Very Nice write up.

Originally Posted By bigbore: Originally Posted By septic-tank13: Geissele -DMR What can I say? Bill and Amy build a super duper unit. I had heard many stories about the Geissele, but never used one myself to any length. I dropped this unit in and it needed no adjustment. Follow the directions and adjust the trigger. They ALL need adjusted. It may work fine, but you do NOT have the correct sear engagement.

you are right.

i just got a copy of the rev. 5 directions for installation and adjustment from Bill Geissele. i don't remember doing the sear, overtravel, and final adjustments. although i installed and adjusted many triggers i hadn't used prior, i'm pretty sure i'd have remembered it if i did. thus, i went back through and adjusted everything according to the instructions. i kept track of the turns or partial turns of each screw and as luck would have it i basically ended up where i started. in this case it worked fine, but i think the best thing to do it consider my case as an example of what NOT to do. always follow the instructions to the "T"...

bigbore,

thanks for calling me out on that.

-michael

I had a new gen II Chip McCormick trigger group and I didn't like it. The company also doidn't answer my emails requesting feedback/info. Guess they don't like it when you're a customer that doesn't like their product. I don't recommend their product.

Originally Posted By DevL: If I could suggest adding something to just weights. Measure the actual length of pull and reset for the triggers. If you tune the Geissele to minimum over travel it is MUCH shorter than any other 2 stage I have tried and allows for rapid shots to feel like a single stage trigger. If other triggers can perform this same trick I would like to know. The length of pull and reset for a factory single stage for reference would be nice to know as well.

the JP, Alexander Arms, as well as one other i haven't tested all can be adjusted that way.

also, there are a couple other ways to achieve that goal. you can use a lower with a like the Superior Arms unit that allows for set screw to be adjusted up underneath the trigger tail under the safety selector. or you can buy a grip screw that has been hollowed out that contains a set screw. both can be perceived as potential issues if the screw backs out or in. however, no more potential than the triggers that are adjustable by screws if you look at it that way.

food for thought.

pics of some SA lowers and the two screw holes below:

i've got information that will be coming. i've added some new triggers as a follow up to this and select fire...



it'll take me a bit of time to complete, but stay tuned...

Mr SepticTank, sir . . . a question if I may . .

The Accuracy Speaks trigger you tested. Was it the small pin model - or, the large pin one?

I found the large one on closeout, for $157.33. The small pin model is $229.99.

That just barely makes the smaller one affordable.

Do you know if there are any functional differences?

Thanks!

Originally Posted By septic-tank13: Originally Posted By Former11BRAVO: Mr SepticTank, sir . . . a question if I may . . The Accuracy Speaks trigger you tested. Was it the small pin model - or, the large pin one? I found the large one on closeout, for $157.33. The small pin model is $229.99. That just barely makes the smaller one affordable. Do you know if there are any functional differences? Thanks! small pin. all were small pin with a single exception: the CMC flat two stage was used in a colt CAR i had. no functional differences i'm aware of at all. not sure what you're getting at... if you already have a small pin receiver, you could drill for large pins, but the other way around doesn't work so hot...

Oh! It's the pin size of the receiver that's referencing! Okay!

Ha! Sorry! I've never torn out a trigger assembly - not even when I carried one everyday! LOL At least, not that I remember . . .

I'll check it out. Thanks!

ETA: The sale is at Midway USA. Do you think that's the reason they're closing out the larger pin ones? Kinda' strange they even made 'em, if they're as old & rare as you say. You know?

Makes me wonder if that's truly the only difference. Not doubting you, though! Just, kinda' thinking out loud . . .

Any thoughts?

Gotcha'.

Thanks again. And, please, keep up the good work. Excellent write-up.

Originally Posted By Horseman: Which of the listed triggers needed or had an adjustment? I'm putting together something of a practical rifle project, and while I want something crisp and glassy, I'm not sure I'd like to have extra complexity of set screws or whatnot... So, what's involved in adjusting the ones that need adjusting, while I'm on the subject?

go to each of the supplied sites and check through the manufacturers descriptions. some from various makers have both adjustable and non-adjustable triggers.

some are pretty easy, and some a bit tougher, but it depends on your skill and familiarity primarily. in order to get the glass rod you speak of an adjustable trigger is a good way to go. if you're uncertain of your ability there is no shame in having a good smith set it up for you. safety first...

for what you describe the JP component, Geissele, and the AA are adjustables that would work well. in a non unit the accuracy speaks would be a great way to go IMO...

FWIW...

Originally Posted By Horseman: Originally Posted By septic-tank13: for what you describe the JP component, Geissele, and the AA are adjustables that would work well. in a non unit the accuracy speaks would be a great way to go IMO... Aha, thanks! So, with an adjustable, is it something that has to be re-examined every so often, or is it a matter of setting it and forgetting it? I was actually looking at the picture on the Geissele, and trying to decipher the Accuracy Speaks website enough to look at one of those. I couldn't tell how the adjustment was done on the Geissele... though there was one of them in the pictures list that was adjusted by setting the spring to hook on various different spring hooks. That would be fine -- I just try to avoid set screws when I can! :) Edit to add: The spring-hook model I was mentioning was the Armalite one. That type would be kosher for my comfort level in adjustability.

wear is the typical issue you have in the case of an AR trigger. however, all those i listed are surface hardened and some through hardened. they are extremely tough. unless you burn through a 20K+ rounds you may not need an adjustment. however, your experience could be at many less depending on many things most of which are up to you, the lower you put them in, and circumstances beyond your control. if you're worried about the screws coming out, i wouldn't be. in the case of the AA unit, Bill provides green loctite (bearing mount)... you WILL NOT have a worry in terms of them backing out... however, depending on just how good you are when you adjust it, you may need to make a change at some point down the road.

if you want a nice crisp trigger and are worried about doing the labor and installation correctly, many of the drop in units are super for this. again, the accuracy speaks would be super IMO. if you opted for a drop in, the CMC might be the way to go as there are no screws at all.

hope this helps.

-michael

Originally Posted By Horseman: Originally Posted By septic-tank13: hope this helps. -michael Yes, very much! One question about the loctite though... do I need to be careful with solvents? For example, if I decide to clean out gunk (ie from shooting converted to .22LR) with brake cleaner or gun scrubber, will that dissolve it?

depends on which loctite you buy. i prefer permatex brand loctite as i've always had consistency with good luck with it. there are others of course, but i've had average experiences with them when using them for larger hardware in another field, so i skip them now specifically...

purple is about as pooch a loctite as you can get. the blue is the next step up and serves pretty well on things like ring and base screws for optics, AR15 grip screws, etc. i used red on optics as well provided the fasteners are torx or something of that nature. many folks don't, but i have no issue with it. green is literally bearing mount material and shouldn't be used unless you intend on keep something there permanently.

for most gun purposes a bit of blue and red when used correctly will do you fine. most, not all, scrubbers will leave loctite about like they found it provided it has a chance to fully cure. i typically don't see an issue with this, although there are many chemicals out there...

go with the flow on this one and you'll be fine.

i'm working on the two Geissele units Bill provided currently. a standard trigger and a select fire model are being run through the paces currently. the LMT is being included this time as well. jewell isn't interested as well as KAC and jard. if anyone has one they'd allow me to borrow i'd gladly use it and return it with only the wear i apply...

i have both small and large pin lowers built and ready to go. anyhelp you guys might be able to provide would be super.

thanks,



michael