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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:58:12 AM EDT
So I am looking at a decent long range AR up to 300yds maybe 500yds at most. I am really interested in the Daniel Defense MK12 SPR when my LGS tells me he likes Double D Armory better for accuracy. I do some research and the Double D doesn't get near the positive feedback that the Daniel Defense does. Feeling like the LGS is pushing the Double D because they are Local. Would like to hear some feedback on these two rifles and what other alternatives are out there that may be better? I will be using it almost solely for range shooting at least until SHTF :) New to the AR platform, still learning but picking up everything I can. |
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The Daniel Defense is an amazing gun It features a CHF stainless steel barrel, which is very unique and very very accurate. If your looking for an extremely accurate 5.56 I think it'd be a great choice. Resale value of the daniel defense would be quite high too, I've never heard of Doube D, may be a quality rifle, but DD is renowned for both quality and service if you ever need it.
All that being said if your after a Mk12 style clone, something emulating the military's Mk12, the Daniel Defense is not it. You could buy something like the complete Mk12 upper from ADCO and buy/build a lower for about the same price as the Daniel Defense, and have a more authentic style Mk12. That doesn't matter to some people, to other people with clone disease it's very important. |
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Are you simply looking for a factory precision oriented rifle or looking to build/buy a MK12 clone?
As mentioned above the Daniel Defense would be a nice factory rifle but is by no means a MK12. |
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DD needs to stop using MK12 name unless they are going to make a MK12 clone.
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I am definitely not looking for a clone rifle, I am really just looking for a nice precision factory AR. With all of the crap that is going around I just want to get a factory built AR under my belt before I cant buy one anymore and work on building my own later down the road. I was looking at getting a lighter carbine style AR and a Ruger precision rifle but funds are a little scarce right now so I am planning on doing a dual purpose rifle like the above mentioned. I really appreciate the feedback so far, I did get approval from management (the wife) to make the purchase so no im trying to make sure I make the right one.
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Sounds like you are looking more for a SPR type rifle, not a Mk12. You really want an AR with a 16" mid-length gas system barrel with either a 5.56 NATO or .223 Wylde chamber and a 1/8 or 1/7 twist. You would want a free-float handguard (12"-15") with the ability to attach a bipod. You also want a flat-top upper receiver. You need to consider a good 2-stage trigger or a light single-stage. In addition, you need to consider a stock option that is going to be comfortable for you and suit your needs.
LaRue Tactical has several options. http://www.larue.com/rifles?sort=popular Daniel Defense has several options as well. https://danieldefense.com/firearms/mid-length.html Rainier Arms also has several choices. https://www.rainierarms.com/complete-firearms-class-iii/rifles/ar-15-rifles/16-mid |
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I am definitely not looking for a clone rifle, I am really just looking for a nice precision factory AR. With all of the crap that is going around I just want to get a factory built AR under my belt before I cant buy one anymore and work on building my own later down the road. I was looking at getting a lighter carbine style AR and a Ruger precision rifle but funds are a little scarce right now so I am planning on doing a dual purpose rifle like the above mentioned. I really appreciate the feedback so far, I did get approval from management (the wife) to make the purchase so no im trying to make sure I make the right one. View Quote For what you're saying, look towards a 16" barrel. Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, and just about everyone else offer a 16" SS barreled upper with a good free float rail. That'll get you past 500 with good ammo if you're up to the task, I and others have taken Ballistic Advantage's 16" to 750+ using factory 77gr stuff like CBC or IMI Razor Core. |
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Yeah, because smart marketing to attract new customers to increase revenue for a successful company is a bad idea......... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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DD needs to stop using MK12 name unless they are going to make a MK12 clone. Yeah, because smart marketing to attract new customers to increase revenue for a successful company is a bad idea......... 99% of AR owners have no idea what a MK12 is. DD then uses this MK12 name and people going around misusing the term because it says it on the upper receiver it must be a MK12. They should have called it DD SPR. |
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99% of AR owners have no idea what a MK12 is. DD then uses this MK12 name and people going around misusing the term because it says it on the upper receiver it must be a MK12. They should have called it DD SPR. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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DD needs to stop using MK12 name unless they are going to make a MK12 clone. Yeah, because smart marketing to attract new customers to increase revenue for a successful company is a bad idea......... 99% of AR owners have no idea what a MK12 is. DD then uses this MK12 name and people going around misusing the term because it says it on the upper receiver it must be a MK12. They should have called it DD SPR. I think they can live with only annoying 1% of AR owners |
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Quoted: I think they can live with only annoying 1% of AR owners View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: DD needs to stop using MK12 name unless they are going to make a MK12 clone. Yeah, because smart marketing to attract new customers to increase revenue for a successful company is a bad idea......... 99% of AR owners have no idea what a MK12 is. DD then uses this MK12 name and people going around misusing the term because it says it on the upper receiver it must be a MK12. They should have called it DD SPR. I think they can live with only annoying 1% of AR owners |
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Mk12 Mod Holland is what you seek....
