Looking to add one more rifle to my lineup.  I prefer to keep it around $1600 but am willing to spend up to $2000.

My current thoughts are going with a DDM4 V7.  

Is there anything that is really a step up in this range?

Thanks

$2000 total or including optic? I personally think as far as quality, accuracy, fit and finish go there aren't many companies I would rather support over daniel defense. My ddm4 V3 has been nothing but excellent and the only malfunction I ever had out of it was caused by a worn out magazine that caused the same double feeds on another rifle.

DD and BCM both make excellent AR's in the $1500 range.  I was leaning towards a DD but found a Midwest Industries Sentinel Concepts rifle in stock at Operation Parts for $1599 and picked it up.  I'm impressed with the parts they used and will shoot it this weekend.

I am talking about the rifle only.  The optics are not part of the $2,000

Id get on the list for a Larue personally, I have been drooling over the predatobr for several months now. KAC looks good to, but I can't comment since I have no experience with them.

I have the predator.  Being in Texas the PredatOBR would run me $2400 + and the kac is out of my budget too.

thanks

I personally recommend Knight's Armament. I have an SR-15 Mod 2 that I've got almost 7000 rounds through. The gun still holds roughly MOA accuracy and functions absolutely reliably.

I've run it predominantly suppressed but it's an absolute soft shooter and very flat without the can on the end. Gun out of the box doesn't really need any changing besides a different pistol grip unless you get one of their MLOK guns.

KAC SR15 of your choice. Doesn't get much better than this.

For commercial AR15 rifles, I stick to Colt LE6920 and DDM4, and both can be had less $1600 out of the door. Personally, I don't even look at others.

Colt LE6920 for budget.  KAC SR-15 Mod1 or Mod 2 if you can swing it.

You can get into a "base" LMT for around 1500...

If You went anywhere else from there, I'd go with a "higher" end LMT or  Knights...

Lwrc, what ever you purchase I would get it soon.

KAC, there is nothing better on the market for a complete weapon

I think you are on the right track with a DDM4. Very solid rifle that will last a long time/forever depending on your shooting schedule. Great warranty/customer service in case a [rare] problem ever occurred.
I have a few DD rifles and have never had any troubles with any of them; I will always recommend a Daniel Defense rifle.

Thanks guys. Placed an order on a KAC SR15 e3 mod 2.

Lwrci ic di

Was that in your <$2000 range?

You won't regret that decision.

25 dollars over.  I will make it work.

Good choice!

If I was given $2000 and had to use it to buy a factory rifle I would probably buy a DD, Larue, or (after seeing iraqveteran's video) a POF.

Personally I would never spend anywhere close to $2000 on an AR because I can build one for $600 that will do everything the $2000 one would. I'd rather spend that extra cash on a quality light, optic, and sling; and use whatever was left for ammo.

Man, I wish I had the same problem. That being said, I would go with an LMT or the DD. Hard to beat that quality for your lower price range. I pieced together an LMT Defender 2000 for my first AR, great gun. Still, good choice on the SR-15.

LMAO STOP

please enlighten me

How are you on ammo, mags, spare parts, optics?

If all good, I'd either go the BCM Recce with KMR-A.  It's keymod vs the MLOK DD v7, but I don;t see how the DD is $300+ better.  If you want a differentiated rifle in your range, get a KAC SR15.  What I'd do is get the BCM and an Aimpoint.

ET: Good choice OP

LMT was my first and probably favorite brand, but you have to change the HG at minimum on a base model.  You're now looking at a $1750+ rifle (with new gas block) with a stock trigger and charging handle.  No thanks

Thanks for the advice. I am good on mags ammo and optics. I do need to move some rifles. Would you list them now or in 2 weeks for max value?

Keep and make friends you trust... 4 men is a fireteam

SR15

/Thread

Mine is my go to rifle.

Thanks for the advice. I am good on mags ammo and optics. I do need to move some rifles. Would you list them now or in 2 weeks for max value?

If you can afford to wait, why not? You have nothing to lose....you can only profit.

I don't understand the logic behind KAC's myself. Very expensive AR's for what benefit? A bolt that becomes useless as soon as your barrel is done? A well made standard bolt does that as well and can then be used with a standard replacement barrel and others parts. If you want another KAC barrel it requires buying another $1,700 upper. I'm not opposed to KAC. I just don't get the reasoning for why so many consider them the best AR's when imo they are at a disadvantage. If I were spending $2,000 on an AR lacking standard compatibility I'd try out a Barrett REC 7. Never owned a piston AR and it appears well made and lw. I never see them discussed and wonder why?

This has been brought up many times.  I'm a strong builder myself, but kac rifles aren't a premium at their price, they are fairly priced.  When you add up what you get with it, fully ambi lower, 2 stage trigger, h buffer, lmt stock, kac bolt, buis, ff rail, ect and compare how much it would take to add those same features to a colt per say and the kac would come out cheaper.



