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Posted: 5/22/2017 4:30:52 PM EDT
Not seen one of these for a while. It's supposed to never happen, so thought these pictures worth sharing.
This was not from a high volume gun (as can be seen by bolt face) and it was using Federal 55gr. Not sure what happened other than the indestructible lobster tail extractor is not indestructible. 
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Posted: 5/22/2017 4:34:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Interesting thanks for the pics.
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Posted: 5/22/2017 4:42:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Not seen one of these for a while. It's supposed to never happen, so thought these pictures worth sharing. This was not from a high volume gun (as can be seen by bolt face) and it was using Federal 55gr. Not sure what happened other than the indestructible lobster tail extractor is not indestructible. http://i64.tinypic.com/29icmh.png http://i66.tinypic.com/2wmkffp.png This is why I sold my SR-15 Mod 0's upper...I wasn't a fan of anything proprietary. And because of this some KAC Fan-boi castigated me for even considering this...I wish I could remember that's fool's name. Anyhow, sold the upper to fund a suppressor and put an LE6940 upper on the SR-15 lower...it shoots like a laser. |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 4:49:12 PM EDT
[#3]
That is a low grade KB
Bolt did good! |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 4:59:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is a low grade KB Bolt did good! |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 5:02:42 PM EDT
[#5]
No doubt on it being an over-pressured round, and the resulting mess.
Bad part was zero spare lobster tail extractors to be had in an LEO class of 30+ people so that gun was out for the count. |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 5:03:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Tag for more info
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Posted: 5/22/2017 6:03:32 PM EDT
[#7]
Does not look like a normal failure. Might want to post in the KAC forum. I imagine they would like to take a look at it.
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Posted: 5/22/2017 6:06:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No doubt on it being an over-pressured round, and the resulting mess. Bad part was zero spare lobster tail extractors to be had in an LEO class of 30+ people so that gun was out for the count. Seeing how the rest of the bolt held up just fine, we can't quantify a measurable fault to the (lack of)integrity of the E3 bolt. Also, KAC never stated that the extractor is as 'beefy' and 'indestructible' as the bolt itself, the redesigned extractor can only aid in better reliability to the gun's extraction cycle. Personally I have a feeling other bolts will have similar failure on the extractor itself. Interesting picture none the less. |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 6:40:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does not look like a normal failure. Might want to post in the KAC forum. I imagine they would like to take a look at it. |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 6:53:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Paging @Jack_L, @Sourmug, @KAC_Sales
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Posted: 5/23/2017 2:07:56 AM EDT
[#11]
I've read to expect 35k out of their bolt. I would have expected more tbh. There are $100 lifetime warranty standard bcg's doing that and better. They don't require unicorn barrels either. I must say it does look very well designed except for the dual springs. I hate that. Imo inferior. Two even tinier springs expected to do better? Give me a standard setup with a Sprinco everytime. If there were a 2nd standard size spring, maybe one moved towards the extraction claw, then you'd have something(not needed). I've heard the e3 is a little beefier and the rounded edges should be standard for every bolt. So props for that much, but sell spare barrels at least! Even if only to rifle owners. Greed and being control freaks = < $.
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Posted: 5/23/2017 2:19:41 AM EDT
[#12]
To be fair I don't see anything that falls under the bolt failing. But the extractor definitely is done for. Contact KAC, I'm sure they will make it right. They took care of me on something that wasn't even their fault
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Posted: 5/23/2017 3:09:32 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've read to expect 35k out of their bolt. I would have expected more tbh. There are $100 lifetime warranty standard bcg's doing that and better. They don't require unicorn barrels either. I must say it does look very well designed except for the dual springs. I hate that. Imo inferior. Two even tinier springs expected to do better? Give me a standard setup with a Sprinco everytime. If there were a 2nd standard size spring, maybe one moved towards the extraction claw, then you'd have something(not needed). I've heard the e3 is a little beefier and the rounded edges should be standard for every bolt. So props for that much, but sell spare barrels at least! Even if only to rifle owners. Greed and being control freaks = < $. The E3 extractor springs are much longer than the standard AR extractor spring, and the diameter of the coil itself is not that much thinner. The E3 extractor springs are also under much less compression than the standard spring. LMT also uses the same design in their 'enhanced bolt'. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 3:34:51 AM EDT
[#14]
Interesting failure. I have an SR-15 MOD 2 that has around 9000 rounds on it, with the majority being suppressed still going strong.