Also, I won't flat out call your dealer a liar - but I'd have to see it to believe it regarding the DDA > DD in the accuracy department. Every DD I've ever owned has been very, very accurate. |
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Precision Reflex International stills sells the original Mark 12 Mod 0.
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Quoted:...... what other alternatives are out there that may be better?
I will be using it almost solely for range shooting at least until SHTF :) New to the AR platform, still learning but picking up everything I can. View Quote 1. There are a huge amount of alternatives out there for you to choose from. "Better" is a relative term, and what works for me or a training partner, may not be as effective for you. You need to answer a few questions before anyone can give you an honest answer. a. What sort of glass are you looking to put on it? If you are going with cheap glass, or low magnification, it changes some things. b. What sort of ammo do you plan to use? If you are only going to shoot Wolf, or the cheapest ammo you can find, it once again changes things. If you are going to have some high end ammo, or reload your own, you are going to want a high quality barrel. c. Do you plan on carrying this out in the woods/ mountains/ or other place? Or is it a bench / range weapon/ or you live in the city. Barrel thickness can come into play here as part of the overall weight. 2. Is your range out in the forests, mountains, plains, desert etc? Or is it a traditional one? Is it 100 yard and less? Or are you able to stretch it out to 300 or 600 yards? 3. There is a massive amount of information for the new person on the AR15 platform. This board can be a great resource for much of that info. However, it is no substitute for real training, and there is also a good amount of less than credible info which gets spouted as gospel truth here. If you are here long enough, you will find guys with tens of thousands of posts who have been here for 5 or more years, who are suddenly looking for advise about what they should buy as their first AR15. These are the same people which were acting as experts over the years. Thankfully, there are some highly credible people here as well, with a wealth of technical as well as real world information. When you read through replies from people to your questions, don't be shy about asking what their background is, or why they are qualified to make the comments they do. You are spending a good chunk of money on an upper end weapon if you are looking at something even close to a MK12, make sure you get what you want. Don't let it turn into a disappointment. Good luck, and if you run into issues, email Lancelot who is a moderator here. He is squared away and can help you separate BS from legit info. |
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Wow, lots of good info! I have spoke to a couple other dealers that are steering me towards a 16 " barrel, partly I think because they have them in stock? I was given a price for a DDM4V7LW of $1390 OTD which didnt seem too bad.
