup the same. love em both TBH.
Gunny
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Apr 2007
  • USA USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Apr 2007
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 7662
  • Feedback: 100% (56)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/26/2010 5:33:25 AM EST
DD Lite or RIS II.
"You can take the man out of the Marine Corps but you can never take the Marine Corps out of the man"

"If I wanted your opinion I would give it to you" - Gunny

Jesus is my lord&savior.
Basic
  • Member
  • Oct 2008
  • USA CA, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Oct 2008
  • USA CA, USA
  • Posts: 279
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/26/2010 7:40:11 AM EST
Thanks everyone!

So what makes the DD Lite better than the Omega? And is there any reason the Larue rail would be better than the DD Lite?

I was hoping to do without cutting off my D-ring but if it gets me a more reliable rail then I'll do it.
Can you hear me now?
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2002
  • USA NY, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2002
  • USA NY, USA
  • Posts: 3373
  • Feedback: 100% (51)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/26/2010 10:58:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:
Thanks everyone!

So what makes the DD Lite better than the Omega? And is there any reason the Larue rail would be better than the DD Lite?

I was hoping to do without cutting off my D-ring but if it gets me a more reliable rail then I'll do it.


More secure attachment, they both use special barrel nuts that attach to the rail via bolts and/or keepers. The Omega rail clamps around the existing barrel nut and uses set screws to tighten the whole affair up. It is a pretty secure arrangement but nowhere near as substantial an attachment point as the DD lite or Larue rails.

Note: In order to install the Larue or DD rails (other than the Omega) you have to remove the front sight base and flash hider as well as the stock barrel nut and delta ring assembly. You are thinking of the Midwest Industries and Troy 2 piece rails with regard to cutting off the delta ring.

Hope this helps!
"Freedom through Victory"

"Those who can ... do
Those who can't ... become site staff"
God Fearing Polish Infidel
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2006
  • USA USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2006
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 2038
  • Feedback: 100% (5)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/26/2010 11:20:14 AM EST
Rail type
-Daniel Defense
-LaRue

Tube
-PRI
"Some people live an entire lifetime and wonder if they have ever made a difference in the world, but the Marines don't have that problem." - Ronald Reagan
Basic
  • Member
  • Oct 2008
  • USA CA, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Oct 2008
  • USA CA, USA
  • Posts: 280
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/26/2010 4:52:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bushman_269:
Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:
Thanks everyone!

So what makes the DD Lite better than the Omega? And is there any reason the Larue rail would be better than the DD Lite?

I was hoping to do without cutting off my D-ring but if it gets me a more reliable rail then I'll do it.


More secure attachment, they both use special barrel nuts that attach to the rail via bolts and/or keepers. The Omega rail clamps around the existing barrel nut and uses set screws to tighten the whole affair up. It is a pretty secure arrangement but nowhere near as substantial an attachment point as the DD lite or Larue rails.

Note: In order to install the Larue or DD rails (other than the Omega) you have to remove the front sight base and flash hider as well as the stock barrel nut and delta ring assembly. You are thinking of the Midwest Industries and Troy 2 piece rails with regard to cutting off the delta ring.

Hope this helps!


Thanks

Is removing the front sight base, flash hider, and the stock barrel nut a hard thing to do? As in should I plan to let a gun smith do it?
can't see my AK
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Dec 2005
  • USA MI, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Dec 2005
  • USA MI, USA
  • Posts: 2551
  • Feedback: 100% (124)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/26/2010 6:31:39 PM EST
It isn't particularly hard to do but you have to have the proper tools, as in a vice, armorer's wrench, upper receiver block, and a set of punches. If you are not a "do it yourselfer" then you can pay a smith to do it (ADCO is who I'd recommend). If you are a "do it yourselfer" then buy the tools with the money you would save from paying someone else.
AR-15 owner since 1971
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2005
  • USA NV, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2005
  • USA NV, USA
  • Posts: 6693
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/26/2010 7:03:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By LRB_M1A:

Is removing the front sight base, flash hider, and the stock barrel nut a hard thing to do? As in should I plan to let a gun smith do it?


Take a look at these instructions, if you have the proper tools and think you could do it yourself, it's not too hard, I did it myself when I installed my LaRue rails following these same instructions.

The only problem with having tools and having done it is that your AR will multiply.

If it's too much hassle, I agree let someone else do it and just send it to ADCO.


Assemble Your Lower, Upper, Free Float, Trigger, Gas Block - Step by Step Instructions - tacked thread link


YMMV

AR3
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2006
  • USA NV, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2006
  • USA NV, USA
  • Posts: 3828
  • Feedback: 100% (3)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/29/2010 7:48:24 AM EST
Tubular with all the gripping surface you could want, and slightly narrower than most... With all the rail surface a squad could ever need. Blackheart International is what I run with.

can't see my AK
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Dec 2005
  • USA MI, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Dec 2005
  • USA MI, USA
  • Posts: 2552
  • Feedback: 100% (124)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/29/2010 1:01:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By 308Sako:
Tubular with all the gripping surface you could want, and slightly narrower than most... With all the rail surface a squad could ever need. Blackheart International is what I run with.

http://www.bhigear.com/images/Handguard-Closeup.jpg


That looks just like the rail from Apex Machine.
Infected with BRD !
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Mar 2008
  • USA KY, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Mar 2008
  • USA KY, USA
  • Posts: 648
  • Feedback: 100% (57)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/29/2010 4:18:27 PM EST
DD Lite FTW !
True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made. Franklin D. Roosevelt (1882-1945)
Newbie
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2007
  • USA USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2007
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 812
  • Feedback: 100% (45)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/29/2010 5:53:32 PM EST
What prevents the DD Lite and Omega from shifting under torque, besides friction and pressure? If I recall, the LaRue was designed with some means of countering rotation but my memory may be incorrect.
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2006
  • USA NV, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jan 2006
  • USA NV, USA
  • Posts: 3830
  • Feedback: 100% (3)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/29/2010 6:46:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By CJFirefly:
Originally Posted By 308Sako:
Tubular with all the gripping surface you could want, and slightly narrower than most... With all the rail surface a squad could ever need. Blackheart International is what I run with.

http://www.bhigear.com/images/Handguard-Closeup.jpg


That looks just like the rail from Apex Machine.

It sure does, thanks for that bit of information


Basic
  • Member
  • Aug 2004
  • USA MI, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Aug 2004
  • USA MI, USA
  • Posts: 12916
  • Feedback: 100% (5)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 6/30/2010 12:23:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/30/2010 12:24:29 AM EST by metroplex]

Originally Posted By YoungPatriot:
What prevents the DD Lite and Omega from shifting under torque, besides friction and pressure? If I recall, the LaRue was designed with some means of countering rotation but my memory may be incorrect.

The set screws on the Omega/Omega X chew into the barrel nut at 4 spots. The DD Lite appears to clamp together on the barrel nut applying compression at the fore and aft of the nut.

If they gave a free barrel nut wrench and got the name "Daniel Defense" off the handguard (call it DD or something), I'd buy the DD Lite.
Top