They are expensive because of what you get.  KAC has some unique designs, I'm sure at this point you already know what those are; the point of those "disadvantages as you say" is to make a rifle that is so reliable and durable that you don't need to worry about it going wrong.  

Personally I think you lose credibility describing a proven gun, KAC isn't a new company, as a disadvantage then saying that you would try guns that you have never used and are relatively new and unproven.  

The piston guns have been discussed at length, Google it, the general view is that there is nothing wrong with the current design and adding another moving part to the mix doesn't make anything better, this is debated of course.  If you think that being dirty is that much of a disadvantage you should google BCM filthy 14.

Not necessarily. Run a suppressor on a shorty almost exclusively and the bolt will usually break and go before the barrel does -- assuming the barrel is of good quality. Also false. According to Jack, Knight's will rebarrel an upper receiver should you need it and the barrel is shot. The E3 design truly shines for suppressed weapons or shorties -- even more so in suppressed shorties.

OP, I feel as though you've made an excellent choice. The proprietary parts in the SR-15 are to your benefit. For $2000, you're getting a two stage trigger that performs very much like the Geissele SSA and an LMT SOPMOD stock with native ambidextrous controls on a forged receiver that's not billet. Add the fact the rifle is pretty damned lightweight, soft shooting and has the E3 bolt, and you've got good value for 2000.

I would think it was a correct choice given the research and praise it gets. I won't wear it out. If it is my go to rifle I wil be proud.

I love spikes and will continue to support them for the customer service I got. Selling 4 rifles which leaves me 4 including 3 newer ones.

My larue Predatar
Spikes pipe hitters
Spikes black assassin v2 mlok pinned and the
Kac .

My only debate is selling the pipe hitters for a ddm4v7. Haven't shot either.

I am stocked until I improve optics to an acog or aimpt. I have decent quality optics available for all.

Me too. I have an el cheapo that has thousands upon thousands of rounds both steel and brass through it and it still looks brand new. A lot of guys think cheap guns are all junk but that's simply not the case. Maybe a higher percentage of them will turn out to be junk. And maybe my gun will last 15,000 rounds instead of 20,000 but it will take me a long while to find out and even then will the extra $1400 be worth it. If it's 5000 more rounds I say no. 10,000 rounds?  More?  I think it starts to get subjective.

I don't care one but if guys want to drop coin on an expensive gun. That's totally cool. Just don't look down your nose st me for my choice and don't fool yourself into thinking you're getting almost three times the gun. As far as longevity is concerned you're probably not.

Everyone has their opinion. I think people lose their credibility when they try to convince everyone else that the rifle the bought and cheer for is far superior because they paid more for it.   The basic AR design is there in all AR's. It's not like KAC is radically different. Look at the thread Ron started. PSA's are doing great on the line Bader heavy firing schedules. So I see little reason to spend more when I can spend a lot less on something that I know performs. If I wanted a KAC because that's just what I wanted because I thought they are cool then sure. But I wouldn't kid myself. I would think I was getting a gun that would last three timers longer than other guns.

Let's compare cars. You can spend $100,000 on a car or $30,000 and if both are properly taken care of they will last the same mileage wise. More or less the same with the basic parts of an AR. Like I said you might get more duds with a cheap AR but if you get one that is gtg (which statistically you will) then they will last the same more or less.

As far as accuracy sure the KAC will be better but what are you using the gun for?  HD or general SHTF gun?  Then you're looking at 200 yards which the cheaper AR will achieve no problem.

Like I said it's awesome that you shelled out the cash for a great gun. I just don't get why more guys just don't say I paid a lot for it because ok that's what I wanted. Instead they try to say things like unique design special bolt blah blah blah. It just sounds you're trying to justify it to yourself when you do that.

Maybe I'm taking it wrong but that's how I take it when I see guys say stuff like that.

I agree to an extent. To get the job done, most of us don't need more than a Colt 6920 or something comparable. We mostly buy other stuff because we want other stuff. However, I do think there is merit in improvements that some rifles provide. It's just a matter of whether or not the user wants those improvements. I think the problem comes when people try to sell improvements as 'essential' must haves.

However, the car analogy doesn't really hold up. The SR-15  Mod 2 is an AR with improvements made. The SR-15 bolts *will* outlast the standard GI design. The Mod 2 gas system was designed to address gas leakage and maximizes the gases. It's a more efficient and ambidextrous system that results in a rifle that shoots accurately and very flat while still being lightweight.

I wholeheartedly believe that the SR-15 is worth every penny for what you're getting for those 2000 dollars. Ha, just look around and see what ambidextrous stripped lower receivers cost. That's without a two stage trigger or the SOPMOD stock. It'll most likely also be made from billet, and not a forging -- meaning the receiver will either be heavier or weaker at the same weight.

