I read all these threads in which people are claiming their barrels/rifles are "sub-moa".  Is there a standard convention about how that is measured or evaluated?  Are you shooting it from a lead sled or bench vise to eliminate human error factor?

Story leading up to aforementioned question:  

I've recently started reloading in hopes of tightening up my groups when on the range.  My favorite rifle has an 18" Larue stealth barrel which I expected to be capable of shooting sub-moa groups.  Up until recently about the best I could shoot consistently were 5 shot groups measuring 1.7" or so center to center of the furthest two rounds.  That was shooting off the shelf american eagle XM193 ammo.  Keep in mind that I am no superstar with a rifle.  I have no formal training and am at best a weekend warrior at the range, but I love to shoot.  Regardless, I wasn't thrilled with those results so I decided to bite the bullet and start loading my own ammo.  First time out with my handloads was a completely different story.  I was getting pissed watching my target because I couldn't see a bunch of holes being made all over it, then I brought it back in and figured out why.  Many of the holes were touching each other and my 5 groups of 5 rounds each went anywhere from about .5" to the worst being .9" measured center to center of the furthest spaced holes.

Obviously I had to go home and inform my wife that I am officially a bad-ass now, and as such I probably deserve a new rifle that is better equipped to contain my awesomeness (that's a joke).  However it did make me curious as to how everybody shoots and measures this revered milestone.  Thanks for showing me the light...

If I can figure out how to post a pic I'll load up the one of my target so everyone can tell me I'm either still a noob or if just maybe I'm threatening to join the cool kids club...  

Check out these links.

Lots of it is BS, but you'll find that on every shooting site.

There's at least one post on the MOA All Day challenge that I ain't buying.  So implausible that it doesn't pass the sniff test.

Most people would say that consistent repeatable five shot groups of 1 MOA (1.047" at 100 yards) are the minimum to claim MOA capability.  If the rifle will do that, regardless of how supported it is a 1 MOA RIFLE.  To be a 1 MOA shooter (the rifle and you)  gets into some quicksand with different standards by different people as to method of support.

Some would say a true 1 MOA rifle should be able to do this with 10 shot groups to further eliminate random chance.  It can be argued both ways as to whether 10 shot groups reduce variables or add them.  But if the rifle and you can consistently put ten shots inside 1.047" at 100 yards, no one is going to argue that it is not MOA.

The most accurate way to measure is usually considered to be use of dial calipers with the arms on each side of the outside edge of the two most extreme shots and then subtract the diameter of the bullet from that number.

Sounds like you have a good rifle, are using good technique and have some pretty nice handloads worked up.

Would love to see you post some of the target photos.

Just keep trying different load recipes and eventually you will hit on the one your barrel likes.  It may take many, many tries before you get there.  After many, many years of reloading for the .223/5.56 caliber, I have found that each barrel/rifle responds differently to different loads.

1.7" 5 shot groups with M193 ball ammo is very very good. That ammo is crap and literally nobody shoots it for accuracy testing.

The very best bullets for 100 yard accuracy testing are 52/53 grain match bullets. Your rifle will prefer one brand over another, so you need to experiement. Start with Sierra Match Kings, they will give you a good idea of what your rifle is capable of.

68 to 77 grain match bullets are best used at longer ranges, but will still perform pretty well at 100.

Mine sending me a PM or posting the one you don't believe.

 

Personally? With unicorns and fairy dust. I might, but probably not, have a firearm with the mechanical precision to do it, but I can't do my part.

I have the most accurate / precise AR in the world as far as I am concerned.  It is sub 1/2 moa for sure.
That being said, to actually make less than 1 moa groups consistently is not easy. Any slight breath or heart beat out of wack and your 5 shot group turns into a 4 shot moa group with the 5th round being an extra inch away. To make 5 consecutive 5 round groups under moa is nearly impossible without some luck added in.
I do shoot sub 1/2'' groups sometimes but it is no surprise for a 2-3 moa group to show up at an time.

Nothing 18" x 18" I hit at any range 100~600 yards is walking away from the event. That's my standard. MOA whatever.

