H3 is pretty heavy.  If your not running a heavy profile barrel then an H1 is probably a better fit.  Sprinco Red spring is a good option that's a bit of extra power without going overboard.

Wolf and Tula ammo tends to be on the bottom end of the power spectrum.

Yep it's a H bar. Edited post to include barrel profile. I have a springco red, I'll try it next time I go shooting. Here is a few videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ8ThoB-tz0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7fNSfbuAwI

Even with an Hbar proper buffer would most likely be an H2.  A lightweight carrier should also reduce the buffer weight needed.

Made hot and embedded for you.

Cool thanks. Okay I will try a h2 buffer as well.

thanks for the pics.  it doesn't look like you have to remove much material , just basically bevel a ramp in. 

That carrier actually functioned without a cut.  I believe it was holding my carrier about .010 from being fully closed though.  I shaved it with a file a little at a time until when the rear of the carrier matched up with the edge of the lower/upper it would hold the trigger bar about .010 from being fully compressed.  It holds it a bit closer than the provided carrier does.

jaqufrost,since you have both triggers now could you do a write up of the BFS Gen 3 versus the Echo.Pro's/con's,easiest to use,trigger pulls,etc etc.Thanks

Unfortunately I haven't gotten range time with the BFS III yet

I ordered a trigger jig that I would like to use for an explanation video of how each trigger works. It may take awhile for me to make it happen though.

That would be great.Please keep us updated.

I wrote this in an IM to a guy asking which was better. Remember this is my current impression without getting any live fire time with the BFS III, just playing with it a bit. It was also written before I modded a carrier for the echo (which makes the release fire slightly easier to activate).

The decision as to which is a better choice depends on several variables:
1.) How important is the semi auto pull? The Echo is better at semi auto - I'm waiting on some Green springs from Hiperfire, but I think they may move the pull down into the 3lb range.

2.) Do you mind using a lightweight carrier and extra gas? BFS III doesn't have timing control. Running heavy gas and a light weight carrier should solve all the timing issues but may take a little tuning. Echo solves them by having a carrier controlled trigger lock that prevents an early pull combined with a back up disconnector that requires a longer pull (kinda like the old BFS II). If you don't pull the echo all the way to the rear it won't fire until the next time you pull the trigger all the way back and release it. You will always have rounds come out from simply moving your trigger finger - no chance of a round in the chamber and the hammer down unable to fire.

3.) Is 650RPM fast enough? I don't think I can push my Echo much faster than 650, maybe I can get to 700RPM, but they are slowing your finger down a bit to ensure you don't get a dead gun. The BFS III feels like I'll be able to go faster with it - I can't confirm this yet because I haven't gotten range time with it yet It does not have the long pull required like the Echo and old BFS II, so I should be able to go faster. It does have a longer pull in binary mode that feels almost like the normal wall is missing after the shot breaks. This is because they let the trigger rotate farther back in binary mode. If you miss the echo/binary shot due to a slow steady pull, the BFS III's camming action will reset so that the next shot happens on your next pull - not the release like the old design. I think I'm going to be able to hit 750 to 800 with the BFS III, but it will be completely dependent on how good I am at pulling the trigger.

4.) Do you have hard primers that need ignited? Echo does 7.62x39 pretty well with the stock springs. I know from experience I'll have issues with the BFS III unless I add a Wolff XP hammer spring, adding the spring increases pull weight to almost 9lb. Putting an ALG ACT hammer in only dropped it to 7.5lb. After I use up my 6,000 rounds of hard primered golden tiger .223, I'll put a stock spring back in - maybe even the included blue spring. That will put me back in the 4.5-5lb range.

I like the BFS III ambi safety a little better.

I guess due to availability and price I would probably get the BFS III first, but I can see reasons to get the echo instead. 

Thank You Sir.Please keep us updated as you get some range time with the BFS III.I'm really excited to hear Franklin is making one for the HKSeries.

Now my K can be just like my Tippman A5!!!!!!!!!

It's been a while since I posted here. I haven't made much progress lately getting a 22 to work reliably. I believe I have it pinpointed down to a few ideas to finish it off, but haven't had the time to try them. I'll post up the progress I have made in hopes that you guys can assist me in getting this solved. Go down to the TLDR section to skip my work leading up to the current situation.