$1500 is a Daniel Defense gun, right? Well, add a nice two stage trigger. That's about 165 to 220 if it's something like a Geissele. Add a B5 SOPMOD, which isn't the KAC/LMT for 100. You've already got about 1800 in. Why not just drop 200 more for native ambidextrous controls on a forged receiver, an enhanced gas system and the E3 bolt?

Your car analogy doesn't fly IMO. I'd wager good money that you'll get more hassle free miles out of even a Toyota Corolla than a $100k plus Jaguar...or a plethora of other more expensive vehicles from numerous other manufacturers.

KAC, however, you actually do get what you pay for. Mileage wise, and features wise.

Yes, you are taking it wrong.  Take a breath, no one is looking down at you because you are shooting a cheaper gun, if you hear that it's just you;  lets talk though this rationally, all I'm saying at least is that the added cost is justified for what you get.  It may not be worth it to everyone, and I certainly wouldn't argue that it's THE gun for everyone, but for what you get it's worth the added cost if you can afford it.  Most people will come close to the cost of a KAC over time in add-ons that the SR-15 comes stock with, price it out.  

Now, I would argue that KACs design is a little different than your run of the mill AR, their bolt design, full-ambi lower, and gas system is certainly unique, even more so when it came out; the FF handguard, H buffer, SOPMOD stock, and buis are more common but it's unique that a stock gun comes with those things.  What those things give you are better "performance" by that I mean softer recoil, parts that don't wear out as fast, able to be comfortably manipulated, things like that; is that for everyone, nope, but for those who value those things it's nice.  I would argue that the SR-15 will last longer, but that's not even really an issue since most people only fire a few hundred bullets a year, what they are paying for are the other things I mentioned.  It's true a $30,000 car will get you to the same place as a $100,000 car will, but the $30,000 dollar car isn't equal to the $100,000 car as much as we would like to believe it is.  Yes, a PSA rifle will will shoot the same bullets that a KAC will, but you said it yourself, it most likely won't be as accurate, it definitely won't shoot as soft, nor will it have the added "luxuries", which people deem worth having when they buy a rifle like that.  To determine the value of the lower alone just look on EE, it's highly valued.  

People aren't shitting on your basic rifle by saying buy a KAC, no one looks down on you for having one, definitely not for knowing how to use it, but by the same token, there are things that a KAC does that a PSA doesn't and at this point you have to pay more to get those things.  They may not be justifiable to you, but to others they are.  In the end, people don't normally buy a gun for a SHTF scenario or to defend their home, they buy it for the experience of shooting plain and simple, each person has their own ideas of what they want that experience to be like.

Figured this was needed:

Other Rifle, DD:
1500 - Daniel Defense base gun
95 - B5 SOPMOD (Not KAC/LMT)
180 - Geissele two stage trigger
200 - Folding BUIS, Troy, KAC (usually cost more, but this is an estimation), Magpul (MBUS Pro a little less)
60 - Ambidextrous selector (rough average between basic selectors and stuff like KAC, AXTS, BAD, etc)
15 - Keymod panels
2050 - Total so far without ambi controls, E3 bolt or enhanced gas system

Other Rifle, Colt:
990 - Colt 6920 base gun
180 - KMR Alpha 13"
45 - Low pro gas block (cost even more to get it pinned unless you do it yourself)
95 - B5 SOPMOD (Not KAC/LMT)
180 - Geissele two stage trigger
200 - Folding BUIS, Troy, KAC (usually cost more, but this is an estimation), Magpul (MBUS Pro a little less)
60 - Ambidextrous selector (rough average between basic selectors and stuff like KAC, AXTS, BAD, etc)
15 - Keymod panels
1765 - Total so far without ambi controls, E3 bolt or enhanced/midlength gas system

KAC SR-15
2025 - What OP paid
KAC/LMT SOPMOD stock
KAC two stage trigger
Ambidextrous magazine release and bolt release, forged receiver
Ambidextrous selector
200 - 600 Meter back up rear sight
Micro front folding back up sight
E3 bolt carrier group
CHF CL lightweight barrel with extended gas system
Mod 2 gas system minimizing leakage
URX4 one piece handguard (barrel nut is integrated into the handguard)
QDC 3 prong flash suppressor / QD mount for QDC line of suppressors
KAC keymod panels / Magpul MLOK covers

The other guns may be cheaper or have similar features -- but the KAC components are of higher quality and outperform the others. The numbers don't lie. The SR-15 is a good value for the price. Keep in mind it's also a professionally built rifle that has a reputable company backing it with a warranty.

Edited to add bold and colored text to make it easier to read.

Great points by everyone the past few posts. In the end, the value of a rifle is what an individual is willing to pay and if they believe it has the features that they like.