Hey OP, I'm curious since I just bought a stealth barrel what your load data was for your handloads?

In my opinion the only way to determine if a rifle / ammo combination, and only the rifle / ammo, is a MOA firearm is to strap it in a rest and shoot it.  
But, who does that?  Nobody.  I certainly don't.  

Claims of MOA should be stated as "I can shoot MOA @ 100 yds with my XXX rifle" with YYY ammo.  You can't leave the capability of the shooter, ammo or the range out.  It's unrealistic to do so.
It also doesn't mean you can take your "MOA rifle" and put it in the hands of someone else and expect the exact same results.  Rifle, ammo, shooter, range should go hand in hand when making MOA claims and they often don't.  Optic and optic magnification should probably be thrown in there too.

Just because someone can shoot MOA at 100 yds doesn't mean the shooter / rifle can do it at 200, 300 and further.  To me, that's the real test of all of the components of shooting MOA.

OP, that's good shooting with the LaRue.  Even the 1.7" with M193.

I shot my new 12" LaRue Stealth build for the first time yesterday. 77gr OTMs and a Vortex Razor 1-6x scope. Used a Lead Sled but it was set up on a rickety folding table, which sucked. First 3-shot group at 100yds was 3" low and 1.5" left, but all in the same 1" square. I was very happy with that first group.

Subsequent groups suffered due to a combination of cigarette smoking, beer drinking, having to walk back and forth to check each group at the target, and me just being a shaky fucker in general.

Can't wait to get this rifle setup on a solid bench and really get serious with it.

It is determined by repeatedly making sub-moa 8-10 or more shot groups the way I intend to shoot(always prone, bipod,rear bag) day after day.

One or two sub moa 5shot groups once in a while don't count.



This is what I look for every time I shoot.
Not spectacular but good enough.

Link to the pic of the target is in the fourth post.  If i knew how to make the picture actually show up I would have, sorry.

For the person who asked about the load, those 5 groups were shot with 3 different loads.  I was actually trying to evaluate the reloads at the time.  The top two groups were 77gr SMK's over 22.0 grains of 8208-XBR with CCI 400 primers in Winchester brass.  The bottom two groups were the same except 22.5gr of powder, and the middle group was 23.0gr.

Thanks for the feedback.  I'll try some lighter bullets after I get these dialed in.  The range closest to my house is 100 yards (indoors) so that's where I do most of my testing.

Call it out then. Don't be scared.

Try 52 grain SMKs or 52 grain flat base Berger Target.  Both are just about optimum for 100 yards.  I'm doing better with the Bergers, but that might be within statistical margin of error.  The limiting factor is now me. Switching to Lapua match brass also helped.  Jury still out on primers. Bullets are over 26.0 grains of H4895.  This is not a hot load, but as always, all safety disclaimers apply. Start lower and work up.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1902401_does_anybody_else_think_there_are_some_dubious_enteries_in_the_MOA_all_day_long_challenge_.html&page=1



 

When I'm working up a load, I sand bag my rifle as much as I can while still shooting comfortably. I want to eliminate as much of my error when doing the load as I can.

Then if I'm shooting for bragging rights or zeroing the scope. I'll shoot with more room for error from me (like only off a bipod).  That lets me (at least mentally) account for differences I may have in position behind the gun when I'm hunting versus off the bench.  

For the MOA challenge none of my bags qualified for the rear hold, but another shooter in the thread had used a pair of rolled up socks. Not as good as my smallest bag flipped over, but with three socks stuffed in, it did fine with a little reshaping each shot.

That's "real world" right there.



 

Shooting 1.7" groups with XM193 is a pretty solid result.     You will get better results with better ammo, as you've now seen.

I agree that getting a 1.7" group with American Eagle XM193 is damn impressive, but consistency is key.
As a side note, I've recently found the most accurate XM193 clone in my SR15 Mod1.... GECO 55gr 5.56

I'm sure I can do better if I use a sled, since I was shooting at a indoor range using only my range bag and my primary arm is not supported.