I am more than certain Knight's Armament will get you squared away. Jack or Adam Pini with KAC should be contacting you soon, or you can email [email protected] regarding your issue. Any more info on the failure? @Jack_L @KAC_Sales |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 6:22:40 AM EDT
[#15]
Shouldn't this thread be renamed to "Broken Knight's extractor"?
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:25:35 AM EDT
[#16]
So an over pressure round chipped the extractor (the world is ending) and we blame kac? Interesting photo but the bolt itself appears to be fine.Nobody(outside of kac) can show an e3 bolt that's had a actual failure from use and not a fud round.No bolt on earth is immune to a drunk ammo loader or brass that's been loaded 10 times.
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:36:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Funny to watch fanbois get preterbed
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:07:06 AM EDT
[#18]
Please reach out to myself or Jack when you can. My email is [email protected]
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:33:17 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny to watch fanbois get preterbed Nothing is indestructible, especially when it appears to be an over-pressure situation. Regardless, thread title is misleading. Extractor =/= bolt. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:50:35 AM EDT
[#20]
Tag
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:51:10 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Not seen one of these for a while. It's supposed to never happen, so thought these pictures worth sharing. This was not from a high volume gun (as can be seen by bolt face) and it was using Federal 55gr. Not sure what happened other than the indestructible lobster tail extractor is not indestructible. http://i64.tinypic.com/29icmh.png http://i66.tinypic.com/2wmkffp.png Um, your ammo failed and the only damage was to the extractor... I'm not seeing how we failed you here. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:53:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny to watch fanbois get preterbed Every time a case-head separation happens in any other gun, nobody even notices! |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:58:02 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is a low grade KB Bolt did good! |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:21:36 AM EDT
[#24]
Do we know it was an overpressure round or just all guessing here?
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:32:10 AM EDT
[#25]
More pics? Gun? Chamber/barrel extension? The spent case?
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:42:19 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do we know it was an overpressure round or just all guessing here? 
e3 bolt with bowed outward extractor 
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:58:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not seen one of these for a while. It's supposed to never happen, so thought these pictures worth sharing. This was not from a high volume gun (as can be seen by bolt face) and it was using Federal 55gr. Not sure what happened other than the indestructible lobster tail extractor is not indestructible. http://i64.tinypic.com/29icmh.png http://i66.tinypic.com/2wmkffp.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not seen one of these for a while. It's supposed to never happen, so thought these pictures worth sharing. This was not from a high volume gun (as can be seen by bolt face) and it was using Federal 55gr. Not sure what happened other than the indestructible lobster tail extractor is not indestructible. http://i64.tinypic.com/29icmh.png http://i66.tinypic.com/2wmkffp.png Quoted:
No doubt on it being an over-pressured round, and the resulting mess. Bad part was zero spare lobster tail extractors to be had in an LEO class of 30+ people so that gun was out for the count. BTW, if the operator didn't have a spare extractor to repair his over pressure round that's his failure not Knight's! |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 10:01:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. Bolt is fine, just replace the extractor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That is a low grade KB Bolt did good! I keep one in the stock. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 10:02:00 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do we know it was an overpressure round or just all guessing here? Bad bolt failure is more likely to shear lugs/crack at the cam pin/crack lugs - without the extractor getting bent out the side. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 10:16:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do we know it was an overpressure round or just all guessing here? |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 10:20:02 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you knew it was a over pressure round but came here anyway to troll KAC? Weak sauce. BTW, if the operator didn't have a spare extractor to repair his over pressure round that's his failure not Knight's! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not seen one of these for a while. It's supposed to never happen, so thought these pictures worth sharing. This was not from a high volume gun (as can be seen by bolt face) and it was using Federal 55gr. Not sure what happened other than the indestructible lobster tail extractor is not indestructible. http://i64.tinypic.com/29icmh.png http://i66.tinypic.com/2wmkffp.png Quoted:
No doubt on it being an over-pressured round, and the resulting mess. Bad part was zero spare lobster tail extractors to be had in an LEO class of 30+ people so that gun was out for the count. BTW, if the operator didn't have a spare extractor to repair his over pressure round that's his failure not Knight's! To the OP, are you an instructor? |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 10:30:02 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That is a low grade KB Bolt did good! I keep one in the stock. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 11:07:45 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does that also fit an LMT enhanced bolt? Do they use the same extractor and springs? |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 11:11:17 AM EDT
[#34]
I am sure KAC will sell you a spare extractor.