Here is how this will be used.. 1) 90% Range I can park my vehicle right at the bench :) Prone/Standing/Bench between 50yds to 500yds 2) 10% mountains/hiking I do live in the city but I like to get out of it :) 3) I will be buying decent glass, not sure what I plan to go with yet but i'm not going to go bottom end.... recommendations? 4) I will not be using cheap ammo, maybe not top of the line but I do not plan on using steel casing unless I am planning on going through the rounds that day in close shooting 5) would like to have a nice trigger, I enjoy being accurate, I am not typically out at the range just to go through 1k rounds for the shit of it I am looking over some of the above suggestions/brands thanks for the help so far. |
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Wow, lots of good info! I have spoke to a couple other dealers that are steering me towards a 16 " barrel, partly I think because they have them in stock? I was given a price for a DDM4V7LW of $1390 OTD which didnt seem too bad. Here is how this will be used.. 1) 90% Range I can park my vehicle right at the bench :) Prone/Standing/Bench between 50yds to 500yds 2) 10% mountains/hiking I do live in the city but I like to get out of it :) 3) I will be buying decent glass, not sure what I plan to go with yet but i'm not going to go bottom end.... recommendations? 4) I will not be using cheap ammo, maybe not top of the line but I do not plan on using steel casing unless I am planning on going through the rounds that day in close shooting 5) would like to have a nice trigger, I enjoy being accurate, I am not typically out at the range just to go through 1k rounds for the shit of it I am looking over some of the above suggestions/brands thanks for the help so far. View Quote Great update! Most dealers will have more 16" AR15s in stock, mainly because that is what most people buy. There is nothing wrong with a 16" barrel, just like there is nothing wrong with an 18" barrel. Barrel profile will have a lot to do with how the weapon balances for you. Personally, I would be looking at a medium contour SS barrel if accuracy was high on my list of concerns. There isn't much reason to go with a fat pipe of a barrel if you are going to actually do things with it aside from plop it on a bench. You may find that when it comes to a trigger, that you will need to go aftermarket. Think about whether you want a single stage, or a two stage trigger. There are people who love each style. Something else to think about is having a custom build done, which would net you all teh features you like, and avoid you having to replace individual items like triggers. The DDM4V7LW is a nice carbine, but I would not confuse that with a precision model. The largest difference you are going to find is the barrels, which is why Molon (good guy and great source of legit info here) keeps showing you info on barrels. |
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Quoted: Wow, lots of good info! I have spoke to a couple other dealers that are steering me towards a 16 " barrel, partly I think because they have them in stock? I was given a price for a DDM4V7LW of $1390 OTD which didnt seem too bad. Here is how this will be used.. 1) 90% Range I can park my vehicle right at the bench :) Prone/Standing/Bench between 50yds to 500yds 2) 10% mountains/hiking I do live in the city but I like to get out of it :) 3) I will be buying decent glass, not sure what I plan to go with yet but i'm not going to go bottom end.... recommendations? 4) I will not be using cheap ammo, maybe not top of the line but I do not plan on using steel casing unless I am planning on going through the rounds that day in close shooting 5) would like to have a nice trigger, I enjoy being accurate, I am not typically out at the range just to go through 1k rounds for the shit of it I am looking over some of the above suggestions/brands thanks for the help so far. View Quote For optics Vortex makes some great glass at various price points. Check out the optics section for some more insight. If this is a precision oriented setup I'd recommend a stainless barrel. A 16" midlength would be a great starting point. Molon has pointed out some nice shooters above. For a 2 stage trigger look at the LaRue MBT. They have a longer delivery option at $125.It is a hell of a trigger at a great price. I can't live without a 2 stage trigger anymore. |
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Good information from Molon and Stickman.
I've got to give a shout out to White Oak Armament 16" SPR SS Match Barrel. This has been amazingly accurate for me. If you don't have the ability to put an upper together, you can get the barrel and the assembly done through ADCO. As others have said, don't cheap out on the optic if you want precision at distance. In fact I have more $ in my optic than I do in the AR that it's mounted on. |
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White Oak Armament sells complete 18" SPR uppers for under $650. If you want a great upper out-of-the-gate I suggest that one.