First off, getting the CMMG auto sear trip to work with the timing mechanism. My initial thought was that the trip kit had to be modified in a similar way to the echo supplied carrier. Unfortunately, the metal is very strong but extremely brittle and broke when I attempted to bend it. I angled the trip and set it in place using JB weld. Hindsight 20/20 and all that, I also believe you can leave the trip stock and just extend the cuts in your CMMG bolt as shown in the picture below to give it greater movement.



The other major modification I made was to swap out the spring in the timing mechanism. Using the stock timing spring, the bolt is unable to go into battery. I found a set of 84 or 88 springs in Home Depot for ~$4 that has a few springs that are similar in strength and diameter to the stock spring. I cut a few of these down to various lengths hoping to reduce the power since the spring in the CMMG bolt is weak compared to the strength of the buffer spring in an AR. Unfortunately, the result so far has been 100% in semi mode but only the first two shots in echo mode will work as intended. It will be release fire only after that because the spring is not powerful enough to reset the timing mechanism fully to allow the hammer to be ready to fire on the next pull of the trigger. This is reproducible by switching the trigger to semi and back to echo which fixes the problem for the next 2 shots.
I have a few thoughts on ways to fix this: the obvious one is to continue to work on finding a spring that is a bit stronger but not too strong to keep the bolt from returning to battery. The second way is the contact between the hook on the timing mechanism and the disconnector. They are both hook shaped at the end and I imagine that creates a significant amount of friction that is too much for the weaker replacement spring to overcome. I believe grinding off one or both of these hooks with a dremel would reduce the friction and allow this to work more reliably. I have yet to try this since it is irreversible.


TLDR: To date, I have achieved 100% reliability in semi only mode and up to 2-6 rounds from echo mode. The problem in echo mode is that the timing mechanism will not fully release and allow the trigger to reset. This results in echo mode working perfectly the first time and subsequent release only shots in echo mode. This is a consequence of reducing the spring power on the timing mechanism to assist the relatively weak CMMG return spring (as compared to an actual AR buffer spring) in returning to battery.

https://taccom3g.com/product/22rf-reliability-kit/ high power recoil spring for cmmg conversion kit

Thanks. I searched for an extra power recoil spring before and couldn't find much. That might work, but I'm not willing to put that much money into this.

see if they will just sell the spring i would call can only be a few dollars and imagine the savings in ammo after you get it working

https://taccom3g.com/product/hp-recoil-spring/

Fine, you guys win. I'll order one. Thanks.

Range report: I'm up to 10-12 round bursts shooting 22lr. The problem now appears to be no/light primer strikes. I used a slightly stronger/longer spring for the timing mechanism and also polished the contacts between the timing mechanism and the hammer. I'm hoping that the extra power recoil spring plus an enhanced 22 firing pin will correct this problem.

Also dumped about 60 rounds of 5.56 in the best run I have had yet on the echo. It was very consistent strings and the rate of fire felt like the full auto ARs I've had the opportunity to shoot. Of course, I forgot to bring my camera.

for the 22 conversion kits theres a mod for the loght primer strikes you thin out the stock firing pin like cutting a flat head screw driver in half long ways smaller impact area on the lr round causes greater impact read it on a forum where a guy was trying to get a cmmg kit to work consistantly on an m16 lower thats where i found taccon

Does anyone know where Fostech is on fulfilling orders?

It's been crickets. 

I was told "soon". 

That was about a month ago... 

Mid April for my order date. 

june 26th order was told last week of december first week of january the first week of november when i called bc they started shipping havent herd anything yet either they took 1.5 wks to ship march now 1.5 mos to ship half of april whiskey tango foxtrot

edit giving the benefit of the doubt cause of the holidays and shot show soon going to get impatient pd in full from second week in nov

In addition to the extra power recoil spring, I bought an enhanced firing pin. For only a few dollars, I don't have to risk ruining my only 22lr firing pin with a dremel.

I preordered and paid 5/1 in full.  Since they changed the design and it won't work with .22 I will probably sell it.  The bfsiii works perfect.

how much did you have to tune to get rid of the hammer follow

I've seen zero need to "tune" the BFSIII with .22LR setups. 

Mine (ST-22 upper) ran awesome, save my upper being dirty as heck causing a few stovepipes (which is no fault of the BFS trigger). 