I've had bushmaters, RRA's Noveske's, LMT's, LWRC's, Knights, Larue, Spikes, DD's, Colt, and S&W's. A properly built rifle will function reliably and fill the needs for 95% of shooters out there. I am one who believes that the KAC Sr15 is a good value for all you get but, you also have to consider that Knight's has to recoup their cost for the R&D they put into the rifle with the upgrades they've added over the years.

Another thing about Knight's is that they are always trying to advance the platform. It may be at it's peak but, they always seem to find something to add or change that benefits the entire system. I forgot the round count but, I know it was in the hundreds of thousands, that Knight's put through the SR15 E3 testing before they thought it was worthy of bringing to the commercial market. To me, that's what separates them from some of the others.

I  was considering one myself. I decided against it after emailing KAC about spare parts. I was told I'd have to buy an upper. Imo it is worth the $ when I can buy a barrel now or anytime I want to. Spare bolts are actually available, but so are LMT Enhanced bolts. That is why, imo, it puts you at a disadvantage. I can build better, objective, for equal money and have replacement parts galore. Again, I like the rifle, and I highly respect those whom improve their craft, but I feel trapped by unavailable back-ups. Just how I think is all. OP bought a great rifle. I highly prefer DI AR's btw.

You're prices are a little high

don't get me wrong I don't discount the KAC as a fantastic gun, as I'd love to have one, but just can't justify forking out that much money at one time.  However, you can build something COMPARABLE, to the KAC for quite a few hundred less.

Colt 6920 OEM (1 or 2)- $750
B5 SOPMOD-Enhanced- $50
Larue MBT- $99
Take your pick of rail, G, Noveske, Fortis, BCM etc, $200 max
Back up sights - We'll go with $150, that's a little more reasonable
Ambi selector - $60
Keymod/mlok panels -$15

Total without any other upgrades:  Approx $1450

Take your pick at whatever extras you want to add onto it after that.

Like I said before, KAC rifles are sick, I'd love to have one, but you can build a "comparable" rifle for a decent bit less.  I'm not in the "my $600 rifle will outshoot your KAC" crowd, just a college kid who has to ball on a budget  This won't have all the bells and whistles, but it would serve most people fine.  More power to anyone who can afford the KAC though, I'm jealous and hope to own one myself one day.

...

as an FYI, KAC does not come with LMT Sopmod stocks...newer 16" guns are shipped with a magpul stock.  it does look like the 14.5" guns are shipped with the LMT SOPMOD however.

If OP has 2k to spend on a rifle, I'd be looking at KAC or LaRue.

Can anyone  show me a shot out kac barrel or broken e3 bolt? I know kiddsf had a barrel that was showing signs of wearing down but still held quite good accuracy for a chf barrel.That's one out of how many? knights will rebarrel the upper if you truly shoot it out ,but its not a cheap barrel.Then again if you shoot the barrel out you really shouldn't be complaining about the cost to replace it anyway.This whole being scared of proprietary stuff is bs if the parts actually work as claimed anyway.The small sr15 parts that could break and arent at every local store are sold at multiple online stores and are as easy to get as any other AR15 part is.If you actually shoot your AR15 you should have a few small parts on hand anyway for things that can happen.The only parts that are higher priced than a normal AR15 is the bolt and its not like anyone outside of kac has broken one anyway.

The truth is you cant build a rifle that is truly comparable to kac for less money than you can buy an sr15 for.All the figures above are great ,but you would need to add an lmt enhanced bcg and vltor a5 or intermediate length barrel or adjustable gas block to truly get on a similar playing field.Then you still don't have an ambi lower unless you go with a more expensive billet setup like axts/santan/.Plenty of fine rifles out there to choose from but calling the sr15 overpriced is ignorant


bcm midlength kmr rifle is roughly 1400
geissele ssa 180 on sale
lmt enhanced bcg 175
b5 sopmod 90
magpul mbus pros 150
we'll go with an slr adjustable gas block to make it easy 110

That total price is already more than the sr15 and those are normal street prices you see on that stuff.You still aren't getting the ambi controls or cool gas system upgrades you get with the mod2 sr15.You cant take a carbine gas stripped colt with a non hammer forged barrel and say its comparable to an sr15 just because you put a stock and trigger in it.If you like the features you get with the sr15 as a whole then its a solid price.

I've owned BCM, LWRCi, Colt, Noveske and all are excellent...!

That said... Go with a LaRue PredatAR 16"

That's just the MLOK 16" version IIRC...

It's also been stated by reps from Knight's that you can run a standard bolt in an E3 barrel extension but, is not recommended from long term use so, that really just leaves the gas tube on older models and GB/Barrel/Tube on Mod 2's  being the proprietary part that would render the rifle inoperable till a replacement is sourced.