If you buy a LMT SOPMOD complete lower with their match trigger you'll have a great rifle for $1200. Add any scope and base you like and you'll be shooting very small groups in short order. I like Sierra Match King bullets because they seem to shoot great from everyone's barrels. Hornady and Nosler are very good also, with Hornady match bullets going on sale in bulk quantities on a regular basis at Widener's. |
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OK, after some additional research and discussion on here, I was offered a Daniel Defense DDM4V7 (NON LW) for $1300, seems like a good deal? I know a lot are going to say to build one, I am really at this point wanting to get a factory rifle and possibly build one later on after I am more familiar with them.
My Plan would be to get the DDM4V4, Drop a nice 2 stage trigger in and a good 3x9ish scope havent settled on magnification just yet. I haven't pulled the "trigger" yet but this seems like a pretty dang good deal for a DDM4V7 at $1300 OTD. I did order an additional Lower receiver for building in the future, so all this barrel discussion has been great and very eye opening! |
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For the little amout of hiking with it, I'm going to tell you to go with a 16in gun simply because ounces add up to pounds and pounds equal pain.
It is more than capable of being accurate with the right combination of barrel quality, ammunition it likes, good glass and some training behind the trigger. If you think 500 yards is "far" in the realm of an AR, understand that Marines used to qualify at 200, 300, and 500, with old and beat up M16s, less than fantastic M855 ball, and iron sights I do it still, although with an M4 (14.5in barrel) but it's practically cheating with an ACOG. |
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Yea the rifle I am looking at it 16", I moved past the 18" barrel based on some of the recommendations here and additional self thought. Here are the full details of what I am looking at for the $1300. Is the 1:7 twist an issue if I am shooting lighter weight ammo?
LOWER RECEIVER: Mil-Spec with Enhanced Flared Magazine Well and Rear Receiver QD Swivel Attachment Point. CNC Machined of 7075-T6 Aluminum, Type III Hard Coat Anodized UPPER RECEIVER: Mil-Spec with Indexing Marks and M4 Feed Ramps. CNC Machined of 7075-T6 Aluminum, Type III Hard Coat Anodized BARREL: Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel, Cold Hammer Forged, 1:7 twist, 16? Government Profile, Mid-length Gas System, Chrome Lined, MP tested, and Mil-Spec Heavy Phosphate Coated GAS SYSTEM: Pinned Low Profile Gas Block CNC Machined of 4140 hardened steel and Mil-Spec Heavy Phosphate Coating, Mid-length, Direct Impingement MUZZLE DEVICE: Daniel Defense Flash Suppressor, 17-4 PH Stainless Steel, Salt Bath Nitride Finished BOLT CARRIER GROUP: M16 Profile, Mil-Spec MP Tested, Chrome Lined, Properly Staked Gas Key BUFFER: H Buffer SIGHTS: Sold Separately HANDGUARD: Daniel Defense MFR XS 15.0, CNC Machined of 6061-T6 Aluminum, M-LOK Attachment, Type III Hard Coat Anodized RECEIVER EXTENSION: 6 Position Mil-Spec 7075-T6 Aluminum BUTTSTOCK: Daniel Defense Buttstock, Glass Filled Polymer with Soft Touch Overmolding PISTOL GRIP: Daniel Defense Pistol Grip, Glass Filled Polymer with Soft Touch Overmolding Made in the USA! |
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1:7 twist will work just fine with everything you can feed from a magazine, light or heavy.
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If after precision, I would not go with a chrome lined barrel.
Yes they may shoot. But a non-chrome lined choice may be better if precision is what you desire. Key question is what precision do you want from it? Hit steel silhouettes at distance, or more precision than that? Like was said before, silhouettes have been hit with open sights and chrome lined. Another option is go for a cheaper complete carbine. Then add an upper later setup for longer range. Two pins and swapped. Then you will find that upper turned into another rifle as you bought a lower. And on and on and on. BRD (black rifle disease) is real condition. Also as you mentioned, it's election year. I would buy up some complete or stripped lowers + lower parts kits. They are cheap right now. I went through this a few years ago in my state. I stocked up when it was really hard to with the prices being bonkers. |
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