I'm wondering if they ran out.

As most of this stuff is made in batches I'm guessing they have expended the first batch and are working on the next run right now.  It could be awhile.

I called customer service yesterday and left a voicemail with my invoice number looking for an update. I received a voicemail today while I was at work saying I could call back and pay and my trigger would ship this week. I called back and paid and just received a tracking number. My order was done on 4/10/16.

I have the bfs 3 and it works perfectly on my ARAK-21. Now that upper doesn't use a buffer. I need to try it with other uppers. I need to find a place to shoot in Wisconsin that doesn't mind rapid fire.

I just got my tracking number this afternoon my order was placed April 22.

Looks like I'll be getting mine on Monday.

Good to hear. 

I wonder why I still have not received my email to complete my order? I ordered 11 days before you. 

They may have pulled his out of order because he contacted them. It wouldn't surprise me if they pulled someone who hadn't paid and sent it to him.

I never got an email but I did pay in full on monday.
I was concerned that since things were getting close that I might have missed the email/phone call and didn't want to get bumped to a different batch.
I have no idea if it made any difference paying sooner than expected.

I've called and emailed, and I've gotten no response to either. 

Gotcha, thanks for the info. 

I'll try again and see what's up. I called them back when they were pumping out late March orders, and all I wanted to do was pay in full so they could just ship it when it was ready. I could never get through, so I left a voicemail. No response at all. 

I emailed them a couple days ago, and still nothing. At SHOT, Judd told my colleague that they'd get mine out right away...

Me too! My order was placed April 15th.  I can't wait until Monday.

While I am very happy for you guys, I'm getting VERY irritated that people who ordered AFTER me are getting theirs before me.... 

OK, I'm a happy camper now. 

Got a hold of Sophie, who was wonderful. She explained everything, and got me taken care of. 

I now have a tracking number and should have mine by next Tuesday. 

The new phone system seems to really be helping. 

Awesome!

I messed around with my Echo last night and swapped in a set of green springs.  It lowered pull weight to just under 4lb.  I'm wondering if that will be enough extra force to ignite the batch of hard primered .223 I have.  It should be pretty close as the stock springs were igniting 7.62x39 for me.

I also played around with the included carrier and my cut carrier to see how much pull weight changes.  With the included carrier it's 10lb to activate the binary mode and it only takes 6lb with my cut carrier.  I think I'm going to cut a few more carriers and use them almost exclusively.  This may all vary a little bit receiver to receiver, but if you feel Echo is too hard to activate then grab an M16 carrier and cut it down just a little.  You want the carrier to fully close and fully compress the trigger lock.

I still need to try the lighter trigger lock spring and bushing that dubtap sent me.

I've bought two of the BFS3's (second one arriving today) and would really like to purchase an ECO for comparison at some point when they become more available.  Went with the BFS since it was readily available on EBay (bought the last one!!! ) and I wanted to be able to run my 22 conversion kits.  Both systems seem to have advantages over the other.  I have ZERO patience when it comes to purchasing and having to wait for something to arrive

So the green hyperfire springs lighter than the oem echo springs... Is that a pull weight till it fired in echo or all the way back to the frame?

edit.... just ordered some to try out.

As soon as I can get another 9mm bolt and get out to the range again I will make a final test on the BFS III in one of my 9mm's and compare it to the ECHO.  I hope its next week

Green toggle springs seemed to just effect the first shots pull weight and didn't change the extra pull to set the echo shot off.  I mainly put them in because I wanted a harder strike and I'm hoping they will have enough extra strength to shoot the 6,000rds of cheap ammo I bought  To set off the echo shot it takes 6lb of pressure when using my cut carrier and about 10lb with the provided carrier.  I think it's a bit shorter to activate with my cut carrier as well, but I haven't come up with a good way to measure it yet.

Since your using the m16 carrier forget the spring, it only helped with the echo carrier. Bushing should eliminate all stacking in echo mode.

Shot it with a red springco spring and h2 buffer didn't seem to have any stuttering just a little more recoil. Next I need to try some decent 5.56 ammo instead of crappy wolf.

My second trigger is going into a 9mm pistol.   I have a 9mm rifle also but since it uses a RockRiver non-ramped bolt I won't be using it in that gun. That trigger in that system may or may not work with the BFS.

any updates on where they are with shipping?