Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page AR-15 » AR Discussions
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 7/22/2016 10:58:12 AM EDT

So I am looking at a decent long range AR up to 300yds maybe 500yds at most. I am really interested in the Daniel Defense MK12 SPR when my LGS tells me he likes Double D Armory better for accuracy. I do some research and the Double D doesn't get near the positive feedback that the Daniel Defense does. Feeling like the LGS is pushing the Double D because they are Local. Would like to hear some feedback on these two rifles and what other alternatives are out there that may be better? I will be using it almost solely for range shooting at least until SHTF :) New to the AR platform, still learning but picking up everything I can.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 11:07:05 AM EDT
[#1]
The Daniel Defense is an amazing gun It features a CHF stainless steel barrel, which is very unique and very very accurate. If your looking for an extremely accurate 5.56 I think it'd be a great choice. Resale value of the daniel defense would be quite high too, I've never heard of Doube D, may be a quality rifle, but DD is renowned for both quality and service if you ever need it.

All that being said if your after a Mk12 style clone, something emulating the military's Mk12, the Daniel Defense is not it. You could buy something like the complete Mk12 upper from ADCO and buy/build a lower for about the same price as the Daniel Defense, and have a more authentic style Mk12. That doesn't matter to some people, to other people with clone disease it's very important.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 11:20:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Are you simply looking for a factory precision oriented rifle or looking to build/buy a MK12 clone?



As mentioned above the Daniel Defense would be a nice factory rifle but is by no means a MK12.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 11:44:18 AM EDT
[#3]
DD needs to stop using MK12 name unless they are going to make a MK12 clone.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 11:44:43 AM EDT
[#4]
I am definitely not looking for a clone rifle, I am really just looking for a nice precision factory AR. With all of the crap that is going around I just want to get a factory built AR under my belt before I cant buy one anymore and work on building my own later down the road. I was looking at getting a lighter carbine style AR and a Ruger precision rifle but funds are a little scarce right now so I am planning on doing a dual purpose rifle like the above mentioned. I really appreciate the feedback so far, I did get approval from management (the wife) to make the purchase so no im trying to make sure I make the right one.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 3:21:39 PM EDT
[#5]
Sounds like you are looking more for a SPR type rifle, not a Mk12. You really want an AR with a 16" mid-length gas system barrel with either a 5.56 NATO or .223 Wylde chamber and a 1/8 or 1/7 twist. You would want a free-float handguard (12"-15") with the ability to attach a bipod. You also want a flat-top upper receiver. You need to consider a good 2-stage trigger or a light single-stage. In addition, you need to consider a stock option that is going to be comfortable for you and suit your needs.

LaRue Tactical has several options. http://www.larue.com/rifles?sort=popular

Daniel Defense has several options as well. https://danieldefense.com/firearms/mid-length.html

Rainier Arms also has several choices. https://www.rainierarms.com/complete-firearms-class-iii/rifles/ar-15-rifles/16-mid

Link Posted: 7/22/2016 3:31:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I am definitely not looking for a clone rifle, I am really just looking for a nice precision factory AR. With all of the crap that is going around I just want to get a factory built AR under my belt before I cant buy one anymore and work on building my own later down the road. I was looking at getting a lighter carbine style AR and a Ruger precision rifle but funds are a little scarce right now so I am planning on doing a dual purpose rifle like the above mentioned. I really appreciate the feedback so far, I did get approval from management (the wife) to make the purchase so no im trying to make sure I make the right one.
View Quote


For what you're saying, look towards a 16" barrel. Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, and just about everyone else offer a 16" SS barreled upper with a good free float rail. That'll get you past 500 with good ammo if you're up to the task, I and others have taken Ballistic Advantage's 16" to 750+ using factory 77gr stuff like CBC or IMI Razor Core.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 5:41:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
DD needs to stop using MK12 name unless they are going to make a MK12 clone.
View Quote


Yeah, because smart marketing to attract new customers to increase revenue for a successful company is a bad idea.........
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 6:56:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah, because smart marketing to attract new customers to increase revenue for a successful company is a bad idea.........
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
DD needs to stop using MK12 name unless they are going to make a MK12 clone.


Yeah, because smart marketing to attract new customers to increase revenue for a successful company is a bad idea.........



99% of AR owners have no idea what a MK12 is. DD then uses this MK12 name and people going around misusing the term because it says it on the upper receiver it must be a MK12. They should have called it DD SPR.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 6:59:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



99% of AR owners have no idea what a MK12 is. DD then uses this MK12 name and people going around misusing the term because it says it on the upper receiver it must be a MK12. They should have called it DD SPR.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
DD needs to stop using MK12 name unless they are going to make a MK12 clone.


Yeah, because smart marketing to attract new customers to increase revenue for a successful company is a bad idea.........