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Posted: 5/23/2017 12:30:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shouldn't this thread be renamed to "Broken Knight's extractor"? |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 1:54:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even more fun to watch people clutter up a technical thread with useless drivel, and other people that can't use common sense to diagnose a failure, nor accurately describe what happened. Nothing is indestructible, especially when it appears to be an over-pressure situation. Regardless, thread title is misleading. Extractor =/= bolt. you got idiots bashing the best made bolt in the business, when the bolt took a KB and the only thing that was wrecked was the extractor 
In another gun you would see lugs gone, or the entire gun in parts @elucidate change the title, the bolt is fine |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 1:56:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do we know it was an overpressure round or just all guessing here? the extractor is the 1st thing to give in a KB, the next would be the lugs, specially the one adjacent to the extractor. This was not from wear, and that leaves one thing that could cause those brass marks |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 2:02:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this you got idiots bashing the best made bolt in the business, when the bolt took a KB and the only thing that was wrecked was the extractor
In another gun you would see lugs gone, or the entire gun in parts @elucidate change the title, the bolt is fine 
It did blow the magazine out of the bottom. I put a new extractor in it and put it back to work. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 2:03:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is why I sold my SR-15 Mod 0's upper...I wasn't a fan of anything proprietary. And because of this some KAC Fan-boi castigated me for even considering this...I wish I could remember that's fool's name. Anyhow, sold the upper to fund a suppressor and put an LE6940 upper on the SR-15 lower...it shoots like a laser. 
you must be a fan of illogical arguments as well. nothing is wrong with the bolt, it actually handled better than your colt would have. Not having spare parts for your gun is a shortsighted owners fault, not KACs or anything related to proprietary parts |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 6:34:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Not seen one of these for a while. It's supposed to never happen, so thought these pictures worth sharing. This was not from a high volume gun (as can be seen by bolt face) and it was using Federal 55gr. Not sure what happened other than the indestructible lobster tail extractor is not indestructible. Like others have mentioned, that bolt looks fine after a mini kaboom, get a new extractor. Not the first time I've heard of issues with Federal 55gr ammo. XM-193? I've had Federal XM-193 rounds with inconsistent recoil impulse and popped primers in the past. A popped primer caused my rifle to lock up hard at a LMS Defense course years ago, had to get the instructor to help take the rifle apart as mortaring didn't help at all. Since I didn't have a second rifle at the time and I slowed the class down over a fucking little primer getting stuck between the gas key and CH I was pissed. One of the main reasons why I shoot and stockpile Wolf Gold today. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 6:46:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Wow, I leave the thread for a day and there is
1. A bunch of KAC detractors screaming 'I told you so' 2. A bunch of KAC fanboys getting mad 3. One or more defensive KAC reps I'm no stranger to what actually went on, and yes, I know it's not a bolt issue, it's a critical part of the bolt assembly though and this is important. If a disconnector spring breaks I'm not going to post 'disconnector spring failure' as without it, the entire trigger is useless, same case here, bolt assembly is now useless until extractor is fixed. Why is it important to note it's a critical part? Well KB's can happen. All of the ammo being used here was factory ammo as issued to PDs. If a KB does happen, then in this case, the bolt became inoperable. You should have spares if you have proprietary kit. The shooter in this case didn't, so that is his fault, not the fault of KAC. Basically critical parts should have multiple backups. Also, because of the proprietary nature, no-one had a spare to hand, if it'd been a standard Colt TDP part, there would have been 10+ handed over instantly. This is no different to an HK416 or LMT parts failure. Both (as well as KAC) use a ton of proprietary parts and people should be aware of this. Why did I share the picture? Because this is the first EVER failure of a KAC anything that I have seen. That makes it interesting. If I chronicled Radical Firearms failures I'd have a 90 page thread entirely with my own posts. KAC/LMT bolts rarely fail, this is certainly the first I've seen in many years of running classes. Therefore it is interesting to share. People need to stop slinging mud! This is simply a "look at thing I've never seen before" thread. No-one could find the round so I don't know what it looks like, but it was a 55gr 556. I would expect it was very weak brass or a very hot load, as even proof loads (125% pressure) don't do this to extractors. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:02:40 PM EDT
[#42]
so what you just told us is it had nothing to do with kac's bolt failing and you just blamed them for no reason.