99% of AR owners have no idea what a MK12 is. DD then uses this MK12 name and people going around misusing the term because it says it on the upper receiver it must be a MK12. They should have called it DD SPR.


I think they can live with only annoying 1% of AR owners
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 7:24:47 PM EDT
[#10]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I think they can live with only annoying 1% of AR owners
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

DD needs to stop using MK12 name unless they are going to make a MK12 clone.




Yeah, because smart marketing to attract new customers to increase revenue for a successful company is a bad idea.........






99% of AR owners have no idea what a MK12 is. DD then uses this MK12 name and people going around misusing the term because it says it on the upper receiver it must be a MK12. They should have called it DD SPR.




I think they can live with only annoying 1% of AR owners
Yep, because 50% of that 1% have also owned (previously or currently) a RISII.



 
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 12:55:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Mk12 Mod Holland is what you seek....

Also, I won't flat out call your dealer a liar - but I'd have to see it to believe it regarding the DDA > DD in the accuracy department. Every DD I've ever owned has been very, very accurate.
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 1:30:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Precision Reflex International stills sells the original Mark 12 Mod 0.
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 2:49:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 3:23:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I am definitely not looking for a clone rifle, I am really just looking for a nice precision factory AR.

View Quote



This is more SDM-Rish due to the 20" barrel length, but the 10-shot group pictured below was fired from this AR-15 with a Krieger 20" DCM barrel.  You can find smiths that will build you an upper using this barrel.











....
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 4:26:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Wow, lots of good info! I have spoke to a couple other dealers that are steering me towards a 16 " barrel, partly I think because they have them in stock? I was given a price for a DDM4V7LW of $1390 OTD which didnt seem too bad.

Here is how this will be used..

1) 90% Range I can park my vehicle right at the bench :) Prone/Standing/Bench between 50yds to 500yds
2) 10% mountains/hiking I do live in the city but I like to get out of it :)
3) I will be buying decent glass, not sure what I plan to go with yet but i'm not going to go bottom end.... recommendations?
4) I will not be using cheap ammo, maybe not top of the line but I do not plan on using steel casing unless I am planning on going through the rounds that day in close shooting
5) would like to have a nice trigger, I enjoy being accurate, I am not typically out at the range just to go through 1k rounds for the shit of it

I am looking over some of the above suggestions/brands thanks for the help so far.
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 4:50:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Wow, lots of good info! I have spoke to a couple other dealers that are steering me towards a 16 " barrel,


View Quote




Krieger also produces 16" DCM profile barrels.










...


Another excellent choice in 16" barrels is the Noveske Recon barrel.












While evaluating the accuracy of various hand-loads from the Recon barrel, shooting from a bench-rest at a distance of 100 yards and using the Short Dot LE set at 4X magnification, the Recon barrel produced the 10-shot group pictured below using Sierra 55 grain BlitzKings. The group has an extreme spread of 0.77".












....

Link Posted: 7/23/2016 5:07:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 7:55:41 PM EDT
[#18]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Wow, lots of good info! I have spoke to a couple other dealers that are steering me towards a 16 " barrel, partly I think because they have them in stock? I was given a price for a DDM4V7LW of $1390 OTD which didnt seem too bad.



Here is how this will be used..



1) 90% Range I can park my vehicle right at the bench :) Prone/Standing/Bench between 50yds to 500yds

2) 10% mountains/hiking I do live in the city but I like to get out of it :)

3) I will be buying decent glass, not sure what I plan to go with yet but i'm not going to go bottom end.... recommendations?

4) I will not be using cheap ammo, maybe not top of the line but I do not plan on using steel casing unless I am planning on going through the rounds that day in close shooting

5) would like to have a nice trigger, I enjoy being accurate, I am not typically out at the range just to go through 1k rounds for the shit of it



I am looking over some of the above suggestions/brands thanks for the help so far.
View Quote




 
For optics Vortex makes some great glass at various price points. Check out the optics section for some more insight.

If this is a precision oriented setup I'd recommend a stainless barrel. A 16" midlength would be a great starting point. Molon has pointed out some nice shooters above.

For a 2 stage trigger look at the LaRue MBT. They have a longer delivery option at $125.It is a hell of a trigger at a great price. I can't live without a 2 stage trigger anymore.
Link Posted: 7/24/2016 6:16:41 AM EDT
[#19]
Good information from Molon and Stickman.

I've got to give a shout out to White Oak Armament 16" SPR SS Match Barrel.  This has been amazingly accurate for me.
If you don't have the ability to put an upper together, you can get the barrel and the assembly done through ADCO.

As others have said, don't cheap out on the optic if you want precision at distance.  In fact I have more $ in my optic than I do in the AR that it's mounted on.
Link Posted: 7/24/2016 4:03:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Here is another 16" precision barrel option.  Lilja's original Recon (Recce) barrel as profiled by Lilja as the OEM supplier to Navy Crane for SEAL use. 1:8 twist, Wylde chamber.





More accurate than I am able to shoot.  Here is a five shot load development group from bipod and rear bag at 100 yards.  I'd say it will do.



Link Posted: 7/24/2016 4:22:04 PM EDT
[#21]
White Oak Armament sells complete 18" SPR uppers for under $650. If you want a great upper out-of-the-gate I suggest that one.

If you buy a LMT SOPMOD complete lower with their match trigger you'll have a great rifle for $1200. Add any scope and base you like and you'll be shooting very small groups in short order.

I like Sierra Match King bullets because they seem to shoot great from everyone's barrels. Hornady and Nosler are very good also, with Hornady match bullets going on sale in bulk quantities on a regular basis at Widener's.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 7:16:33 PM EDT
[#22]
OK, after some additional research and discussion on here, I was offered a Daniel Defense DDM4V7 (NON LW) for $1300, seems like a good deal? I know a lot are going to say to build one, I am really at this point wanting to get a factory rifle and possibly build one later on after I am more familiar with them.

My Plan would be to get the DDM4V4, Drop a nice 2 stage trigger in and a good 3x9ish scope havent settled on magnification just yet.

I haven't pulled the "trigger" yet but this seems like a pretty dang good deal for a DDM4V7 at $1300 OTD.

I did order an additional Lower receiver for building in the future, so all this barrel discussion has been great and very eye opening!
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 7:48:11 PM EDT
[#23]
For the little amout of hiking with it, I'm going to tell you to go with a 16in gun simply because ounces add up to pounds and pounds equal pain.





It is more than capable of being accurate with the right combination of barrel quality, ammunition it likes, good glass and some training behind the trigger. If you think 500 yards is "far" in the realm of an AR, understand that Marines used to qualify at 200, 300, and 500, with old and beat up M16s, less than fantastic M855 ball, and iron sights


 



I do it still, although with an M4 (14.5in barrel) but it's practically cheating with an ACOG.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 8:19:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Yea the rifle I am looking at it 16", I moved past the 18" barrel based on some of the recommendations here and additional self thought. Here are the full details of what I am looking at for the $1300. Is the 1:7 twist an issue if I am shooting lighter weight ammo?

LOWER RECEIVER: Mil-Spec with Enhanced Flared Magazine Well and Rear Receiver QD Swivel Attachment Point. CNC Machined of 7075-T6 Aluminum, Type III Hard Coat Anodized
UPPER RECEIVER: Mil-Spec with Indexing Marks and M4 Feed Ramps. CNC Machined of 7075-T6 Aluminum, Type III Hard Coat Anodized
BARREL: Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel, Cold Hammer Forged, 1:7 twist, 16? Government Profile, Mid-length Gas System, Chrome Lined, MP tested, and Mil-Spec Heavy Phosphate Coated
GAS SYSTEM: Pinned Low Profile Gas Block CNC Machined of 4140 hardened steel and Mil-Spec Heavy Phosphate Coating, Mid-length, Direct Impingement
MUZZLE DEVICE: Daniel Defense Flash Suppressor, 17-4 PH Stainless Steel, Salt Bath Nitride Finished
BOLT CARRIER GROUP: M16 Profile, Mil-Spec MP Tested, Chrome Lined, Properly Staked Gas Key
BUFFER: H Buffer
SIGHTS: Sold Separately
HANDGUARD: Daniel Defense MFR XS 15.0, CNC Machined of 6061-T6 Aluminum, M-LOK Attachment, Type III Hard Coat Anodized
RECEIVER EXTENSION: 6 Position Mil-Spec 7075-T6 Aluminum
BUTTSTOCK: Daniel Defense Buttstock, Glass Filled Polymer with Soft Touch Overmolding
PISTOL GRIP: Daniel Defense Pistol Grip, Glass Filled Polymer with Soft Touch Overmolding
Made in the USA!
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 9:59:50 PM EDT
[#25]
1:7 twist will work just fine with everything you can feed from a magazine, light or heavy.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 10:39:51 PM EDT
[#26]
If after precision, I would not go with a chrome lined barrel.
Yes they may shoot. But a non-chrome lined choice may be better if precision is what you desire.
Key question is what precision do you want from it?
Hit steel silhouettes at distance, or more precision than that?
Like was said before, silhouettes have been hit with open sights and chrome lined.

Another option is go for a cheaper complete carbine. Then add an upper later setup for longer range.
Two pins and swapped.
Then you will find that upper turned into another rifle as you bought a lower. And on and on and on.
BRD (black rifle disease) is real condition.

Also as you mentioned, it's election year.
I would buy up some complete or stripped lowers + lower parts kits. They are cheap right now.
I went through this a few years ago in my state. I stocked up when it was really hard to with the prices being bonkers.
Page AR-15 » AR Discussions
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top