got it |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:14:39 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
No doubt on it being an over-pressured round, and the resulting mess. Bad part was zero spare lobster tail extractors to be had in an LEO class of 30+ people so that gun was out for the count. Quoted:
Wow, I leave the thread for a day and there is 1. A bunch of KAC detractors screaming 'I told you so' 2. A bunch of KAC fanboys getting mad 3. One or more defensive KAC reps I'm no stranger to what actually went on, and yes, I know it's not a bolt issue, it's a critical part of the bolt assembly though and this is important. If a disconnector spring breaks I'm not going to post 'disconnector spring failure' as without it, the entire trigger is useless, same case here, bolt assembly is now useless until extractor is fixed. Why is it important to note it's a critical part? Well KB's can happen. All of the ammo being used here was factory ammo as issued to PDs. If a KB does happen, then in this case, the bolt became inoperable. You should have spares if you have proprietary kit. The shooter in this case didn't, so that is his fault, not the fault of KAC. Basically critical parts should have multiple backups. Also, because of the proprietary nature, no-one had a spare to hand, if it'd been a standard Colt TDP part, there would have been 10+ handed over instantly. When you have an ammo failure like what is shown in your pictures, and you don't have any spare parts, you can only blame the ammo/ammo manufacturer, IMHO we shouldn't even fault the shooter/owner of the rifle. I don't think anyone is being defensive or mad... the guys here are simply stating what is actually happening. Basically, it is not simply a 'Broken Knights Bolt' that happened by standard usage, but rather, 'Broken Knight's Extractor Caused by Ammo Failure'. Maybe next time buy a spare parts kit just to be safe? |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:41:49 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so what you just told us is it had nothing to do with kac's bolt failing and you just blamed them for no reason. got it |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:58:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Things I learned in this thread
Kac fans get very defensive very fast. Haven't seen it that bad since the last bcm vs colt thread. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:05:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Looks like the bolt did its job and then some. If I made that bolt and it held up that well I would be proud of it. Craig
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:06:56 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please quote where I blamed KAC... 
Things break everyday and kac rifles are no exception to that.Starting a thread to tell everyone an e3 bolt failed when in fact a crap round destroyed the extractor is the problem.If you just posted that you were surprised that a problem round broke what you thought would be an indestructible extractor it would be different.The way it was written lays blame on one of their parts like it was supposed to somehow stop brass from coming apart at the wrong location and it failed because it was weak.You didn't clarify it wasn't their fault till long after this was posted and people pointed it out.Lots of us spend good money on a product with a good reputation and of course we'll defend it. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:10:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Opened this expecting exactly what it is. Change the title OP.
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:35:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please quote where I blamed KAC... Really, it ain't hard to spot. If it is, start with the thread title, then the two posts where you contradict yourself saying you have no idea what happened, then state you knew it was ammo related. That would be a good start. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 10:24:46 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Things I learned in this thread Kac fans get very defensive very fast. Haven't seen it that bad since the last bcm vs colt thread. Take the story for what it's worth, a very rare occurrence, where the shooter was underprepared for his proprietary system. For those that think their E3 bolts are good for life, realize that you'll want a spare just in case, especially because it's proprietary. Bad shit can happen to the most robust systems. And stop witch hunting, just because a product you like has cons pointed out doesn't mean the op is here to troll or push an agenda. I wouldn't of worded the op like it is, but accusations of trolling are a stretch. Let this teachable moment be a teachable moment, without the excessive defensiveness. |
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